Tyson Bagent

[adam]

This dude threw for 159 TDs and 16,958 yards in college. Regardless of the school and competition, that is a TON of live reps.

No wonder he looks so comfortable in the pocket. Fields has all the tools needed to be a franchise QB, he just needs the live reps.
 

The one thing I notice about Fields, and maybe I am wrong, but it almost looks like he tries to be too calm in the pocket, almost like a forced calmness that slows him down too much. It seems deliberate, like he doesn't care about the rush barreling down on him. It doesn't seem to be slow recognition, but more like slow execution. Trust your eyes and let it rip. Am I crazy?

Also, I am totally fine with Bagent as the backup. If Fields gets hurt, the season is more than likely over anyway, so why not develop another QB just in case Fields becomes injury prone or never develops into a consistent passer?

 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, adam said:

Am I crazy?

I have seen the same thing. I think he’s been more accustomed to being a mobile QB.  Even in college he was moving around a lot.  That is one thing Bagent had on him, he’s more truly a pocket passer, or at least looks the part.  How his version interprets to true NFL speed remains to be seen.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I still think the risk that Fields will never process the field fast enough is real. Again - he doesn't need to process like an above average QB, given his pure athleticism and ability to run - but he has to be ability to process quick enough, etc.  Same issue Trubisky had - dude just couldn't see the field quick enough.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

5 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I have seen the same thing. I think he’s been more accustomed to being a mobile QB.  Even in college he was moving around a lot.  That is one thing Bagent had on him, he’s more truly a pocket passer, or at least looks the part.  How his version interprets to true NFL speed remains to be seen.  

I also noticed Bagent hasn't really thrown anything down the field.  

[BearFan PHX]

I looked at every Bagent highlight reel I could find, and I never saw a pass that traveled more than, say, 30 yards in the air. If you watch his throws on out routes, you can see there is an arc to the ball, not a straight line like some of the really strong arms in the NFL.

Bagent does have a very quick release, so some of that can be mitigated by making decisions faster, but NFL corners bait QBs and if the ball spends more time in the air, that means more interceptions in the NFL.

It would be exciting to see Bagent prove everyone wrong and have success. Id root for him just like I rooted for Doug Flutie - another mold breaker.

But I fear he is more like Shane Matthews - who looked similarly good at reading defenses until we all noticed that he was just throwing to the shortest route on every play, and the speed wasnt because he was processing, he just decided to throw to the shortest route before the snap every time. It's a good gambit for making a few million in the NFL, but once defenses catch on, you're cooked.

Now I dont think that Bagent is doing exactly that, but being a point guard with good ball distribution skills only gets you so far if you cant throw deep and keep that 8th man out of the box.

On paper, Bagent shouldnt make it. But then again, he shouldnt have made it this far either, and his college numbers are ridiculous. Id love to see him show us a new way that works.

Meanwhile, the effect of Bagent doing this on Fields should hopefully be extremely positive. If Fields can internalize some of Bagents skills, he will be a hell of a QB.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I also noticed Bagent hasn't really thrown anything down the field.  

I was watching a highlight reel of Justin Fields top 50 collegiate plays recently.  And although I didn't watch all 50 the first half or 2/3rds of what I saw was Fields throwing deep (30+ yards) several times over with really good accuracy.  In fact, hardly anything he did seemed to be intermediate or short.  There were a lot of plays where he took off and ran (several designed that way) but I think  a lot of the offense was set up for him to throw deep like he did.  Maybe that's why he's having a hard time processing his progressions?  He's not used to looking at the underneath routes as much.  With a player like Moore, its apparent he'll get a lot of the YAC that Fields is less familiar with?  

As BearFanPHX said, if Fields can get some of Bagent's patience in the pocket, he'll be solid. 

[BearFan PHX]

To be fair, i think it was Mongo calling into Waddle that said this first. Bagent's effect on Fields could be really good for him.

[Bears4Ever_34]

14 hours ago, adam said:

This dude threw for 159 TDs and 16,958 yards in college. Regardless of the school and competition, that is a TON of live reps.

No wonder he looks so comfortable in the pocket. Fields has all the tools needed to be a franchise QB, he just needs the live reps.
 

The one thing I notice about Fields, and maybe I am wrong, but it almost looks like he tries to be too calm in the pocket, almost like a forced calmness that slows him down too much. It seems deliberate, like he doesn't care about the rush barreling down on him. It doesn't seem to be slow recognition, but more like slow execution. Trust your eyes and let it rip. Am I crazy?

Also, I am totally fine with Bagent as the backup. If Fields gets hurt, the season is more than likely over anyway, so why not develop another QB just in case Fields becomes injury prone or never develops into a consistent passer?

 

 

100% right on Fields. He has no sense of urgency in the pocket. One of my biggest pet peeves is watching him move at a snails pace to get the ball out to a receiver on a quick screen pass. I don't know what that is, because at least there you can't even chalk that up to slow processing because there is nothing to process. You're just supposed to snap and throw it as quickly as possible, and he doesn't even do that well.

The theory that I mostly agree with on OSU quarterbacks is that they have so much more talent than everyone else in the BIG10 that their internal clocks aren't properly calibrated to handle NFL speed, because they very rarely ever face any real pressure from opposing teams, and when they do, there's almost always a couple of 1st round talents at WR you can always throw the ball to, because they're usually running wide open down the field somewhere.

I was cautiously optimistic about his future before training camp, but the reports I've seen out of camp haven't been all that encouraging on the offensive side of things with errant throws, interceptions (18 of them, according to Josh Shrock), and really bad OL play. DJ Moore has been terrific, though, and I think because of that, you have to feel at least a little better about the kinds of things the offense can do this year. Week 1 can't get here soon enough.

[Bears4Ever_34]

It's a small sample size, for sure, but I like the skill set Bagent seems to have. His footwork on all the rhythm and timing throws is fantastic, and he throws it with some nice touch. I also love his ability to sense pressure and climb the pocket. The athleticism is not elite, by any means, but it is more than adequate enough to survive at this level.

He had a bad interception in the last game, but listening to him talk about it makes me feel even more confident about his development. I'm glad the Bears recognized their mistake in signing PJ Walker in order to keep this young kid around a little longer. I know you have to take his DII stats with a grain of salt, but you can't ignore the experience. There's something to be said about a guy who started 4 years in college, regardless of the competition. I think it's reflective in how he carries himself on the field. The poise was evident right away. 

He's got a lot to learn, but I'm excited to see how this whole thing pans out.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

18 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I was watching a highlight reel of Justin Fields top 50 collegiate plays recently.  And although I didn't watch all 50 the first half or 2/3rds of what I saw was Fields throwing deep (30+ yards) several times over with really good accuracy.  In fact, hardly anything he did seemed to be intermediate or short.  There were a lot of plays where he took off and ran (several designed that way) but I think  a lot of the offense was set up for him to throw deep like he did.  Maybe that's why he's having a hard time processing his progressions?  He's not used to looking at the underneath routes as much.  With a player like Moore, its apparent he'll get a lot of the YAC that Fields is less familiar with?  

As BearFanPHX said, if Fields can get some of Bagent's patience in the pocket, he'll be solid. 

If Fields could throw the quick ones like Bagent - he would be an all time great. That isn't to say Bagent is great at the quick ones, but very clear he can process the short stuff quick.  Fields is a monster down the field and has the arm talent and obviously physical talent. He also works hard and mentally is strong - but I think he's spent his whole career going big whale hunting and in the NFL you are going to get killed doing it. The %'s just aren't as good as they are at lower levels where you have more spacing, can complete at higher percentages, etc. 

He has to be able to get the check-downs and do the short and intermediate throws that open up the deep ball. He doesn't have to do it awesome, but being average is probably good enough with his other skill sets. I do think if he can do that - its one of those things that 3-4 years later, you'll see he will actually continue to improve at that, just as he's seen so much more from the NFL - but the only way he gets that chance is if he can be decent enough now. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

14 hours ago, Bears4Ever_34 said:

It's a small sample size, for sure, but I like the skill set Bagent seems to have. His footwork on all the rhythm and timing throws is fantastic, and he throws it with some nice touch. I also love his ability to sense pressure and climb the pocket. The athleticism is not elite, by any means, but it is more than adequate enough to survive at this level.

He had a bad interception in the last game, but listening to him talk about it makes me feel even more confident about his development. I'm glad the Bears recognized their mistake in signing PJ Walker in order to keep this young kid around a little longer. I know you have to take his DII stats with a grain of salt, but you can't ignore the experience. There's something to be said about a guy who started 4 years in college, regardless of the competition. I think it's reflective in how he carries himself on the field. The poise was evident right away. 

He's got a lot to learn, but I'm excited to see how this whole thing pans out.

Agree with everything you said - re: Bagent and also re: Fields, especially regarding OSU and the level of talent surrounding them and the type of habits it created.  Those are not going to be easy to break and it takes time.  

[Mongo3451]

I heard this morning, on the Kap and Hoody show, that Fields has not made any progress on getting the ball out of his hands quickly.  Kap's sources tell him that Fields has not had a good camp.  In the meantime, we aren't hearing anything to refute it from the brass.  More to come...

[BearFan PHX]

I guess we waived Peterman today. So Bagent is officially QB2 now.

Fields better wake up, or we're gonna be looking at QBs in the 2024 draft.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

I heard this morning, on the Kap and Hoody show, that Fields has not made any progress on getting the ball out of his hands.      we aren't hearing anything to refute it from the brass.  More to come...

I can’t agree with that at all.   They held him out of the Indy game because practice went well.  Against Buffalo he got maybe 10 plays.  Those aren’t actions of a team wanting a guy to improve via more reps.  In the first game he only threw short passes.  
 

Of course there is still room for improvement but to say he’s been horrible all camp doesn’t fit the mountain of evidence.   This take feels like journalist who need clicks and fell in love with the dink and dunk passing  game of the backup QB.  That dink and dink stuff looks good until you get behind the sticks and need a big play.  

[BearFan PHX]

3 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I can’t agree with that at all.   They held him out of the Indy game because practice went well.  Against Buffalo he got maybe 10 plays.  Those aren’t actions of a team wanting a guy to improve via more reps.  In the first game he only threw short passes.  
 

Of course there is still room for improvement but to say he’s been horrible all camp doesn’t fit the mountain of evidence.   This take feels like journalist who need clicks and fell in love with the dink and dunk passing  game of the backup QB.  That dink and dink stuff looks good until you get behind the sticks and need a big play.  

I totally agree that Bagent isnt a long term starting NFL QB unless or until we see a deep ball from him.

Fields' level of competency has been inconsistent for sure, but there is no QB controversy between the two, youre totally right.

But at the same time, we havent seen that calm pocket tempo making good fast reads with good mechanics. It is fair to say that Fields has the 2023 season to grow and take the job going forward, but i also think it's fair to say that Fields has not yet assured himself a new contract with this team, given that we have two first round picks in our pocket for 2024.

It's all on Fields this year to grow and take his destiny - but we already all knew that back in February.

There is nothing new here, youre right, and the season begins in 12 days, thats when more answers will come.

[AZ54]

1 minute ago, BearFan PHX said:

I totally agree that Bagent isnt a long term starting NFL QB unless or until we see a deep ball from him.

Fields' level of competency has been inconsistent for sure, but there is no QB controversy between the two, youre totally right.

But at the same time, we havent seen that calm pocket tempo making good fast reads with good mechanics. It is fair to say that Fields has the 2023 season to grow and take the job going forward, but i also think it's fair to say that Fields has not yet assured himself a new contract with this team, given that we have two first round picks in our pocket for 2024.

It's all on Fields this year to grow and take his destiny - but we already all knew that back in February.

There is nothing new here, youre right, and the season begins in 12 days, thats when more answers will come.

We agree  to agree ?

[CrackerDog]

12 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I can’t agree with that at all.   They held him out of the Indy game because practice went well.  Against Buffalo he got maybe 10 plays.  Those aren’t actions of a team wanting a guy to improve via more reps.  In the first game he only threw short passes.  
 

Of course there is still room for improvement but to say he’s been horrible all camp doesn’t fit the mountain of evidence.   This take feels like journalist who need clicks and fell in love with the dink and dunk passing  game of the backup QB.  That dink and dink stuff looks good until you get behind the sticks and need a big play.  

I assume nobody here saw every practice so we’re going on what we saw on the field.  And frankly, while a very small sample, I was happy with what I saw and have hope. Too much negativity here regarding a guy who is so damn fun to watch play the game.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

26 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Against Buffalo he got maybe 10 plays.

Somewhere else I saw someone mention that on the last throw he made (a screen pass I believe) he got hit pretty hard by an advancing DL-man. He was pulled immediately after that play and Bagent finished the drive.  Still to your point, if they needed to see more he would've been back out there afterwards.  

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

We agree  to agree ?

LOL

[Mongo3451]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

5 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

 

I can’t agree with that at all.   They held him out of the Indy game because practice went well.  Against Buffalo he got maybe 10 plays.  Those aren’t actions of a team wanting a guy to improve via more reps.  In the first game he only threw short passes.  

Kap's sources come from trusted sources within Halas Hall.  Another point to consider is that Kap works for the official station of the Bears now.  Why would he jeopardize his longstanding reputation with the organization when his bosses just landed the team?  FWIW, Jurko stated how much the team loves Justin and that they have full confidence in him. He went on to compare him to Lamar Jackson, in the sense that Justin is similar in needing to develop his passing skills, yet Jackson is beloved by his teammates for the same leadership skills.

Kap doesn't need the clicks, as he is already the big dog in town.  In characterizing his comments, you amped it up by choosing the word "horrible" when he never said anything close to that.  No need to pour gasoline on the rumor.

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Kap's sources come from trusted sources within Halas Hall.  Another point to consider is that Kap works for the official station of the Bears now.  Why would he jeopardize his longstanding reputation with the organization when his bosses just landed the team?  FWIW, Jurko stated how much the team loves Justin and that they have full confidence in him. He went on to compare him to Lamar Jackson, in the sense that Justin is similar in needing to develop his passing skills, yet Jackson is beloved by his teammates for the same leadership skills.

Kap doesn't need the clicks, as he is already the big dog in town.  In characterizing his comments, you amped it up by choosing the word "horrible" when he never said anything close to that.  No need to pour gasoline on the rumor.

You're right he didn't say horrible .... but the quote was:   "Fields has not made any progress on getting the ball out of his hands"

That's a pretty damning statement from an entire offseason working in the second year he's been in the system.   That much practice with a better WR corps and better Oline and no progress at all is, IMHO, horrible.    

[lemonej]

Mongo you are listening to rumors from radio personalities and making a comment based on those rumors. I've recorded and re watched all the preseason games and Kap has proven over the years that some of his Halas Hall sources are inaccurate.

When we see Fields in live action vs the packers we will know if his sources are true or not.

[Mongo3451]

10 hours ago, AZ54 said:

You're right he didn't say horrible .... but the quote was:   "Fields has not made any progress on getting the ball out of his hands"

That's a pretty damning statement from an entire offseason working in the second year he's been in the system.   That much practice with a better WR corps and better Oline and no progress at all is, IMHO, horrible.    

Fair enough.

[Mongo3451]

4 hours ago, lemonej said:

Mongo you are listening to rumors from radio personalities and making a comment based on those rumors. I've recorded and re watched all the preseason games and Kap has proven over the years that some of his Halas Hall sources are inaccurate.

When we see Fields in live action vs the packers we will know if his sources are true or not.

You're right.  FWIW, it's not my opinion.  I trust the coaches to assess. (Until I don't)

[AZ54]

Can one of the mods update the title of this thread to Tyson Bagent?  I get names wrong all the time, I just want to give the rookie his due.