Week 5 Official TNF Palate Cleanser Loss Thread - CHI @ WAS, THU, OCT 5, 715PM CDT, Amazon, +6.5, 44.5 O/U

[BearFan PHX]

27 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

How many QBs in the league recover those high snaps? Having an athletic QB has its advantages. 

Justin has always had all those extra athletic intangibles. The question is his ability to read defenses and throw with anticipation. We've seen him do a much better job of it the last two weeks, but he has also had excellent protection.

Every QB looks awful with only 2 seconds to throw, and all look like hall-of-famers with 5 seconds. Justin has been at the bottom of the league for ball release time. That can be read different ways. It means he wasnt sacked, he did eventually throw the ball, so he had protection, but that could also be because he is mobile and was running for his life.

If the light bulb comes on (and stays on!) for Fields as a passer, then all those extras become icing on the cake and he would be a very difficult QB to defend. That's what I thought was going to happen this year. Then we saw the performances we saw.

Now I almost feel like the coaches blew the offseason, and it took us 4 games to wake up and get to where some teams are on week 1 or 2. If that's the case, there may be some real upside ahead of us - but that's still a mark against Eberflus.

But if Justin keeps balling out consistently - and we beat some good teams - then i will start to believe in Justin's possible future.

At that point I still don't know if you take Caleb Williams and get a haul of picks for Justin - for what Caleb may become and for resetting the QB rookie deal window - but at that point we would know that Fields is an actual NFL QB too.

The arrow is pointing up now, and weve seen some flashes. Now do it for 5 more weeks. Then 5 more!

[DABEARSDABOMB]

16 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Justin has always had all those extra athletic intangibles. The question is his ability to read defenses and throw with anticipation. We've seen him do a much better job of it the last two weeks, but he has also had excellent protection.

Every QB looks awful with only 2 seconds to throw, and all look like hall-of-famers with 5 seconds. Justin has been at the bottom of the league for ball release time. That can be read different ways. It means he wasnt sacked, he did eventually throw the ball, so he had protection, but that could also be because he is mobile and was running for his life.

If the light bulb comes on (and stays on!) for Fields as a passer, then all those extras become icing on the cake and he would be a very difficult QB to defend. That's what I thought was going to happen this year. Then we saw the performances we saw.

Now I almost feel like the coaches blew the offseason, and it took us 4 games to wake up and get to where some teams are on week 1 or 2. If that's the case, there may be some real upside ahead of us - but that's still a mark against Eberflus.

But if Justin keeps balling out consistently - and we beat some good teams - then i will start to believe in Justin's possible future.

At that point I still don't know if you take Caleb Williams and get a haul of picks for Justin - for what Caleb may become and for resetting the QB rookie deal window - but at that point we would know that Fields is an actual NFL QB too.

The arrow is pointing up now, and weve seen some flashes. Now do it for 5 more weeks. Then 5 more!

One thing is - Fields had such bad talent at wideout / skill positions for 2 years, did it really take him time to actually realize - now that I have weapons, I can actually throw them open, but he was so ingrained in his mind not to do it, because for 2 years it didn't really work, because his guys couldn't get open (I mean the wideout corps were horrific last year and the year before).  

[Pixote]

Fields had the cards stacked against him from the beginning.

Bad OCs - not addressing his strengths and horrible play calling

Bad WR corps - Not getting open, wrong routes, drops

Bad OL - I think last night was the best protection he has had since drafted

Against WAS play calling was much improved, DJM was brilliant, and the OL was solid. It proves to me that Justin is a stud if given the support he (and all QBs) needs.

If Justin proves me correct and he continues to shine, AND, if Carolina gives us the #1 pick next year, I can't wait to see what Poles can get from a team wanting the #1 QB prospect. The bidding will be fierce and Poles could wind up with a haul that will make history.

 

 

 

[BearFan PHX]

These are all valid points. I thought Fields had been irreparably ruined, but perhaps not all of his own making.

It's just that if you put a good QB behind an awful line and with bad receivers, they will look horrible, but if you put a bad one in that situation they will also look bad. So while these are fair excuses, and possibly true, nothing matters until we see it get right on the field consistently.

Now we've seen flashes. And that's exciting. I still think Fields is late with most of his throws, but with that much time from an improved OL, they will certainly win their share of games even throwing late. But he still needs to grow in anticipation to become competitive in the league.

As to trusting receivers to throw them open, trading Claypool pays dividends here too. If it is just a matter of trust I look forward to Fields shortening his internal clock. But for now, it's still too slow, even as it is getting better. This level won't beat the top 15 defenses. But he is improving - and I wont put a ceiling on it.

There is certainly reason for hope, and it would be very gratifying to watch Fields ascend.

I still think a lot of this long lasting rust is because we didn't play in preseason. Those first four games may have been necessary for the team to grow, but 4 games is a lot.

I can now see a possible scenario where Fields stays but Eberflus goes. Not predicting it, just saying that's now one outcome barely visible in a hazy future.

Lastly I'll say this - for everything I've ever said and anything I ever will say about the future in sports or politics etc - no one has a crystal ball. All I can do is say my opinion on where someone is at that moment, and notice the trend line from there.

Just like I cant say Caleb Williams will be a true NFL stud until he is one either!

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Justin has always had all those extra athletic intangibles. The question is his ability to read defenses and throw with anticipation. We've seen him do a much better job of it the last two weeks, but he has also had excellent protection.

Every QB looks awful with only 2 seconds to throw, and all look like hall-of-famers with 5 seconds. Justin has been at the bottom of the league for ball release time. That can be read different ways. It means he wasnt sacked, he did eventually throw the ball, so he had protection, but that could also be because he is mobile and was running for his life.

If the light bulb comes on (and stays on!) for Fields as a passer, then all those extras become icing on the cake and he would be a very difficult QB to defend. That's what I thought was going to happen this year. Then we saw the performances we saw.

Now I almost feel like the coaches blew the offseason, and it took us 4 games to wake up and get to where some teams are on week 1 or 2. If that's the case, there may be some real upside ahead of us - but that's still a mark against Eberflus.

But if Justin keeps balling out consistently - and we beat some good teams - then i will start to believe in Justin's possible future.

At that point I still don't know if you take Caleb Williams and get a haul of picks for Justin - for what Caleb may become and for resetting the QB rookie deal window - but at that point we would know that Fields is an actual NFL QB too.

The arrow is pointing up now, and weve seen some flashes. Now do it for 5 more weeks. Then 5 more!

We have to remember they are playing with many new players. This is year two of a difficult offense to learn too.  Plus the amount of injuries has changed many aspects with making sure lesser talent is ready to go.  If game 1 was Denver and game 2 Washington, I feel the Bears could have won the GB game and been more competitive against TB/KC.  If they can continue to make progress, then the sky's the limit.  The amount of talent and depth they can add after the season should make the Bears very competitive.  As for Fields, he can get himself accumulated to the league with the good protection and better talent at WR.  He has not had that to grow and if he continues like the last two games, he can become what we hoped this last offseason.  Trade the #1 over all for 2 future 1sts and more and wowzers.

[adam]

19 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

man as much as i have questions on JF, I have NONE of DJ Moore - I saw enough of his film from Carolina to know who he is - he's a total stud. Always has been.

The wild thing is the QBs he has played for. Most of the other elite WRs have a had good to great QBs throwing them the ball. Jefferson is great, but how much worse would he have been on Carolina with 10 different QBs. The Bears are actually lucky that Moore's stats were suppressed in Carolina, because WR1s are hard to find. 

 

11 hours ago, ChileBear said:

Running game could take a big hit due to injuries, though we have 10 days before the next game. Herbert's injury looked nasty, but he came back. Johnsons concussion could be over by the next game, I hope.

Conundrum: If Fields does continue to progress, do we win more games, taking us out of the early draft spots? Still, we always have the Panthers to get us that golden ticket. I'd have to see Fields bring us back in several games to buy into him as our ultimate QB. I hope he does, but not convinced yet. He's gonna have several opportunities to prove it the rest of the season. Oh, and what happened to Getsy? Did we have any quick LOS throws that end up losing yards? Play calling was a great improvement.

If the Bears played like they did last night in their previous games, they are probably 4-1 and would've given KC a run for their money. Now they need to take the next step and make halftime adjustments. 

I want Fields to close out a few more games and have some successful 2 minute drills.

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

4 minutes ago, adam said:

If the Bears played like they did last night in their previous games, they are probably 4-1 and would've given KC a run for their money. Now they need to take the next step and make halftime adjustments. 

I want Fields to close out a few more games and have some successful 2 minute drills.

 

I agree with the team would have a much better record if they knew what they could do.  It took getting a couple of players healthy and learning how to play.  I have some concerns about WR2 but Kmet is stepping into that role. 

Fields has a ways to go to cleanse the memories, but it is happening.

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Every QB looks awful with only 2 seconds to throw, and all look like hall-of-famers with 5 seconds. Justin has been at the bottom of the league for ball release time. That can be read different ways. It means he wasnt sacked, he did eventually throw the ball, so he had protection, but that could also be because he is mobile and was running for his life.

 

I don't think this statement is valid and being good at the QB position is much more complex than that.  I'll just use Fields as the example.  There have been plenty of plays in the first 3-4 weeks where he had lots of time in the pocket, with no pressure, and he still held onto the ball even with open receivers.  Sports media making that statement (anyone can be good with this much time) were among the people criticizing him for holding onto the ball too long just two weeks earlier.  

Certainly it is fair to say most QBs look better with more time and less pressure but that doesn't elevate them to top 10 status.  If it did you wouldn't see such a big rush on drafting a QB every year.  Focus would simply be on taking the QB who fell to you and using the higher 1st Rd picks on Oline.  

With good Oline play why can't we just throw Bagent out there anytime Fields is struggling.   That's because there is another variable beyond pass rush pressure to contend with:  Coverage.  

[50england50]

On 10/6/2023 at 5:44 AM, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Yep - big miss. 

Agree especially when our PI was less contact. Don’t mind the Mooney call if the refs are consistent. 
 

With DJ supposed stepping out of bounds, why not let it play out and review the TD. I only managed to watch the highlights but haven’t seen the view at the sideline. 

[BearFan PHX]

10 hours ago, adam said:

The wild thing is the QBs he has played for. Most of the other elite WRs have a had good to great QBs throwing them the ball. Jefferson is great, but how much worse would he have been on Carolina with 10 different QBs. The Bears are actually lucky that Moore's stats were suppressed in Carolina, because WR1s are hard to find.

Yup! Moore's stats in Carolina are all the more impressive since he had no one throwing to him. Watching the film you see Moore get open and STAY OPEN so that these slow processing QBs can find him late. He is a tremendously underrated receiver.

Carolina let him go because getting your QB right is worth losing any other player at any other position. Something to remember when we evaluate Fields at the end of the year...

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Yup! Moore's stats in Carolina are all the more impressive since he had no one throwing to him. Watching the film you see Moore get open and STAY OPEN so that these slow processing QBs can find him late. He is a tremendously underrated receiver.

Carolina let him go because getting your QB right is worth losing any other player at any other position. Something to remember when we evaluate Fields at the end of the year...

With D j Moore on this roster and the connection between him and JF1, its going to be hard for him not to have good stats at the end of the year. The jury is still out but its trending up.

[Pixote]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Carolina let him go because getting your QB right is worth losing any other player at any other position. Something to remember when we evaluate Fields at the end of the year...

And it looks as if Carolina blew it and drafted the wrong QB, ?

The kid drafted 2nd by Houston is having an awesome rookie year.

[adam]

44 minutes ago, Pixote said:

And it looks as if Carolina blew it and drafted the wrong QB, ?

The kid drafted 2nd by Houston is having an awesome rookie year.

Yeah, I would not have traded up for Young. He might now how to read defenses, but he is just too small for today's monsters. 

and to think they gave the Bears Moore and a 1st and a 2nd. Right now Moore is playing better than any 1st round WR would be. I can't even imagine what the team would look like without Moore.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Tevin Jenins - 37 snaps, 0 pressures or sacks given.  10 days to recoup and game 6 should be improved with Whitehair getting practice all week working on those snaps.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

2 hours ago, adam said:

Yeah, I would not have traded up for Young. He might now how to read defenses, but he is just too small for today's monsters. 

and to think they gave the Bears Moore and a 1st and a 2nd. Right now Moore is playing better than any 1st round WR would be. I can't even imagine what the team would look like without Moore.

Young is small but if he stays healthy he is going to be quite good. Very good intangibles etc. 

[adam]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Tevin Jenins - 37 snaps, 0 pressures or sacks given.  10 days to recoup and game 6 should be improved with Whitehair getting practice all week working on those snaps.

Jenkins played awesome. Davis now with a few games under his belt, he has been really solid. Wright is getting better every game. So the only weakness is LT and Borom, so that is the only side Fields needs to be concerned about.  

[adam]

44 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Young is small but if he stays healthy he is going to be quite good. Very good intangibles etc. 

Being small is going to cause him to not be healthy. He can't even do QB sneaks because he is too small. I've never heard or seen that before.

He is a high IQ player, but I don't know if that is enough in the NFL to survive when you're that small. Maybe he becomes the next Brees, but odds are against him.  

[Mongo3451]

32 minutes ago, adam said:

Jenkins played awesome. Davis now with a few games under his belt, he has been really solid. Wright is getting better every game. So the only weakness is LT and Borom, so that is the only side Fields needs to be concerned about.  

That being said, Borom has been a very pleasant surprise.  Getting Jones back will then give us depth for the first time in decades.  Year two of the rebuild is going the way it should.  Next year is, nothing but, BPA up and down the board.

[AZ54]

9 hours ago, 50england50 said:

Agree especially when our PI was less contact. Don’t mind the Mooney call if the refs are consistent. 
 

With DJ supposed stepping out of bounds, why not let it play out and review the TD. I only managed to watch the highlights but haven’t seen the view at the sideline. 

Watch the highlights on that play and you'll see a referee literally right there on the sideline watching DJ's feet as he toe taps...no whistle.  Then from 20-30 yards behind the play comes another referee blowing his whistle that he was out of bounds.  There's just no way that ref could know for sure he was out.  Even if you think he might have been out, let it play out and review it.  The Amazon broadcast was horrible because they never showed a replay of the sideline view.  

[AZ54]

41 minutes ago, adam said:

Jenkins played awesome. Davis now with a few games under his belt, he has been really solid. Wright is getting better every game. So the only weakness is LT and Borom, so that is the only side Fields needs to be concerned about.  

The more I watch of him ...Davis is pretty good.  Wright is also pretty good although he still has mental mistakes from time to time.  That's to be expected for a rookie in just his first 5 games.  Jenkins had a couple timing glitches on his blocks, to be expected after missing weeks, but he is a beast.   

Whitehair is a definite improvement over Patrick, minus the snap issues which should get better with more reps.  He's under contract through 2024 which gives Poles time to find a good replacement.  If they like really him there they might restructure him and add a year in 2025.  I doubt that happens for cap space reasons, but regardless that gives Poles 2 offseason's to find his starting center.  

 

[adam]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Watch the highlights on that play and you'll see a referee literally right there on the sideline watching DJ's feet as he toe taps...no whistle.  Then from 20-30 yards behind the play comes another referee blowing his whistle that he was out of bounds.  There's just no way that ref could know for sure he was out.  Even if you think he might have been out, let it play out and review it.  The Amazon broadcast was horrible because they never showed a replay of the sideline view.  

The official who threw the flag was even blocked by a defender, there was no way he could know if he stepped out or not. That was super fishy. Also, that defender actually ran out of bounds and back in on his own (which I thought was a penalty).

They also didn't even spot the ball right. They put it on the 31 but Moore didn't step on the 31. The foot in question was just past the 29 (inside the 30), so they were literally at least a yard off if that is where they called him out. I still don't understand the call. 

[BearFan PHX]

8 hours ago, Pixote said:

And it looks as if Carolina blew it and drafted the wrong QB, ?

The kid drafted 2nd by Houston is having an awesome rookie year.

It's always a crapshoot on drafting QBs high int he first round. And it gets even harder to see from there down...
 

7 hours ago, adam said:

and to think they gave the Bears Moore and a 1st and a 2nd. Right now Moore is playing better than any 1st round WR would be. I can't even imagine what the team would look like without Moore.

This is very true. Moore is extremely underrated. If we were to get Marvin Harrison Jr - imagine Moore as your number 2! He reminds me of Steve Smith.
 

4 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Watch the highlights on that play and you'll see a referee literally right there on the sideline watching DJ's feet as he toe taps...no whistle.  Then from 20-30 yards behind the play comes another referee blowing his whistle that he was out of bounds.  There's just no way that ref could know for sure he was out.  Even if you think he might have been out, let it play out and review it.  The Amazon broadcast was horrible because they never showed a replay of the sideline view.  

Youre totally right - the broadcast should have shown it. Ive since seen stills that show he was out - but the ends dont justify the means, they still should have looked at it on replay for US and for them.