QB thread

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, adam said:

My only concern is that the offense reverted back to the same offense that we saw for a few games last year that made us all hopeful. However, it was the unsustainable offensive model that had Fields running 20 times a game. 

Before the injury he had his first 300 yard passing game against DEN, then the 282 passing game with 57 rushing yards against WAS. Both games with 4 TDs. That is what everyone was waiting for. Then he looked lost against MIN before getting hurt.

Then against DET, he passed for 169 yards and rushed for 104. So 273 passing+rushing yards. We can pass it off as it was injury related, but that was the same thing they did last year, which had some great highlights, but never seemed like a sustainable model.

I would rather he be over 250 yards passing and under 50 yards rushing every game.  The Bears are 0-4 when he rushes for 100+ yards.

The offense will not be the 18 carries a game but to keep him 8-10 a game is doable . That was his first game back and I think they  wanted to see how he handled the ball in the game. He took more shots sitting in the pocket than when he ran. Lets see how it breaks down going forward. I agree 18 carries a game will end up with more missed time.  The ideal offense will be as you stated. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I’ve made my decision. I like Fields but if Bears have top pick I’m taking Williams and than trading down a bit with the other pick (ideally getting a future 1st in the process). I’ll than deal Fields. 
 

Caleb is experienced and throws dimes and has basically carried his team for two years. He isn’t super tall but he’s thick and athletic and that accuracy is elite. If Fields was in year 2 I would stick with him, but to start the clock over with an elite qb talent on a rookie contract is way too good to pass up on. I would than sign Higgins. 
 

I will notate the only other consideration I would have is moving down and getting Harrison jr and sticking with Fields but he has to basically play like he did in 3 of last 4 from here on out. Even than man, passing on him when you basically have to pay Fields big money after next year is tough. 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I will notate the only other consideration I would have is moving down and getting Harrison jr and sticking with Fields but he has to basically play like he did in 3 of last 4 from here on out. Even than man, passing on him when you basically have to pay Fields big money after next year is tough. 

I think you can also take MHJr at #1 and then get one of the top QBs at 4 or 5?

[ASHKUM BEAR]

5 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think you can also take MHJr at #1 and then get one of the top QBs at 4 or 5?

I would rather see a trade down so they get a future first.  Take McCarthy or Daniel's with a later pick.  If they miss on MJH, take Bowers.  Fields has shown small incremental improvements as he should. I am good keeping him another year or.two, but bring in competition 

[Stinger226]

If we miss out on MHJ there are several other good WRs in this draft. If trading down gets us a goldmine, we may miss out on Harrison. Coleman and Nabers are top 10 rated prospects. I think the top 2 prizes in this draft are MHJ and Bowers. We need to get one of them. It would make our offense much more dynamic, no matter who the QB is. How would that workout if we got both. I do think if they pass on a QB with a first round pick, they probably draft an edge or 3 T. Those are pieces we are missing on defense to make it a top ten D.

[adam]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

If we miss out on MHJ there are several other good WRs in this draft. If trading down gets us a goldmine, we may miss out on Harrison. Coleman and Nabers are top 10 rated prospects. I think the top 2 prizes in this draft are MHJ and Bowers. We need to get one of them. It would make our offense much more dynamic, no matter who the QB is. How would that workout if we got both. I do think if they pass on a QB with a first round pick, they probably draft an edge or 3 T. Those are pieces we are missing on defense to make it a top ten D.

Which combo would be better:

A. Moore, Nabers/Coleman, and Brock Bowers?

B. Moore, MHJ, and Ja'Tavion Sanders?

or

C. Moore, Nabers/Coleman, and Jer'Zhan Newton?

[Stinger226]

20 minutes ago, adam said:

Which combo would be better:

A. Moore, Nabers/Coleman, and Brock Bowers?

B. Moore, MHJ, and Ja'Tavion Sanders?

or

C. Moore, Nabers/Coleman, and Jer'Zhan Newton?

I prefer B but probably C is more realistic. I think 1 pick will be between 3T or edge. He's building both the O and the D at the same time. The hook is will he take MHJ, I would not sure he will.

[BearFan PHX]

9 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I would rather see a trade down so they get a future first.  Take McCarthy or Daniel's with a later pick.  If they miss on MJH, take Bowers.  Fields has shown small incremental improvements as he should. I am good keeping him another year or.two, but bring in competition 

I like McCarthy and Daniels, but by the time all the draft hype is done, I wonder if either of them slips past, say, pick 15.

[Pixote]

After watching the game last night with Daniels going 16/24 for 235 yds., 4 TDs and 120 yds. rushing, I am a true believer. LOL. (According the the broadcasters, he averages over 400 total yds. per game, so he had an off night. ? )

I agree that he will climb up the boards and be a top 10 pick. Too many teams needing a QB to ignore a guy who has put up tremendous numbers throughout his career. 

[BearFan PHX]

13 minutes ago, Pixote said:

After watching the game last night with Daniels going 16/24 for 235 yds., 4 TDs and 120 yds. rushing, I am a true believer. LOL. (According the the broadcasters, he averages over 400 total yds. per game, so he had an off night. ? )

I agree that he will climb up the boards and be a top 10 pick. Too many teams needing a QB to ignore a guy who has put up tremendous numbers throughout his career. 

It's a great year for QBs, and they all come cheap for 4 to 5 years.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

17 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

It's a great year for QBs, and they all come cheap for 4 to 5 years.

This is really why I am interested in taking a QB with our top pick (or worse case one of our top 2 picks).  I actually think Fields if he stays, would turn into the best QB the Bears have had in my lifetime and probably the best QB in franchise history. With that said - that doesn't say a lot, and with the amount of money a QB gets, you are going to pay Fields very close to Patrick Mahomes type of money....but I don't think is a Patrick Mahomes type of QB.  I do think Fields trajectory will have him as a 7-15 QB over his career.  But all QB's these days get paid Top 3 money due to the economics and a franchise paying a #10 QB that type of money can be a really big mistake that leaves you kind of stuck in a middling position. 

On the inverse - starting the clock over, you end up getting a young QB and putting them into a pretty good position.  The young QB may have the same ending trajectory (i.e., they will be #7-#15 type of QB) - however, you have 4-5 years where they cost you a ton less money, so you can literally surround said player with 2 more blue chip players for that window.  The whole dynamics in the NFL are really hard - cause 10 years ago (heck even 5 years ago), I would have been fully on board with moving the pick and sticking with Fields for at least another couple of years.  

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

This is really why I am interested in taking a QB with our top pick (or worse case one of our top 2 picks).  I actually think Fields if he stays, would turn into the best QB the Bears have had in my lifetime and probably the best QB in franchise history. With that said - that doesn't say a lot, and with the amount of money a QB gets, you are going to pay Fields very close to Patrick Mahomes type of money....but I don't think is a Patrick Mahomes type of QB.  I do think Fields trajectory will have him as a 7-15 QB over his career.  But all QB's these days get paid Top 3 money due to the economics and a franchise paying a #10 QB that type of money can be a really big mistake that leaves you kind of stuck in a middling position. 

On the inverse - starting the clock over, you end up getting a young QB and putting them into a pretty good position.  The young QB may have the same ending trajectory (i.e., they will be #7-#15 type of QB) - however, you have 4-5 years where they cost you a ton less money, so you can literally surround said player with 2 more blue chip players for that window.  The whole dynamics in the NFL are really hard - cause 10 years ago (heck even 5 years ago), I would have been fully on board with moving the pick and sticking with Fields for at least another couple of years.  

I agree with all of this.

Fields has his place in the NFL, but he isn't a franchise QB that will win a Super Bowl. he's not worth what we'd have to pay him, and aiming at a 9-8 season as your goal is ridiculous.

People see his big plays and that he IS improving, and I agree, but I think the ceiling on this guy falls short of being a Super Bowl winner. And that's what this is all about.

I feel the same way about Eberflus' defense. If we increase the talent a bit more and really play hard, that scheme can elevate to 10th best or something. And as youre going from 30 to 28 to 24, you feel the upward trend. But you gotta look at it and ask what the ceiling is. We can make steady progress to 10th best and then stall out there? Again, not a plan.

So I fully validate Fields' freakish athleticism, and the steady increase in his play (nowhere to go but up!) but he still isnt winning games, and the ceiling isnt worth the growing pains, the cap space and perhaps worst of all - the opportunity to draft one of these other guys and develop them.

And I guess at some point everyone has to decide whether they are a fan of the player or the team. Clearly DABEARS, from what youve written here, its the team for you. Me too.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

11 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I agree with all of this.

Fields has his place in the NFL, but he isn't a franchise QB that will win a Super Bowl. he's not worth what we'd have to pay him, and aiming at a 9-8 season as your goal is ridiculous.

People see his big plays and that he IS improving, and I agree, but I think the ceiling on this guy falls short of being a Super Bowl winner. And that's what this is all about.

I feel the same way about Eberflus' defense. If we increase the talent a bit more and really play hard, that scheme can elevate to 10th best or something. And as youre going from 30 to 28 to 24, you feel the upward trend. But you gotta look at it and ask what the ceiling is. We can make steady progress to 10th best and then stall out there? Again, not a plan.

So I fully validate Fields' freakish athleticism, and the steady increase in his play (nowhere to go but up!) but he still isnt winning games, and the ceiling isnt worth the growing pains, the cap space and perhaps worst of all - the opportunity to draft one of these other guys and develop them.

And I guess at some point everyone has to decide whether they are a fan of the player or the team. Clearly DABEARS, from what youve written here, its the team for you. Me too.

100 percent. The inverse in me says…what if this team didn’t have two historic blown games (Denver and Detroit).

In that scenario - the narrative around tonights game would be this is a team that is 5-6, having won 5 of their last 8 with Fields having played 3 out of 4 of those games in an impressive fashion (Denver / Washington / Lions) with one clunker in between vs the Vikings (it happens). 
 

The crazy thing is - the team is closer to be above narrative than the 3-8 dumpster fire narrative and if they somehow won 4/5 games to finish season than you could really see reasons to stick the course for at least one more year  (at least with Yields).
 

Now someone might say well Fields is why they lost those two games but I don’t really think he was. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

15 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I agree with all of this.

Fields has his place in the NFL, but he isn't a franchise QB that will win a Super Bowl. he's not worth what we'd have to pay him, and aiming at a 9-8 season as your goal is ridiculous.

People see his big plays and that he IS improving, and I agree, but I think the ceiling on this guy falls short of being a Super Bowl winner. And that's what this is all about.

I feel the same way about Eberflus' defense. If we increase the talent a bit more and really play hard, that scheme can elevate to 10th best or something. And as youre going from 30 to 28 to 24, you feel the upward trend. But you gotta look at it and ask what the ceiling is. We can make steady progress to 10th best and then stall out there? Again, not a plan.

So I fully validate Fields' freakish athleticism, and the steady increase in his play (nowhere to go but up!) but he still isnt winning games, and the ceiling isnt worth the growing pains, the cap space and perhaps worst of all - the opportunity to draft one of these other guys and develop them.

And I guess at some point everyone has to decide whether they are a fan of the player or the team. Clearly DABEARS, from what youve written here, its the team for you. Me too.

Also - we are pretty aligned, but the question is not whether Fields can be Brady or Brees…it is could he be like Big Ben or Josh Allen. Allen is probably not as good of a comparison cause he has no rings…but neither of them are guys who excelled in the traditional sense but their other outstanding physical abilities made them great to elite at what they did. 

[Mongo3451]

I was thinking of Allen the other way.  He runs well and has a better arm and quicker release than Fields.  Yet he is 6-6 this year.  He is Fields ceiling, IMO.  

[adam]

15 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I was thinking of Allen the other way.  He runs well and has a better arm and quicker release than Fields.  Yet he is 6-6 this year.  He is Fields ceiling, IMO.  

Ironically, Allen, Hurts and Fields have a very similar QB Rating: 95.8, 94.9, and 93.3 respectively (good for 11th, 12th, and 13th in the NFL this year). They are also very similar in Y/A, Hurts 7.5, Fields and Allen 7.4. Additionally, Hurts has 410 rushing yards, Allen has 342 and Fields has 341 (in 7g). 

Interestingly enough, Allen leads the NFL with 13 INTs (12g), Hurts has 10 (11g), and Fields has 6 (7g), so the rates (per game) are fairly the same as well.

Outside of passing volume, one glaring difference, both BUF and PHI use their QBs as runners in the RZ.  Hurts has 11 Rushing TDs, Allen has 9, and Fields has 1. Out of all the other stats, that one may be the biggest difference overall.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

2 minutes ago, adam said:

Ironically, Allen, Hurts and Fields have a very similar QB Rating: 95.8, 94.9, and 93.3 respectively (good for 11th, 12th, and 13th in the NFL this year). They are also very similar in Y/A, Hurts 7.5, Fields and Allen 7.4. Additionally, Hurts has 410 rushing yards, Allen has 342 and Fields has 341 (in 7g). 

Interestingly enough, Allen leads the NFL with 13 INTs (12g), Hurts has 10 (11g), and Fields has 6 (7g), so the rates (per game) are fairly the same as well.

Outside of passing volume, one glaring difference, both BUF and PHI use their QBs as runners in the RZ.  Hurts has 11 Rushing TDs, Allen has 9, and Fields has 1. Out of all the other stats, that one may be the biggest difference overall.

Allen and Hurts are also #1 and #2 in TD's (Combined Passing and Rushing) with 33 and 29 respectively. Allen leads in passing TD's and I believe is 2nd in rushing TD's. 

[adam]

3 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Allen and Hurts are also #1 and #2 in TD's (Combined Passing and Rushing) with 33 and 29 respectively. Allen leads in passing TD's and I believe is 2nd in rushing TD's. 

and Fields leads the NFL in TD% at 6.5%, Allen is at 5.5% (7th), and Hurts at 5.0% (10th). 

[adam]

There is one QB in the NFL that averages over 300 yards per game for passing+rushing yards. Stroud at 309.

Of the notable QBs linked to Fields, Allen is at 293, Hurts at 282, Lawrence at 272, and Jackson at 266. Fields is at 245, but that does count the game he left early. So he would probably be slightly over 250 if he finished that game. 

He had 273 against the Lions, 339 against the Commanders and 360 against the Broncos (3 out of the last 4 games). So he is trending up. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

14 minutes ago, adam said:

Hurts has 11 Rushing TDs, Allen has 9, and Fields has 1. Out of all the other stats, that one may be the biggest difference overall.

But we don't want him to be a rushing QB.  ? 

So this isn't a real surprise...right?

[killakrzydav]

Carson Beck is flying up the draft boards

[Stinger226]

29 minutes ago, killakrzydav said:

Carson Beck is flying up the draft boards

When you see people mention QBs , no one ever mentions Beck. He has size accuracy but probably because this is his first year starting. 

[Mongo3451]

59 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

But we don't want him to be a rushing QB.  ? 

So this isn't a real surprise...right?

No drinking and posting AK.  We all want him to use his legs.  We just don't want it to be his one good trick.  Bear down!  ?

[killakrzydav]

My favorite two qbs are Daniels and Penix. Beck is growing on me big time. Caleb has real fumble issues. I’d like to know his hands size. I’ve been trading to two and taking MHJ and then trading the other for more picks. Ideally having MHJ and 5 to six more top fifty selections is ideal

[Stinger226]

5 minutes ago, killakrzydav said:

My favorite two qbs are Daniels and Penix. Beck is growing on me big time. Caleb has real fumble issues. I’d like to know his hands size. I’ve been trading to two and taking MHJ and then trading the other for more picks. Ideally having MHJ and 5 to six more top fifty selections is ideal

You haven't been posting your 50 drafts a day lately. I'm down to 10 A day.