killakrzydav Posted December 23, 2023 Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 Insane fast! Enjoy.https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=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%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1701378597632585878&lang=en&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2338933%26start%3D1180&sessionId=26d7810368c0a88a3efd69853d5ed99c93604fef&theme=light&widgetsVersion=2615f7e52b7e0%3A1702314776716&width=550px Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted December 23, 2023 Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 He does it effortlessly, we can't pass up on him. Instantly a top 5 WR, Jefferson, Chase, Lamb level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted December 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 Reading a few further articles it is stated that he has actually hit 23.5 with a goal of running a 4.38 at the combine. That's insane at this size and flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted December 23, 2023 Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 27 minutes ago, killakrzydav said: Reading a few further articles it is stated that he has actually hit 23.5 with a goal of running a 4.38 at the combine. That's insane at this size and flexibility. I don't know if there is another sure thing like him in the draft. He is an automatic 1,500 yard/10 TD WR annually for a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted December 23, 2023 Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 19 minutes ago, adam said: He does it effortlessly, we can't pass up on him. Instantly a top 5 WR, Jefferson, Chase, Lamb level. With Arizona stuck with Murray, this will be their selection at 2 or 3. Maybe 1 if Carolina wins. I think he would make our offense much better having a #1 to pair with Moore, but that means passing on the best QB. TE Bowers would be another asset, but I think a stud LT would help elevate Kmet to be more involved as a receiver if he doesn't have to help block. Taking Bowers, IMO, would be a luxury for 2 TE sets and not as beneficial as taking another position. Edge is also a worthy position, but with Sweat, I can see letting that position slide a round. Can Poles pull another rabbit out of his hat and win another draft by getting a WR and QB combo, all while gaining a 2nd to get another DE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted December 23, 2023 Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said: With Arizona stuck with Murray, this will be their selection at 2 or 3. Maybe 1 if Carolina wins. I think he would make our offense much better having a #1 to pair with Moore, but that means passing on the best QB. TE Bowers would be another asset, but I think a stud LT would help elevate Kmet to be more involved as a receiver if he doesn't have to help block. Taking Bowers, IMO, would be a luxury for 2 TE sets and not as beneficial as taking another position. Edge is also a worthy position, but with Sweat, I can see letting that position slide a round. Can Poles pull another rabbit out of his hat and win another draft by getting a WR and QB combo, all while gaining a 2nd to get another DE. all good thoughts, and dont forget we have a ton of cap space too, so some answers might come in free agency. Maybe OC and FS in free agency? And if we are trading Fields, thats another draft pick too in the 2nd or 3rd round probably. Maybe 2025 though if we want it to conditionally increase in value if Fields plays a certain percentage of snaps for them or something? QB, OC, WR, FS, DL, TE, P Id look at MHJr at #1, and find our QB with our second first rounder assuming we dont win too many games in the stretch here and lose that 2nd first rounder down to where you cant get a QB anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted December 23, 2023 Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 If you want to raise the performance of the offense draft both MHJ and Bowers. Bagent could get us to a playoff game. Maybe a QB drops to round 3 . No matter who is the QB, those raise the quality of the roster. Browning is a free agent, Cousins, Tannehill or stick with Fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted December 23, 2023 Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: all good thoughts, and dont forget we have a ton of cap space too, so some answers might come in free agency. Maybe OC and FS in free agency? QB, OC, WR, FS, DL, TE, P Id look at MHJr at #1, and find our QB with our second first rounder assuming we dont win too many games in the stretch here and lose that 2nd first rounder down to where you cant get a QB anymore? Losing out as killakrzydav said could make the draft scary by having two high picks. MHJ and Williams/Daniels would get the hype going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted December 23, 2023 Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said: Losing out as killakrzydav said could make the draft scary by having two high picks. MHJ and Williams/Daniels would get the hype going. it sure would. and as seductive as trading down for a haul of picks is, getting MHJr and Williams/Daniels would be amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted December 23, 2023 Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 18 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: it sure would. and as seductive as trading down for a haul of picks is, getting MHJr and Williams/Daniels would be amazing. I think Poles has a trade value set in his mind for JF, it will be similar as he had for Johnson CB as to what it would cost him to replace that player. He will ask for appriximately a 20th overall pick. If the Bears had to buy a QB to be just an average starter, you figure that price. If no one buys at that price, you keep him. The NFL is down to no names lining up with the rash of injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted December 23, 2023 Report Share Posted December 23, 2023 3 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said: I think Poles has a trade value set in his mind for JF, it will be similar as he had for Johnson CB as to what it would cost him to replace that player. He will ask for appriximately a 20th overall pick. If the Bears had to buy a QB to be just an average starter, you figure that price. If no one buys at that price, you keep him. The NFL is down to no names lining up with the rash of injuries. In my opinion, the probable trade value of JF is a high 3rd rounder, possibly to a 2nd rounder if there are multiple suitors, or if there is a conditional performance clause that kicks in if JF does well on his new team. Im not sure I agree that you keep or trade him based on what you can get for him, but these are all just my guesses and opinion. I definitely agree with the last thing you wrote "The NFL is down to no names lining up with the rash of injuries." it's SO true, and I guess it really underlines how in the salary cap era the coaching difference is even more important. It's freakin hard to put together a Super Bowl winner and continue to contend for seasons before and after. Without some luck, a true all time top 10 QB, and/or a legendary coach, maybe even impossible. I think about New England, and how amazing what they did was. I'd love a taste of that here in Chicago. Heck, even our 85 team was a one year thing, and to some extent the year prior (84) - but then fell apart quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted December 24, 2023 Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 Some GM's told Courtney Cronin, that Justin will fetch anywhere from pick 25-45. Could be low first or high second. Or low second and third. Look back at the Darnold trade last year. GM's value Justin higher than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted December 24, 2023 Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 42 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said: Some GM's told Courtney Cronin, that Justin will fetch anywhere from pick 25-45. Could be low first or high second. Or low second and third. Look back at the Darnold trade last year. GM's value Justin higher than that. If we could even just get 30, that would be amazing. I would LOVE to be wrong on my guessed valuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted December 24, 2023 Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said: In my opinion, the probable trade value of JF is a high 3rd rounder, possibly to a 2nd rounder if there are multiple suitors, or if there is a conditional performance clause that kicks in if JF does well on his new team. Im not sure I agree that you keep or trade him based on what you can get for him, but these are all just my guesses and opinion. I definitely agree with the last thing you wrote "The NFL is down to no names lining up with the rash of injuries." it's SO true, and I guess it really underlines how in the salary cap era the coaching difference is even more important. It's freakin hard to put together a Super Bowl winner and continue to contend for seasons before and after. Without some luck, a true all time top 10 QB, and/or a legendary coach, maybe even impossible. I think about New England, and how amazing what they did was. I'd love a taste of that here in Chicago. Heck, even our 85 team was a one year thing, and to some extent the year prior (84) - but then fell apart quickly. The Bears can hold onto JF and possibly get a 3rd rd compensation pick if he signs as a FA, so a 3rd rd pick is not worth losing a starting QB for. The Bears do not need to trade him just to trade him. A rookie QB tends to do better learning the system and speed of the game from the sidelines, so I would lean on JF for that and to either increase his value while baking his replacement. The Bears could trade him before the deadline too if QBs go down again like dominoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted December 24, 2023 Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 16 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said: The Bears can hold onto JF and possibly get a 3rd rd compensation pick if he signs as a FA, so a 3rd rd pick is not worth losing a starting QB for. The Bears do not need to trade him just to trade him. A rookie QB tends to do better learning the system and speed of the game from the sidelines, so I would lean on JF for that and to either increase his value while baking his replacement. The Bears could trade him before the deadline too if QBs go down again like dominoes. The poll that guy did with GMs they all said a third or lower. If teams know we want to trade him, they will be lucky to get that. you all condemn him and then turn around and think you could get a high second or late first. Not sure those opinions align very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted December 24, 2023 Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said: The Bears can hold onto JF and possibly get a 3rd rd compensation pick if he signs as a FA, so a 3rd rd pick is not worth losing a starting QB for. The Bears do not need to trade him just to trade him. A rookie QB tends to do better learning the system and speed of the game from the sidelines, so I would lean on JF for that and to either increase his value while baking his replacement. The Bears could trade him before the deadline too if QBs go down again like dominoes. good point, I hadnt considered compensatory picks angle, thank you for that. I wonder though, given all the cap space we have, whether we will qualify for compensatory picks, since we will be signing free agents too. Even still though, your point does make a rational justification for at least a 3rd round value. And that's right where I predict he'd fall too. I'm not personally on board with taking a top QB and keeping JF, but thats just my opinion, and I get the logic of what youre saying too. Also, if multiple teams are bidding, it could go much higher depending on what they are willing to offer to win a bidding war. But who knows what that market could be. Obviously the more teams are interested, the higher the price goes. It's not how badly we want to trade him that sets his value of course, but how badly more than one team wants him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted December 24, 2023 Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 43 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: good point, I hadnt considered compensatory picks angle, thank you for that. I wonder though, given all the cap space we have, whether we will qualify for compensatory picks, since we will be signing free agents too. Even still though, your point does make a rational justification for at least a 3rd round value. And that's right where I predict he'd fall too. I'm not personally on board with taking a top QB and keeping JF, but thats just my opinion, and I get the logic of what youre saying too. Also, if multiple teams are bidding, it could go much higher depending on what they are willing to offer to win a bidding war. But who knows what that market could be. Obviously the more teams are interested, the higher the price goes. It's not how badly we want to trade him that sets his value of course, but how badly more than one team wants him. Will we have the same cap space at the end of 2024 when JF becomes a FA if they don't sign his option? I am guessing we will be done and need to be signing our own by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted December 24, 2023 Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 Man, I hit that running to the toilet the other day...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted December 24, 2023 Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said: Will we have the same cap space at the end of 2024 when JF becomes a FA if they don't sign his option? I am guessing we will be done and need to be signing our own by then. That's what I think too. The acquisition phase burns out pretty quick. I think that's why teams like New England were trading away good players before their second deals, like Akiem Hicks. It kept them in rookie contracts and constant draft acquisition mode. It's risky, but if you are great at talent evaluation, it's the way to go to keep yourself in the hunt year after year - assuming you have a great QB all sewn up of course. But it's hard on fans who grow attached to players who are playing well. It's a brutal business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted December 24, 2023 Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 47 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: That's what I think too. The acquisition phase burns out pretty quick. I think that's why teams like New England were trading away good players before their second deals, like Akiem Hicks. It kept them in rookie contracts and constant draft acquisition mode. It's risky, but if you are great at talent evaluation, it's the way to go to keep yourself in the hunt year after year - assuming you have a great QB all sewn up of course. But it's hard on fans who grow attached to players who are playing well. It's a brutal business. Good built teams rarely dip into the FA market, are rewarded compensatory picks, and if they do sign a player, they are usually cut (like Peppers signing in GB) and do not count against the comp pick scale. The day I see that in Chicago, I know they are yearly championship contenders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted December 24, 2023 Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 20 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said: Good built teams rarely dip into the FA market, are rewarded compensatory picks, and if they do sign a player, they are usually cut (like Peppers signing in GB) and do not count against the comp pick scale. The day I see that in Chicago, I know they are yearly championship contenders a freakin men. and just like the New England fans, people will be upset as favorite players are traded away, but that is the winning formula if you can pull it off and make the right replacement choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted December 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2023 No chance you can say Justin sucks but still want a second for him. Choose a freakin side and stay there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted December 25, 2023 Report Share Posted December 25, 2023 45 minutes ago, killakrzydav said: No chance you can say Justin sucks but still want a second for him. Choose a freakin side and stay there unless you think other GMs are suckers lol But I think Fields is worth a 3rd, possibly becoming a 2nd with performance or snap count clauses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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