2024 Draft Board

[Stinger226]

18 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

 I like Newton from illinois, but that is if they don't change defensive schemes. I would like to see them keep consistency and stick with Flus, but he needs a great DC to get them elevated. Maybe bring back Ron Riveria if he is let go. 

Im pretty sure Rivera gets let go this year and dont think his ego is that big to not  take a DC job, plus they run a 4-3 in Washington. 

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Im pretty sure Rivera gets let go this year and dont think his ego is that big to not  take a DC job, plus they run a 4-3 in Washington. 

No to Rivera.  His defenses don't even perform to expectation.  His time is done.

 

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

No to Rivera.  His defenses don't even perform to expectation.  His time is done.

 

Yeah, after the Bears offense came into town on a short week and put up 40 on them that's a problem.   Of course he's getting fired, the owner is giving away good talent for draft picks.  That means his evaluation of the coaching staff is complete.  This was equally evident in the last minute addition of Montez Sweat to trade talks when they couldn't get anything decent for Young.   If Poles is to be believed the Sweat deal was done in 3hrs.  High draft picks don't just help build the roster they help recruit HC candidates, and maybe GM candidates.  

 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Yeah, after the Bears offense came into town on a short week and put up 40 on them that's a problem.   Of course he's getting fired, the owner is giving away good talent for draft picks.  That means his evaluation of the coaching staff is complete.  This was equally evident in the last minute addition of Montez Sweat to trade talks when they couldn't get anything decent for Young.   If Poles is to be believed the Sweat deal was done in 3hrs.  High draft picks don't just help build the roster they help recruit HC candidates, and maybe GM candidates.  

 

well said.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

9 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Yeah, after the Bears offense came into town on a short week and put up 40 on them that's a problem.   Of course he's getting fired, the owner is giving away good talent for draft picks.  That means his evaluation of the coaching staff is complete.  This was equally evident in the last minute addition of Montez Sweat to trade talks when they couldn't get anything decent for Young.   If Poles is to be believed the Sweat deal was done in 3hrs.  High draft picks don't just help build the roster they help recruit HC candidates, and maybe GM candidates.  

 

Another rumor floating is that the Commanders want to trade for Belichick.  I only say Rivera as a DC, as a  HC he had a couple of great seasons at Car, but let him run the D like he did before he departed the Bears.  

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Another rumor floating is that the Commanders want to trade for Belichick.  I only say Rivera as a DC, as a  HC he had a couple of great seasons at Car, but let him run the D like he did before he departed the Bears.  

He's the head coach.  His D is getting ran, but it's obsolete and he's too stubborn to realize it.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

29 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

He's the head coach.  His D is getting ran, but it's obsolete and he's too stubborn to realize it.

He did pretty good in Lovies D, which Flus runs a version.  All I'm saying is if the Bears stay with the program they have he can be an option.  Maybe Marinelli comes back from retirement but doubtful. Changing the HC might mean another overhaul and I am not sure I can take these every few years. Heck, see if Lovie would take the DC position.

[Pixote]

My wish is that Fields "EARNS" the role of starting QB for the foreseeable future. I hope he rocks when he returns to the lineup.

That said, if indeed he is our future, I don't want to see him have to learn another offensive system.

If Flus goes, then the entire coaching staff exits, then a new offense playbook is implemented.

I don't want to go there.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

He did pretty good in Lovies D, which Flus runs a version.  All I'm saying is if the Bears stay with the program they have he can be an option.  Maybe Marinelli comes back from retirement but doubtful. Changing the HC might mean another overhaul and I am not sure I can take these every few years. Heck, see if Lovie would take the DC position.

One thing is certain, with Montez locked up and high draft picks, at least one likely to be used on Dline taking over the Bears defense is a good job opening for any talented coach.   We have good talent at al 3 levels now, just need to add another Edge and FS.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

14 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

One thing is certain, with Montez locked up and high draft picks, at least one likely to be used on Dline taking over the Bears defense is a good job opening for any talented coach.   We have good talent at al 3 levels now, just need to add another Edge and FS.  

I would add another DT too.  We are going bigger up front and Dexter and Pickens can move well too. I hope to see Travis Bell do well in Atlanta, he was the Bagent for a Dline.  The Bears need to find a replacement for Jones for the rotation.  Maybe walker is the guy but I would like another draftee there. 

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I would add another DT too.  We are going bigger up front and Dexter and Pickens can move well too. I hope to see Travis Bell do well in Atlanta, he was the Bagent for a Dline.  The Bears need to find a replacement for Jones for the rotation.  Maybe walker is the guy but I would like another draftee there. 

Another DT for sure but how much money we invest depends on how the rookies finish the season.  I’m thinking adding a FA is better than another rookie.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

On 11/4/2023 at 11:34 AM, Mongo3451 said:

He's the head coach.  His D is getting ran, but it's obsolete and he's too stubborn to realize it.

Any change of thoughts on Riveria? I would like to see him get this D more aggressive but that might not be Flus thinking. Two former HC in Riveria and Riech would be a ton more experience to help Flus get us to the top.

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Any change of thoughts on Riveria? I would like to see him get this D more aggressive but that might not be Flus thinking. Two former HC in Riveria and Riech would be a ton more experience to help Flus get us to the top.

Nailed me on that one.  Yep on Rivera.  I must have been drinking...

[Light63]

Hi guys, long time lurker and 1st-time poster. This is how I feel about this draft. When Flus and Getsy came, Fields and other players were already there from the previous regime. Now that Flus is kept and Getsy along with his offensive staff were let go, this is how I feel.

1. Give Flus his new players so he could teach them to believe in his playing philosophy, which mean we should trade Fields.

2. Draft Caleb Williams as our #1 pick. I’ve watched many USC games, and in conclusion, CW does possess a quarterback vision. Fields lacks behind in this category. When we drafted Fields three years ago, I was elated; but three years later, I could see that Fields’ vision is short. Peoples kept on saying it was due to Getsy’s game plans, but I don’t think do. Sure, there’s a part of it due to Getsy’s plan, but others due to Fields’ lack of a quarterback vision.

3. Trade up to #2 by our #9 pick, 2024 2nd rd pick, 2025 2nd rd pick, and Justin Fields. Here, we draft Marvin Harrison, Jr.

With Caleb a quarterback and DJ and MHJ wide receivers, we will win a lot of games. We might even go to the playoff next year.

Three years already with disappointment, I just don’t want to go through another year finding excuses for Fields!

[adam]

21 minutes ago, Light63 said:

Hi guys, long time lurker and 1st-time poster. This is how I feel about this draft. When Flus and Getsy came, Fields and other players were already there from the previous regime. Now that Flus is kept and Getsy along with his offensive staff were let go, this is how I feel.

1. Give Flus his new players so he could teach them to believe in his playing philosophy, which mean we should trade Fields.

2. Draft Caleb Williams as our #1 pick. I’ve watched many USC games, and in conclusion, CW does possess a quarterback vision. Fields lacks behind in this category. When we drafted Fields three years ago, I was elated; but three years later, I could see that Fields’ vision is short. Peoples kept on saying it was due to Getsy’s game plans, but I don’t think do. Sure, there’s a part of it due to Getsy’s plan, but others due to Fields’ lack of a quarterback vision.

3. Trade up to #2 by our #9 pick, 2024 2nd rd pick, 2025 2nd rd pick, and Justin Fields. Here, we draft Marvin Harrison, Jr.

With Caleb a quarterback and DJ and MHJ wide receivers, we will win a lot of games. We might even go to the playoff next year.

Three years already with disappointment, I just don’t want to go through another year finding excuses for Fields!

Welcome to the board! 

1. You are correct, Flus still technically doesn't have his guy at QB, just like Poles. They inherited Fields, so that is another factor in this entire situation to consider.

2. If they draft anyone at #1 Williams is definitely one of the QBs they have to consider as long as the "human" stuff checks out.

3. This is a tough one. The Bears do not have a 2024 2nd from the Sweat trade, and 9 to 2 is a pretty huge leap that almost always includes a future 1st. There may be some crazy 3-team trade scenario and trade up to #3 that would work, assuming a QB is taken at #2 and you can get MHJ at #3 (Fields > ATL for #8 + #9 + 2025 2nd > #3).

DJ and MHJ would instantly become a top 5 Duo in the NFL. 

Yeah, it has been a long 3 years, especially last year when the most exciting game was a HOU vs IND game.

 

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, Light63 said:

Hi guys, long time lurker and 1st-time poster. This is how I feel about this draft. When Flus and Getsy came, Fields and other players were already there from the previous regime. Now that Flus is kept and Getsy along with his offensive staff were let go, this is how I feel.

1. Give Flus his new players so he could teach them to believe in his playing philosophy, which mean we should trade Fields.

2. Draft Caleb Williams as our #1 pick. I’ve watched many USC games, and in conclusion, CW does possess a quarterback vision. Fields lacks behind in this category. When we drafted Fields three years ago, I was elated; but three years later, I could see that Fields’ vision is short. Peoples kept on saying it was due to Getsy’s game plans, but I don’t think do. Sure, there’s a part of it due to Getsy’s plan, but others due to Fields’ lack of a quarterback vision.

3. Trade up to #2 by our #9 pick, 2024 2nd rd pick, 2025 2nd rd pick, and Justin Fields. Here, we draft Marvin Harrison, Jr.

With Caleb a quarterback and DJ and MHJ wide receivers, we will win a lot of games. We might even go to the playoff next year.

Three years already with disappointment, I just don’t want to go through another year finding excuses for Fields!

We all have expressed our desires what we want but what do you think Poles will do?

[Light63]

I think Pole will start fresh. When you have a “perhaps” generational quarterback in front of you and you have that draft pick and you don’t pick him, what would happen if Fields continues his short-vision quarterbacking and Caleb turns out to be like Strouds this year or even better? If I’m Pole, I will start fresh.

Boomer Esiason came out and said that he would feel very surprised should the Bears do not pick Caleb. The multi-talented quarterback is right in front of you whom you do not pick! And if he turns out to be generational, gosh, how would Bears fans feel! Ricky Spielman, the former Vikings GM will even pick Caleb over Peyton Manning for the reason of athleticism. Both have a great sense as pocket passer, but Caleb is much more athletic than Peyton, fluently avoiding defensive players. There was one play when the play was broken, and Caleb was trying to run upward. A defensive player went straight at him, and Caleb turned 360 to his right avoiding the defensive player and continued his forwarding motion to gain the first down. That move truly reminded me of Barry Sanders, and this 360 move was coming from a quarterback! Would you imagine if the Portland Trailblazers agreed to trade with the Bulls and gotten Michael Jordan while the Bulls got stuck with Sam Bowie!

Nagy is an offensive coordinator of KS, and Mahomes was still playing great! It is what it is. If I am Pole, I have no doubt to start fresh and pick Caleb. Then do the Adam trade to get MHJ. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

PFF Data (I get it - PFF) - Sorted for Fields:

 

Starting on Right Side: 

Basically - both our QB and Oline are pretty-bad.  So Non-QB pressure we rate poorly, but he is also really poor and creates his own "pressure".  Basically 7th worse in the league (is where Fields is) where as the oline is 9th worse.  yet the % that is OL responsibility is very favorable (how does that add up with being really bad at Non QB pressures).  The bright side is our LG (Jenkins) and RT (Wright) are good...the LT and RG are mediocre and center is bad (passes my eye test).  The % other responsibility is pretty massive - does that mean our RB's are terrible blockers or is that like not being set-up appropriately?  

Looking at the Left: 

Fields is good at maximizing time on the scramble - the next question is how effective is he actually making plays on the scramble (relative to expectation).  Clearly in side the pocket he is bad and this also highlights he does not throw into tight coverage.  On one hand - that should be good - fewer picks, downfall is, to win in this league you got to throw guys open and have conviction making tight window throws. Fields clearly doesn't have it.  And from an expected completion percentage - he flat out executes poorly.  Ranking 45th of QB's which is clearly AWFUL.  

Overall: I won't pretend to understand these metrics and have plenty of questions as outlined above.  But most of this data backs my eye test and tells me Fields just isn't a good QB (when I say QB - I'm not saying scrambler and athlete), I am saying good QB. Those things are nice - but 3 years in the league and the things that differentiate you most as a QB he is poor at.  It is pretty evident in my mind Bears are headed down a path where they are taking a QB with one of their 1st picks.  

[Light63]

If we go back and look at the USC games, you would find that even though Caleb was scrambling to avoid being sacked, his eyes were still looking down the field; that’s quarterback vision. Fields was just scrambling and not looking down the field. I went to a game at Soldier Field when Fields was being rushed by the defense. As customed, he scrambled and did not even see a wide-opened wide receiver to his left. The Bears could have an easy first down on that play. Fields is athletic, and other teams would love to have him. If the Commanders pick Maye, then we should trade with the Patriots to get MHJ. We would be set as a powerful offense for years.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

34 minutes ago, Light63 said:

If we go back and look at the USC games, you would find that even though Caleb was scrambling to avoid being sacked, his eyes were still looking down the field; that’s quarterback vision. Fields was just scrambling and not looking down the field. I went to a game at Soldier Field when Fields was being rushed by the defense. As customed, he scrambled and did not even see a wide-opened wide receiver to his left. The Bears could have an easy first down on that play. Fields is athletic, and other teams would love to have him. If the Commanders pick Maye, then we should trade with the Patriots to get MHJ. We would be set as a powerful offense for years.

 

I agree. I go back to - Caleb's film makes him a clear cut #1 in my opinion. He has his warts - he is a big game hunter, but he can throw guys open, etc, and he can make quick reads and target middle of the field, etc. He can also use his feet to create big game passing plays or be efficient in a scramble...but at all times his focus is on using his arm as a weapon and those eyes are everywhere.  Sometimes that means he gets a little reckless and gives up on an easy play to go big game hunting - but he is manipulating people with his eyes and making reads (that is where Fields goes bust).  He also will fumble too much - but I fully believe with NFL coaching and more focus, you can help coach the ball security and being more in rhythm, but you also can't ignore the fact that you will get plenty of good that will go with some of the bad (ala Mahomes or Favre or Josh Allen).  

His ability to make wtf plays with his arm (and in this case - incredible wtf plays) is also stellar.  

The only reason I'm not drafting Caleb - is if through deep interviews - there are concerns of who is his, whether work ethic, leadership, etc. If that is a problem - than that is a major red flag for QB.  But on the field - yeah - he's as no brainer as it gets in my mind.  

[Pixote]

9 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I agree. I go back to - Caleb's film makes him a clear cut #1 in my opinion. He has his warts - he is a big game hunter, but he can throw guys open, etc, and he can make quick reads and target middle of the field, etc. He can also use his feet to create big game passing plays or be efficient in a scramble...but at all times his focus is on using his arm as a weapon and those eyes are everywhere.  Sometimes that means he gets a little reckless and gives up on an easy play to go big game hunting - but he is manipulating people with his eyes and making reads (that is where Fields goes bust).  He also will fumble too much - but I fully believe with NFL coaching and more focus, you can help coach the ball security and being more in rhythm, but you also can't ignore the fact that you will get plenty of good that will go with some of the bad (ala Mahomes or Favre or Josh Allen).  

His ability to make wtf plays with his arm (and in this case - incredible wtf plays) is also stellar.  

The only reason I'm not drafting Caleb - is if through deep interviews - there are concerns of who is his, whether work ethic, leadership, etc. If that is a problem - than that is a major red flag for QB.  But on the field - yeah - he's as no brainer as it gets in my mind.  

It doesn't concern you about his performances against elite teams? I first noticed him when he played the team I follow, Notre Dame. He certainly didn't look like a generational QB in that game. In fact, if based on that game alone, I wouldn't waste a first round pick on him. Now, I am not saying he isn't a 1st round selection. But time and time again, he has underperformed in big games. That and the fact that he has been reported to say he doesn't want to play for the Bears bothers me. I was raised in lower Delaware where locals were Baltimore Colts fans. The Colts drafted Elway who refused to play for the Colts, resulting in him being traded to Denver. Caleb's statement about not wanting to play for the Bears raises bad memories for me.

 

[Pixote]

I'd love to see the splits on Caleb's stats. A comparison of his stats against top ranked teams vs. the teams that they always schedule against unranked teams to give their team an easier schedule. Same goes for Maye and Daniels. Fields' play in games where he "shined" were discounted by many because of the caliber of the teams his stats ranked high against. So if we are looking for his replacement, shouldn't we consider their splits as well? 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

PFF Data (I get it - PFF) - Sorted for Fields:

 

Starting on Right Side: 

Basically - both our QB and Oline are pretty-bad.  So Non-QB pressure we rate poorly, but he is also really poor and creates his own "pressure".  Basically 7th worse in the league (is where Fields is) where as the oline is 9th worse.  yet the % that is OL responsibility is very favorable (how does that add up with being really bad at Non QB pressures).  The bright side is our LG (Jenkins) and RT (Wright) are good...the LT and RG are mediocre and center is bad (passes my eye test).  The % other responsibility is pretty massive - does that mean our RB's are terrible blockers or is that like not being set-up appropriately?  

Looking at the Left: 

Fields is good at maximizing time on the scramble - the next question is how effective is he actually making plays on the scramble (relative to expectation).  Clearly in side the pocket he is bad and this also highlights he does not throw into tight coverage.  On one hand - that should be good - fewer picks, downfall is, to win in this league you got to throw guys open and have conviction making tight window throws. Fields clearly doesn't have it.  And from an expected completion percentage - he flat out executes poorly.  Ranking 45th of QB's which is clearly AWFUL.  

Overall: I won't pretend to understand these metrics and have plenty of questions as outlined above.  But most of this data backs my eye test and tells me Fields just isn't a good QB (when I say QB - I'm not saying scrambler and athlete), I am saying good QB. Those things are nice - but 3 years in the league and the things that differentiate you most as a QB he is poor at.  It is pretty evident in my mind Bears are headed down a path where they are taking a QB with one of their 1st picks.  

Question.  How do these metrics compare to players like Mahomes or Jackson?  What do you think are the contributing factors if they are dramatically diffferent?

Second question:  If Fields were to swap spots with either Mahomes or Jackson, how do you think the metrics would look in either scenario then?  
 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

6 minutes ago, Pixote said:

I'd love to see the splits on Caleb's stats. A comparison of his stats against top ranked teams vs. the teams that they always schedule against unranked teams to give their team an easier schedule. Same goes for Maye and Daniels. Fields' play in games where he "shined" were discounted by many because of the caliber of the teams his stats ranked high against. So if we are looking for his replacement, shouldn't we consider their splits as well? 

Same.  My concerns about how Williams withers against more solid competition is concerning.   
 

And with regards to character, before the national championship game the other night Penix was regarded a ‘high round’ talent.  But after his performance many are saying his stock is tumbling.  What did Williams do in his final game with USC in their bowl game?  He sat out.  And his backup scored 6 TDs.  Now convince me again how Williams is a “can’t miss”?  
 

Oh and I might add, I’d take Penix over Williams any given day just soley based on his gritty play that night.  

[jason]

2 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

PFF Data (I get it - PFF) - Sorted for Fields:

Starting on Right Side: 

Basically - both our QB and Oline are pretty-bad.  So Non-QB pressure we rate poorly, but he is also really poor and creates his own "pressure".  Basically 7th worse in the league (is where Fields is) where as the oline is 9th worse.  yet the % that is OL responsibility is very favorable (how does that add up with being really bad at Non QB pressures).  The bright side is our LG (Jenkins) and RT (Wright) are good...the LT and RG are mediocre and center is bad (passes my eye test).  The % other responsibility is pretty massive - does that mean our RB's are terrible blockers or is that like not being set-up appropriately?  

Looking at the Left: 

Fields is good at maximizing time on the scramble - the next question is how effective is he actually making plays on the scramble (relative to expectation).  Clearly in side the pocket he is bad and this also highlights he does not throw into tight coverage.  On one hand - that should be good - fewer picks, downfall is, to win in this league you got to throw guys open and have conviction making tight window throws. Fields clearly doesn't have it.  And from an expected completion percentage - he flat out executes poorly.  Ranking 45th of QB's which is clearly AWFUL.  

Overall: I won't pretend to understand these metrics and have plenty of questions as outlined above.  But most of this data backs my eye test and tells me Fields just isn't a good QB (when I say QB - I'm not saying scrambler and athlete), I am saying good QB. Those things are nice - but 3 years in the league and the things that differentiate you most as a QB he is poor at.  It is pretty evident in my mind Bears are headed down a path where they are taking a QB with one of their 1st picks.  

Noting the PFF source is worth triple highlighting. Their stats are steaming dumpster juice as we all have discussed numerous times. I didn't even want to quote reply and leave their data in there.

My eye test says the OL isn't very good and the Bears only have one quality WR on the roster.

Having said that, I honestly think the stats are deceiving for Fields. It seems like every other play one of the linemen take their turn sucking and letting a guy fly right through. So, that probably makes the Fields stats amplified towards the negative because he's never comfortable. And when they're not rotating being horrible, the pocket collapses faster that that submersible that went to visit the Titanic. (too soon?)

Do I think Fields is Peyton Manning? But I think he's a top-10 QB if the Bears ever sorted out out how to protect him, game plan to take advantage of his strengths, and have NFL-caliber talent to catch the ball.