Poles please blow this thing up

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, madlithuanian said:

Agreed!

You can only play the schedule they gave you. We are not a good team, it's going to be year 4 before we can talk like that. Rarely do you ever see 3-14 winning teams win a  division's in a second year of a rebuild. There's a process to building a good team, we're not there yet. I get no one likes losing but experts predicted 7 wins and that's where we're at. Next year is the judgement year, no one ever expected year 2. 

[TravD]

I'd personally like to see Flus stay. Defensively, we have see a lot of improvement from the young players on the team. He was able to keep the team together through adversity and the lockeroom is one with good vibes from all accounts.  They need to get a coordinator and get the rest of that staff together. 

The complete opposite could be said of the offensive side of the ball. Clear it all out, and spend big on a OC with QB developmental experience and use him to bring in a good staff.

There's 5 or 6 coaches fired every year for just being really crap. Given the talent and Getsy limitations, I can't say he is necessarily a bad HC. The team fought all year. 

The only way I would want him gone is if they had an backroom deal with Harbaugh's agent that he's committed to coming here. There could be a lot worse than Flus imho. 

[madlithuanian]

1 hour ago, TravD said:

I'd personally like to see Flus stay. Defensively, we have see a lot of improvement from the young players on the team. He was able to keep the team together through adversity and the lockeroom is one with good vibes from all accounts.  They need to get a coordinator and get the rest of that staff together. 

The complete opposite could be said of the offensive side of the ball. Clear it all out, and spend big on a OC with QB developmental experience and use him to bring in a good staff.

There's 5 or 6 coaches fired every year for just being really crap. Given the talent and Getsy limitations, I can't say he is necessarily a bad HC. The team fought all year. 

The only way I would want him gone is if they had an backroom deal with Harbaugh's agent that he's committed to coming here. There could be a lot worse than Flus imho. 

fLose created the adversity!  He hired 2 horrible coordinators.  One on O and one who had to leave for questionable behavior.  We should be happy with mediocrity.  Coaching is an enormous part of the NFL.  We keep hiring checkers players when all the good ones play chess. 

Harbaugh for sure!  fLose literally got us the worst record in Bears history.  Not sure how much worse we could get...

[BearFan PHX]

7 minutes ago, madlithuanian said:

fLose created the adversity!  He hired 2 horrible coordinators.  One on O and one who had to leave for questionable behavior.  We should be happy with mediocrity.  Coaching is an enormous part of the NFL.  We keep hiring checkers players when all the good ones play chess. 

Harbaugh for sure!  fLose literally got us the worst record in Bears history.  Not sure how much worse we could get...

even if you leave last season out of it, youve got situational football errors starting with that 4th and 1 TE sneak against the Packers in the opener. All the short runs out of the gun. Managing 3rd and 4th and short. Keeping Sweat off the field at the end of the game because of the rotation. Calling games too safe. and three historic losses that were 99% wins.

All of these are unforced errors. none of them is a result of the other team's players being better. Theyre all straight up mistakes.

Add to this all the times we got outcoached and you've got PLENTY to fire him for even if you dont include last year.

[madlithuanian]

19 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

even if you leave last season out of it, youve got situational football errors starting with that 4th and 1 TE sneak against the Packers in the opener. All the short runs out of the gun. Managing 3rd and 4th and short. Keeping Sweat off the field at the end of the game because of the rotation. Calling games too safe. and three historic losses that were 99% wins.

All of these are unforced errors. none of them is a result of the other team's players being better. Theyre all straight up mistakes.

Add to this all the times we got outcoached and you've got PLENTY to fire him for even if you dont include last year.

Yes

[TravD]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-head-coach-coaching-candidates-2024/6b38ac81d366251b96057335

Let's take this article per example. 

Ben Johnson: They should have lost to the Bears twice this year. 

Bienemy: Left Kansas to prove himself, they have the second pick in the draft this year. 

Mike MacDonald: He's D, and if we get a new coach it has to be O. 

Slowik: First year as an OC and Stroud may just be that guy. It's like hiring Getsy as the HC, because he worked with Rodgers. I'm sure he did a good job getting the best out of Stroud, but he certainly didn't "develop him in the preseason. 

Frank Smith: Impressive resume of who he has worked with. His current success is Mike McDaniel.

Ejiro Evero: DC for the Panthers, need I say more.

Dave Canales: First year OC for Tampa, was a QB coach the year before with Geno.

 I am not saying there are no good candidates out there, and that these won't turn out. Getsy's D staff being able to make noticeable progression in young D players, getting players to play hard all season, and overall statements from the players about the locker room are major factors to me.  We don't have our Andy Reed in experience on O and as HC, no up and comer brilliant mind like Mike McDaniel, and no legacy NFL coach with years of experience as OC like Kyle Shanahan.   I'm personally fine seeing what Flus can do for one more year, rather than gamble on the unknowns available. I'd be all in on Harbaugh. 

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, madlithuanian said:

fLose created the adversity!  He hired 2 horrible coordinators.  One on O and one who had to leave for questionable behavior.  We should be happy with mediocrity.  Coaching is an enormous part of the NFL.  We keep hiring checkers players when all the good ones play chess. 

Harbaugh for sure!  fLose literally got us the worst record in Bears history.  Not sure how much worse we could get...

So you hire a person that you know professionally, he ends up having some secret perversion and you have to fire him. That information never ends up on a resume. How is that Flus fault? It could be something as simple as hitting on a girl in the office and she turns you in for sexism at work. Nobody knows the reason, but at least you have standards and dont sweep in under the rug, and over look it. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I think Poles calls Jim tomorrow to congratulate him and asks if he would like to be the HC of the Bears. Tells him he can choose to work with JF or he can have his pick from the litter.

[BearFan PHX]

27 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I think Poles calls Jim tomorrow to congratulate him and asks if he would like to be the HC of the Bears. Tells him he can choose to work with JF or he can have his pick from the litter.

I think that definitely happens. Whether he says yes or not is another story. But theyve got to at least reach out and see.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

47 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I think Poles calls Jim tomorrow to congratulate him and asks if he would like to be the HC of the Bears. Tells him he can choose to work with JF or he can have his pick from the litter.

Or Kevin Warren.  Would make for an interesting pairing given their history.

 

[BearFan PHX]

5 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Or Kevin Warren.  Would make for an interesting pairing given their history.

 

That is extremely interesting, Grizz.

Obviously Warren is ingratiating himself with some members of the press that he will need as he manages the Bears' image over the next however many years.

I wonder if he had any particular influence on them, asking them to hold off on reporting some kinds of things, or encouraging them to report some kinds of things.

Some reporters get closer access in exchange for Warren getting more access too.

It may be as simple as just to set up connections and conduits for draft smoke, but who here wouldn't have loved to be a fly on the wall for that meeting?

[ParkerBear7]

These two posts are very damning to both ‘Flus & Getsy coaching/ play calling and is enough to warrant their dismissal.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

6 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

That is extremely interesting, Grizz.

Obviously Warren is ingratiating himself with some members of the press that he will need as he manages the Bears' image over the next however many years.

I wonder if he had any particular influence on them, asking them to hold off on reporting some kinds of things, or encouraging them to report some kinds of things.

Some reporters get closer access in exchange for Warren getting more access too.

It may be as simple as just to set up connections and conduits for draft smoke, but who here wouldn't have loved to be a fly on the wall for that meeting?

I think an article I posted Sunday mentioned Warren will address the state of the Bears after they conclude the season the following week. The game didn't go as they had hoped, so it might take a couple of days to soak in and not react as many fans did wanting to burn it all down 

[Lucky Luciano]

 BearFan PHX

it does seem like we keep making the same mistakes over and over. Its new people trying it, but we have no organizational memory.

for years not only have we basically given our defensive playbook to our division rivals who play us twice a year, but to the entire  nfl. they have seen it here since lovie smith became head coach and back in the 90's before that. it is the same defensive design with a few twists and variations.

they beat our soft zone with quick release 8-10 yd. routes (which they also utilize the 5 yd chuck rule). many times we have not a soul in sight when the catch is made as most of our db's are past the first down marker. they do this a lot if not all game.  

at best, we possibly choke it to a field goal once they reach the red zone because the field is more condensed. it's large amounts of yardage to create first downs, create riding time (OUR offense is on the sideline) and move the sticks.

even if we had reggie white on one side and richard dent on the other there just isn't enough  time to get to the qb on these quick routes. favre and rogers have made a living on us for over 20 years doing this yet we keep plodding on with de ja' vue all over again.

add to this a mixup of running plays, crossing routes and deep routes we are forever on our heels.

basically they know what defense we will run on each play by the formation and player inserts.

How many OC's have come in thinking the WR screen was gonna be our thing? Over and over they try the same things, they don't look at film from the previous coaches. As an organization, we don't learn.

since trestman or before? how many times can you run the same designed play over a course of 20 years and expect to fool anyone?

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I think an article I posted Sunday mentioned Warren will address the state of the Bears after they conclude the season the following week. The game didn't go as they had hoped, so it might take a couple of days to soak in and not react as many fans did wanting to burn it all down 

To be fair, that screen shot I found was posted back sometime in December.  Still I would think the thought process will remain to some level. 

[Stinger226]

Vangio was running a 3-4 and we were still attacked in the underneath. That's how teams attack good defenses. I don't think the mentality is transferred from different regime to regime. We need a strong 3 T to upset the Apple cart with the short passing game. Dexter may get but isn't yet.

For everyone that wants Harbaugh as a coach, did you watch how he won last night? Strong defense, running the ball, play action passing. If anyone thinks he's coming with a KC passing attack is kidding themselves. Not saying he won't adjust, but beware what you ask for. Not saying he can't win.

[lemonej]

23 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

You need to comment more, all your statements are spot on. We have never seen a complete rebuild before and this is what it looks like. It's not instant success, it's probably takes 4 years and lots of growing pains. I think Po!es is right on schedule with his rebuild plan. You, like me are just impatient because of all the losing over the years. Next year his has to start winning and year 4 it's a run to the SB. He never told anyone that was going to happen in yr 2. 

I can't say I haven't seen a rebuild before since I witnessed when team president Mugsy Halas lured Jim Finks from Minnesota to become GM and rebuild the Bears. He had to build the Bears from the ground up because prior to his arrival the Bears were really bad. He started by building in the trenches. It took 3 years before they became a playoff team under Jack Pardee. He left the Bears for Washington and then Neil Armstrong was hired and brought Buddy Ryan as his DC. The team took a step back the next year and made the playoffs the following year after having 2 top 10 draft picks which sounds familiar to now. Dan Hampton and Al Harris were the 2. Poles has an opportunity to make this all better with the right choices.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Vangio was running a 3-4 and we were still attacked in the underneath. That's how teams attack good defenses. I don't think the mentality is transferred from different regime to regime. We need a strong 3 T to upset the Apple cart with the short passing game. Dexter may get but isn't yet.

For everyone that wants Harbaugh as a coach, did you watch how he won last night? Strong defense, running the ball, play action passing. If anyone thinks he's coming with a KC passing attack is kidding themselves. Not saying he won't adjust, but beware what you ask for. Not saying he can't win.

And he took SF to the Super Bowl with Kaepernick as his QB.  And this was despite having Alex Smith on the roster. 

Ironically Fangio was his DC in SF if memory serves.  

[Stinger226]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

And he took SF to the Super Bowl with Kaepernick as his QB.  And this was despite having Alex Smith on the roster. 

Ironically Fangio was his DC in SF if memory serves.  

I'm not saying he won't be successful but he's not bringing a passing circus with him if he gets the job.

[madlithuanian]

18 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

So you hire a person that you know professionally, he ends up having some secret perversion and you have to fire him. That information never ends up on a resume. How is that Flus fault? It could be something as simple as hitting on a girl in the office and she turns you in for sexism at work. Nobody knows the reason, but at least you have standards and dont sweep in under the rug, and over look it. 

One such error is forgivable.  2 is a trend.  It's his fault because he hired them both. If you have no accountability for your hires, how exactly does that work?  It wasn't fLose that let those people go.  It was either Warren or Poles or the combo of both.  There is a trend of lack of accountability on fLose's part.  This is one of many instances. 

If you want to blindly follow a man with so many issues on and off the field, go nuts.  I'm out on him.  If he proves me wrong, I'd be happier than a pig in slop.  But, I've been around long enough to know when to fold em.  

[BearFan PHX]

59 minutes ago, madlithuanian said:

If you want to blindly follow a man with so many issues on and off the field, go nuts.  I'm out on him.  If he proves me wrong, I'd be happier than a pig in slop.  But, I've been around long enough to know when to fold em.  

especially when that man hasnt proven to be a positive difference maker in giving you an edge to beat opponents, and has in fact been outcoached most of the season.

Also, this thread is about blowing it up, but with the exception of the QB, the roster stays, we dont lose ground, we wouldnt be starting from ground zero, wed be starting from here.

[adam]

1 hour ago, madlithuanian said:

One such error is forgivable.  2 is a trend.  It's his fault because he hired them both. If you have no accountability for your hires, how exactly does that work?  It wasn't fLose that let those people go.  It was either Warren or Poles or the combo of both.  There is a trend of lack of accountability on fLose's part.  This is one of many instances. 

If you want to blindly follow a man with so many issues on and off the field, go nuts.  I'm out on him.  If he proves me wrong, I'd be happier than a pig in slop.  But, I've been around long enough to know when to fold em.  

Two is a trend, and you not only had those personnel issues, which the leader is ultimately responsible for, you had the 3x collapses on the field. Again, one, ok, two? Come on, but 3? He should've been fired after that Cleveland game. 

[BearFan PHX]

3 minutes ago, adam said:

Two is a trend, and you not only had those personnel issues, which the leader is ultimately responsible for, you had the 3x collapses on the field. Again, one, ok, two? Come on, but 3? He should've been fired after that Cleveland game. 

and point to one time that he gave the team an edge in winning?

[BearFan PHX]

If the team was 100% bringing Flus back, they'd have announced that already. No reason for all these rumors to swirl around unaddressed.

I suppose it stands to reason that if they knew 100% that they were firing him they'd have done that already too?

I think they are waiting to hear from Harbaugh before they do anything.

[adam]

16 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

If the team was 100% bringing Flus back, they'd have announced that already. No reason for all these rumors to swirl around unaddressed.

I suppose it stands to reason that if they knew 100% that they were firing him they'd have done that already too?

I think they are waiting to hear from Harbaugh before they do anything.

That's the thing, do teams even announce that when coaches are under contract? Same with players, normally they are on the team without an announcement or cut/traded with an announcement.

I know Ted Phillips and McCaskey did that silly press conference, but that seemed more of a one off than anything.

I have to do some Google searches as I am honestly curious on that one.