Shane Waldron hired as the new Bears OC

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan2000 said:

Here's the thing about Flus reportedly defending Fields.   Breer states it "as he understands it".    Breer wasn't in these interviews, context and what was actually said matters more than someone speculating on something someone else said.  Let's be careful taking someone's assumption based on second hand information as fact.  I'm guessing he may have asked some questions of some of the candidates that he then extrapolated from the answers he got.  Truth is we don't know what was said or not said in the interview.   His choice of the word "defend" could be to stir the pot because it implies Fields was attacked or disrespected in the interviews.  Comments in the interview could have been constructive criticism or mention of things he would need to improve on.  I highly doubt it went down like the candidates said "Fields sucks get rid of him" and Flus was like "no, you're going to keep Fields because of xyz.  Keep in mind sports writers and media in general thrive on conflict, stirring the pot, and riling people up.  Truth is Breer doesn't know, we don't know, only those in the interviews know the details and context of what was said or talked about.  

I have no doubt that everyone we interviewed has interest and ideas of how they would call an offense if we took Williams at #1.  They probably also had to consider what their offense would look like if we kept Fields, traded the #1 and added talent with the haul we'd get for the pick.  Because in reality both options are available to the Bears this draft season.  It could also be that they went with Waldron because he had the best plans for either direction Poles goes in the draft.  

I have found in the sports journalism world unless you're talking to a person in the meeting, you're getting opinions from journalists looking for clicks. 2_nd hand knowledge is never accepted in a court of law but on social media as being fact. Unless you find several sources pertaining to a subject, it's always made up bullshit. I only believe  info if I see it several times. So now unless I see at least two sources, I don't mention it.

I'm positive they were ask about their opinions on both Fields and every draft able QB. No candidate is going to call Fields a terrible QB or even a draftee. They give them an opinion based on their interaction with each player. They may like one better than the other but the language will never put Flus in a position to defend him. 

[Stinger226]

49 minutes ago, CrackerDog said:

Also, just read that Shane was pursued by New England and two other teams and he chose the Bears.  I assume that #1 pick has something to do with it.  

Also by NO, but not sure of the other team.

[BearFan PHX]

A few things.

First off Breer spoke directly to several of the OC candidates, so it's likely that the info came from them. Also Breer's personal prediction about Eberflus is different than his reporting on what key people have told him first hand.

Secondly, the word defend has a lot of meanings. I took it to mean that he said good things about Fields. That doesnt mean that they are keeping Fields, in fact i said in my original post about this that it could be a pre trade/draft/free agency smokescreen. So nothing can be "known"

The rest of what i said was *IF* they keep Fields. And if they do then i stand by everything I said.

But even just keeping Eberflus, they are already getting out the big shoes and red noses, even if they havent fully applied the white facepaint and mutlicolored curly wig yet.

The earlier you call something, the more people say "noooo you dont know that, that cant be true" - but I said what I said about Poles hugging and wanting to be accepted by the players and coaches before the Eberflus decision. If they get someone other than Fields, Im along for the ride, but if they keep Fields it's just the same damned Bears movie we've been watching since the 90s.

[Stinger226]

32 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

A couple data points:

1) Eberflus saying good things about Fields - doesn't mean he's overly loyal. I think everyone recognizes Field(s) work ethic, character, leadership and physical gifts are off the charts.  He checks almost every single box - it is why the decision is so hard.  He also I think is striking the right balance - if he went in and ripped Fields, what kind of a message does that send. Both in terms of - that will get its way back in Field(s) and does nothing good.  Beyond that - Flus saying good things about Field(s) prevents anything he says from tainting trade value or giving a tell. I also think there is just a purity of - having strong character and being kind - can actually be a good thing in the long run and how Flus & Poles handle stuff like this - some could say too nice - but on flipside, as long as you are steady in your actual decision-making and clear in communication, I think NFL players will respect that.  

2) Absolutely having a chance for people to know they are going to have an opportunity to work with either Fields or a potential #1 pick is going to drive value vs. an org who has David Carr or whatever there. Not knocking Carr, quite frankly he is 2x the QB production wise that Field(s) has ever been - but Carr is what he is at this point - a middle of the road vet. That isn't going to be that thrilling for an OC vs. a team with a #1 & #9 pick and tons of cap space.  

Nobody pursuing the OC job is going to say, I'm only taking the job if so and so is the QB. They know they don't get to choose. The best thing they can sell is they are flexible with different QBs. 

[adam]

I wonder if the Waldron hire tips the scales a little bit towards keeping Fields? An established playcaller is going to be expected to come right in and excel whereas it feels like a new playcaller would get a couple of years.

Also, looking back at Waldron's resume, he really has never worked with a rookie QB. At first, he worked with Goff, who had several years in the league by the time Waldron was involved with QBs, then Russell Wilson in Seattle, then Geno Smith, then even Drew Lock (27 yrs old). So Goff at 25 and 26 were his youngest QBs he worked with as a QB Coach or OC. Fields will be 25, Williams will be 23.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

19 minutes ago, adam said:

I wonder if the Waldron hire tips the scales a little bit towards keeping Fields? An established playcaller is going to be expected to come right in and excel whereas it feels like a new playcaller would get a couple of years.

Also, looking back at Waldron's resume, he really has never worked with a rookie QB. At first, he worked with Goff, who had several years in the league by the time Waldron was involved with QBs, then Russell Wilson in Seattle, then Geno Smith, then even Drew Lock (27 yrs old). So Goff at 25 and 26 were his youngest QBs he worked with as a QB Coach or OC. Fields will be 25, Williams will be 23.

I am still on board for drafting Jayden Daniel's and let him sit behind JF. Unless a team offers a decent trade, I say a 1st, I wouldn't trade JF. Let Waldron work with both. Daniels will be best to sit a year while building some strength and knowledge.  I believe Daniels can be leaned on sooner, but let him "rest" and the juices distribute evenly to be a great. If the Bears want to double down, sign JF to the 5th year extension, giving them control to trade or keep if he excels.

This gives the Bears two QBs plus Bagent.  A generational WR, starting FS, and a Center who could start or sit a year . DE/DT rotational pieces, a future stud G, and a TE that can create havoc for LBs.  Plus a future 1st and 2nd in 2025 to continue the pipeline.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

3 hours ago, adam said:

I wonder if the Waldron hire tips the scales a little bit towards keeping Fields? An established playcaller is going to be expected to come right in and excel whereas it feels like a new playcaller would get a couple of years.

Also, looking back at Waldron's resume, he really has never worked with a rookie QB. At first, he worked with Goff, who had several years in the league by the time Waldron was involved with QBs, then Russell Wilson in Seattle, then Geno Smith, then even Drew Lock (27 yrs old). So Goff at 25 and 26 were his youngest QBs he worked with as a QB Coach or OC. Fields will be 25, Williams will be 23.

I’ve said it before - they are taking a qb. 

[Pixote]

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I’ve said it before - they are taking a qb. 

The power of positive thinking. ?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

4 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I am still on board for drafting Jayden Daniel's and let him sit behind JF. Unless a team offers a decent trade, I say a 1st, I wouldn't trade JF. Let Waldron work with both. Daniels will be best to sit a year while building some strength and knowledge.  I believe Daniels can be leaned on sooner, but let him "rest" and the juices distribute evenly to be a great. If the Bears want to double down, sign JF to the 5th year extension, giving them control to trade or keep if he excels.

This gives the Bears two QBs plus Bagent.  A generational WR, starting FS, and a Center who could start or sit a year . DE/DT rotational pieces, a future stud G, and a TE that can create havoc for LBs.  Plus a future 1st and 2nd in 2025 to continue the pipeline.

FWIW, I like all this.  Not sure I’m as sold on Daniels as I am on Nix (or even McCarthy) but I like the idea of getting a higher-tier QB to compete with Justin AND MHJ.  Now that would be a great way to head into the new season.  If Justin can win the job over a higher regarded rookie QB, good for us.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

22 minutes ago, Pixote said:

The power of positive thinking. ?

Haha - I’m now putting all my energy on the qb and mhj. But more than anything I want Bears to win the Super Bowl sometime before I’m wearing diapers again haha. 
 

Best thing is - I know we all want the same thing. I will say Fields is probably the easiest qb to root for in my lifetime as a Bears fan. 

[CrackerDog]

8 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

 I will say Fields is probably the easiest qb to root for in my lifetime as a Bears fan. 

That is very well said.  I haven’t ever put my finger on just this well but you nailed it.   He’s fun to watch play (and frustrating at times) and just a good dude.  I’d be 100% behind sticking with him if he’d ever shown the ability to drive the team for a comeback win.  He’s come close but hasn’t done it to my recollection.  

[Stinger226]

9 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Haha - I’m now putting all my energy on the qb and mhj. But more than anything I want Bears to win the Super Bowl sometime before I’m wearing diapers again haha. 
 

Best thing is - I know we all want the same thing. I will say Fields is probably the easiest qb to root for in my lifetime as a Bears fan. 

Never thought of it that way before but totally a true statement. He gets beat up all the time, never complains, never throws anyone under the bus. He's very supportive of his teammates, you never see him ego tripping. Plus has special talent you get to see frequently every game. Does he need to improve his passing skills, absolutely but we have seen him progress their also. If me move on from him, I see him being very successful with a better play caller and OL. 

Having to pay him big money in two years will affect Poles decision on him but that's why I keep thinking they keep him, draft a QB, keep trading back in the first round and get a McCarthy or Nix and worry about the payday in 2026.

As you here people talk about Jackson in the upcoming game , I keep hearing them say that the most stressful aspect of defending him is his running ability. We lose that if we move on from Fields. He is the only equal running QB in the league in comparing him to Lamar Jackson. Baltimore designs there offense around his abilities and he has improved as a passer. 

[Pixote]

Eventually we will have a francize QB that we will have to pay mega bucks to keep long term. Those saying we need to get rid of QBs when their rookie contracts expire to help manage the cap have to realize that it is just a normal progression, one we have not had to worry about since our past QBs never justified being paid top dollar. You don't see Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, etc... being cut or traded. They got paid mega bucks. When we find "that guy" we will have no choice but to do so as well.

Now, the only question is, will it be Fields or a young stud we draft (hopefully to develop behind Fields as he plays at least one more year in Chicago. <smiling>)

[Alaskan Grizzly]

16 minutes ago, Pixote said:

Now, the only question is, will it be Fields or a young stud we draft (hopefully to develop behind Fields as he plays at least one more year in Chicago. <smiling>)

My man!  ?️

[Stinger226]

4 hours ago, Pixote said:

Eventually we will have a francize QB that we will have to pay mega bucks to keep long term. Those saying we need to get rid of QBs when their rookie contracts expire to help manage the cap have to realize that it is just a normal progression, one we have not had to worry about since our past QBs never justified being paid top dollar. You don't see Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, etc... being cut or traded. They got paid mega bucks. When we find "that guy" we will have no choice but to do so as well.

Now, the only question is, will it be Fields or a young stud we draft (hopefully to develop behind Fields as he plays at least one more year in Chicago. <smiling>)

That's what I'm hoping for, a double dip and develop a QB over the next two years and then decide which way you go in 2026. Example, a good Alex Smith or a hotshot Patrick Mahomes.

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Pixote said:

Eventually we will have a francize QB that we will have to pay mega bucks to keep long term. Those saying we need to get rid of QBs when their rookie contracts expire to help manage the cap have to realize that it is just a normal progression,

Oh this 100%. A true franchise QB is worth whatever you have to pay him. Hopefully he takes a little less so you can afford one more weapon for him (like Brady did) but even if not, they are worth every penny.

That's why if Williams is the next great, he's worth much more than all the amazing things you could get with the #1 pick by trading down, and it'd be a LOT.

A young Peyton Manning just coming into his prime is worth at least 8 first rounders in value.

You don't know when you pick a guy if he will be that though, so a lottery ticket on, say, 66% likely to get Peyton Manning is worth 5+ first rounders in value.

And our number 1 pick is worth about 3 first rounders in total trade value.

Now if you don't think they guy has a 66% chance to be Peyton Manning, then that's a whole different story. Or if you think there are several QBs in the draft that all have an equal chance to be a good franchise QB, then that can affect the decision too.

But the whole game in the NFL is having one of those 5 top QBs going into their prime. If you can build around them while theyre on their rookie contracts, you can get one or two superbowls, like Mahomes did.

But then they really earn their money when they start to get paid big. That's when they dont have a flawless team around them, because theyre eating up the cap, but they are SO good that if you're down 6 with 2:30 to go in the 4th quarter, and they get the ball in their hand you almost KNOW theyre gonna score. A guy like that you pay all day. That's the holy grail of the NFL and winning championships. Mahomes is on the cusp of making the argument that he's that guy - win another one this time not on your rookie deal.

The harder calculation is when you have a QB who's OK, but not that world beating hero, and he needs $40M or $50 Million a year. He's not gonna take that depleted roster (because youre paying HIM) down the field on his back, and he isnt gonna be Peyton Manning, even if hes the 10th best QB in the league. Do you pay a guy like that, and then never get over the hump, or do you draft a rookie and hope you got a GOAT, and then build a team around him to start the winning going until you get to that 5th year decision.

One note - it takes two or three years for the impact of your huge non rookie deal to cause players to leave via free agency for money that their current team now cant afford. So I know Mahomes won one already with his larger deal, but this is the year where his roster is really starting to get more bare. Can he win it anyway on his own abilities? if he can, he's on track to challenge Brady's record of 7-10 in the SB.

And we need to find a guy to compete with THAT for the next ten years. If we arent doing that, then we arent serious about winning superbowls.

[Stinger226]

I kinda agree with you, but assuming a QB is the next Manning is risky. So is it still worth it if he's Prescott or Cousins? 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

34 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

So is it still worth it if he's Prescott or Cousins? 

Not for nothing but Cousins was a fourth round pick after RG3 was picked in the first (#2 overall)…the same year by the same team. 

 

[BearFan PHX]

Williams (or whoever) isnt Manning OR Prescott. That's for after they get in the league and prove themselves.

The valuation of the pick is a LOTTERY TICKET that MIGHT get you a Manning etc. That's why it is mathematically discounted.

If you read what i said I said Manning is worth at least 8 first rounders in value, so a lottery ticket with a 66% chance to win Manning is worth 5+ first rounders. (8 x 0.66 = 5.28)

But even if you value it lower, the #1 pick is worth about three first rounders in value.

[Stinger226]

7 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Williams (or whoever) isnt Manning OR Prescott. That's for after they get in the league and prove themselves.

The valuation of the pick is a LOTTERY TICKET that MIGHT get you a Manning etc. That's why it is mathematically discounted.

If you read what i said I said Manning is worth at least 8 first rounders in value, so a lottery ticket with a 66% chance to win Manning is worth 5+ first rounders. (8 x 0.66 = 5.28)

But even if you value it lower, the #1 pick is worth about three first rounders in value.

I say this with complete honesty,if Williams is a generational talent , I want Poles to draft him. For me I don't like throwing the term around until I see more of the process.

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I say this with complete honesty,if Williams is a generational talent , I want Poles to draft him. For me I don't like throwing the term around until I see more of the process.

and no one knows, even scouts and Poles after they do all their investigations. What they can say is what hi possible ceiling might be, and assign some kind of percentage chance to his reaching it. Neither will be perfect, but together they can help decide whether trading the #1 pick for about 3 first rounders of value is a better or worse deal than taking the player and who they MIGHT become.

We do know some things.

We know exactly how Fields has been in the league to date.

We know what a hypothetical generational QB is worth.

We know historically what the likelihood of a QB drafted #1 is to become who they are projected to be.

And all to say Im not 100% on Caleb either. Im still researching. But I want the Bears to identify the best QB prospect in this class, and take him in the draft where they think there is a high probability that he will still be available.

 I am certain that Fields is not the guy to win a superbowl. Some may say that anything is POSSIBLE, and under that logic, it is also POSSIBLE that Mitch Trubisky could lead us to a Superbowl, but since I dont think either are LIKELY, I doubt anyone is clamoring for us to sign Mitch.

You gotta play the odds. Nothing is certain, but all outcomes are not even close to similarly likely.

[adam]

We got a 2fer: 

 

[BearFan PHX]

51 minutes ago, adam said:

We got a 2fer: 

 

he's probably being groomed to take over for Waldron if/when he gets a head coaching gig. Smart to have an heir apparent in the pipeline.

[adam]

12 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

he's probably being groomed to take over for Waldron if/when he gets a head coaching gig. Smart to have an heir apparent in the pipeline.

Absolutely, both have playcaller experience. Somehow he squeezed 103 receptions and 1,014 yards out of Thielen. 

[BearFan PHX]

10 minutes ago, adam said:

Absolutely, both have playcaller experience. Somehow he squeezed 103 receptions and 1,014 yards out of Thielen. 

No doubt Poles has a long game, and he's setting himself up for a long run strategically, which is very smart, but we will see if his decisions with Eberflus and Fields will allow that to come to fruition?

Honestly, if it wasn't for the Eberflus decision, Id be really unable to criticize him at all. He's doing a lot right. But he still has the defining decision of his career ahead of him.