Week 14 Official Game Thread - DET @ CHI, SUN, 12/10, Noon, CHI +3, O/U 42

[50england50]

Shame we didn’t have our oline healthy and Fields got injured at the start of the season because our season may have been significantly different. 

[adam]

On 12/4/2023 at 3:49 PM, adam said:

I am going Bears 27-20 in an upset. The Bears held DET to 14 pts for 57 minutes, then allowed 17 in 3 minutes. I think they can do it again, but this time close them out.

28-13, the Defense played better than expected. Great team win. 

[adam]

Just now, 50england50 said:

Shame we didn’t have our oline healthy and Fields got injured at the start of the season because our season may have been significantly different. 

Yep, all of those factors really hurt.

I am not very high on Davis, he is getting beat a lot, but yeah, and the injuries to the defense, which is a big reason they started 0-4, and lost the lead to Denver. 

[BearFan PHX]

This was probably Fields' best game. He may have had better stats in others, but to my eye, he threw in rhythm a number of times.

I wish this was 5 weeks ago so he has enough time to prove consistency, but no doubt we saw flashes today.

[BearFan PHX]

2 minutes ago, 50england50 said:

Shame we didn’t have our oline healthy and Fields got injured at the start of the season because our season may have been significantly different. 

for sure. having all those injuries on the OLine, and 4 games missing Fields really made it difficult.

Of course all teams have adversity, and injuries, and thats part of the game.

But yeah, if Fields had played like this week 4 or something, it'd be a lot easier to think about.

[adam]

The defense filled the box score. 4 sacks, 7 PD, 2 INT. Jaquan Brisker had 17 tackles. 

The Lions did this in the 2nd half:

Punt, Punt, Punt, Fumble, Downs, Downs, Interception

71 yards allowed in the 2nd half. That is elite against one of the best offenses in the NFL.

 

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, adam said:

The defense filled the box score. 4 sacks, 7 PD, 2 INT. Jaquan Brisker had 17 tackles. 

The Lions did this in the 2nd half:

Punt, Punt, Punt, Fumble, Downs, Downs, Interception

71 yards allowed in the 2nd half. That is elite against one of the best offenses in the NFL.

 

add another pass rusher and a better FS and this defensive roster is gonna be fearsome

[Stinger226]

We are where we're at, we win out and our negativity related to the team goes away. That's why you have to wait for the full season. If we make the playoffs, I guarantee everyone will be back. It's funny how the season plays out. We just beat the second ranked offense in the NFC. I suspect 8-8 going into the GB game. It will be nice to play a game that means something. Since we have the most dangerous QB ( not my words) in the NFL, hopefully Getsy uses him right. We got a chance.

[AZ54]

What a statement game and I say that seriously.   It wasn't all perfect, or one of those games where Detroit can say they were off their game.  Just like Detroit, the Bears had adversity and mistakes.  The better team overcame them and won the game.   

Monkeys are being cast off weekly:  Bears can't win 2 in a row - gone.   Bears can't win in the division - gone.  Bears can't come from behind to win - gone.  Bears can't close out game - gone.  Bears can only beat teams with losing records - gone.   Fields can't handle pressure (there isn't any more pressure than everyone calling for you to be fired) - gone.   

We've owned Detroit's offense and the "elite OC/HC candidate" Ben Johnson for literally 117min out of 120min in the last two games.  Even within the game TV announcers were complimenting him throughout the game.  Yet no GM who simply watched the last two Bears-Lions games (admittedly not a full sample size) would be thinking he's some offensive genius.  They'd be asking him why can't you beat a simple Tampa2-style D?   

This offense needs a decent #2 WR, or a legit #1, and let Moore slide into the #2 role where his versatility and skillset fits like a glove.  Mooney couldn't run for most of the offseason and that still shows on the field, he just doesn't have the quickness we've seen in years past.   

Fields looked good most of the game.  He still had a few mis-steps around the pocket but overall his pocket presence has improved a ton since week 1.  FWIW the mis-steps, and misfires, were nothing that I didn't see from Mahomes or Allen in their game this afternoon.  That sore shoulder seemed to hinder Fields' throws, almost like he couldn't follow through as he normally does leaving the ball high.  He played through it and if it were any other QB the announcers would have been admiring his toughness.  

Kmet is the real deal and if we can add one more good threat to this offense he can take off even further.  I'd still like to add a good receiving TE to this roster to compliment him. 

This D continues to come into their own.  If Johnson and Goff represent one of the NFL's best offenses (5th most passing yards in NFL) then we just held them to 161yds passing.  We gave up more yards rushing than expected (Detroit is 4th best rushing offense, Bear 3rd), or desired:  140yd.   Yet it's the bottom line at 13pts against one of the best offenses in the NFL that really stands out. 

Next week we play Cleveland and that D is tough but they have Flacco at QB.  Not sure what that means since they won today but more film on any player only helps.

 

[Stinger226]

Read a story on Bleacher report ( national writer) where he says that Fields increased his trade value with a win today. It amazes me how they have no idea what's going on in Chicago. Every time he plays well , he moves the arrow down on leaving. He's not even close to being first tier in the league but how a  couple of coaches have called him, the most dangerous man in the league at QB. Defenses have a huge problem defending him because of his feet. If Poles decides to move on from that, that will be hard to find again. His passing skills keeps improving, maybe one day he puts it all together. If I could change just one thing today, it would be a good center.

[Pixote]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Read a story on Bleacher report ( national writer) where he says that Fields increased his trade value with a win today. It amazes me how they have no idea what's going on in Chicago. Every time he plays well , he moves the arrow down on leaving. He's not even close to being first tier in the league but how a  couple of coaches have called him, the most dangerous man in the league at QB. Defenses have a huge problem defending him because of his feet. If Poles decides to move on from that, that will be hard to find again. His passing skills keeps improving, maybe one day he puts it all together. If I could change just one thing today, it would be a good center.

We have to give him a clean pocket to throw from if we want him to be a pocket passer. Simple enough. LOL. We are failing at doing just that. Way too much pressure on him today. If I remember correctly, and correct me if my memory sucks, but the last time we played Cleveland Fields got mauled and had a horrific game. Lets hope we can afford him better protection this time.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

That was a fun game - defense has been so fun to watch. So well coached and the young players showing up! JJ is going to get paid - what a monster at db. Brisker. Sweat. Edmunds and Edwards. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

5 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Monkeys are being cast off weekly:  Bears can't win 2 in a row - gone.   Bears can't win in the division - gone.  Bears can't come from behind to win - gone.  Bears can't close out game - gone.  Bears can only beat teams with losing records - gone.   Fields can't handle pressure (there isn't any more pressure than everyone calling for you to be fired) - gone.   

I also read that this was the first time the Bears won coming out of the bye in 10 years.  Great work today guys. 

[adam]

3-1 in last 4 games, only loss was the Detroit meltdown. So 0-4, then 2-3, then 3-1, so there is tangible progress. Now 4 left, 3-1 or 4-0 would be expected projection.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

4 hours ago, adam said:

3-1 in last 4 games, only loss was the Detroit meltdown. So 0-4, then 2-3, then 3-1, so there is tangible progress. Now 4 left, 3-1 or 4-0 would be expected projection.

Was just talking to a co-worker about how all the teams and players that started off the season have started to falter as of late. Detroit, CJ Stroud, the Bengals, the Eagles (two losses in a row now), Minnesota (has only scored 13 points in last two games they've played) and even KC and Mahomes with their literal meltdown yesterday.

[Stinger226]

We can win 4 or lose 4 , we just have to let the season play out.  The arrow is pointing up.

[AZ54]

58 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Was just talking to a co-worker about how all the teams and players that started off the season have started to falter as of late. Detroit, CJ Stroud, the Bengals, the Eagles (two losses in a row now), Minnesota (has only scored 13 points in last two games they've played) and even KC and Mahomes with their literal meltdown yesterday.

I saw a bit of Mahomes  press conference after that game.   I’m not sure he’d survive what Fields has had to endure in Chicago. 

[adam]

44 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I saw a bit of Mahomes  press conference after that game.   I’m not sure he’d survive what Fields has had to endure in Chicago. 

No way, can you imagine if Fields said anything like that or was caught on camera whining to Josh Allen like that. Mahomes true colors coming out, a big baby and sore loser. That dude has gotten every call for the last 5 years, its about time some start going the other way. The funny thing was, it was the right call, Toney was totally offsides. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

13 minutes ago, adam said:

No way, can you imagine if Fields said anything like that or was caught on camera whining to Josh Allen like that.

I think we've seen enough to how well Justin deals with adversity.  Patrick hasn't really had that too much in his career.  He's been 'lucky' to have a coach like Andy to help him look and play good.  It seems whenever he doesn't have all the right pieces in place (remember that super bowl where he got sacked 100 times?) he's human like the rest of us.  

Justin has come out once or twice and aired what sounded like dirty laundry (challenging the coaching early on this season) but quickly retracted the comments and said that he would never throw anyone else under the bus.  I saw in yesterday's game where he missed a receiver late in the game (and would have been a big gain) but he was visually frustrated.  The camera cut to him three separate times and it was obvious he was pretty upset.  It looked like he was really angry with himself for the miss.  Without being able to actually hear what he's saying or I myself not being able to read lips I can only assume he's taking the blame in situations like that.  

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I think we've seen enough to how well Justin deals with adversity.  Patrick hasn't really had that too much in his career.  He's been 'lucky' to have a coach like Andy to help him look and play good.  It seems whenever he doesn't have all the right pieces in place (remember that super bowl where he got sacked 100 times?) he's human like the rest of us.  

Justin has come out once or twice and aired what sounded like dirty laundry (challenging the coaching early on this season) but quickly retracted the comments and said that he would never throw anyone else under the bus.  I saw in yesterday's game where he missed a receiver late in the game (and would have been a big gain) but he was visually frustrated.  The camera cut to him three separate times and it was obvious he was pretty upset.  It looked like he was really angry with himself for the miss.  Without being able to actually hear what he's saying or I myself not being able to read lips I can only assume he's taking the blame in situations like that.  

to Justin's credit, I think he got misinterpreted with his coaching answer.

On the surface, when he said "coaching" it sounds like he means "the coaches" but i think he meant something else. I think he meant "coaching points, all the things Im supposed to think about during a play" - so that wasnt a dig at coaches, but I think an honest answer to say what Ive been saying too, that reading defenses and understanding the plays quickly enough is difficult for him.

I like Justin as a person, and he has amazing athletic and improvisational skills. The one thing I've said is missing, and this goes back to all the pre draft college analysis of him too, is that he doesnt process quickly enough.

Hes not stupid, it's just incredibly hard to do this in tempo. Only about 20 QBs in the world can do it at the NFL level right now. If you give him, or pretty much any QB 6 seconds to throw, they are all Hall of Famers. if you give anyone less than 2 seconds, no one can make it work reliably. It's that 2 and a half vs 4 seconds where it all happens.

Part of why we think Fields hasnt had a clean pocket is because he is taking that extra three quarters of a second to process.

Another part of the problem is that receivers come out of their breaks, and thats usually the moment when they are going to be the most open. If you dont pull the trigger then, everything goes to hell.

I also said that I FINALLY saw Fields make a few of those throws on time in this game. I'm not including the first drive of games where plays are pre-scripted - because QBs get a chance to really think about those plays before the game and do some "pre reading"

Anyway, all of this to say that when Fields said that "coaching" was slowing him down, I think he was just saying what I've been saying about him, and I dont think he was criticizing the coaches at all.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

28 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Hes not stupid, it's just incredibly hard to do this in tempo. Only about 20 QBs in the world can do it at the NFL level right now. If you give him, or pretty much any QB 6 seconds to throw, they are all Hall of Famers. if you give anyone less than 2 seconds, no one can make it work reliably. It's that 2 and a half vs 4 seconds where it all happens.

During last nights Dallas - Philly game I don’t how many times I heard the announcers refer to their WCO type scheme that McCarthy has installed there and how it’s helped Prescott.  I believe it’s called “Texas Coast”(?). Time and again they’d say Dak really liked the speed it helps him process.  He takes two steps and by the third he’s determining whether he’ll take off and run or try the long bomb.  I’d have to think this type of play calling could really benefit Justin.  He takes a lot of steps and during yesterday’s game had all of 2-3 seconds more times than not to make a play.  I’m not sure what scheme Getsy calls but it’s not really helping Justin learn the game all that well. Whenever they get something going (run game or short passes) they switch to something else.  

[BearFan PHX]

54 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

During last nights Dallas - Philly game I don’t how many times I heard the announcers refer to their WCO type scheme that McCarthy has installed there and how it’s helped Prescott.  I believe it’s called “Texas Coast”(?). Time and again they’d say Dak really liked the speed it helps him process.  He takes two steps and by the third he’s determining whether he’ll take off and run or try the long bomb.  I’d have to think this type of play calling could really benefit Justin.  He takes a lot of steps and during yesterday’s game had all of 2-3 seconds more times than not to make a play.  I’m not sure what scheme Getsy calls but it’s not really helping Justin learn the game all that well. Whenever they get something going (run game or short passes) they switch to something else.  

right, and for the really good ones, two seconds is not enough, but three is.

It's a game of inches, but it is also a game of fractions of seconds.

I'm not a Getsy fan per se, but I have seen many wide open receivers who were the first read, and Justin looking right at them and not pulling the trigger. i dont know why.

I am sure that a fantastic coordinator could help Fields, but I have no idea if anything would bring him to the point of being a Super Bowl winner.

But he did finally show some of it this past week, i admit. Let's see what the future brings.

I think it's also worth pointing out that when Fields knew he had a free play, he had no problem ripping it to Moore for a long touchdown. i think that says something about his confidence in making these reads? When he knows there is no risk, the ball is out spectacularly with an accurate downfield throw. Something about not being sure what he's seeing is burning that extra half a second, and that's whats killing everything.

This may have nothing to do with it, but I wonder if his epilepsy, or his epilepsy meds are playing a part in this?

[BearFan PHX]

OK, after asking myself the question out loud I Googled and found this:

"Sometimes the way that seizure medicines stop seizures also can affect how the brain works in other ways. Since seizure medicines lower the excitability of nerve cells in the brain, they can also affect normal activity. Cognitive problems - problems with thinking, remembering, paying attention or concentrating, finding the right words, or other symptoms – can be due to side effects of some seizure medicines. Some medicines may also affect a person’s energy level, mood, motivation or how fast they think or do tasks."

It might not be something that would affect a normal persons day, but it might take a half a second off of an NFL QBs processing speed?

https://www.epilepsy.com/treatment/medicines/side-effects

[Mongo3451]

This was a huge win for the beloved.  First back to back wins for Flus.  First back to back division wins since 2019.  The team is learning to win, together.  Flus learned and adapted from the previous Lions game and the defense followed suit by believing in their leader.  Huge win for Flus.  Last year was the teardown.  This year is the first year of the build up.  Poles has this team on track to dominate on ways we haven't seen in awhile. 

It's amazing how fickle we fans, self included, have become.  I was ready to fire Flus for his lack of balls in the first Lions game.  So glad to see him learning.  

Getsy is learning as well.  I'm seeing more second half adapting.  His next progression will be to adapt on the fly.  The only saving grace for Justin is going to be him buying into Getsy 100%, as trust between the two is paramount.

They say water seeks it's own level and truly believe that is what this team is trending towards.  I remember talking about getting the team healthy and used to playing together.  The pieces are melding well, now that the core is able to perform.

Needs for dominance are becoming more clear.  C, RDE, WR, FS and RG respectively.  I'm still at the opinion that Fields needs upgraded, but we can win with him.

[Stinger226]

On 12/9/2023 at 7:46 PM, adam said:

I still have NO clue what Poles saw in Velus Jones, I think everyone's mocks had Cordale Flott (CB) in that round. For some reason, the sim drafts always put him in mine. The craziest thing, Velus and Cordale are cousins. Small world, lol.  

 

Poles likes athletes and got excited about his speed. Bad call