Draft land

[adam]

2 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I have no clue what you are talking about...?

Nice one Mongo. 

[BearFan PHX]

46 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Forget my opinion, Im just a fan but  I can send you many ex QBs analyzing his play that raved about his last game. Chase Daniels, Tim Lewis . JT Sullivan. They were QBs and played in the league . They disagree with you, its not just me.

 

Dude, youre wrong. 16 points! And they LOST. I'm done fighting with you - youre ignorant. Youre a homer in love with everyone on the roster, and as such youre a loser too. In the sense that your guy cant win any games.

Even JT Osullivan pointed out that on the scramble when Fields hit Moore, he missed his first read, Mooney for a big gain. What they are saying is that hes making plays when the plays break down. I see that too - I give Fields his props for that. Now I ask - who the hell wants an offense BASED on what the player does after the play breaks? What the hell is that?!

I dont care what your experts think either. I have eyes, and I see what I see. And I'll bet you the people who have to live and die by the decision, Poles and Warren see it too. The guy has won like 3 games in two years. What the hell are you even talking about? He's TERRIBLE. He makes great plays here and there, but he is not a QB who moves the chains running the plays as designed, making reads. Hes just an amazing freak athlete that has never learned how to be a disciplined passer.

When they trade Fields this offseason, then all your "experts" etc will have been proven wrong.

I dont mind that youre wrong though, people can disagree with respect about sports - its just what an asshole you are about it. I've been sitting back with the personal stuff while you take little impudent shots like a child. So like I said, Im not doing that anymore.

I am sorry if I'm hurting your feelings criticizing your girlfriends. Get a helmet and deal with it ya big baby.

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

CJ Stroud proved there was a starting QB available at the top of the draft.  Carolina just chose poorly.  

 

18 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

 

I have no clue what you are talking about...?

 

agree with ya both, and adam too.

It's not like this is July 2023 - we've seen what we've seen now.

The only way we can even make any kind of offense with Fields is having a ton of designed QB runs.

It's a joke.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Dude, youre wrong. 16 points! And they LOST. I'm done fighting with you - youre ignorant. Youre a homer in love with everyone on the roster, and as such youre a loser too. In the sense that your guy cant win any games.

Even JT Osullivan pointed out that on the scramble when Fields hit Moore, he missed his first read, Mooney for a big gain. What they are saying is that hes making plays when the plays break down. I see that too - I give Fields his props for that. Now I ask - who the hell wants an offense BASED on what the player does after the play breaks? What the hell is that?!

I dont care what your experts think either. I have eyes, and I see what I see. And I'll bet you the people who have to live and die by the decision, Poles and Warren see it too. The guy has won like 3 games in two years. What the hell are you even talking about? He's TERRIBLE. He makes great plays here and there, but he is not a QB who moves the chains running the plays as designed, making reads. Hes just an amazing freak athlete that has never learned how to be a disciplined passer.

When they trade Fields this offseason, then all your "experts" etc will have been proven wrong.

I dont mind that youre wrong though, people can disagree with respect about sports - its just what an asshole you are about it. I've been sitting back with the personal stuff while you take little impudent shots like a child. So like I said, Im not doing that anymore.

I am sorry if I'm hurting your feelings criticizing your girlfriends. Get a helmet and deal with it ya big baby.

Discussions only turns into fights when you start name calling. For some reason, everyone has to agree with you , I give you other peoples opinions and you go ballistic.  Every time you point something out I disagree with I will make  a point but Im not calling you stupid. I get it your an asshole, now start your( Im innocent ) in this conflict because I dont really give a flying F what you think.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Discussions only turns into fights when you start name calling. For some reason, everyone has to agree with you , I give you other peoples opinions and you go ballistic.  Every time you point something out I disagree with I will make  a point but Im not calling you stupid. I get it your an asshole, now start your( Im innocent ) in this conflict because I dont really give a flying F what you think.

Wah. lol

[Stinger226]

This is a top 100 draft list by some respected football people.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10098827-2024-nfl-draft-big-board-br-nfl-scouting-depts-latest-top-100-player-rankings

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

This is a top 100 draft list by some respected football people.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10098827-2024-nfl-draft-big-board-br-nfl-scouting-depts-latest-top-100-player-rankings

FWIW I'm still baffled by the love for Maye and Williams.  I get that they (maybe) improve their respective teams but neither UNC (8-4) nor USC (7-5) are in contention for any CFB playoff spots let alone playing for contention of either the ACC or PAC-12.  

As of late it seems the luster has worn off of Williams a little bit and more are questioning his leadership and tenacity traits.  And others (some here on this board) have started to note that he possesses a lot of the similar (negative) traits that Fields has.  For Chicago, would we still even want to be a part of that discussion?  

With Maye I understand that he's being coached by the great Mack Brown.  But recent history shows of the QB's Brown has coached that went into the NFL were the likes of Vince Young, Colt McCoy, Major Applewhite, Chris Simms and more recently Sam Howell.  And even though Howell looks like he might be a serviceable NFL QB, he was drafted in the 5th round by Washington.  So far in the little bit of games I watched with Maye playing I still haven't seen anything that pops out to me to say 'yeah he's the ONE Chicago needs.'. 

[adam]

1 minute ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

FWIW I'm still baffled by the love for Maye and Williams.  I get that they (maybe) improve their respective teams but neither UNC (8-4) nor USC (7-5) are in contention for any CFB playoff spots let alone playing for contention of either the ACC or PAC-12.  

As of late it seems the luster has worn off of Williams a little bit and more are questioning his leadership and tenacity traits.  And others (some here on this board) have started to note that he possesses a lot of the similar (negative) traits that Fields has.  For Chicago, would we still even want to be a part of that discussion?  

With Maye I understand that he's being coached by the great Mack Brown.  But recent history shows of the QB's Brown has coached that went into the NFL were the likes of Vince Young, Colt McCoy, Major Applewhite, Chris Simms and more recently Sam Howell.  And even though Howell looks like he might be a serviceable NFL QB, he was drafted in the 5th round by Washington.  So far in the little bit of games I watched with Maye playing I still haven't seen anything that pops out to me to say 'yeah he's the ONE Chicago needs.'. 

Outside of some red flags with Williams character, I am worried about his size, 6'1" is on the small side for QBs nowadays. Maye is at least 6'4", but neither have really impressed of late. If anyone, Penix and Daniels have been really impressive.

[adam]

NYJ does not have a 2nd round pick. If there were looking to move up to #1, I don't know if they are a fit for the Bears as I assumed that Poles would like to get his 2nd round pick back. 

ARZ has their pick and HOU's pick in the 1st. It would be nice for them to move up to #1 and give up both 1st's in lieu of giving up a 2025 1st. So the Bears could conceivably trade back from 1 to get #3, #6 (own pick), and #17 while adding an early 2nd rounder back into the mix. 4 picks in the top 35.

ARZ has a haul picks to use or trade: (2x 1st, 2x 3rd, 2x 4th, 2x 5th)

I would hate to trade with NE as they always seem to screw teams over. 

Other potential trade partners would be TB, NYJ, LVR, NO, and LAR. 

[OmahaBear]

I think the Bears surprise everyone and take Jayden Daniels at QB.  Because it's the Bears... 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

8 minutes ago, OmahaBear said:

I think the Bears surprise everyone and take Jayden Daniels at QB.  Because it's the Bears... 

Ha, was just about to respond to Adam and say I had no clue who he was until recently.  I see that he's been in the talk for the Heisman recently but is that because someone like Williams has dropped out and afforded a spot for him?  And I can't help but notice he looks to be a fifth year senior so no wonder his stats are improving (sorry that may be a bit facetious on my part).  I will give him that he does play in the SEC for LSU so that is something to take note of. 

With regards to Penix, again I literally know very little about him.  But his team is in the top 4 in the nation so there is something to be said about that and I will be curious to see how he performs in the CFB playoffs.  I just noticed that he's a sixth year senior... ?!?!

What's up with that?  I was listening to LeBetard and Stugotz this morning and they got to talking about Maryland QB Taulia Tagovailoa (Tua's little brother) and how he's considering requesting for a sixth year of eligibility.  When did that start to be come a thing?  Any relation to the creation of the NIL rules?  

[adam]

32 minutes ago, OmahaBear said:

I think the Bears surprise everyone and take Jayden Daniels at QB.  Because it's the Bears... 

Riley Leonard?

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

FWIW I'm still baffled by the love for Maye and Williams.  I get that they (maybe) improve their respective teams but neither UNC (8-4) nor USC (7-5) are in contention for any CFB playoff spots let alone playing for contention of either the ACC or PAC-12.  

As of late it seems the luster has worn off of Williams a little bit and more are questioning his leadership and tenacity traits.  And others (some here on this board) have started to note that he possesses a lot of the similar (negative) traits that Fields has.  For Chicago, would we still even want to be a part of that discussion?  

With Maye I understand that he's being coached by the great Mack Brown.  But recent history shows of the QB's Brown has coached that went into the NFL were the likes of Vince Young, Colt McCoy, Major Applewhite, Chris Simms and more recently Sam Howell.  And even though Howell looks like he might be a serviceable NFL QB, he was drafted in the 5th round by Washington.  So far in the little bit of games I watched with Maye playing I still haven't seen anything that pops out to me to say 'yeah he's the ONE Chicago needs.'. 

Unless you're really stuck on MHJr with the first pick, I can see us trading one or both down for a haul. Of course you know I think we NEED a QB, but I have the same doubts about Williams. 6' 1", talking about which teams he will or wont play for, and a similar set of questions that Fields has too.

DIsclaimer: I haven't watched enough film yet for any of these opinions. I usually do that leading up to the draft when more is available online to see.

I like Daniels. I like McCarthy. I might like Maye or even Williams as I dig deeper. I might like Penix. The point is, I bet we could still get a good QB pick at #10 or something.

I'm factoring into this that no one knows how any of these guys will do in the NFL, so you might as well trade down and pick a little blind from your first tier of players. This year it looks like there should be 3 or 4 after the scouts do their jobs that could be good enough to make that first tier. I wouldnt necessarily be willing to pay an extra first round pick (i.e. not trading down, so losing that extra pick) to make my choice from among those three or four. Better to fill out the roster and let that QB from the first tier fall to us around 10 or however low you think we can go and still get one of the 3 or 4 that grade out first tier?

[BearFan PHX]

Since Chase Daniel has been invoked as a guy who played in the league and supports Fields, here he is today, speaking on Fields. Giving his opinion that the Bears should keep him, and the headline is "Chase Daniel believes Justin Fields should be Bears' QB1 in 2024"

And what he says is "I do think with the right people around him Justin can be elite. I dont know if hes ever gonna be a top 5 QB in the league, and quite honestly i dont know if you need that"

So Daniels isnt evidence of a guy who played QB in the league that sees greatness in Fields, hes a guy who played QB in the league that believes you dont need a top 5 QB to be elite.

Back in the day, this was very true. You could build a defense, and surround a Trent Dilfer or Jeff Hostetler with talent and win games with complementary football. But in todays passing league, I dont believe you can go all the way without a top 5 QB.

So maybe this is the crux of the disagreements here - not that Fields will be dominant, but that some think you can build around him and win without him being top 5. I don't see that at all. I think people see incremental progress from Fields and the defense and assume that it will keep going like that until they are great. But to me that approach has a ceiling, and will never consistently beat the good teams in the league. So I dont want to build a team that way, even if they could go to 10th best team in the league on that path. Chicago has been donw that road many times before.

I think you need to be looking for a Super Bowl winner, and pass anything up that cant get you there.

Also, you might wonder about the word elite. How is a QB that isnt in the top 5 elite?

And maybe this is a cheap shot, but Daniels was never considered to have top 5 QB skills, so maybe he bought 100% into the team concept of having the QB just good enough to win with the rest of the guys? Maybe thats just his core philosophy.

But either way, using Daniels as evidence that guys who know think Justin has it, is a little flawed since he says he doesnt know if Justin will ever be top 5 in his opinion. And he didnt say it like its an unknown, we all know everything in the future is an unknown, he said it like he doesnt predict it.

Time stamped to begin at the right place:
 

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Since Chase Daniel has been invoked as a guy who played in the league and supports Fields, here he is today, speaking on Fields. Giving his opinion that the Bears should keep him, and the headline is "Chase Daniel believes Justin Fields should be Bears' QB1 in 2024"

And what he says is "I do think with the right people around him Justin can be elite. I dont know if hes ever gonna be a top 5 QB in the league, and quite honestly i dont know if you need that"

So Daniels isnt evidence of a guy who played QB in the league that sees greatness in Fields, hes a guy who played QB in the league that believes you dont need a top 5 QB to be elite.

Back in the day, this was very true. You could build a defense, and surround a Trent Dilfer or Jeff Hostetler with talent and win games with complementary football. But in todays passing league, I dont believe you can go all the way without a top 5 QB.

So maybe this is the crux of the disagreements here - not that Fields will be dominant, but that some think you can build around him and win without him being top 5. I don't see that at all. I think people see incremental progress from Fields and the defense and assume that it will keep going like that until they are great. But to me that approach has a ceiling, and will never consistently beat the good teams in the league. So I dont want to build a team that way, even if they could go to 10th best team in the league on that path. Chicago has been donw that road many times before.

I think you need to be looking for a Super Bowl winner, and pass anything up that cant get you there.

Also, you might wonder about the word elite. How is a QB that isnt in the top 5 elite?

And maybe this is a cheap shot, but Daniels was never considered to have top 5 QB skills, so maybe he bought 100% into the team concept of having the QB just good enough to win with the rest of the guys? Maybe thats just his core philosophy.

But either way, using Daniels as evidence that guys who know think Justin has it, is a little flawed since he says he doesnt know if Justin will ever be top 5 in his opinion. And he didnt say it like its an unknown, we all know everything in the future is an unknown, he said it like he doesnt predict it.

Time stamped to begin at the right place:
 

 

I think there are many fans that feel this way.  We still have games to see, but they should lean on him for the 2024 season as of now.  If they can pull off another trade for the first pick, if they get it, they can add to the ascending talent and have two firsts with one that should be a top 5 or better with who they trade with.  Like Chase said, If Carolina played well, would we even be considering this.  

[Mongo3451]

17 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I think there are many fans that feel this way.  We still have games to see, but they should lean on him for the 2024 season as of now.  If they can pull off another trade for the first pick, if they get it, they can add to the ascending talent and have two firsts with one that should be a top 5 or better with who they trade with.  Like Chase said, If Carolina played well, would we even be considering this.  

Aikman is not convinced.  He said as much during the broadcast and on PTI.

[BearFan PHX]

Justin has all the physical tools and then some. But he doesnt read defenses. So you cant build around a guy like that.

[Stinger226]

14 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Aikman is not convinced.  He said as much during the broadcast and on PTI.

Aikman for the first time questioned the moving on from Fields. If you listened to him earlier in the season, he was totally (move on).  But like many former players, he seen some good in Justin . Can players get better? The answer to that is yes. 

[Mongo3451]

44 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Aikman for the first time questioned the moving on from Fields. If you listened to him earlier in the season, he was totally (move on).  But like many former players, he seen some good in Justin . Can players get better? The answer to that is yes. 

He was non-committal on both instances, I mentioned, within this week.

[Stinger226]

5 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

He was non-committal on both instances, I mentioned, within this week.

He was just on the SCORE and repeated everything I stated . His biggest attribute is he sees him  getting better which is all my point was anyways. He never did say he  was totally all in on him. 

[Mongo3451]

19 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

He was just on the SCORE and repeated everything I stated . His biggest attribute is he sees him  getting better which is all my point was anyways. He never did say he  was totally all in on him. 

Huge difference in stating that someone is getting better vs he's the man.  Aikman did not endorse, but only suggested improvement.  That was theb entire beginning point of our convo.  None of us were commenting on if Justin was getting better.  We're all concerned with if he is getting better, fast enough, to ever be the guy.  

[Stinger226]

9 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Huge difference in stating that someone is getting better vs he's the man.  Aikman did not endorse, but only suggested improvement.  That was theb entire beginning point of our convo.  None of us were commenting on if Justin was getting better.  We're all concerned with if he is getting better, fast enough, to ever be the guy.  

I dont think I said he said (he's the man) just that he is playing better. 

[Mongo3451]

17 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I dont think I said he said (he's the man) just that he is playing better. 

I know you didn't.  Not the point.  I brought up Aikman saying, non committal.  Then, you brought where he was just complimenting his improvement.  So, I clarified.  Then you rebutted.  So, I again clarified.  Now, I'm clarifying again.

I know you and I agree on most everything.  Sometimes it's verbal semantics...?

[Stinger226]

6 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I know you didn't.  Not the point.  I brought up Aikman saying, non committal.  Then, you brought where he was just complimenting his improvement.  So, I clarified.  Then you rebutted.  So, I again clarified.  Now, I'm clarifying again.

I know you and I agree on most everything.  Sometimes it's verbal semantics...?

 

[adam]

13 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I dont think I said he said (he's the man) just that he is playing better. 

This made me think of this song for some reason: