Fields-O-Meter

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Just now, Stinger226 said:

Is there somewhere I said Justin was better? I don't recall that statement.

Wasn’t arguing - more stating - Love isn’t tier 1 and Fields is worse. Why we would build around Justin when we have multiple assets to improve the position puzzles me (not saying you are saying that - just my 2 cents). 
 

I personally am still in the camp - if we go with a new qb, we need to bring in a new coach. Unless they go sign Cousins or something like that. Oh and I’m not saying the qb has to be at 1-1, maybe they do it at 1-3 or wherever. And I’m still fine with drafting an early one and sticking with Fields and making them earn it (probably better for that to be a 2nd rounder though if they go that route). 

[Stinger226]

1 minute ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Wasn’t arguing - more stating - Love isn’t tier 1 and Fields is worse. Why we would build around Justin when we have multiple assets to improve the position puzzles me (not saying you are saying that - just my 2 cents). 
 

I personally am still in the camp - if we go with a new qb, we need to bring in a new coach. Unless they go sign Cousins or something like that. Oh and I’m not saying the qb has to be at 1-1, maybe they do it at 1-3 or wherever. And I’m still fine with drafting an early one and sticking with Fields and making them earn it (probably better for that to be a 2nd rounder though if they go that route). 

I agree with that. I trust Poles knows what he's doing.

[ChileBear]

33 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I agree with that. I trust Poles knows what he's doing.

As do I. Poles is going to get this right.

[Pixote]

No way would I trade Fields for less than a mid to high 2nd. Keep him, play him while a drafted QB gets his feet under him carrying a clip board on the sidelines. Hopefully he can increase his value going forward. But I'm tired of the Bears practically giving away players and seeming to never get a good return. Just my opinion.

As far as today, it proved to me one thing. We need the draft and free agency to improve that OL. Yes, I know some of the sacks in the past were on Fields but come on. The number of sacks over the last three years is alarming. It's a wonder he isn't suffering from PTSD. Today he was sacked 5 times and pressured constantly. GB players where in his face the entire game.

I can understand everyone being down on the guy. But it was brutal. He was lucky to be able to walk to the locker room without assistance. Even the refs didn't help with another no-call on a blatant personal foul. The league needs to cleanup the quality of the refs.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

He can’t read defenses. Anyone that runs a zone heavy scheme clobbers him. And he looked awful and slow yet again. 

yup.

[jason]

I still don’t think Fields is the primary problem. Coaching is horrendous. And the OL never let him get comfortable. Maybe once or twice all game he got to make a 5 or 7 step drop and work progressions.

 

[jason]

36 minutes ago, Pixote said:

No way would I trade Fields for less than a mid to high 2nd. Keep him, play him while a drafted QB gets his feet under him carrying a clip board on the sidelines. Hopefully he can increase his value going forward. But I'm tired of the Bears practically giving away players and seeming to never get a good return. Just my opinion.

As far as today, it proved to me one thing. We need the draft and free agency to improve that OL. Yes, I know some of the sacks in the past were on Fields but come on. The number of sacks over the last three years is alarming. It's a wonder he isn't suffering from PTSD. Today he was sacked 5 times and pressured constantly. GB players where in his face the entire game.

I can understand everyone being down on the guy. But it was brutal. He was lucky to be able to walk to the locker room without assistance. Even the refs didn't help with another no-call on a blatant personal foul. The league needs to cleanup the quality of the refs.

Preach. Same thing that ruined Cutler. Even a tough guy in the NFL starts to hear alarms more and more quickly when constantly hammered or pushed by dudes the size of gorillas. Confidence goes away. Failing confidence is then the anchor on the footwork boat. After that it’s just a matter of self-preservation.

[jason]

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Wasn’t arguing - more stating - Love isn’t tier 1 and Fields is worse. Why we would build around Justin when we have multiple assets to improve the position puzzles me (not saying you are saying that - just my 2 cents). 
 

I personally am still in the camp - if we go with a new qb, we need to bring in a new coach. Unless they go sign Cousins or something like that. Oh and I’m not saying the qb has to be at 1-1, maybe they do it at 1-3 or wherever. And I’m still fine with drafting an early one and sticking with Fields and making them earn it (probably better for that to be a 2nd rounder though if they go that route). 

Correct. Love is not tier 1. But look how dangerous even a second tier qb can be in the NFL when given a ton of time to throw. They don’t get to the NFL on looks. Give any of them enough time and they light up defenses.

[dawhizz]

https://x.com/byryanwood/status/1744187277549453491?s=46&t=cLrE-3h2uw3rACxhQZYEvg

[BearFan PHX]

41 minutes ago, dawhizz said:

https://x.com/byryanwood/status/1744187277549453491?s=46&t=cLrE-3h2uw3rACxhQZYEvg

its crazy. you talk about a professional opinion about Fields, the Packers made it the cornerstone of their strategy today. So the Packers coaching staff not only has that opinion, they actually bet their own butts on it. It's authentic.

[Daventry]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

You may be right, but someone will think they know how to use Fields better than the great Getsy. They will not base their opinion of Fields on one game. Smart people know the play calling sucks and Fields is under pressure at a high rate. They will take a chance.

Smart people review Fields stats for the last three years and conclude the obvious.

[BearFan PHX]

2 minutes ago, Daventry said:

Smart people review Fields stats for the last three years and conclude the obvious.

i agree, the whole league already has a book on how to beat him, why would they pay big for him?

[adam]

Closing the book on Season 3, this is where Fields ranks as a passer (All-Time), in 53 qualifying QBs with 38 or more starts in their first 3 seasons:

Passing yards - 3rd lowest (6,674)
Completions - 7th lowest (578)
Attempts - 3rd lowest (958)
TD Passes - 10th lowest (40)
Sacks - 4th lowest (135)
Wins - 2nd lowest (10)
4QC - T-last (2)
GWD - 2nd lowest (3)

Since 2000, 33 QBs fit this criteria:
Passing yards - Last (next closest, Leftwich +1,209 yds)
Completions - Last
Attempts - Last
TD Passes - 2nd to last (David Carr)
Sacks - 4th to last
Wins - Last
4QC - T-last
GWD - 2nd to last (3)
 

QBR 56.3 in 2022 > 46.2 in 2023 (-10.1)

QB Rating 85.2 in 2022 > 86.3 in 2023 (+00.9)
 

From 2022, in the same system, with an improved O-Line, a true WR1, playing the last place schedule, Fields numbers should have been better by default, even if he didn't improve. They weren't. There is really no debate on this. 

In my opinion, Fields has plateaued, just like in the GB game, teams that fill the escape lanes make him one-dimensional, taking away his greatest strength. What is left is a subpar passer capable of occasional highlight reel plays. The inconsistency week to week shows that you can't win on the broken plays every week, because they won't always be there. 

At this point, Poles has to figure out if he can make the team around Fields good enough to compensate for the QB position, or replace Fields and saying the QB position is what is holding this team back from success. 

[Stinger226]

8 hours ago, Daventry said:

Smart people review Fields stats for the last three years and conclude the obvious.

By all the QB decisions we have seen over the last few years, apparently not a lot of smart people in the NFL.

[Stinger226]

21 minutes ago, adam said:

Closing the book on Season 3, this is where Fields ranks as a passer (All-Time), in 53 qualifying QBs with 38 or more starts in their first 3 seasons:

Passing yards - 3rd lowest (6,674)
Completions - 7th lowest (578)
Attempts - 3rd lowest (958)
TD Passes - 10th lowest (40)
Sacks - 4th lowest (135)
Wins - 2nd lowest (10)
4QC - T-last (2)
GWD - 2nd lowest (3)

Since 2000, 33 QBs fit this criteria:
Passing yards - Last (next closest, Leftwich +1,209 yds)
Completions - Last
Attempts - Last
TD Passes - 2nd to last (David Carr)
Sacks - 4th to last
Wins - Last
4QC - T-last
GWD - 2nd to last (3)
 

QBR 56.3 in 2022 > 46.2 in 2023 (-10.1)

QB Rating 85.2 in 2022 > 86.3 in 2023 (+00.9)
 

From 2022, in the same system, with an improved O-Line, a true WR1, playing the last place schedule, Fields numbers should have been better by default, even if he didn't improve. They weren't. There is really no debate on this. 

In my opinion, Fields has plateaued, just like in the GB game, teams that fill the escape lanes make him one-dimensional, taking away his greatest strength. What is left is a subpar passer capable of occasional highlight reel plays. The inconsistency week to week shows that you can't win on the broken plays every week, because they won't always be there. 

At this point, Poles has to figure out if he can make the team around Fields good enough to compensate for the QB position, or replace Fields and saying the QB position is what is holding this team back from success. 

People look at Fields and see his numbers for the year, he missed 5 games yet people use it a measuring stick on progress. If you use his average, he would have had another 1000 yds passing. Does that look better now? 3600 ? 

[adam]

11 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

People look at Fields and see his numbers for the year, he missed 5 games yet people use it a measuring stick on progress. If you use his average, he would have had another 1000 yds passing. Does that look better now? 3600 ? 

I will check but that's where the 38 starts comes from. I can limit it to something like 35-40 starts and look at those, but my assumption is they will be similar. 

 

[dawhizz]

I’m starting to think keeping Fields AND drafting a QB #1 isn’t the craziest option.  You get one more year if Fields on a cheap(ish) contract. You get a year to develop/evaluate a stud QB who will still have tremendous value a year from now if Fields balls out. 

[Stinger226]

7 minutes ago, adam said:

I will check but that's where the 38 starts comes from. I can limit it to something like 35-40 starts and look at those, but my assumption is they will be similar. 

 

You can find stats to try to show whatever point you're trying to make. The only thing that matters is everyone knows its not good enough. So which way does Poles go, no one knows that. A new QB is another restart, does Poles really want to do that? If he identifies a special QB, then he will perform well enough in the first year to win, if he brings in the wrong guy, we could still struggle. Everyone wants change but that brings risk. If he keeps Fields, upgrades the roster, get an OC that design's an offense to fit his strengths, he knows he can win with Fields for now. 2 more years at relative cheap QB money, and bring a prospect in to develop. That happened in KC while he was there. Many examples of good teams with not first round picks at QB, Purdy, Hurts, Prescott, Wilson was a third rounder. Build the team and he will find a QB somewhere.

[Stinger226]

Just now, dawhizz said:

I’m starting to think keeping Fields AND drafting a QB #1 isn’t the craziest option.  You get one more year if Fields on a cheap(ish) contract. You get a year to develop/evaluate a stud QB who will still have tremendous value a year from now if Fields balls out. 

Yes, they did that in KC while Poles was there. 

[ChileBear]

7 minutes ago, dawhizz said:

You get a year to develop/evaluate a stud QB who will still have tremendous value a year from now if Fields balls out. 

Stop it, please. It's been 3 years and Fields is not going to "ball out." He doesn't see the field, can't make quick reads or throws. He's an athlete plugged in to QB position. Maybe keep him this year, but for God's sake quit the ifs and buts on Fields and draft a QB for the future. And yes, I still want Poles to trade that first pick for a franchise-changing haul as well.

 

[Mongo3451]

39 minutes ago, dawhizz said:

I’m starting to think keeping Fields AND drafting a QB #1 isn’t the craziest option.  You get one more year if Fields on a cheap(ish) contract. You get a year to develop/evaluate a stud QB who will still have tremendous value a year from now if Fields balls out. 

I had that thought a few weeks ago and called in to the Carmen and Jurko show to ask their thoughts.  While Jurko is not the gospel, he said it would polarize the locker room and fan base.  Another thought, could we turn Justin into Taysom Hill?  Would Justin accept it?  Anyway, getting a second rounder for Justin sounds like the cleanest cut.  Especially, if we have a new coach and OC.

[Stinger226]

40 minutes ago, ChileBear said:

Stop it, please. It's been 3 years and Fields is not going to "ball out." He doesn't see the field, can't make quick reads or throws. He's an athlete plugged in to QB position. Maybe keep him this year, but for God's sake quit the ifs and buts on Fields and draft a QB for the future. And yes, I still want Poles to trade that first pick for a franchise-changing haul as well.

 

No one  is saying he's a tier one QB but you have to find one before you replace him. If you had a OC that designed an offense around him, he would  look better. And yet, I don't think he will ever be a  top 10 QB, but you can win games with him. If Poles thinks there's a special QB in the draft he will take him, but if he drafts Bryce Young, I think you may not like that either.  He's drafting a QB whether Fields plays one more year or not. Let it play out and see what happens.

[Pixote]

1 hour ago, dawhizz said:

I’m starting to think keeping Fields AND drafting a QB #1 isn’t the craziest option.  You get one more year if Fields on a cheap(ish) contract. You get a year to develop/evaluate a stud QB who will still have tremendous value a year from now if Fields balls out. 

Spot On! ?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I’ll say this as succinctly as I can. If after 35 starts you have to squint and project that he can somehow be the guy…than he isn’t the guy. 
 

Ocassionally someone gets annoited early and than fades….but no one in 20 years has gone the inverse and very few that are the guy after 3 years don’t end up near the top of the list. 
 

Think of all the best qbs in the league - by end of year 3…no one was questioning whether they were the guy..all the argued was are they the 3rd best or 6th best qb or the 2nd or 3rd best in the league. 
 

Mediocre qbs are a dime a dozen and don’t move the needle. I won’t tell you who the next elite one is…quite honestly I don’t think any nfl front office understands how to project qbs…but I do know I want a great one and I don’t want bears to stop until they find one….once they do I want them to create a culture to where they are ready to find the next one and build a true process for nurturing qbs. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Just now, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I’ll say this as succinctly as I can. If after 35 starts you have to squint and project that he can somehow be the guy…than he isn’t the guy. 
 

Ocassionally someone gets annoited early and than fades….but no one in 20 years has gone the inverse and very few that are the guy after 3 years don’t end up near the top of the list. 
 

Think of all the best qbs in the league - by end of year 3…no one was questioning whether they were the guy..all the argued was are they the 3rd best or 6th best qb or the 2nd or 3rd best in the league. 
 

Mediocre qbs are a dime a dozen and don’t move the needle. I won’t tell you who the next elite one is…quite honestly I don’t think any nfl front office understands how to project qbs…but I do know I want a great one and I don’t want bears to stop until they find one….once they do I want them to create a culture to where they are ready to find the next one and build a true process for nurturing qbs. 

And I’ll go further - I’ll say 3 years of playing time. So love is just finishing his first season…look at his stats the 2nd half of the year…td to int ratio is spectacular and his receiving corp has no one elite on it and there best running back was most of the year.