Week 4 Official Loser Bowl Game Thread - DEN @ CHI, +3.5, O/U 45.5, SUN, OCT 1st, 12pm, FOX

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

All right quitters you got what you want.  Justin’s not it.  Flush the toilet and start a new rebuild.  FU€K!!!

oh dude, I HATE it. I want us to win because we deserve to win. if that was Fields I'd be the happiest guy. I really wanted him to succeed, he has all the physical tools. The only difference is I got to where you are now last week. Other than that, we are in the same place.

I wont go into a long rant of all the things Eberflus did wrong, but Im not talking about guessing zone and they play man etc. Thats football. Im talking about clock management and knowing when to take the field goal.

Going for it on 4th and 1 was as bad as when he did it week one. And who are you? Are you the macho guy that goes for it on 4th and 1 or are you the safe play not to lose guy who goes into zone way too quick, and basically kneels on the ball at the end of the first half?

It's not a real coaching staff. The roster has a lot of decent players now. We need a QB, a head coach, another WR and a pass rush. Those are big missing pieces, but at least now it wont be like Trubisky and Fields where they come in with nothing around them. The next guy will have advantages they didnt have.

[killakrzydav]

Stealthy tank job

[BearFan PHX]

24 minutes ago, killakrzydav said:

Stealthy tank job

lol nah, we really are this bad.

[adam]

1-3 feels so much different than 0-4, even though it's only one game. If they don't fire SOMEONE after TNF, just fold the franchise, sell the team, or move it to Gary. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, adam said:

If they don't fire SOMEONE after TNF

I was wondering what difference it made to do it now or wait . I know having a short week plays into it but the team won’t be really trying anyhow if they keep Flus or Getsy.  Maybe a firing or two ASAP would make some incremental change?  Poles did not look the least bit happy at the end of the game.  

[killakrzydav]

Flus and Getsy should be in the unemployment line

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

oh dude, I HATE it. I want us to win because we deserve to win. if that was Fields I'd be the happiest guy. I really wanted him to succeed, he has all the physical tools. The only difference is I got to where you are now last week. Other than that, we are in the same place.

My rant was a heat of the moment lapse.  I edited the “quitter” part out and apologize for going off.  This loss stung as much or more than the Parkey double doink to me.  I still have confidence in Fields’ ability and think the coaches really muffed it.   Yes I get your slow read concerns but he wasn’t doing that for a majority of the game.  It wasn't until he fumbled the ball did the wheels start to wobble. And as Matt Ryan kept pointing out Getsy needed to scheme less of having Justin with his back to the line because that fumble was a result of doing that very thing. 
 

For now I rescind my total flush comment.  I’d definitely be ok with them flushing Getsy and Flus and installing an interim right now.  Maybe that will spark some better play calls on both sides of the ball and better efficiency from the players?  I say stick to eight games to see how Fields does then let Bagent run the rest of the season.  Even with an interim and assuming it continues to go the way it is, you’re still on target with getting Williams next year.  

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

My rant was a heat of the moment lapse.  I edited the “quitter” part out and apologize for going off.  This loss stung as much or more than the Parkey double doink to me.  I still have confidence in Fields’ ability and think the coaches really muffed it.   Yes I get your slow read concerns but he wasn’t doing that for a majority of the game.  It wasn't until he fumbled the ball did the wheels start to wobble. And as Matt Ryan kept pointing out Getsy needed to scheme less of having Justin with his back to the line because that fumble was a result of doing that very thing. 
 

For now I rescind my total flush comment.  I’d definitely be ok with them flushing Getsy and Flus and installing an interim right now.  Maybe that will spark some better play calls on both sides of the ball and better efficiency from the players?  I say stick to eight games to see how Fields does then let Bagent run the rest of the season.  Even with an interim and assuming it continues to go the way it is, you’re still on target with getting Williams next year.  

It's all good - we all love the Bears, and I dont think you said anything personal anyway. Just a typical sports discussion you could have in any bar, and then Id buy you a beer

And I dont care if they fire Flus now or later. It doesnt really matter. But I think he has to be gone after this season, and everyone under him. I hope they have made that decision already, but when to pull the trigger doesnt matter to me. I still like Poles, but if they get rid of him, Im pretty sure there are other candidates for GM too. Sounds weird, but Ian Cunningham might be a good one.

Id be OK with keeping Poles too, and I suspect that's probably what the Bears are gonna do.

[50england50]

There is no way Bears sack Flus and Getsy before the end of the season, I don’t think we have changed coaches mid-season, it’s something I cannot remember, but I might be wrong.

I liked Fields play yesterday and agree that the play that lead to the sack is something that should not have be called. I think the chance of a sack is greater with that play and we could not afford to have a sack there. So Getsy was able to call a good game other than a couple of plays here and there. Can Getsy, learn and improve? I don’t know. 
 

My biggest disappoint was the defense giving up the 21 point lead considering that Flus’ background is on that side of the ball. If he had a coordinator calling the plays then I could understand there could be a disconnect between what Flus and his assistant wanted to call. If a head coach cannot effect the side of the ball which is his specialism, then how can he be competent leading the team. 

[adam]

7 hours ago, 50england50 said:

There is no way Bears sack Flus and Getsy before the end of the season, I don’t think we have changed coaches mid-season, it’s something I cannot remember, but I might be wrong.

I liked Fields play yesterday and agree that the play that lead to the sack is something that should not have be called. I think the chance of a sack is greater with that play and we could not afford to have a sack there. So Getsy was able to call a good game other than a couple of plays here and there. Can Getsy, learn and improve? I don’t know. 
 

My biggest disappoint was the defense giving up the 21 point lead considering that Flus’ background is on that side of the ball. If he had a coordinator calling the plays then I could understand there could be a disconnect between what Flus and his assistant wanted to call. If a head coach cannot effect the side of the ball which is his specialism, then how can he be competent leading the team. 

Flus has to go, he has lost the locker room. Just look at his press conferences, he is either lying or clueless, or both. 

[killakrzydav]

Man, from another forum some of the stuff they’re saying from the press conferences is scathing. I didn’t get to see it myself nor really want to tbh.  Did he really ask Claypool did he want to play?  I’d probably be better to have him coach all year and stink than get some fresh blood and win a few games.  

I’m glad Field’s played well. I really wish he’d succeed in a Bears uni. Is he really averaging a fumble a game? That’s nuts!

[ChileBear]

3 minutes ago, adam said:

Flus has to go, he has lost the locker room. Just look at his press conferences, he is either lying or clueless, or both. 

He has to go, but I don't see it happening this soon. Now, who is out there as candidates? And please, get a modern offense guy, that way he can develop Williams when we draft no. 1.

 

[killakrzydav]

We need to give Lincoln Riley a blank check. Qb/coach package

[Stinger226]

I get the clean the house talk but truth is, no matter what happens, Poles gets next year to right the ship. He has made some mistakes but has us in a good draft position and cap space. This probably the first time I have ever seen a true rebuild with the Bears. In the past we always had a decent roster so it was ( if we just do this) we would be winning again. That never worked. Sadly this is what it looks like to be bad with developing players. 

The reason Flus wont be fired in season is there is no one in house capable of taking over. I think one of the main problems yesterday was bad play calls at critical times. Flus lets Gesty run the offense. Not sure who was announcing but he was spot on about running plays with Justin facing the defense. 

Example: On the fumble play , he turned his back and when he turned around a rusher was hitting him, didnt even have time to move his arm forward for a missed pass. Then in the 4th and 1, going for it in the shotgun was ridiculous. Let a big fast QB go over Nate Davis and gain a 1/2 yard. I had no problem with going for it, it would ice a game that 3 points wouldnt have been enough with Wilson playing well and almost 3 minutes left. 

We have young players that are arguably improving and its about time injured players are coming back soon. So we are getting closer to winning some games. If Fields is actually getting better we still have a chance to win 5-6 games. When they say we aren't far away , they are correct. 

If Jenkins ( our best)  OL is back and Johnson, Jackson and Gordon is set to come back after the the 10 day mini bye , we will play a lot better. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

2 hours ago, adam said:

Flus has to go, he has lost the locker room. Just look at his press conferences, he is either lying or clueless, or both. 

Lets see how they do on Thursday. I don't think he has lost the lockeroom like Trestman has, but he is butchering the Claypool words. Claypool being inactive was the right decision - stick with it.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I had a theory that hit me last night - did Poles actually see this coming.  I don't know if he did or didn't and I don't know what to think about him if he did (it may not be a good thing). But if I think about the Bears off-season moves, they clearly didn't committ to Fields - but focused on building better parts for him (or a new QB) while ensuring they had an eye on the future.

Very clear that Poles didn't go all in on Fields - he also smartly didn't go all out.  On the defensive side - Poles upgraded LB and ignored Defense, with exception to the 2 draft picks at tackle. With that in mind - Poles knows that for the Tampa 2 to work - you need to have a good dline - stop the run, etc.  Bears can't do that and I almost wonder did Poles ignore that because if Flus didn't work out (and he saw the writing on the wall that this system didn't work) - he didn't want to be locked in and stuck in a bad spot in terms of dead assets/cap on players who aren't scheme fits (in the case that they wanted to flip to a 3-4).

Reality is - TJ Edwards and Edmunds are both clear fits in either scheme, the DB's being invested are somewhat scheme agnostic (and more about zone vs. man coverage).  Just something I was thinking about - probably nothing to do it.  

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I had a theory that hit me last night - did Poles actually see this coming.  I don't know if he did or didn't and I don't know what to think about him if he did (it may not be a good thing). But if I think about the Bears off-season moves, they clearly didn't committ to Fields - but focused on building better parts for him (or a new QB) while ensuring they had an eye on the future.

Very clear that Poles didn't go all in on Fields - he also smartly didn't go all out.  On the defensive side - Poles upgraded LB and ignored Defense, with exception to the 2 draft picks at tackle. With that in mind - Poles knows that for the Tampa 2 to work - you need to have a good dline - stop the run, etc.  Bears can't do that and I almost wonder did Poles ignore that because if Flus didn't work out (and he saw the writing on the wall that this system didn't work) - he didn't want to be locked in and stuck in a bad spot in terms of dead assets/cap on players who aren't scheme fits (in the case that they wanted to flip to a 3-4).

Reality is - TJ Edwards and Edmunds are both clear fits in either scheme, the DB's being invested are somewhat scheme agnostic (and more about zone vs. man coverage).  Just something I was thinking about - probably nothing to do it.  

I think you're right.

I don't think Poles saw all of this coming, but I absolutely think he left all his possibilities open. All the moves he made fit either scenario - in other words he gave Fields a year to show what he could do, but he also gave himself LOTS of insurance in case that didnt work out. Trading for the 2024 Carolina first rounder is a big signal in that. He could, for example, have traded that first rounder for a pass rusher.

Now a big part of it is that it was always going to take more than one year to redo the roster, and pass rusher was a piece that just didnt work out in the draft or free agency for us.

I think Poles always had a two year plan with contingencies for either Fields outcome. So thats not so much a crystal ball, or a strategy of losing, but instead a multidimensional plan with outs for either scenario on Fields AND Eberflus.

One way to say it is that Poles didn't like the 2023 rookie QBs as much as he liked the combination of Fields' development OR the top rookie QBs in 2024.

Leaving those options open is the mark of a good GM.

Pole's biggest failures are Claypool and Eberflus. Claypool was a chance to try to get Justin some weapons for 2022. It was a reach, and that was OK at the time. The same reach this year would be a terrible idea. And Eberflus came from a short list that had already been compiled by the McCaskeys before Poles got there.

Now, if you have someone you think is awesome as a candidate for GM, its OK to fire Poles - but not because he did such a bad job - hes actually doing pretty well - but just because you think the new guy will be better?

My prediction is that Warren keeps Poles and the scouts, and together they fire the coaching staff.

[ChileBear]

8 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

My prediction is that Warren keeps Poles and the scouts, and together they fire the coaching staff.

I see this being the scenario. Flus and his staff are steering us into a top 5 draft pick. I don't think Fields is the answer-doesn't see the field, holds the ball too long and hasn't taken charge in the game when we needed him to. Thank God we'll have two high picks in the next draft.

 

[killakrzydav]

I don’t want to move off Poles. I think he’s solid with a couple of misses. Lots of hits too.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I had a theory that hit me last night - did Poles actually see this coming.  I don't know if he did or didn't and I don't know what to think about him if he did (it may not be a good thing). But if I think about the Bears off-season moves, they clearly didn't committ to Fields - but focused on building better parts for him (or a new QB) while ensuring they had an eye on the future.

Very clear that Poles didn't go all in on Fields - he also smartly didn't go all out.  On the defensive side - Poles upgraded LB and ignored Defense, with exception to the 2 draft picks at tackle. With that in mind - Poles knows that for the Tampa 2 to work - you need to have a good dline - stop the run, etc.  Bears can't do that and I almost wonder did Poles ignore that because if Flus didn't work out (and he saw the writing on the wall that this system didn't work) - he didn't want to be locked in and stuck in a bad spot in terms of dead assets/cap on players who aren't scheme fits (in the case that they wanted to flip to a 3-4).

Reality is - TJ Edwards and Edmunds are both clear fits in either scheme, the DB's being invested are somewhat scheme agnostic (and more about zone vs. man coverage).  Just something I was thinking about - probably nothing to do it.  

To follow your lead, Billings is playing the NT spot well, are Dexter and Pickens better DE fits in a 3-4 scheme? Sewell actually is a better edge player in a 3-4 than SLB. Are we a Jared Verse away from a 3-4 defense already built?

I doubt that logic but maybe Poles is evaluating a bad cover 2 defense and dont like what he's seeing. 

[killakrzydav]

Cover 2 is too dated. It doesn’t work against movement. Good offenses motion the lbs all over the place leaving massive gaps where they were. I’m not sure how we run out there with this scheme nowadays.

[adam]

1 minute ago, killakrzydav said:

Cover 2 is too dated. It doesn’t work against movement. Good offenses motion the lbs all over the place leaving massive gaps where they were. I’m not sure how we run out there with this scheme nowadays.

Even at lower levels its not used anymore. 

[killakrzydav]

Is any other team running it in the pros?

[BearFan PHX]

Well it's hard to say.

Every team has Cover 2 in their playbook, and every team uses it. The question would be how often, and how predictably.

When NFL offenses started lighting it up a couple years ago, the fashion was single high safety. Then Sean McVey showed the NFL that 2 deep safeties can stop the modern passing offenses. It wasnt always cover 2 per se - sometimes deep deep with man under, sometimes exotic and mixed coverages. But suddenly, like bellbottoms back in style, two deep safeties started appearing all over the league again.

In the end it's like rock paper scissors. You cant say Rock is antiquated. It's JUST the thing when someone calls scissors. But if you call rock EVERY time, your opponent knows that paper will beat you.

If your base defense is vanilla Cover 2, you better have a strong pass rush. If you do you'll get turnovers. if you don't... well we can all see.

It's about game planning and matchups, and any defense is about getting to the quarterback too. I dont think we can blame the cover 2 for all of this - it's become more fashionable lately in the NFL again. But if you play it every down like its 1990, and you dont have a pass rush, it's gonna suck.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, killakrzydav said:

Cover 2 is too dated. It doesn’t work against movement. Good offenses motion the lbs all over the place leaving massive gaps where they were. I’m not sure how we run out there with this scheme nowadays.

we've certainly seen Edmunds moved out of the middle on 3rd down by opponents formation.