Poles please blow this thing up

[adam]

It may not be the most popular route to go, especially because Fields is such a great leader and teammate, but this group has won 10 games in the last 34. A 10-24 record. Fields is 8-22 in those games and 10-30 overall. This is not a tough decision. There is no way Fields returns. 

For Flus, you have to win the Division before you do anything else. He is 2-10 in the Division. I could care less about the improvement. It was clear it came from player acquisition and health, not some Flus magic. The Sweat trade and the players coming back from injury turned the defense around. Playing CAR, ATL, and ARZ helped. Also playing MIN with Dobbs. They are 1-3 in the last 4 games against real teams, 1-1 against DET, loss to CLE, loss to GB. Those are the only games that matter. 

I feel like I had some recency bias lately and the wins, because they are so rare were fool's gold. The Bears were beating bad teams, like they should. The roster is solid, but there are still holes to fill. I feel like the team would be stuck in neutral if they run this back. 

Could they make the playoffs with Fields, sure, but that is not saying much. This offense scares no one. The same QB that played against ATL at home was AWOL today in GB. That is sad and unfortunate, but it is the reality of the league. Take the name out of the equation, and just look at the body of work. It is subpar and the QB position needs to be upgraded to take the next step.

[BearFan PHX]

well said.

[Stinger226]

10 minutes ago, adam said:

It may not be the most popular route to go, especially because Fields is such a great leader and teammate, but this group has won 10 games in the last 34. A 10-24 record. Fields is 8-22 in those games and 10-30 overall. This is not a tough decision. There is no way Fields returns. 

For Flus, you have to win the Division before you do anything else. He is 2-10 in the Division. I could care less about the improvement. It was clear it came from player acquisition and health, not some Flus magic. The Sweat trade and the players coming back from injury turned the defense around. Playing CAR, ATL, and ARZ helped. Also playing MIN with Dobbs. They are 1-3 in the last 4 games against real teams, 1-1 against DET, loss to CLE, loss to GB. Those are the only games that matter. 

I feel like I had some recency bias lately and the wins, because they are so rare were fool's gold. The Bears were beating bad teams, like they should. The roster is solid, but there are still holes to fill. I feel like the team would be stuck in neutral if they run this back. 

Could they make the playoffs with Fields, sure, but that is not saying much. This offense scares no one. The same QB that played against ATL at home was AWOL today in GB. That is sad and unfortunate, but it is the reality of the league. Take the name out of the equation, and just look at the body of work. It is subpar and the QB position needs to be upgraded to take the next step.

So you take a job and tell the owners it will be a 3-4 rebuild. It's the end of yr 2. We improved as a team as he has his answers at the QB position, he's not talking so we will find out on draft day. Anyone that's tells you they know what he's going to do is lying.

[adam]

I have no clue what he is going to do, but the progress has to be assessed on it's own. If they throw away last year fine. what were the goals this season, and if they were met, cool, but if not, then thats cool too.

Flus' teams have only beaten Goff and Murray as average to above average QBs. Fields has NEVER won when the opponent scores 21 or more. The division record for me is the kicker for Flus. It's great that you went 5-6 outside of the division playing the last place schedule, but only going 2-4 in the Division this year, and 0-6 last year is terrible. 

Rushing 4 when you absolutely need pressure was the kicker for me. He went passive when they needed to be aggressive. Playing soft zone against a Shanahan offense is shooting yourself in the face.

[BearFan PHX]

nah we played along all year, wait and see, now the data is complete. dont tell us we cant say stuff because no one knows what Poles will do.

Ill tell ya what, if poles brings Flus and Fields back, then Poles should be fired - hopefully before he signs those deals. Just tell Warren thats your plan and then pack your bags.

And you know what? Poles is almost certainly smarter than that - unless he is blinded by loyalty. And thats been something Ive been concerned about.

At some point you gotta decide if you are a fan of the players or the team. I'm a fan of the team. if the players are helping the team I love em. If not - NEXT.

[Stinger226]

My comment was no one knows,  I never said no one isn't allowed an opinion, they just don't matter.

[BearFan PHX]

that includes everything written on this board. and yet, we are still gonna talk about it.

and it doesnt take an expert to see that Flooser and Fields need to go. It's hardly a difficult decision. It couldnt be more obvious.

[Stinger226]

Poles is going to do what he thinks is best, he could care less what we think. I support whatever decision he makes even if it's not what I thought he was going to do. I think he is a smart guy whether he brings anyone back or gets new people. I just want a winning team.

[adam]

3 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Poles is going to do what he thinks is best, he could care less what we think. I support whatever decision he makes even if it's not what I thought he was going to do. I think he is a smart guy whether he brings anyone back or gets new people. I just want a winning team.

Yep, I agree, 110%. If they stick with everyone, I will be disappointed, but I will still support them. If they blow it up, it will be exciting to see what they do next.

I just hope he makes the right decision. I know there is talk about what happens if the Bears keep Fields and Caleb Williams or Drake Maye become the next Stroud, or if they draft Williams and Fields balls out. Nothing external matters as long as the Bears get it right internally. The QB they keep needs to be a top 12 Passer next year and score TDs in the 4th quarter. If the QBs that go elsewhere excel, who cares. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

1 hour ago, adam said:

It may not be the most popular route to go, especially because Fields is such a great leader and teammate, but this group has won 10 games in the last 34. A 10-24 record. Fields is 8-22 in those games and 10-30 overall. This is not a tough decision. There is no way Fields returns. 

For Flus, you have to win the Division before you do anything else. He is 2-10 in the Division. I could care less about the improvement. It was clear it came from player acquisition and health, not some Flus magic. The Sweat trade and the players coming back from injury turned the defense around. Playing CAR, ATL, and ARZ helped. Also playing MIN with Dobbs. They are 1-3 in the last 4 games against real teams, 1-1 against DET, loss to CLE, loss to GB. Those are the only games that matter. 

I feel like I had some recency bias lately and the wins, because they are so rare were fool's gold. The Bears were beating bad teams, like they should. The roster is solid, but there are still holes to fill. I feel like the team would be stuck in neutral if they run this back. 

Could they make the playoffs with Fields, sure, but that is not saying much. This offense scares no one. The same QB that played against ATL at home was AWOL today in GB. That is sad and unfortunate, but it is the reality of the league. Take the name out of the equation, and just look at the body of work. It is subpar and the QB position needs to be upgraded to take the next step.

I agree. Bring a Leslie Frazier as the DC and get an offensive minded head coach. I still say go pay Harbaugh. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

1 hour ago, adam said:

I have no clue what he is going to do, but the progress has to be assessed on it's own. If they throw away last year fine. what were the goals this season, and if they were met, cool, but if not, then thats cool too.

Flus' teams have only beaten Goff and Murray as average to above average QBs. Fields has NEVER won when the opponent scores 21 or more. The division record for me is the kicker for Flus. It's great that you went 5-6 outside of the division playing the last place schedule, but only going 2-4 in the Division this year, and 0-6 last year is terrible. 

Rushing 4 when you absolutely need pressure was the kicker for me. He went passive when they needed to be aggressive. Playing soft zone against a Shanahan offense is shooting yourself in the face.

They haven’t beat any good teams. I respect Flus but football is a tough life and given a reset at qb (if they go that way), you got to reset the coach. 
 

Conspiracy theory - Is poles buddying up with players more him making sure the guys know him and he gets em so they know the GM has their back when a new coach ultimately comes in??? 

[Stinger226]

Just now, DABEARSDABOMB said:

They haven’t beat any good teams. I respect Flus but football is a tough life and given a reset at qb (if they go that way), you got to reset the coach. 
 

Conspiracy theory - Is poles buddying up with players more him making sure the guys know him and he gets em so they know the GM has their back when a new coach ultimately comes in??? 

Now if he gets a better coach for the job , go for it , but is a newbie going to be better? Harbaugh , or A vet coach? You could lose the locker room if you make a bad choice.

[CrackerDog]

Harbaugh wants the Bolts job.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

18 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Now if he gets a better coach for the job , go for it , but is a newbie going to be better? Harbaugh , or A vet coach? You could lose the locker room if you make a bad choice.

Same thing I said about Fields. Flus is okay and I give him fair credit and I root for him, but he isn’t good enough and I’m not tying a new qb to him unless the Bears go with a vet qb. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

14 minutes ago, CrackerDog said:

Harbaugh wants the Bolts job.  

Does he really - I just don’t believe Chargers ownership with do it. 

[BearFan2000]

13 hours ago, adam said:

Yep, I agree, 110%. If they stick with everyone, I will be disappointed, but I will still support them. If they blow it up, it will be exciting to see what they do next.

I just hope he makes the right decision. I know there is talk about what happens if the Bears keep Fields and Caleb Williams or Drake Maye become the next Stroud, or if they draft Williams and Fields balls out. Nothing external matters as long as the Bears get it right internally. The QB they keep needs to be a top 12 Passer next year and score TDs in the 4th quarter. If the QBs that go elsewhere excel, who cares. 

Reality is as I mentioned in a different post is that whatever we do has risk/reward.  I'll support whatever Poles decides, I know he's got a lot of tough decisions to make, and I'm glad I'm not in his shoes.  As a fan it's hard because we all want the same bottom line, we want the Bears to become a consistent winner. If that happens we know the right choices were made regardless of a QB being drafted by other teams being successful, or trading our QB and he becomes successful elsewhere, or coaching changes or non changes, and so on.  At the end of the day you can't let all the "what if's" dictated your decision, because they don't really matter, all that matters is what you do, and the things you can control.  We all want the same thing, we're never going to 100% agree on how to get there.  For us the offseason has begun and so the speculation part of the offseason has begun as we end another season on the outside looking in at the playoffs.  

[Stinger226]

13 hours ago, adam said:

Yep, I agree, 110%. If they stick with everyone, I will be disappointed, but I will still support them. If they blow it up, it will be exciting to see what they do next.

I just hope he makes the right decision. I know there is talk about what happens if the Bears keep Fields and Caleb Williams or Drake Maye become the next Stroud, or if they draft Williams and Fields balls out. Nothing external matters as long as the Bears get it right internally. The QB they keep needs to be a top 12 Passer next year and score TDs in the 4th quarter. If the QBs that go elsewhere excel, who cares. 

Poles just has to make the right decision. If he keeps Fields, he has to play well, if he drafts a QB he has to shown as a # 1 pick is a special player. He won't get a second chance to fix his decision. 

The OL had their worst game of the year . We didn't run well and Fields was constantly under pressure. The best OL , Jenkins, had his worst game. Poles has to draft a OT, OG, and absolutely get a new center. He needs another pass rusher and keep adding depth . That's what building thru the draft encompasses. Building the roster isn't done yet which will affect the the possible trade of the first pick. I get the impression that everyone thinks we are already supposed to be a good team that isn't playing well, that's not the case. The mission this year was to improve and find out if Justin is our QB of the future. We did that, and now Poles just has continue forward improving the team. I don't understand the outrage to burn everything down. Flus got a 4 year deal as the coach, if the McCaskeys expected everything to be accomplished in two yrs, Poles and Flus would have got two yr deals. 

I think Flus stays after watching interviews by Poles and Warren, Getsy probably gone and we will find out on draft day with Justin.

[BearFan2000]

45 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Poles just has to make the right decision. If he keeps Fields, he has to play well, if he drafts a QB he has to shown as a # 1 pick is a special player. He won't get a second chance to fix his decision. 

The OL had their worst game of the year . We didn't run well and Fields was constantly under pressure. The best OL , Jenkins, had his worst game. Poles has to draft a OT, OG, and absolutely get a new center. He needs another pass rusher and keep adding depth . That's what building thru the draft encompasses. Building the roster isn't done yet which will affect the the possible trade of the first pick. I get the impression that everyone thinks we are already supposed to be a good team that isn't playing well, that's not the case. The mission this year was to improve and find out if Justin is our QB of the future. We did that, and now Poles just has continue forward improving the team. I don't understand the outrage to burn everything down. Flus got a 4 year deal as the coach, if the McCaskeys expected everything to be accomplished in two yrs, Poles and Flus would have got two yr deals. 

I think Flus stays after watching interviews by Poles and Warren, Getsy probably gone and we will find out on draft day with Justin.

I think you're right that Flus probably does stay.  Personally I'm not sure where I lean as far as what the right decision is.  As a fan I'm tired of losing (especially to the insufferable cheeseheads).  I'm also tired of this cycle we've been in where we hit the reset button every few years and wonder why we aren't building anything.  Every time we hit reset we push back the expectation of this team having sustainable success.  Part of our problem is when we have hit reset we generally haven't made the right decisions and simply replaced bad with bad.  What Poles has to evaluate Flus on is if he feels the foundation he's built here is one he can build a winner on, or if a new foundation needs to be put in place.  Again I feel like I'm not sure 100% where I lean on the whole thing, I've gone back and forth in my own mind what I think is the right way to go.  At the end of the day I have to trust Warren and Poles to make the right choices and root for my Bears to become a consistent winner again.  The GB loss has ended the season with a bad taste in our mouths.  Right now it can be hard to look past that.

[ChileBear]

6 minutes ago, BearFan2000 said:

I think you're right that Flus probably does stay.  Personally I'm not sure where I lean as far as what the right decision is.  As a fan I'm tired of losing (especially to the insufferable cheeseheads).  I'm also tired of this cycle we've been in where we hit the reset button every few years and wonder why we aren't building anything.  Every time we hit reset we push back the expectation of this team having sustainable success.  Part of our problem is when we have hit reset we generally haven't made the right decisions and simply replaced bad with bad.  What Poles has to evaluate Flus on is if he feels the foundation he's built here is one he can build a winner on, or if a new foundation needs to be put in place.  Again I feel like I'm not sure 100% where I lean on the whole thing, I've gone back and forth in my own mind what I think is the right way to go.  At the end of the day I have to trust Warren and Poles to make the right choices and root for my Bears to become a consistent winner again.  The GB loss has ended the season with a bad taste in our mouths.  Right now it can be hard to look past that.

imDo, Flus was the benefactor of a healthy D roster and of Poles getting Sweat when he did. I am NOT happy with Flus' record in the division, and his record with fouth quarter leads, for those reasons alone he should be released. The record and eye test say he's never leading us to the Super Bowl he is just not a good game time coach.

[Stinger226]

Question , what GM has his head coach do exit interviews with his players and then fires him? He's coming back or he wouldn't be involved in team evaluations. Heard an interview of Flus, he knows he's coming back, way to confident.

[Lucky Luciano]

didn't we go through all of this with lovie's defense?

this is the same crap that has been figured out for 2 decades. i cringe and slap myself in the head every time i see this soft zone crap give up first down after first down. there is a place for zone and cover 2 in a game but certainly not how we have used it for over 10 years! enough is enough.

also, how are we going to hire a quality D co-ordinator with flus here when they will be expected to run the same defensive concept? it's the SAME OLD SAME OLD we did with lovie when he pushed rivera out. flus is a lame duck coach and what assistant coach is coming here, defensive or offensive, with that on the block?

just get rid of this mess if we can find anyone competent.

[Stinger226]

34 minutes ago, BearFan2000 said:

I think you're right that Flus probably does stay.  Personally I'm not sure where I lean as far as what the right decision is.  As a fan I'm tired of losing (especially to the insufferable cheeseheads).  I'm also tired of this cycle we've been in where we hit the reset button every few years and wonder why we aren't building anything.  Every time we hit reset we push back the expectation of this team having sustainable success.  Part of our problem is when we have hit reset we generally haven't made the right decisions and simply replaced bad with bad.  What Poles has to evaluate Flus on is if he feels the foundation he's built here is one he can build a winner on, or if a new foundation needs to be put in place.  Again I feel like I'm not sure 100% where I lean on the whole thing, I've gone back and forth in my own mind what I think is the right way to go.  At the end of the day I have to trust Warren and Poles to make the right choices and root for my Bears to become a consistent winner again.  The GB loss has ended the season with a bad taste in our mouths.  Right now it can be hard to look past that.

You need to comment more, all your statements are spot on. We have never seen a complete rebuild before and this is what it looks like. It's not instant success, it's probably takes 4 years and lots of growing pains. I think Po!es is right on schedule with his rebuild plan. You, like me are just impatient because of all the losing over the years. Next year his has to start winning and year 4 it's a run to the SB. He never told anyone that was going to happen in yr 2. 

[Stinger226]

5 minutes ago, Lucky Luciano said:

didn't we go through all of this with lovie's defense?

this is the same crap that has been figured out for 2 decades. i cringe and slap myself in the head every time i see this soft zone crap give up first down after first down. there is a place for zone and cover 2 in a game but certainly not how we have used it for over 10 years! enough is enough.

also, how are we going to hire a quality D co-ordinator with flus here when they will be expected to run the same defensive concept? it's the SAME OLD SAME OLD we did with lovie when he pushed rivera out. flus is a lame duck coach and what assistant coach is coming here, defensive or offensive, with that on the block?

just get rid of this mess if we can find anyone competent.

I dislike the soft zone also but to his credit his has mixed man to man more. Also not a a big blitzer, he has did that more than while in Indy. I thing he grows more once he gets another pass rusher. 

[BearFan PHX]

29 minutes ago, Lucky Luciano said:

didn't we go through all of this with lovie's defense?

this is the same crap that has been figured out for 2 decades. i cringe and slap myself in the head every time i see this soft zone crap give up first down after first down. there is a place for zone and cover 2 in a game but certainly not how we have used it for over 10 years! enough is enough.

also, how are we going to hire a quality D co-ordinator with flus here when they will be expected to run the same defensive concept? it's the SAME OLD SAME OLD we did with lovie when he pushed rivera out. flus is a lame duck coach and what assistant coach is coming here, defensive or offensive, with that on the block?

just get rid of this mess if we can find anyone competent.

it does seem like we keep making the same mistakes over and over. Its new people trying it, but we have no organizational memory.

How many OCs have come in thinking the WR screen was gonna be our thing? Over and over they try the same things, they dont look at film from the previous coaches. As an organization, we dont learn.

We stay with the soft zones, we stay with the WR screens and we stay with the first year of a rookie QB matched to the last ear of a coaching staff.

Please Poles, fire the coaching staff AND bring in a new QB to start at the same time as the new staff.

At this point is anyone gonna be worse than what we've seen? What exactly is the risk here? Why are people trying to hang on to something that's working so poorly?

[madlithuanian]

20 hours ago, adam said:

It may not be the most popular route to go, especially because Fields is such a great leader and teammate, but this group has won 10 games in the last 34. A 10-24 record. Fields is 8-22 in those games and 10-30 overall. This is not a tough decision. There is no way Fields returns. 

For Flus, you have to win the Division before you do anything else. He is 2-10 in the Division. I could care less about the improvement. It was clear it came from player acquisition and health, not some Flus magic. The Sweat trade and the players coming back from injury turned the defense around. Playing CAR, ATL, and ARZ helped. Also playing MIN with Dobbs. They are 1-3 in the last 4 games against real teams, 1-1 against DET, loss to CLE, loss to GB. Those are the only games that matter. 

I feel like I had some recency bias lately and the wins, because they are so rare were fool's gold. The Bears were beating bad teams, like they should. The roster is solid, but there are still holes to fill. I feel like the team would be stuck in neutral if they run this back. 

Could they make the playoffs with Fields, sure, but that is not saying much. This offense scares no one. The same QB that played against ATL at home was AWOL today in GB. That is sad and unfortunate, but it is the reality of the league. Take the name out of the equation, and just look at the body of work. It is subpar and the QB position needs to be upgraded to take the next step.

Agreed!