Alaskan Grizzly Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 The only reason I found that post was because Diana Russini, someone we recently discussed having any validity, posted the same thing. Lying season is strong… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Welp - they either keep him and he walks next year in FA for a comp pick (hopefully a 3rd round grade) or you keep him and trade him later in the off-season or even in-season to a team that has an injury to their QB. Or you maybe get a 4th rounder for him. God I hope it is something more but it seems like the NFL has spoken and none of us know what Poles asking price is - but teams around the league are choosing a lot of other players over Fields (and whatever Poles is asking for). Unless Vikings want him - and they are supposedly looking at Sam D'Arnold. Or we get surprised by a team who brings him in as a back-up or bridge guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 all she did there was pass on that the other person had said that. Do you think when she says she went to the combine and met with GMs and NFL people and asked them and then said what they told her, that she was lying? Again, she didnt ask teams that are in this game, she asked league wide. The market for Justin is weak. To think otherwise youd have to think that a bunch of teams REALLY want Fields bad, but are holding back to get the lowest price while these teams are signing QBs before Fields. So if they wanted Fields, why didnt they trade for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 15 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: Do you think when she says she went to the combine and met with GMs and NFL people and asked them and then said what they told her, that she was lying? Nope, just that she’s not as informed or an insider as she may let on. Look I used to be a semi-fan of hers when she used to be a semi-contributer to the LeBetard-Stugotz show while on ESPN. Since LeBetard went on his own I haven’t heard from (or about) her in awhile. 18 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: So if they wanted Fields, why didnt they trade for him? I know the answer to that question as well as you do. We can both speculate and both be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 28 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said: Nope, just that she’s not as informed or an insider as she may let on. Look I used to be a semi-fan of hers when she used to be a semi-contributer to the LeBetard-Stugotz show while on ESPN. Since LeBetard went on his own I haven’t heard from (or about) her in awhile. I know the answer to that question as well as you do. We can both speculate and both be wrong. ok well I cant really debate what you said. youre certainly right that she probably doesnt have her finger on the deep pulse. Im not putting her forward as any kind of expert, but i do think she got a sense of the general feeling about Fields. The only reason i used her as an example the other day was to say that im not the only one who thinks it's obvious that Justin isnt great. I think outside of Chicago a lot of people think that. So her strong reaction to not even believing the question was real I thought was an example of that, but certainly not that everything she says is gold or anything like that. Youre right that we are both speculating. i cant argue that. I do think if Poles doesnt draft a rookie QB high in this draft it will be a huge mistake. Trading from #1 to #2 for some reason I dunno. I like Williams the best, but if they take someone else, i will watch more film on them. If they just roll with Fields though, that's not gonna work out. I am morally certain of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 It's really quite simple. Cousins, Mayfield, and Wilson were all free agents with no draft capital involved. All three established veterans. Mac Jones went cheap as a backup, low risk for late round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, Pixote said: It's really quite simple. Cousins, Mayfield, and Wilson were all free agents with no draft capital involved. All three established veterans. Mac Jones went cheap as a backup, low risk for late round pick. yeah, except if people thought Justin was great, theyd have been willing to spend more and hed be signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Did you see where Brian Burns was traded t NYG, signing for 150M / 5 years! It's really getting crazy stupid, 30M a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, BearFan PHX said: yeah, except if people thought Justin was great, theyd have been willing to spend more and hed be signed. Yes, we know you don't like Fields as a QB. Yes, we get it. Believe me, we all know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Just now, Pixote said: Yes, we know you don't like Fields as a QB. Yes, we get it. Believe me, we all know! oh thats true, but what I said here was that the league doesnt value him, not what I think about him. And it was a response to your argument that the others got signed because there was no draft capital involved. Because you like Fields as a QB. Yes, we get it. Believe me, we all know! i.e. it's ok for me to stay in the discussion just like you. But to the POINT, every year around this time, teams spend draft capital to trade for players. So that's not it. They just don't want Justin at any kind of price that values him, or they'd have made moves for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 24 minutes ago, Pixote said: Did you see where Brian Burns was traded t NYG, signing for 150M / 5 years! It's really getting crazy stupid, 30M a year? Yeah - made Sweat deal look even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 9 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: oh thats true, but what I said here was that the league doesnt value him, not what I think about him. And it was a response to your argument that the others got signed because there was no draft capital involved. Because you like Fields as a QB. Yes, we get it. Believe me, we all know! i.e. it's ok for me to stay in the discussion just like you. But to the POINT, every year around this time, teams spend draft capital to trade for players. So that's not it. They just don't want Justin at any kind of price that values him, or they'd have made moves for him. And you missed my point... Quote no draft capital is involved. All three established veterans. A team would be crazy to gamble on Fields with solid veterans available, especially if they can obtain him w/o giving up draft picks. You seem to think anyone who has positive things to say about Fields thinks he is a generational/francise QB. Many of us who like Fields, and see some positive traits, realize we still need to draft a QB. I said it before, on a scale of 1 to 10, ten being the best, you see Fields as a 0, not even reaching 1. Whereas, many of us who see some positive traits in Fields, play, would probably rate him between 4 and 6. Not good enough to be a francise savior, but not garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 23 minutes ago, Pixote said: Yes, we know you don't like Fields as a QB. Yes, we get it. Believe me, we all know! I still think - if I were FIeld(s) - I would want to make sure I end up somewhere and get a real chance to play. If I don't - I'm not starting with the Bears (presuming they take Caleb), so worse case I stay in Chicago for a year as a backup and are signing a 1YR prove it deal which is a pretty big risk for him. IF he ends up in a bad situation - he could be benched real fast for some 4th rounder they take a shot at and than be in backup h*ll. So If I were Field(s), I'd have my agent working with a team - say it is Seattle or New England - and I'll agree to a 2YR 35M extension (so 17.5M per season) - guaranteed. So I work this year on my cheap rookie deal, than am agreeing to 2 discounted years in exchange for guaranteed money. Now Seattle or New England have motivation to make this move and give up capital - this isn't a 1YR proposition and if Field(s) is solid I'm getting a QB at a reasonable price (as far as QB's go) and am not hamstrung by the cap. If Field(s) isn't good - he's a backup and not a huge risk down the road but if he hits - you have him for 2 more years and in 1-2 years you will give him a huge extension. Field(s) knows he has general weatlth and a real chance to start - which is what it will take to ever get a big LT contract. If Field(s) ends up not being very good - at least he got that payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 2 hours ago, dawhizz said: It’s early, but I’m not thrilled that the Packers and Vikings are both making bigger upgrades than the Bears so far: Vikings - Greenard, Van Ginkel Packers - Jacobs, McKinney Really need to close the deal with Danielle Hunter, IMO. They don't have pick 1+9. Minny has pick 12 but have a glaring hole at QB. Barring injuries, some people think Aaron Jones is a better RB. Hunter was better than Greenard last year., McKinney is a p!us but Byard is not far behind. Those teams payed big money, we got deals Look at who they lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 13 minutes ago, Pixote said: And you missed my point... A team would be crazy to gamble on Fields with solid veterans available, especially if they can obtain him w/o giving up draft picks. You seem to think anyone who has positive things to say about Fields thinks he is a generational/francise QB. Many of us who like Fields, and see some positive traits, realize we still need to draft a QB. I said it before, on a scale of 1 to 10, ten being the best, you see Fields as a 0, not even reaching 1. Whereas, many of us who see some positive traits in Fields, play, would probably rate him between 4 and 6. Not good enough to be a francise savior, but not garbage. Never looked at it on a scale before but you are absolutely right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Pixote said: Whereas, many of us who see some positive traits in Fields, play, would probably rate him between 4 and 6. Not good enough to be a francise savior, but not garbage. Excellent work Pix…once again. I’d say I’m in the camp that JF is more closer to 6+ and just needs a real OC (maybe Waldron is it?) and more pieces to be successful. And in using your scale I’d say Williams is N/A or TBD because he has yet to play an NFL down. Is that to say he can’t be ‘all that’? No. But I’m not dismissive of the idea to select another QB that could provide competition to JF. In fact, in my ‘Waldron deep dive’ I’ve found his style offense could work with either a rookie QB as well as a beat up veteran like Geno Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Pixote said: And you missed my point... A team would be crazy to gamble on Fields with solid veterans available, especially if they can obtain him w/o giving up draft picks. You seem to think anyone who has positive things to say about Fields thinks he is a generational/francise QB. Many of us who like Fields, and see some positive traits, realize we still need to draft a QB. I said it before, on a scale of 1 to 10, ten being the best, you see Fields as a 0, not even reaching 1. Whereas, many of us who see some positive traits in Fields, play, would probably rate him between 4 and 6. Not good enough to be a francise savior, but not garbage. Id say he is a 4. As Ive said to anyone that will listen, over and over, he is an incredible runner in the open field, he has a really strong arm and can make all the throws. He also doesnt play in structure, cant read defenses, is one dimensional and NFL defenses cheat him because they know he wont punish them for it. Thats what makes him "garbage" (your word not mine) - he's like a rock paper scissors player that cant choose scissors. He might be great at rock and paper, but all you have to do is throw paper, and he cant win. His talents are diminished and negated by two things: 1) he is now told to slide in the open field instead of putting moves on defenders so he doesnt get hurt, which is smart. 2) he cant read defenses, play in structure and throw in tempo So until he does #2 consistently, defenses will use guys from the middle to clog running lanes and he is finished. Rock, Rock, Paper, Rock. Im gonna keep playing paper. You cant stop me until you learn to throw scissors, and you cant. Therefore, while he is a 4, he has 0 chance of winning a superbowl for us, so his VALUE to us is 0 *IF* you want to win a SB. If you just want to cheer and watch highlights, Justin is awesome. You're so mad at me. Its silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said: I still think - if I were FIeld(s) - I would want to make sure I end up somewhere and get a real chance to play. If I don't - I'm not starting with the Bears (presuming they take Caleb), so worse case I stay in Chicago for a year as a backup and are signing a 1YR prove it deal which is a pretty big risk for him. IF he ends up in a bad situation - he could be benched real fast for some 4th rounder they take a shot at and than be in backup h*ll. So If I were Field(s), I'd have my agent working with a team - say it is Seattle or New England - and I'll agree to a 2YR 35M extension (so 17.5M per season) - guaranteed. So I work this year on my cheap rookie deal, than am agreeing to 2 discounted years in exchange for guaranteed money. Now Seattle or New England have motivation to make this move and give up capital - this isn't a 1YR proposition and if Field(s) is solid I'm getting a QB at a reasonable price (as far as QB's go) and am not hamstrung by the cap. If Field(s) isn't good - he's a backup and not a huge risk down the road but if he hits - you have him for 2 more years and in 1-2 years you will give him a huge extension. Field(s) knows he has general weatlth and a real chance to start - which is what it will take to ever get a big LT contract. If Field(s) ends up not being very good - at least he got that payment. smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 18 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: You're so mad at me. Its silly. Why do you always think I'm mad at you? Because I disagree with you? Hell, I disagree with many forum posters. They don't accuse me of being mad at them simply because we disagree. We have healthy debates, respecting each other. I've seen you mention I am upset with you because of your argument with Stinger. No. I was disappointed with both of you for continuing to argue despite several moderators asking both of you to stop for the sake of the forum's health. I wasn't mad at either one of you, just frustrated. (You have no idea how many private messages I received asking me to put an end to your heated exchanges.) So no, I'm not mad at you and for you to continue to say I am is, as you always claim, silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 ?? Pix with the eloquent shit talk ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 40 minutes ago, Pixote said: Why do you always think I'm mad at you? Because I disagree with you? Hell, I disagree with many forum posters. They don't accuse me of being mad at them simply because we disagree. We have healthy debates, respecting each other. I've seen you mention I am upset with you because of your argument with Stinger. No. I was disappointed with both of you for continuing to argue despite several moderators asking both of you to stop for the sake of the forum's health. I wasn't mad at either one of you, just frustrated. (You have no idea how many private messages I received asking me to put an end to your heated exchanges.) So no, I'm not mad at you and for you to continue to say I am is, as you always claim, silly. no, because you say "we KNOW you think that obviously" in a sarcastic way to indicate that youre sick of reading it over and over like its too much. And that's fine - theres lots of shit talk on here. feel free, but then you pretend youre not LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 40 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: Id say he is a 4. As Ive said to anyone that will listen, over and over, he is an incredible runner in the open field, he has a really strong arm and can make all the throws. He also doesnt play in structure, cant read defenses, is one dimensional and NFL defenses cheat him because they know he wont punish them for it. Thats what makes him "garbage" (your word not mine) - he's like a rock paper scissors player that cant choose scissors. He might be great at rock and paper, but all you have to do is throw paper, and he cant win. His talents are diminished and negated by two things: 1) he is now told to slide in the open field instead of putting moves on defenders so he doesnt get hurt, which is smart. 2) he cant read defenses, play in structure and throw in tempo So until he does #2 consistently, defenses will use guys from the middle to clog running lanes and he is finished. Rock, Rock, Paper, Rock. Im gonna keep playing paper. You cant stop me until you learn to throw scissors, and you cant. Therefore, while he is a 4, he has 0 chance of winning a superbowl for us, so his VALUE to us is 0 *IF* you want to win a SB. If you just want to cheer and watch highlights, Justin is awesome. You're so mad at me. Its silly. Yes have bias when it comes to Justin, so many negative comments and then qualify it by saying you said something nice about him. I remember the game where he went 15-16,( something like that) , everyone on here is very positive and you say he looks good but he doesn't throw to his first read. You have such a hard time praising him even when he deserves it. No one that supports Justin believes he is the franchise QB but we do see room where he can get better. Here are some undeniable facts: We have the fist pick Justin is still a member of the Bears Williams is going to be the first player taken in the draft. Other than that everything is predicting the likely outcome of the future. No one has inside information. No one predicted Byard or Swift before it happened. Why are people so angry if they question that Williams might not be generational? Until he gets drafted, until he plays one year, no one knows that answer. There are many examples where high pick QBs have failed, only a few that actually became that. Luck, maybe Burrows, maybe Lawrence, maybe Herbert. No one drafted lately has proven that to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 21 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said: no, because you say "we KNOW you think that obviously" in a sarcastic way to indicate that youre sick of reading it over and over like its too much. And that's fine - theres lots of shit talk on here. feel free, but then you pretend youre not LOL What the hell did I just say that you did not understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 What happened to the emoticon that rolls from one side of the page to the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 10 minutes ago, killakrzydav said: What happened to the emoticon that rolls from one side of the page to the other? Let's start enjoying humor when it's presented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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