Fields-O-Meter

[BearFan PHX]

If they are going to keep Eberflus and Fields, we're gonna see who was right... and then live with that for the next several years after.

I guess it just comes down to whether people are fans of the team or the players. I want the team to win, i want good players to stay and bad ones to go.

But if youre a fan of a bad player, then I can see why you'd want to give up the team to help the player.

[Pixote]

Jay Cutler is on board with keeping Fields, Trading the #1 pick to strengthen the team:

What Jay Cutler believes Bears should do with Justin Fields

[Alaskan Grizzly]

33 minutes ago, Pixote said:

Jay Cutler is on board with keeping Fields, Trading the #1 pick to strengthen the team:

What Jay Cutler believes Bears should do with Justin Fields

Yeah this sounds a lot like what we was saying a few weeks ago and (surprise) I agree with him.  I cited some time back that both he and Chase Daniel threw their support behind Fields.  Which I think has some extra weight not only that they both used to play QB in the NFL but for Chicago too.  Seems they'd have some idea on what its like.

Throw in Moore's comment towards the end of the season that HE thought Fields was better than the top two picks in the draft and you can't help but listen.  

At the end of the day, I am in no way guaranteeing that Justin will win us a SB.  Just that he (or any prospective QB really) could do better if given a better chance with more options and better protection.    

[Daventry]

42 minutes ago, Pixote said:

Jay Cutler is on board with keeping Fields, Trading the #1 pick to strengthen the team:

What Jay Cutler believes Bears should do with Justin Fields

That’s a great reason to do the opposite.  I would respect the opinion of a stranger at the bar than that guy

[Daventry]

5 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Yeah this sounds a lot like what we was saying a few weeks ago and (surprise) I agree with him.  I cited some time back that both he and Chase Daniel threw their support behind Fields.  Which I think has some extra weight not only that they both used to play QB in the NFL but for Chicago too.  Seems they'd have some idea on what its like.

Throw in Moore's comment towards the end of the season that HE thought Fields was better than the top two picks in the draft and you can't help but listen.  

At the end of the day, I am in no way guaranteeing that Justin will win us a SB.  Just that he (or any prospective QB really) could do better if given a better chance with more options and better protection.    

Extra weight because they played in Chicago?  Why?  Neither could be considered successful.  

[Stinger226]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Yeah this sounds a lot like what we was saying a few weeks ago and (surprise) I agree with him.  I cited some time back that both he and Chase Daniel threw their support behind Fields.  Which I think has some extra weight not only that they both used to play QB in the NFL but for Chicago too.  Seems they'd have some idea on what its like.

Throw in Moore's comment towards the end of the season that HE thought Fields was better than the top two picks in the draft and you can't help but listen.  

At the end of the day, I am in no way guaranteeing that Justin will win us a SB.  Just that he (or any prospective QB really) could do better if given a better chance with more options and better protection.    

What I find interesting is people automatically know that Williams is a generational QB. Several signs suggest that might not be true. It's getting a draft haul , keep Justin vs he's a generational QB. Both can be wrong or both can be true. It's about the choices Poles makes.

[Stinger226]

3 minutes ago, Daventry said:

That’s a great reason to do the opposite.  I would respect the opinion of a stranger at the bar than that guy

Okay, I understand that,  what about the 30 or40 other players that support Justin? Former bears, former QBs, former coaches, you can't dismiss everybody.

[Daventry]

12 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Okay, I understand that,  what about the 30 or40 other players that support Justin? Former bears, former QBs, former coaches, you can't dismiss everybody.

30 or 40?  I don’t think there is nearly that many.  However, even if there were 300-400, I would not ignore my eyes and the statistics from the last three years and go sheep-like into the JF fan club.  We may not have a chance to get the #1 quarterback again for years.  I would much rather risk it all that way than rewinding the last three years and/or restarting another rebuild after failure.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

22 minutes ago, Daventry said:

Extra weight because they played in Chicago?  Why?  Neither could be considered successful.  

Well to be fair, name the last QB to have been what you considered "successful" in Chicago?  Although I bashed him a lot late in his career, Cutler was pretty damn good.  Considering what he had to work with.  And I added Chase because although he wasn't a multiple playoff winner like Dak Prescott, er I mean, Kirk Cousins....Chase has played a lot as an NFL QB (was a two-time Heisman candidate) and has a pretty good idea what to look for in that regard.  AND played under the relentless scrutiny that is Chicago Bears fandom.  So yeah...they have some respect in that regard.

[Daventry]

16 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Well to be fair, name the last QB to have been what you considered "successful" in Chicago?  Although I bashed him a lot late in his career, Cutler was pretty damn good.  Considering what he had to work with.  And I added Chase because although he wasn't a multiple playoff winner like Dak Prescott, er I mean, Kirk Cousins....Chase has played a lot as an NFL QB (was a two-time Heisman candidate) and has a pretty good idea what to look for in that regard.  AND played under the relentless scrutiny that is Chicago Bears fandom.  So yeah...they have some respect in that regard.

I don’t think Cutler was all that good at all, but I don’t want to relive the trauma of his slouch acting schtick that resulted in very little playoff plus results.  Daniels is an asterisk in football by any measure.  But, as I have said already, I will make my own mind up regardless, I don’t need outside input to decide on the Fields question.  I respect others opinions, everyone’s, but I have seen enough and am tired of losing. 

[BearFan PHX]

40 minutes ago, Daventry said:

30 or 40?  I don’t think there is nearly that many.  However, even if there were 300-400, I would not ignore my eyes and the statistics from the last three years and go sheep-like into the JF fan club.  We may not have a chance to get the #1 quarterback again for years.  I would much rather risk it all that way than rewinding the last three years and/or restarting another rebuild after failure.

This is where I'm at too.

I don't disrespect the players or pundits who think Justin is the right answer. I don't think they need to be stupid in my eyes for me to just not agree with them. I don't need to discount them, I just think they're wrong.

I just do what you said. I watch the tape, and I see what I see. i don't think Fields is the answer, and I certainly don't think you walk away from a chance to have your pick of a strong rookie QB class.

I'm not 100% on Williams yet, but I'm leaning more and more that way the more I am learning about him. But even if the scouts think Williams is a risk, and take another rookie in the top 3 picks or so, I still think that's preferable to sticking with Justin.

I totally get the value of the haul we can get for the #1 pick too. It equals about 3 first round picks, and since not all the value will be in the first round, it will be more than three players. That's a lot of good players.

Then I ask myself, if I was Kansas City, how many first round picks would it take to trade Mahomes away? 3 wouldnt do it, that's just the price of getting the #1 pick to try to find him again. I'd think it would take at least 5 or 6 first rounders worth of value to realistically even consider something like that. Bill Polian famously said that Peyton Manning was worth 10 first rounders, for example. Whether we agree or disagree, that's not outlandish. That's in the neighborhood of what an all time great QB is worth.

So let's say finding a franchise QB is worth 5 first rounders. If there is an 80% chance that that player will hit and be a franchise QB, then that means the pick to us right now is worth at least 4 first rounders (5 x 0.8).

And no one is offering us 4 first rounders for the #1 pick, so even though you dont get all those players, one successful Caleb Williams is worth more (5+). And so is one lottery ticket on Caleb being successful (4).

And we actually have the pick. That's not likely to happen again for a while.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, Daventry said:

30 or 40?  I don’t think there is nearly that many.  However, even if there were 300-400, I would not ignore my eyes and the statistics from the last three years and go sheep-like into the JF fan club.  We may not have a chance to get the #1 quarterback again for years.  I would much rather risk it all that way than rewinding the last three years and/or restarting another rebuild after failure.

So you're saying I am supposed to trust a passionate fans opinion over people that played QB and in the league . I think I'll pass. Now if you're a college or NFL scout then I will value your opinion much more but I don't think that's true. If you want a list , I'll take the time to make the list tomorrow.

[BearFan PHX]

12 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

So you're saying I am supposed to trust a passionate fans opinion over people that played QB and in the league . I think I'll pass. Now if you're a college or NFL scout then I will value your opinion much more but I don't think that's true. If you want a list , I'll take the time to make the list tomorrow.

i think he's saying watch the all 22 tape and then you can see it with your own eyes. No one here is saying they are an expert and should be trusted blindly. Check it out for yourself, and then youll have your own opinion and that will be cool.

[adam]

Rarely do you see players say bad things about other players, unless they are the diva types that say it about everyone. Most of the time, they know it's a business, and they are not going to get into other people's business by actually telling them the truth. They will say the generic things like he is a good leader, good teammate, etc. Unless they come out and say a player is top 5 of their position or some high level compliment, more times than not they are just being polite.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

12 minutes ago, adam said:

Rarely do you see players say bad things about other players, unless they are the diva types that say it about everyone.

Or as has been brought up before, when asked they say nothing at all.  Or are referred to as an “anonymous source”.  Of which, by the way, we’ve heard none of during all this.  Others may make a backhanded comment without specifically naming names.  What do make of the infamous comment by USC CB Jacobe Covington during their last bowl game?  

https://x.com/usc_nico/status/1740244889122881759?s=46&t=KrpJmhSTc4DI1sACtjisOQ

[Daventry]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

So you're saying I am supposed to trust a passionate fans opinion over people that played QB and in the league . I think I'll pass. Now if you're a college or NFL scout then I will value your opinion much more but I don't think that's true. If you want a list , I'll take the time to make the list tomorrow.

I am not saying for you to trust me, I am saying I trust me.  I don’t trust the opinions of the talking heads in the media, they all have agendas 

[Stinger226]

9 hours ago, Daventry said:

I am not saying for you to trust me, I am saying I trust me.  I don’t trust the opinions of the talking heads in the media, they all have agendas 

I get it , I was  just explaining my position on the matter. If I'm taking a cab ride to the doctor and he gives me medical advice, I just prefer the doctors advise over the cabbie. Everyone has the right to their opinions.

[adam]

15 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Or as has been brought up before, when asked they say nothing at all.  Or are referred to as an “anonymous source”.  Of which, by the way, we’ve heard none of during all this.  Others may make a backhanded comment without specifically naming names.  What do make of the infamous comment by USC CB Jacobe Covington during their last bowl game?  

https://x.com/usc_nico/status/1740244889122881759?s=46&t=KrpJmhSTc4DI1sACtjisOQ

I found that very interesting. There are a couple of ways you can take that. No offense to anyone or sports players in general, but they are not always well spoken. With that said, I can think of a few scenarios:

1. The most popular one, they disliked all the attention Williams got, and with him gone, it's not all about him anymore. They can play as a team and not hero ball. 
2. They were finally winning and dominating like they thought they should be. So they are a team now to watch out for. No one was respecting them. They now a team.
 

[Stinger226]

3 minutes ago, adam said:

I found that very interesting. There are a couple of ways you can take that. No offense to anyone or sports players in general, but they are not always well spoken. With that said, I can think of a few scenarios:

1. The most popular one, they disliked all the attention Williams got, and with him gone, it's not all about him anymore. They can play as a team and not hero ball. 
2. They were finally winning and dominating like they thought they should be. So they are a team now to watch out for. No one was respecting them. They now a team.
 

Also a player could be jealous because he gets all the attention. Or he's a egotistical asshole. Lots of things could be in play all at the same time.

[Daventry]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I get it , I was  just explaining my position on the matter. If I'm taking a cab ride to the doctor and he gives me medical advice, I just prefer the doctors advise over the cabbie. Everyone has the right to their opinions.

I agree but would use caution with talking heads in the media.  Who knows what they really think?  It’s a tough situation for sure, tough choices, but I sure hope we get a winning team in the end.

[Stinger226]

7 minutes ago, Daventry said:

I agree but would use caution with talking heads in the media.  Who knows what they really think?  It’s a tough situation for sure, tough choices, but I sure hope we get a winning team in the end.

It sure does raise the hype for a interesting off-season. So many ways we go, fascinating process. Since when  we ever major players in the draft plus two years in a row.

[Mongo3451]

5 hours ago, adam said:

I found that very interesting. There are a couple of ways you can take that. No offense to anyone or sports players in general, but they are not always well spoken. With that said, I can think of a few scenarios:

1. The most popular one, they disliked all the attention Williams got, and with him gone, it's not all about him anymore. They can play as a team and not hero ball. 
2. They were finally winning and dominating like they thought they should be. So they are a team now to watch out for. No one was respecting them. They now a team.
 

Or 3.  They were much maligned on the defensive side of the ball and finally made some big plays to help the team win. (Instead of it being the offense)

[adam]

Maybe I am wrong, but I do find it odd that the team would go out of their way to promote JF1 if he was going to be traded. Not that you don't show him in highlights or season reviews, but this seems over the top if they were planning to trade him:

Very cool video too.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

33 minutes ago, adam said:

Maybe I am wrong, but I do find it odd that the team would go out of their way to promote JF1 if he was going to be traded. Not that you don't show him in highlights or season reviews, but this seems over the top if they were planning to trade him:

Very cool video too.

He is under contract at least one more year and possibly two.  They had 3 losses that they should have won but came apart in the 4th.  That is 10 win potential and with help, should become the benchmark to hit or improve on.  Waldron will work with Fields on improving his release time, that is one thing Waldron is known for. They will add a legit WR2 and Waldron prefers size (MHJ). They should also find a slot WR, Malachi Corely West Kentucky.  The oline also needs upgrading as seen in the last game when GBs front 4 destroyed the pocket.  Get a Center and competition to oust Davis if he doesn't rebound.  Will that be enough for JF1, maybe or maybe not, but without that they were 7 wins that could have been 10. 

As for drafting a QB, whoever they take will require time to adjust and develop.  Stroud was an outlier, you don't see that from rookie qbs often.  Take a QB later like Nix or Penix if they are there at 8 or later.  Let them learn while putting heat on who earns the QB1 seat.

[Mongo3451]

53 minutes ago, adam said:

Maybe I am wrong, but I do find it odd that the team would go out of their way to promote JF1 if he was going to be traded. Not that you don't show him in highlights or season reviews, but this seems over the top if they were planning to trade him:

Any publicity is good publicity.  It portrays the confidence we have in him to potential suitors, giving us more leverage.  If he stays, it portrays the same confidence to the team, Justin and the fans. Win win...