Fields-O-Meter

[adam]

5 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

No running quarterback has ever won a Superbowl.  What you illustrated completely supports why they are trying to force Justin to be able to work the entire field through the pocket.  That's what opens the field for everything.

and either way gets hurt like today, from the pocket. He is taking way too many hits. 

[Mongo3451]

43 minutes ago, adam said:

and either way gets hurt like today, from the pocket. He is taking way too many hits. 

Taking too many hits is on him.  What's crazy was seeing the exact same thing from Caleb Williams yesterday.  Both are great throwers with time.  Just the opposite under pressure.  Fields is going to see loaded boxes until he beats it.  Good QB's salivate when safeties step in to the party.

[adam]

9 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Taking too many hits is on him.  What's crazy was seeing the exact same thing from Caleb Williams yesterday.  Both are great throwers with time.  Just the opposite under pressure.  Fields is going to see loaded boxes until he beats it.  Good QB's salivate when safeties step in to the party.

Williams did struggle, but he definitely throws way more anticipatory throws than Fields ever has. What will be interesting to see how Williams plays for the remainder of the year. His supporting cast is not that good.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

19 minutes ago, adam said:

Williams did struggle, but he definitely throws way more anticipatory throws than Fields ever has. What will be interesting to see how Williams plays for the remainder of the year. His supporting cast is not that good.

He also commands the huddle so well.  His oline stinks, so playing these better teams will be a tale on how he looks against NFL talent

[Bears4Ever_34]

Brutal game by Fields today, taking too much time to get rid of the ball for how often MIN was blitzing. I have a very hard time believing receivers weren't open today.

The more he plays, the more convinced I am that he's just never going to be special. You can't tell me the Houston Texans are a more talented team than the Bears are right now, and yet, look at how their quarterback is playing. He's throwing guys open with 4 of his 5 OL out of the lineup, winning games against good teams.

If you need everything to be perfect in order to perform your job well, chances are, you're not very special, and I think that's where we are right now with Fields. He's the least clutch quarterback I think I've ever seen, and I don't think the anticipatory throws are ever going to be a thing for him, which dramatically limits his ceiling as a player.

If he misses extended time with his injury, I don't know how anyone in their right minds could feel comfortable giving him a massive extension. He's missed games every year of his career and doesn't have the numbers to justify the extension anyways. 

[BearFan PHX]

Nothing is ever perfect in the NFL, but some QBs manage to win anyway. Its easier with more protection and WRs, but you could see that Bagent with the same situation, was able to get the ball out much more quickly - proving it can be done.

Im not saying Bagent is the answer. hes just a kid and I havent seen anywhere near enough. Same with Williams, I know what I read, but i havent seen enough. All i know is that Fields has been in the NFL for a few seasons now, and is still slow on his read.

Dexter, for example, is faster off the ball every week. Hes improving. Fields is not processing faster. Bagent was a great example of what a difference it can make. On one play, Moore came out of his break and the ball was already right there on anticipation. Fields would still be watching him come out of his break to decide if he was open or not.

[adam]

15 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

He also commands the huddle so well.  His oline stinks, so playing these better teams will be a tale on how he looks against NFL talent

If he doesn't rebound, or struggles again against better opponents, we have our answer about him as well.

The crazy thing is if you watched Mahomes in college, there is no way you would project him to do what he is doing in the NFL. He had a ton of yards, but his teams always lost. He was 13-19 in college and was pretty inconsistent. He threw for 734 yds in a game against Oklahoma to then follow that up with 206 against Texas Christian. Texas Tech didn't even play in a bowl game his junior year. 

For College QBR, in 2016, Mahomes was 7th, behind Mayfield, Flowers, Darnold, Jackson, Watson, and Trubisky, and a few players after him were Nathan Peterman and Josh Dobbs. 6 out of the top 7 QBs have started significant games in the NFL. How can you deduce that the 7th one is going to turn out to be arguably the best of all-time?

In 2020, Mac Jones was near perfect with the highest QBR, followed by Fields, Corral, Wilson, and Trask. Lawrence was 8th, Ridder was 12th, DTR was 13th, Howell was 14th, Purdy was 16th, and Willis was 17th. Of the top 17 players for college QBR from 2020, every player that has left college has been on an NFL team. That seem fairly impressive for players to make the jump, but Purdy i

Stroud was #1 in 2021 and 3rd in 2022.

This year for QBR, it's McCarthy, Penix, Gabriel, Daniels (LSU), and Weigman,

[adam]

The fall of Mac Jones has been odd. His rookie year, he put up 3801 yds, 67.6% comp, 7.3 Y/A, and 22 TDs, for a 92.5 Rating. Those numbers dipped to 2997 yds, 65.2%, 6.8 Y/A, 14 TDs, and a 84.8 rating in 14 games, to now 1208 yds, 64.3%, 6.0 Y/A and a 74.4 Rating in 6 games this year. 

His per game yard average has dropped year over year: 223, 214, 201, TDs are down and INTs are up. 

I am really surprised that Bill stuck with him this long.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

10 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Fields is not processing faster. Bagent was a great example of what a difference it can make. On one play, Moore came out of his break and the ball was already right there on anticipation. Fields would still be watching him come out of his break to decide if he was open or not.

I’m still ready to throw in the towel yet.  For me it’s hard to go from how the offense looked for the first two games then followed up with the two game performance Justin showed us against Denver and Washington.  To me yesterday was more about a potential concussion that may have slowed his reflexes . A few here observed even in the designed run plays he looked sluggish. 
 

This kid was setting franchise and NFL records even this year yet somehow we’re convinced we need to throw out the baby with the bath water . There’s no doubt Justin’s struggled at certain times but so has the oline (missing starters) and defense (playing with third stringers).  And then there’s the ever present “three WR sceens in a row” Getsy.  I’m not on board with Williams being the savior either.  He showed what he’s like playing against ranked teams this last weekend.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, adam said:

The fall of Mac Jones has been odd. His rookie year, he put up 3801 yds, 67.6% comp, 7.3 Y/A, and 22 TDs, for a 92.5 Rating. Those numbers dipped to 2997 yds, 65.2%, 6.8 Y/A, 14 TDs, and a 84.8 rating in 14 games, to now 1208 yds, 64.3%, 6.0 Y/A and a 74.4 Rating in 6 games this year. 

His per game yard average has dropped year over year: 223, 214, 201, TDs are down and INTs are up. 

I am really surprised that Bill stuck with him this long.

No matter how well a college QB does its hard to translate to the NFL. Its traits, good coaches, the right situation , many variables that go into the answer. A new coach will have a say in the next draft, what if he wants to keep Justin with an up and down rest of the year?  or we draft a QB and doesnt think he should start his fist year? So many things to play out, just t early to figure it out now.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:39 AM, Mongo3451 said:

No running quarterback has ever won a Superbowl

Wasn’t Steve Young considered one of the first QBs to run a lot?  And I’d think Mahomes is considered mobile.  ??‍♂️

[Mongo3451]

37 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Wasn’t Steve Young considered one of the first QBs to run a lot?  And I’d think Mahomes is considered mobile.  ??‍♂️

No, he was a pocket passer with wheels.  Very different.  Same with Mahomes, if you consider a 4.8 forty as fast.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

21 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

No, he was a pocket passer with wheels.  Very different.  Same with Mahomes, if you consider a 4.8 forty as fast.

Hmm… ok.  Mahomes currently leads QB in total rushing yards and this article even notes his 4.8 speed.  And some would say Montana was a true pocket passer, Young not so much. But maybe tomato, tomahto.  ??‍♂️

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffedotin/2023/10/03/the-kansas-city-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-is-running-more-than-ever/amp/

[adam]

4 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Hmm… ok.  Mahomes currently leads QB in total rushing yards and this article even notes his 4.8 speed.  And some would say Montana was a true pocket passer, Young not so much. But maybe tomato, tomahto.  ??‍♂️

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffedotin/2023/10/03/the-kansas-city-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-is-running-more-than-ever/amp/

Mahomes has 185 yards rushing, Fields has 237? Hurts has 257. Lamar has 327. 

Does Fields look off running this year? Last year he had an extra gear and some juice. This year he is running right into defenders, and is getting caught from behind. He just seems different when he is running. His longest run is 20 yards. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

42 minutes ago, adam said:

Mahomes has 185 yards rushing, Fields has 237? Hurts has 257. Lamar has 327. 

The date of the attached article (03 Oct) stated Mahomes was second only to Jackson and Daniel Jones with his 154. Either Jackson and Jones had exactly the same stats at the time or Forbes is REALLY bad at doing NFL articles.

44 minutes ago, adam said:

Does Fields look off running this year? Last year he had an extra gear and some juice. This year he is running right into defenders, and is getting caught from behind. He just seems different when he is running. His longest run is 20 yards. 

Agreed.  Although after yesterday he really looked lost and lethargic.  When I saw someone point out the possible concussion during the game, it made some sense.

[Mongo3451]

My Fields-ometer has pegged.  If he doesn't play another down for the Bears this year, he is gone.  My hope is that they sit him a few games to make sure he completely is healed.  That way, he has the best chance to make a case for himself.  At this point, I don't see him making the simple throws necessary to succeed.

On a side note:  Ben Johnson looks like a stud candidate to shepherd our new QB.  I've been reading articles and statements from other coaches around the league.  Some say they would hire him to be on the offensive or defensive staff, because he is simply brilliant and different.

[adam]

On 10/16/2023 at 5:27 PM, Alaskan Grizzly said:

The date of the attached article (03 Oct) stated Mahomes was second only to Jackson and Daniel Jones with his 154. Either Jackson and Jones had exactly the same stats at the time or Forbes is REALLY bad at doing NFL articles.

Agreed.  Although after yesterday he really looked lost and lethargic.  When I saw someone point out the possible concussion during the game, it made some sense.

Helmet to helmet then hand pushes Fields helmet into the ground. How is that not called?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Some rumblings Fields played his last game as a bear. Hoping this isn’t true cause he showed enough flashes that I wanted to see whether we saw real progress over remainder of season. 
 

I still say - if Fields missed year, draft a qb but make that guy win the job from Fields. Don’t just hand it to the new guy - let him sit, learn and compete for the job. See what Fields does and than see if you can turn it into a Brees / Rivers situation. 

[adam]

7 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Some rumblings Fields played his last game as a bear. Hoping this isn’t true cause he showed enough flashes that I wanted to see whether we saw real progress over remainder of season. 
 

I still say - if Fields missed year, draft a qb but make that guy win the job from Fields. Don’t just hand it to the new guy - let him sit, learn and compete for the job. See what Fields does and than see if you can turn it into a Brees / Rivers situation. 

It does make sense, and it doesn't hurt to sit him. The 5th year option would be the interesting decision if they decided to keep Fields. Do they want to commit to a 5th year (for trade purposes), because if not, he would almost assuredly be moved by the deadline. 

One consideration in any trade talk, just due to QB salaries, the Bears would more than likely get a 3rd round comp pick for Fields if he left via FA. So I believe the talks start there and go up. My hope was at least a 2nd to recoup the Claypool trade.

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, adam said:

It does make sense, and it doesn't hurt to sit him. The 5th year option would be the interesting decision if they decided to keep Fields. Do they want to commit to a 5th year (for trade purposes), because if not, he would almost assuredly be moved by the deadline. 

One consideration in any trade talk, just due to QB salaries, the Bears would more than likely get a 3rd round comp pick for Fields if he left via FA. So I believe the talks start there and go up. My hope was at least a 2nd to recoup the Claypool trade.

Its a catch 22 situation, if he balls out his trade value goes up but also the chance we keep him. 

[AZ54]

For those thinking of best case scenario for the Bears it's this:  Bagent show's he's a legit starter.   

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2023/10/18/23921311/a-scouts-take-what-the-chicago-bears-need-to-see-from-tyson-bagent-justin-fields-nfl-draft

We can then trade Fields in the offseason.  He'll garner at least a 3rd Rd pick, maybe as high as a 2nd Rd.  

Trade back from Carolina's 1st overall pick for another king's ransom.  

We then have 2 more seasons with Bagent on a cheap deal, if we choose. 

 https://overthecap.com/player/tyson-bagent/11238

Do I think this is likely?  My history as a Bears fan says not in the least.  Coming off the best defensive performance of the season it does make things more interesting.  

 

[Stinger226]

Poles has 3 options:  Bagent if he shows he can play

                                     Fields with a 6 mil pay next year

                                      Draft a rookie that has a cheap deal for 4 years

If Bagent balls out and Fields plays well for X number of games then what gives us the best chance to win next year? Keeping them both next year may be the answer. That also will mean we will  win some more games this season and  have a lower pick in the draft. Draft a pass rusher and OT , or Harrison? If we trade the first pick,  he will have 2 more high picks in two years.

In Poles third yr pressure will be on him to win. What's his best choice?

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

5 hours ago, adam said:

It does make sense, and it doesn't hurt to sit him. The 5th year option would be the interesting decision if they decided to keep Fields. Do they want to commit to a 5th year (for trade purposes), because if not, he would almost assuredly be moved by the deadline. 

One consideration in any trade talk, just due to QB salaries, the Bears would more than likely get a 3rd round comp pick for Fields if he left via FA. So I believe the talks start there and go up. My hope was at least a 2nd to recoup the Claypool trade.

I thought about the 5th year option before to give the bears time to build trade value into the 2024 season.  The 4th year option will cost around 41 million for just 2025.  Not seeing value their to gain a 1st or 2nd round pick 

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Poles has 3 options:  Bagent if he shows he can play

                                     Fields with a 6 mil pay next year

                                      Draft a rookie that has a cheap deal for 4 years

If Bagent balls out and Fields plays well for X number of games then what gives us the best chance to win next year? Keeping them both next year may be the answer. That also will mean we will  win some more games this season and  have a lower pick in the draft. Draft a pass rusher and OT , or Harrison? If we trade the first pick,  he will have 2 more high picks in two years.

In Poles third yr pressure will be on him to win. What's his best choice?

 

Right now I'd guess he hedges his bet with 2 QB options.   I don't know if that's Fields/Bagent    Fields/Williams or Maye.   or Bagent/Williams or Maye.    

[Stinger226]

54 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I thought about the 5th year option before to give the bears time to build trade value into the 2024 season.  The 4th year option will cost around 41 million for just 2025.  Not seeing value their to gain a 1st or 2nd round pick 

If he doesnt pick the 5th year option, Fields cost 6 mil next year. If he takes the option, that could turn out to be the same situation that Ravens went thru with a similar QB.