Week 13 Bye Week Open Thread

[adam]

Even with the Bears off, CAR plays TB, NE plays LAC, and NYJ plays ATL. 3 games with draft implications. CAR loss to TB solidifies the #1 pick while also helping with the Bears pick (TB gets another win). NE winning would be huge for the Bears, but even if LAC wins, that keeps the Bears actual pick in the top 8. An NYJ win would keep the Bears in the top 7. So if TB beats CAR, NYJ beats ATL, and LAC beats NE, the Bears would have a great shot at a top 6 pick. 

For the "in the hunt" crowd: SEA (6-5) is at DAL, GB (5-6) is playing KC, LAR (5-6) is playing CLE, and NO (5-6) is playing DET. So there is a chance that every team ahead of the Bears in the playoff picture that is playing could lose. 

[Stinger226]

Whether here or not, I liked this.

 

[killakrzydav]

Like it as well

[adam]

DJ probably won't get the Bears single season records for receptions or yards, but he is right there for 2nd in both categories.

Marshall has 118-1508 as the franchise single season leader. #2 in receptions is Allen Robinson with 102, and Alshon with 1421 yards.

Moore is on pace for 99-1420, however, that is based on averages and he got the ball less with Bagent. So if he trends slightly higher, he could finish with over 100 catches and 1470 yards. 

[BearFan PHX]

13 minutes ago, adam said:

DJ probably won't get the Bears single season records for receptions or yards, but he is right there for 2nd in both categories.

Marshall has 118-1508 as the franchise single season leader. #2 in receptions is Allen Robinson with 102, and Alshon with 1421 yards.

Moore is on pace for 99-1420, however, that is based on averages and he got the ball less with Bagent. So if he trends slightly higher, he could finish with over 100 catches and 1470 yards. 

amazing that he did that in this context too. He is an extremely underrated player, even with all his accolades.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Whether here or not, I liked this.

 

He (Fields) ain’t going anywhere. 

[adam]

2 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

amazing that he did that in this context too. He is an extremely underrated player, even with all his accolades.

What is crazy is his YAC. He is 2nd in the NFL with 440 YAC, with Tyreek Hill at #1 with 550. 

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, adam said:

What is crazy is his YAC. He is 2nd in the NFL with 440 YAC, with Tyreek Hill at #1 with 550. 

and he is often dragging defenders with him. Payton-esque!

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Some nuggets from last night. 

[Stinger226]

go bears , we're getting better.

[killakrzydav]

If Field could elevate his plays and we don't have to draft a QB it would be huge for the franchise.

[BearFan PHX]

11 minutes ago, killakrzydav said:

If Field could elevate his plays and we don't have to draft a QB it would be huge for the franchise.

I totally agree. If Fields had worked out then we'd be in a great position with both those picks available, and even better - having found our franchise QB.

Of course you all know my view on that. But I understand the seduction of it. If somehow Fields could make his incredible athleticism work in some kind of sustainable system, we would be on the cusp of contending for real, especially after the coming offseason. Poles has certainly set that up for us.

But I would guard against wishing it so, and blowing our chance to get a high pick QB this year. Sticking with Fields is more than just a free trial period. If you go with him, youve got to be betting on him to be that guy. Otherwise, you just burned another year, and the team around him gets one year closer to the end of their deals, and then you STILL need time for a new rookie QB to develop. 2025, 2026 etc.

I get why people are hoping the light will come on for him. Fields certainly has the tools. He has a big arm, and a big body, hes fast and extremely elusive. In the open field, I've compared him to Devin Hester - which at least for me is extremely high praise. I've been saying that all along too. I surely dont hate Fields.

But I personally (my opinion) am morally certain that the guy is not reading at all out there. We see so many plays where he's standing back there with the ball, and not throwing it. He's taking too long to find the right guys. Then he starts to scramble, and that's where his athleticism comes in. Hes VERY good at it, and a good percentage of the time he makes incredible plays that way. And then you also get the sacks and fumbles. It's risky, and makes big plays and terrible plays. It's not what anyone would design an offense based on.

Some are praising Fields for last night. He didn't score a single touchdown. He turned the ball over multiple times. He blew his game winning drive before being gifted a second chance by the defense, where he finally found a WIDE open DJ Moore to get into field goal range. Any QB could have thrown that ball. That was DJ Moore being a hero.

I will wait to see the film this week before I say more. I suspect that there were receivers open on those plays where he just stood there not throwing the ball.

And when he threw it right into the chest of the defender?

I have to believe that there is a reason that Getsy is afraid to let him throw it. He is hiding Fields. Now maybe he's an idiot. That is certainly possible. But I think they limit Fields downfield and mid field passes, and when they do call them, a large percentage of the time, Fields holds the ball.

We all saw waht a QB tempo should look like with Bagent. Now dont get me wrong, he has his own problems, and is probably not a starter in the league for some reason (hope to be wrong on this), but he was a perfect example of QB tempo. The ball comes out fast, and arrives at the recievers right out of their break - that's the way it's designed to work.

So I get why people hope Fields gets his head right. He'd be an amazing stud if he did. Cutler had a great arm, Jeff George had an amazing arm - but they didn't make the right reads, and they didnt win Super Bowls. I think we (the Bears organization) have to realize this now, and not waste another year winning 9 games on defense with Fields as a game manager and peaking there, having no chance to go further, and not building.

We cant miss this chance. We punted it already last year by trading out of #1 to give Fields this year to show it. I totally get the hope and seduction, but I think we need a new QB.

[Stinger226]

I listened to the SCORE all day and the afternoon crew proposed a either or  for the QB situation. They didnt go into depth but keep it simple. 

You have 2 choices:  A: Trade Fields and draft Williams, you have a losing record for 2 yrs but in his 3rd yr he is the 5-10  best QB in the league. 

                                  B:   You go with Fields and have a winning record for the next 2 yrs but he only become the 10-15 QB in the league but you get to draft MHJ.

To answer that honestly, there are several variables I would need to know but in this context, I would take B

At this moment in time Goff is in 5th and Lawrence is 10. I used the NFL passing position which is based on yards. If you went by actuality Mahomes ,Burrow,  Hurts, Allen ,Jackson, Herbert in some sense of order. 10 to 15 would be Cousins, Goff, Wilson, Watkins, Purdy. I used a CBS poll for reference.

[BearFan PHX]

I guess Ive been making assumptions. I always assumed we all wanted to win a Super Bowl.

If we just want to be peak out as the 10th best team, then staying with Fields makes a lot of sense.

Also, there is nothing that says a rookie QB will be a loser for two years either. Especially if he has a team around him. And with two top picks, we can get MHJr and a top 5 QB - the list is deep this year.

[adam]

Here is Fields' chart.  Air Yards per attempt was 2.7, a career low.  17 passes at or behind the LOS. Only 5 pass attempts beyond 10 yards, and only 2 beyond 15. He only had 5 incompletions inbounds, and one was into the chest of the defender. This is nothing to write home about. One less fumble and a passing or rushing TD would've made this performance acceptable. 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

We cant miss this chance. We punted it already last year by trading out of #1 to give Fields this year to show it. I totally get the hope and seduction, but I think we need a new QB.

Since we're using 'what ifs' I'll ask you this.  What if we end up hiring a coach like Jim Harbaugh to take over as HC next year?  And (assuming he can pick up where he left off in SF) he's able to properly use and develop an offense that caters to FIelds' skillset?  We know he was able to get to a Super Bowl with a less than average QB like Kaepernick so surely he could do the same with a 'slouch' like Fields? 

Or what if, we trade Fields away.  He goes to a team with a functional OC/HC in place and flourishes? And we draft any of the QBs that 'can't be missed' and they flop? Because either they are A) not able to adapt to the NFL or B ) the Bears keep Getsy (or someone like him) and we're right back to where we started but one year later? 

I get the impression you trust Getsy more than you do Fields.  I only say that because you said he is 'hiding Fields' and you openly wonder why?  I ask, is it Fields or Getsy that is the problem? So far the offensive brain trust that was Nathanial Hackett (Getsy was his right hand man in GB) hasn't done really well in either Denver (as HC) or more recently as the OC in NY.

Last night there was a quick clip of Poles in the suite and they showed him where he was talking to someone to his right and motioning with his hand in a circular fashion as if to resemble a repetitive motion.  Some on social media have speculated it was him asking something to the effect of 'the same thing'?  This was right after the offense had done its gazillion-th screen pass to the outside.  There are confirmed reports that came out this week that Poles essentially asked Flus why he wasn't using key players more during the Detroit game.  This was in response to Flus telling the media that the newly acquired Sweat was on a rotation.  We saw last night that Sweat played a lot more than he did the previous week.  I'm curious now, especially with the bye coming up, will we see a more open offense allowing Fields to make or break it and play more to his style of football because Poles will ask Getsy and Flus about it.  I suspect that Poles will want to see Fields in his full potential for the remainder of the season and not hemmed in by Getsy's "protection" calls.    

[ASHKUM BEAR]

5 minutes ago, adam said:

Here is Fields' chart.  Air Yards per attempt was 2.7, a career low.  17 passes at or behind the LOS. Only 5 pass attempts beyond 10 yards, and only 2 beyond 15. He only had 5 incompletions inbounds, and one was into the chest of the defender. This is nothing to write home about. One less fumble and a passing or rushing TD would've made this performance acceptable. 

 

It was not pretty after the first series. I do not know any facts but believe Fields can change the play at the line. The triple boink screen calls could have been audibles by Fields and possibly the right calls by what he read. Same the week before with running the ball twice into the same wall. 

The important part is he did put the Bears in position to win after two costly fumbles. We ALL feared another fumble, sack, or int and he stepped up throwing a dime to Moore.  They practice that exact play every week, so it is embedded muscle memory.  Kneeling was also right, you cannot risk a fumble when you can kill the clock and get an easy 3 pts to take the lead. 

The low air yards was by design.  The Vikings blitzed like 57% and they had to be quick one read plays.  Kmet and the RBs had to help block more than release, especially later in the game.  I wish Getsy would have tried some deep shots early especially after the INT just to break the Vikings from routinely bringing the additional pressure but he had to also protect the small lead.

[ChileBear]

5 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Since we're using 'what ifs' I'll ask you this.  What if we end up hiring a coach like Jim Harbaugh to take over as HC next year?  And (assuming he can pick up where he left off in SF) he's able to properly use and develop an offense that caters to FIelds' skillset?  We know he was able to get to a Super Bowl with a less than average QB like Kaepernick so surely he could do the same with a 'slouch' like Fields? 

Or what if, we trade Fields away.  He goes to a team with a functional OC/HC in place and flourishes? And we draft any of the QBs that 'can't be missed' and they flop? Because either they are A) not able to adapt to the NFL or B ) the Bears keep Getsy (or someone like him) and we're right back to where we started but one year later? 

I get the impression you trust Getsy more than you do Fields.  I only say that because you said he is 'hiding Fields' and you openly wonder why?  I ask, is it Fields or Getsy that is the problem? So far the offensive brain trust that was Nathanial Hackett (Getsy was his right hand man in GB) hasn't done really well in either Denver (as HC) or more recently as the OC in NY.

Last night there was a quick clip of Poles in the suite and they showed him where he was talking to someone to his right and motioning with his hand in a circular fashion as if to resemble a repetitive motion.  Some on social media have speculated it was him asking something to the effect of 'the same thing'?  This was right after the offense had done its gazillion-th screen pass to the outside.  There are confirmed reports that came out this week that Poles essentially asked Flus why he wasn't using key players more during the Detroit game.  This was in response to Flus telling the media that the newly acquired Sweat was on a rotation.  We saw last night that Sweat played a lot more than he did the previous week.  I'm curious now, especially with the bye coming up, will we see a more open offense allowing Fields to make or break it and play more to his style of football because Poles will ask Getsy and Flus about it.  I suspect that Poles will want to see Fields in his full potential for the remainder of the season and not hemmed in by Getsy's "protection" calls.    

Three years in and Fields is still not a reliable NFL QB. Those numbers from MNF are pathetic and if he hasn't done it consistently yet, it is not going to happen. I think Poles knows it at this point and we'll bring in a new QB via the draft. All the excuses are just that, excuses for the guy that can't be trusted to make the necessary reads, get rid of the ball in a timely manner and put the team on his shoulders and get that gutsy win. Nope, that is not Justin. Get rid of him or bring in his replacement and let Fields play his way out of the job next year, but he will because he doesn't have the skills to be a top NFL QB.

[BearFan PHX]

Grizz, I agree. I hope they take the guardrails off of Fields. It would answer a lot of questions.

I also think that if youre gonna have a new coach next year, their opinion of what to do with Fields goes a long way - especially if it is Harbaugh. If he thinks he can Colin Kaepernick Fields into a winner, then I will go along for the ride with optimism. But it has to be someone I know has done it before, otherwise, I personally am gonna be cynical about the chances of it working out.

In other words, I've seen enough to know what i think about Fields, but if Harbaugh tells me a tuna sandwich should play QB, Im absolutely gonna defer to him LOL not that he would care at all what I think about it anyway LOL

As for Getsy, I dunno. He's either a giant idiot, or hes hot and cold and stuck with an awful QB. Im not sure which. I have said before that some of the play design I see is very creative, but the rhythm of the playcalling is trash. So Without being sure, ill go with Getsy's an idiot too lol But if he ends up a successful OC on another team some day, I won't be completely shocked. But would i keep him and bet on him? Not a chance.

But even if Getsy sucks, he could also be right that Fields sucks too.

I imagine they see Fields in practice throwing interceptions, or holding the ball too long, and that's why they hide him. But that doesnt mean Getsy doesnt have his share of the blame, because he surely does too.

It's just what we've seen for two years now is awful. I dont see a reason to keep any of the coaches or Fields.

But would I change my mind if they started calling an aggressive pass attack and Fields was getting the ball out fast? of course! I dont care if it's Peterman - if I see a Bears QB throwing in rhythm to open receivers and regularly completing passes like an NFL QB and not playing like a video game - I will be all for them, whoever they are.

Last, Im not against running QBs, they just need to be able to throw in tempo from the pocket too. If Justin had that, he'd be unstoppable. But its a glaring hole in his game and the rest cant really make up for it. And I dont see him becoming one.

[BearFan PHX]

8 minutes ago, ChileBear said:

Three years in and Fields is still not a reliable NFL QB. Those numbers from MNF are pathetic and if he hasn't done it consistently yet, it is not going to happen. I think Poles knows it at this point and we'll bring in a new QB via the draft. All the excuses are just that, excuses for the guy that can't be trusted to make the necessary reads, get rid of the ball in a timely manner and put the team on his shoulders and get that gutsy win. Nope, that is not Justin. Get rid of him or bring in his replacement and let Fields play his way out of the job next year, but he will because he doesn't have the skills to be a top NFL QB.

this is what Im seeing too.

It occurs to me that they might have decided to move on from Fields, and theyre throwing all this super short stuff to pad his stats for trade value? Or to tank? Or maybe just because they think its the only chance they have to win the game - which is also an indictment of Fields?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

38 minutes ago, adam said:

Here is Fields' chart.  Air Yards per attempt was 2.7, a career low.  17 passes at or behind the LOS. Only 5 pass attempts beyond 10 yards, and only 2 beyond 15. He only had 5 incompletions inbounds, and one was into the chest of the defender. This is nothing to write home about. One less fumble and a passing or rushing TD would've made this performance acceptable. 

 

You being a stat guy and ‘stats being stats’.  I’ll add a few of my own. 

[BearFan PHX]

So if you could trade Fields for Lawrence, Burrow or Stafford, you'd keep Fields?

Or maybe your point was that stats don't tell the whole story, in which case I totally agree.

All I can say is that if you watch the tape, it tells a very different story than the numbers do. At least to my eyes?

[ChileBear]

30 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

So if you could trade Fields for Lawrence, Burrow or Stafford, you'd keep Fields?

Or maybe your point was that stats don't tell the whole story, in which case I totally agree.

All I can say is that if you watch the tape, it tells a very different story than the numbers do. At least to my eyes?

And look at how many games we've won the three years he has been our QB. Numbers don't win games, players do and Fields is not a winning NFL QB and I doubt he ever will be, no matter the coach or oline or receiving corp. Yes, you guessed it, I'm done with Fields and I wanted him to do well, but he can't do it for all the athleticism he has.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

42 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

So if you could trade Fields for Lawrence, Burrow or Stafford, you'd keep Fields?

Or maybe your point was that stats don't tell the whole story, in which case I totally agree.

All I can say is that if you watch the tape, it tells a very different story than the numbers do. At least to my eyes?

I don’t understand your first question. ‘Trade Fields for one of the others then keep him?’   
 

And the point about stats are how you want to interpret them, and yes they don’t tell the whole story.  Suffice to say the stats I provided paint a more positive picture of Fields.  

[adam]

52 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

You being a stat guy and ‘stats being stats’.  I’ll add a few of my own. 

I like the top one for his last 5 games. Arguably the best 5 of his career.

On the 2nd half, all true, but cherrypicking for sure. I like QBR (44.5 - 23rd) over QB Rating, both are useful, but QBR is more accurate. Rushing yards are great, but should be more icing on the cake than the main meal. Using a stat and picking out one QB is kinda funny, he is 21st in the league for Comp%, behind the likes of Mac Jones, Desmond Ridder, Sam Howell and Baker Mayfield. Also, his Comp% is 0.7% higher than Stroud's but Stroud's Y/A is 8.4 compared to 7.1. So it is expected for a QB to have a lower Comp% with a higher Y/A.