Stinger226 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 6 minutes ago, adam said: It could also mean they are extending Flus at least thru 2026 to give the incoming OC some predictability, versus coaching for a potential lame duck HC. Flus has 2 yrs left on his contract, logic says to align the contract with a new OC, but it's not necessarily going to happen. Poles has a 5 year deal, so I think they extend Flus for one year and give new coaches 3 years contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 et tu Adam? The cheap extension of Fields is an interesting thought although I don't see it happening. If that extension worked out it would help with re-signing Poles first draft players like Gordon and Brisker. Pairing it with a similar trade down as we did last year which I see as being very likely (he does two trades down in top 10) yields 3 picks in 1st Rd in 2025. To walk out of this draft with 2 good WRs, backup OT, starting caliber RG and Center, and starting caliber Safety is pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 1 hour ago, AZ54 said: et tu Adam? The cheap extension of Fields is an interesting thought although I don't see it happening. If that extension worked out it would help with re-signing Poles first draft players like Gordon and Brisker. Pairing it with a similar trade down as we did last year which I see as being very likely (he does two trades down in top 10) yields 3 picks in 1st Rd in 2025. To walk out of this draft with 2 good WRs, backup OT, starting caliber RG and Center, and starting caliber Safety is pretty good. Likes: cheap contract extension for Justin, WR Rice (via draft) and initially wasn’t a fan of the QB from Tenn. But once he explained the ‘system QB development’ concept it made sense. Bagent doesn’t quite match that. Really likes: 3 1sts and 2(?) 2nds in 2025. If he pulls that off, he’s a wizard. Dislikes: none really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted January 11 Author Report Share Posted January 11 10 hours ago, AZ54 said: et tu Adam? The cheap extension of Fields is an interesting thought although I don't see it happening. If that extension worked out it would help with re-signing Poles first draft players like Gordon and Brisker. Pairing it with a similar trade down as we did last year which I see as being very likely (he does two trades down in top 10) yields 3 picks in 1st Rd in 2025. To walk out of this draft with 2 good WRs, backup OT, starting caliber RG and Center, and starting caliber Safety is pretty good. At this point, Fields camp has zero precedence for a top 10 contract based on his production. There are ranges, and Fields would be more in line with a Daniel Jones type contract than a Justin Herbert contract unless Fields breaks out. You could even say his current performance level puts his 5th year option in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 14 hours ago, AZ54 said: et tu Adam? The cheap extension of Fields is an interesting thought although I don't see it happening. If that extension worked out it would help with re-signing Poles first draft players like Gordon and Brisker. Pairing it with a similar trade down as we did last year which I see as being very likely (he does two trades down in top 10) yields 3 picks in 1st Rd in 2025. To walk out of this draft with 2 good WRs, backup OT, starting caliber RG and Center, and starting caliber Safety is pretty good. Would love that if it actually worked out that way. One thing will be different, I think we don't get Wilkens and bring back Justin Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, Stinger226 said: Would love that if it actually worked out that way. One thing will be different, I think we don't get Wilkens and bring back Justin Jones. Wilkins might be a wishlist player but there is no reason to bring back Justin Jones. His best and only attribute has been leadership. We won’t need that next year and we will need more production out of the 3 tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 43 minutes ago, AZ54 said: His best and only attribute has been leadership. He was the team’s nominee for the Walter Payton award…but yeah. Speaking of leadership, saw in that presser yesterday Poles and Flus went out of their way to herald Marcedes Lewis on his leadership. They said he was especially helpful in the locker room which I imagine was quite interesting early on. Hope to see him back next year. He blocks great and didn’t drop any passes thrown to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 11 Report Share Posted January 11 54 minutes ago, AZ54 said: Wilkins might be a wishlist player but there is no reason to bring back Justin Jones. His best and only attribute has been leadership. We won’t need that next year and we will need more production out of the 3 tech. I think they bring him back if they don't get a higher end FA or don't nab one early in the draft. His stats seem decent to me 49 Ts, 4.5 sacks, 10 TFL, 17 QB hits, 4 PDs. They definitely need to upgrade but if they fail, bring him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 5 hours ago, Stinger226 said: I think they bring him back if they don't get a higher end FA or don't nab one early in the draft. His stats seem decent to me 49 Ts, 4.5 sacks, 10 TFL, 17 QB hits, 4 PDs. They definitely need to upgrade but if they fail, bring him back. Yeah but watching some film, usually of other players like Dexter, he seems to get pushed around an awful lot. Sometimes 5 yards downfield. Seems like it's hit or big miss with him. OTC says he's worth $6mil/yr again like his recent deal with us, but I'd rather find someone young with more upside for that position. I'd take a shot on Chris Jones if he remains available and he's still asking around $20mil/yr. If you prefer an ideal Poles target check out Madubuike, 26yr old entering his prime. He's got the quick first step you need at 3-tech and has some power to his game. The Ravens have just $17mil in cap space for 2024 and that's with only 44 players rostered and no easy big money cap cuts. They can free up maybe $10-15mil if they cut a few players but the rookie pool will eat up $10mil. Rostering 9 (or 12) players with $17mil gets eaten up fast and their FAs are some of their good players not the least of which is Patrick Queen. OTC has Madubuike valued at $15.5mil/yr but popular FAs always get overpaid, and pass rushers with 10 sacks are in demand, so he'll likely get closer to $18mil/yr. Paired up with Sweat on the outside, Dexter on the nose, and a top 10 DE at RDE and no QB is going to have much time to throw. Just need to add a good safety and the D is complete. With Madubuike and the DE that need drops a bit. Plus there appears to be some decent vet FA options we might be able to fill with a $5mil/yr deal. You got 1 draft pick for DE and all other picks can be offense if you want. Rookie pools: https://overthecap.com/draft https://overthecap.com/free-agency/baltimore-ravens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 45 minutes ago, AZ54 said: Yeah but watching some film, usually of other players like Dexter, he seems to get pushed around an awful lot. Sometimes 5 yards downfield. Seems like it's hit or big miss with him. OTC says he's worth $6mil/yr again like his recent deal with us, but I'd rather find someone young with more upside for that position. I'd take a shot on Chris Jones if he remains available and he's still asking around $20mil/yr. If you prefer an ideal Poles target check out Madubuike, 26yr old entering his prime. He's got the quick first step you need at 3-tech and has some power to his game. The Ravens have just $17mil in cap space for 2024 and that's with only 44 players rostered and no easy big money cap cuts. They can free up maybe $10-15mil if they cut a few players but the rookie pool will eat up $10mil. Rostering 9 (or 12) players with $17mil gets eaten up fast and their FAs are some of their good players not the least of which is Patrick Queen. OTC has Madubuike valued at $15.5mil/yr but popular FAs always get overpaid, and pass rushers with 10 sacks are in demand, so he'll likely get closer to $18mil/yr. Paired up with Sweat on the outside, Dexter on the nose, and a top 10 DE at RDE and no QB is going to have much time to throw. Just need to add a good safety and the D is complete. With Madubuike and the DE that need drops a bit. Plus there appears to be some decent vet FA options we might be able to fill with a $5mil/yr deal. You got 1 draft pick for DE and all other picks can be offense if you want. Rookie pools: https://overthecap.com/draft https://overthecap.com/free-agency/baltimore-ravens All that sounds good, Poles is going to tag JJ at 17.4 mil and I don't think he pays another 17 mil contract. He seems to only do one a year. He should be able to get a FS and OC in free agency for around 10 mil a piece. There's 3 center upgrades, but not sure of talent at S this year. Dexter is getter better but need more talent at 3 T, draft or FA. We might be in position to draft Newton, which would be a good get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 10 hours ago, Stinger226 said: All that sounds good, Poles is going to tag JJ at 17.4 mil and I don't think he pays another 17 mil contract. He seems to only do one a year. He should be able to get a FS and OC in free agency for around 10 mil a piece. There's 3 center upgrades, but not sure of talent at S this year. Dexter is getter better but need more talent at 3 T, draft or FA. We might be in position to draft Newton, which would be a good get. I'm waiting on the combine to get a better sense of where Newton fits in. I have concerns about his length and he's not Aaron Donald elite with his athleticism to get around that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 48 minutes ago, AZ54 said: I'm waiting on the combine to get a better sense of where Newton fits in. I have concerns about his length and he's not Aaron Donald elite with his athleticism to get around that. I don't know enough about the players to make an honest assumption who's good and who isn't. Poles will do an in-depth look, just see players that sound good for what little information I have. He's supposed to be the top 3T of which would make our defense an elite squad. I remember Poles loved Travis Bell last year, so he's trying to fix that position. He is the same size as Newton is . Dexter may be that guy, the most jump players make is yr2 when entering the NFL. Need more talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 12 hours ago, AZ54 said: I'd take a shot on Chris Jones if he remains available and he's still asking around $20mil/yr As of now, I'm hearing closer to 30m/yr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 Draft Strategy: Bears know they need to develop a real offense to be sustainable. Poles know(s) it takes special talent to get there. He can see that as strong of a leader as Field(s) is - that his issues are deeper than just having a lousy QB and knows this is a once in a generation chance in front of him. 1st Round: Draft Caleb @ 1 Draft Odunze @ 9 Commentary: I should give back drop that I expect the top 3 picks to be QB's (Caleb/Maye/Daniels - in whatever order they appear). When I look at the picks from 4-8, I think Poles will want to add another multiplier to the offense with the next pick. When I look at best available talent - I think you have 3 legitimate top 10 wideouts (MHJ, Rome Odunze, Naybors) and I think you have 2 top 10 LT's (ND & PSU guy). On the Defensive front - as of now - there are 2 borderline top 10 guys, but no slam dunk guy (Verse / Turner). My hope is with Poles addressing QB -> he uses other pick on offense, whether LT or WR. My impression is he's happy with where Jones is, so I think he would prefer to address wideout in the draft vs. taking an LT. This is not to say he won't address interior line in the draft (or free agency), I suspect he will. So when I break this down - my view is for the Bears to have a chance at one of the 3 wideouts - you need 3 QB's to go off the board before pick 9 (a 4th going would be even better - but I don't see 4 going in Top 10 - unless Atlanta falls in love with JJ McCarthy or Penix). They will need the 2 LT's to be drafted, 2 WR's I see for sure being gone, and you need at least one defensive player selected (Verse or Dallas Turner or a surprise). I think worse case scenario for the Bears is - you take your QB at the top, all 3 WR's are of the board, & both LT's are off the board - leaving you looking at taking the best edge player at 9. I say that in the sense that this doesn't seem like a year where you have a no brainer edge player, not that the Bears don't have a need at this spot. But if this works out - this could be where the Bears actually slide back down a few slides - move into the mid teens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said: As of now, I'm hearing closer to 30m/yr Run away from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 So everyone remember about a year ago when we were all excited about going into the draft with finally having a 1st round pick again and that ‘all the talk’ (eventually) had us getting Jalen Carter? Who knew at that time we’d end up doing what we’d do? I personally feel that the hype leading up to the draft for either Williams or Maye is similar to what occurred last year. How it all plays out is all speculative but I can say I’m confident enough in Poles’ ability to say that I’m excited for April 25th to get here. And I usually don’t get all that excited for drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 31 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said: So everyone remember about a year ago when we were all excited about going into the draft with finally having a 1st round pick again and that ‘all the talk’ (eventually) had us getting Jalen Carter? Who knew at that time we’d end up doing what we’d do? I personally feel that the hype leading up to the draft for either Williams or Maye is similar to what occurred last year. How it all plays out is all speculative but I can say I’m confident enough in Poles’ ability to say that I’m excited for April 25th to get here. And I usually don’t get all that excited for drafts. I remember the talk on here, that most of us didn't want Jalen Carter, due to us having a young team and not wanting someone that couldn't pass a conditioning drill. All told the Talkbears consortium was Wright. My guess is, we'll figure it out before the draft and our brain trust here will lead Lord Poles to the correct decision again. The stars are aligning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 39 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said: So everyone remember about a year ago when we were all excited about going into the draft with finally having a 1st round pick again and that ‘all the talk’ (eventually) had us getting Jalen Carter? Who knew at that time we’d end up doing what we’d do? I personally feel that the hype leading up to the draft for either Williams or Maye is similar to what occurred last year. How it all plays out is all speculative but I can say I’m confident enough in Poles’ ability to say that I’m excited for April 25th to get here. And I usually don’t get all that excited for drafts. As much as I love Justin, if there's a Burrows type in this draft, Poles will take him. The evaluation is the key, if there's work ethic or character issues, he ain't taking any of them. The experts ( who have no accountability) says Williams is special. Justin will never be a tier one but that doesn't mean you can't win with him. Would everyone be okay with a Joe Burrow type first year? 2700-13-5. Poles knew Roquan Smith was an excellent LB but between the negotiations and his desired value, he declined to keep him and got a cheaper Edwards that was almost as good and a 2 nd round pick. Is he going to decide if draft capital and Justin is a better choice than Williams? We will find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 9 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said: I remember the talk on here, that most of us didn't want Jalen Carter, due to us having a young team and not wanting someone that couldn't pass a conditioning drill. All told the Talkbears consortium was Wright. My guess is, we'll figure it out before the draft and our brain trust here will lead Lord Poles to the correct decision again. The stars are aligning... As a group think , we genuinely figure out what's best but the Flus and Justin questions are so divided, not sure we ever come to a consensus on those issues. Am I wrong, or did most of us want Flus or new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted January 12 Author Report Share Posted January 12 I think the OC and QB Coach choice will be a small indicator. If they go with someone who specializes or has worked with QBs in a quick passing game/tempo offense, I think they would lean towards drafting a QB better suited for that style. If they bring in a set of coaches that have worked with mobile QBs, RPO Game, etc, then it probably leans back towards Fields returning and stocking up on more draft capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 10 minutes ago, Stinger226 said: As a group think , we genuinely figure out what's best but the Flus and Justin questions are so divided, not sure we ever come to a consensus on those issues. Am I wrong, or did most of us want Flus or new? I’d have to check the data on Wright discussions from last year…but… As far as Flus goes, I was personally uncommitted. I can see the value of Flus staying but was a fan (to a degree) of Harbaugh returning to the NFL by way of Chicago. Cooler storyline but the recent crap in Michigan bugged me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 40 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said: My guess is, we'll figure it out before the draft and our brain trust here will lead Lord Poles to the correct decision again. I think Poles listens to my comments the most LOLOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 22 minutes ago, adam said: I think the OC and QB Coach choice will be a small indicator. If they go with someone who specializes or has worked with QBs in a quick passing game/tempo offense, I think they would lean towards drafting a QB better suited for that style. If they bring in a set of coaches that have worked with mobile QBs, RPO Game, etc, then it probably leans back towards Fields returning and stocking up on more draft capital. unless they are all in on Williams and want to run the same type of offense that would work with Fields. But for me, yes, I want to see a QB who can make reads and execute the offense in rhythm. And then whatever other skills they have are an added bonus that gets you a first down or two on every drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said: So everyone remember about a year ago when we were all excited about going into the draft with finally having a 1st round pick again and that ‘all the talk’ (eventually) had us getting Jalen Carter? Who knew at that time we’d end up doing what we’d do? I personally feel that the hype leading up to the draft for either Williams or Maye is similar to what occurred last year. How it all plays out is all speculative but I can say I’m confident enough in Poles’ ability to say that I’m excited for April 25th to get here. And I usually don’t get all that excited for drafts. I think I said last year QB's would go early and often too. I guarantee the same will happen this year. You might get some misinformation, but closer and closer to the draft - QB will be at the top and barring some significant injury - it is pretty clear there are 3 that stand above all and a possibility a 4th jumps into that mix. I do agree there could be some people who put up ridiculous combines or something else and jump there way into the back end of the top 10 - but this is a really strong draft and a number of these guys have been hyped for a long time (in particular Maye & Williams). They have the fortune or unfortune of being assessed for forever. Like Peyton Manning did (NOT SAYING THEY ARE THEM), but people forget all the chatter, do you take Ryan Leaf over Peyton, etc. It's happened with everyone. Andrew Luck's final year wasn't as good....Deshaun Watson people I think discounted him for how good he was (and again - he went off the rails - but his first few years were really really good). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted January 12 Report Share Posted January 12 20 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said: do you take Ryan Leaf over Peyton, etc. Full disclosure, I was sure Ryan Leaf would do better when it came time for him in the NFL. Who knew he was such a head case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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