Poles positive report card

[Stinger226]

There's a lot to talk about in  the coming year  but lets look at the good things that's happened in his first two years

He took a terrible cap situation and turned that around in one year. We had the most cap space last year and top 9 this year. I think he cuts Whitehair and Jackson and adds 20 mil to our cap putting us top 5 . That's a win win.

He took an old roster and ate lots of dead money to put us in a good space.Losing always comes with those decisions.

In free agency he added ( core team players) Tremaine Edmunds, Demarcus Walker, TJ Edwards, Andrew Billings, Travis Homer, Karli Blasingame .

In trades he got DJ Moore and Montez Sweat.

In the draft : Brisker, Gordon, Braxton Jones, Darnell Wright, Dexter, Stevenson, Roshon Johnson, Elijah Hicks  Sanborn, Terrel Smith, Tyson Bagent Trenton Gill

Young unproven players: Tyler Scott, Doug Kramer, Ja'Tyre Carter, Noah Sewell, Zach Pickens, Jaylon Jones.

This year he has pick 1 and pick 9, whatever he decides to do with the picks or trade them, it's going to be a positive.

Also in 2025 we have an extra 2 nd round pick.

I think he has done well in player acquisition so far with this year being the year we become a winning team. I think he makes another trade down this year for lots of draft capital and maybe another starter. His original plan was a 4 year rebuild and I think he sticks with the plan. He went from 3-14 to 7-10 ( should have been 10-7)and I think this year brings 10-11 wins and making the playoffs. 

[Pixote]

Sounds like an A+, 4.0 to me.

Hard to see how he could accomplish more in 2 years with what he was given to work with when hired.

Pace left the team in ruins. Poles had to resurrect it from the ashes of a once proud franchise.

I look forward to see what he has in store for us this year.

[adam]

He is definitely headed in the right direction. I agree with what I heard on the radio, that this year and beyond is where Poles will be truly evaluated as a GM. He basically had a free year to reset with no expectations, then got gifted the #1 pick by Houston, which led to the no-brainer trade for Moore+picks. Interesting note was that he wanted Burns who would've been a free agent after this year, so getting Moore actually worked out in his favor even though he was not the first choice.

He got away with the Claypool trade by redeeming himself with the Sweat and Quinn trades. So it ended up being Sweat, Roschon, and a 2025 6th for 2x 2nds, Claypool, Quinn, and a 2025 7th.

For the draft picks, I would say his picks have been as expected. Braxton is probably the main one playing above his draft status. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round players should be starting, so Brisker, Gordon, Wright, Dexter, and Stevenson are doing what they should be doing. Velus and Pickens may be his whiffs, but those are easier to handle when not in the first two rounds. 

For free agency, the Edmunds thing was a head scratcher but then Edwards was a steal. So those cancelled themselves out. Billings already earned an extension and has been a pleasant surprise. All the others are roster fillers. The best part was no wasted money or sunk costs you can't get rid of. Cap management has been excellent. We will have to see how that goes after the departure of Cliff Stein. Signing JJ is a must. If he fails to lock him up, that would suck because not a single player on the defense would be on their 2nd contract with the team.

What Poles does from here on out will define his legacy. It starts with arguably his biggest decision too, lol. JF1 or CW0? Then it's how does he address the holes while also upgrading and creating quality depth. There is no reason the team should have a hole after the draft.

One aspect I am impressed with this offseason has been with the upgraded coaching staff. The Coordinators are an upgrade, and overall the entire coaching staff is improved, which should raise the playing level of the players.

[BearFan PHX]

I give Poles an A+ right up until the Eberflus decision, and one decision doesn't equal all the good he's done, so yes in general he's still doing OK. But I dont even look at Claypool or Velus, and I think hes done an outstanding job. At least until this Eberflus decision. We'll see where we go from here, but yes in terms of talent acquisition and gaming the draft, he's killing it.

[adam]

8 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I give Poles an A+ right up until the Eberflus decision, and one decision doesn't equal all the good he's done, so yes in general he's still doing OK. But I dont even look at Claypool or Velus, and I think hes done an outstanding job. At least until this Eberflus decision. We'll see where we go from here, but yes in terms of talent acquisition and gaming the draft, he's killing it.

I would give Poles and A for his process. That is something we haven't see out of a GM since Angelo was hitting on all the great defenders. Pace was too inconsistent and would go with his gut (see Trubisky).

The results are the other half, an in order to get an A+ you normally have to hit on everything. So I would give him more like a B+ for the results. The grades are weighted heavily for this offseason.

[Stinger226]

No GM is going to make every perfect move. SF traded 3 first round picks for Trey Lance and are in the NFC championship game right now with a 7 th round drafee at QB. It's all about winning, 2024 is when the fruits of Poles decisions will show up. High expectations in the 2 nd year is a little premature to make a judgement call.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

15 hours ago, adam said:

For free agency, the Edmunds thing was a head scratcher but then Edwards was a steal. So those cancelled themselves out

Curious if you still feel this way?  

[BearFan PHX]

I think Edmunds is a fantastic player, but Eberflus is using him wrong. We play a regular cover 2 and not the Tampa 2, which would allow Edmunds to use his freakish combination of size and speed just like Urlacher did for us, roaming the deep middle and shutting down most of the middle field passing.

Instead, not only is he in a zone closer to the LOS, but Eberflus' coverage rules have these guys playing off of the WRs, so Edmunds cant make plays on the ball to break up passes. It's ridiculous, a waste of Edmunds talents, and one of the reasons I think Eberflous is not doing as well as some think.

I think Sweat made Eberflus look better than he deserves in the second half of the season.

[Stinger226]

16 hours ago, adam said:

He is definitely headed in the right direction. I agree with what I heard on the radio, that this year and beyond is where Poles will be truly evaluated as a GM. He basically had a free year to reset with no expectations, then got gifted the #1 pick by Houston, which led to the no-brainer trade for Moore+picks. Interesting note was that he wanted Burns who would've been a free agent after this year, so getting Moore actually worked out in his favor even though he was not the first choice.

He got away with the Claypool trade by redeeming himself with the Sweat and Quinn trades. So it ended up being Sweat, Roschon, and a 2025 6th for 2x 2nds, Claypool, Quinn, and a 2025 7th.

For the draft picks, I would say his picks have been as expected. Braxton is probably the main one playing above his draft status. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round players should be starting, so Brisker, Gordon, Wright, Dexter, and Stevenson are doing what they should be doing. Velus and Pickens may be his whiffs, but those are easier to handle when not in the first two rounds. 

For free agency, the Edmunds thing was a head scratcher but then Edwards was a steal. So those cancelled themselves out. Billings already earned an extension and has been a pleasant surprise. All the others are roster fillers. The best part was no wasted money or sunk costs you can't get rid of. Cap management has been excellent. We will have to see how that goes after the departure of Cliff Stein. Signing JJ is a must. If he fails to lock him up, that would suck because not a single player on the defense would be on their 2nd contract with the team.

What Poles does from here on out will define his legacy. It starts with arguably his biggest decision too, lol. JF1 or CW0? Then it's how does he address the holes while also upgrading and creating quality depth. There is no reason the team should have a hole after the draft.

One aspect I am impressed with this offseason has been with the upgraded coaching staff. The Coordinators are an upgrade, and overall the entire coaching staff is improved, which should raise the playing level of the players.

Edmunds became more prevalent as the season went on. Between Edmunds and Edwards, this defense went from last in the league to first in the league in run defense. both are a big contributor to that . TOs increased, Edmunds 4 its and 1 FF. 7 PDs,  Edwards 3 ints and 1 FF. 7 PDs . I contend everything is working out as planned. They did a great job. 368 tackles between them 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Edmunds became more prevalent as the season went on. Between Edmunds and Edwards, this defense went from last in the league to first in the league in run defense. both are a big contributor to that . TOs increased, Edmunds 4 its and 1 FF. 7 PDs,  Edwards 3 ints and 1 FF. 7 PDs . I contend everything is working out as planned. They did a great job. 368 tackles between them 

I don’t know that it was ‘368 tackles’ but they definitely fed off each other well.  They both seemed to keep up with their tacking numbers overall from when they were with Philly/Buff but I couldn’t help but notice they jumped significantly in the Int rate.  They remind me alot of Briggs and Urlacher in Lovies version of the similar scheme. 
 

As far as playing to their strengths, I would agree that Sweats acquisition certainly helped with how others performed (causal/effect), but it was Flus’ scheme that put everyone in the right place.  Think about how the defense was crippled early on with all the injuries then as the season wore on how much better they improved when the starters started making it to games.  And add in that you had some pretty significant play by rookies like Dexter, Stevenson and Terrell Smith, I’d again make the case that Flus seems to be able to coach up the players to the positions they’re in.  

[Stinger226]

5 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I don’t know that it was ‘368 tackles’ but they definitely fed off each other well.  They both seemed to keep up with their tacking numbers overall from when they were with Philly/Buff but I couldn’t help but notice they jumped significantly in the Int rate.  They remind me alot of Briggs and Urlacher in Lovies version of the similar scheme. 
 

As far as playing to their strengths, I would agree that Sweats acquisition certainly helped with how others performed (causal/effect), but it was Flus’ scheme that put everyone in the right place.  Think about how the defense was crippled early on with all the injuries then as the season wore on how much better they improved when the starters started making it to games.  And add in that you had some pretty significant play by rookies like Dexter, Stevenson and Terrell Smith, I’d again make the case that Flus seems to be able to coach up the players to the positions they’re in.  

You're right I added it wrong it was 155 and 113. 268

[BearFan PHX]

Flus called the same 6 or 8 vanilla plays that every team calls: cover 2, cover 3, quarters, cover 2 man under, a couple regular blitzes, prevent. Nothing inventive. His main contribution was to tell the DBs and LBs to cover soft and keep everything in front of them.

Every defensive coordinator in the league and all their assistants could do that. The players were the ones who did it - to the point of Poles being responsible, not Eberflus.

Flus was the one who:

sat Sweat so all players had equal playing time (what?!)
went for it on 4th and 1 when a FG would have won the game vs the Packers
got the defense into a prevent way too early in three different games we have over a 95% chance of winning and lost them all.
Had his coverages adjusted to super soft.

He personally lost 1/4 of the games this season for us, games we would have won otherwise if he had just gone to the bathroom for the 4th quarter.

Defensive players have definitely shown growth this year. I credit Poles for drafting them, and position coaches for their growth.

Tell me specifically what Eberflus actually did that was innovative or gave us an edge in winning games? He wasnt a good head coach situationally. He wasnt a good DC for the reasons I already listed. Can you keep a guy as head coach because he was possibly good as defensive quality control assistant?!

[Alaskan Grizzly]

8 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Tell me specifically what he did that was innovative or gave us an edge in winning games.

This plays into the old discussion about how Lovie coached the players to their strengths (or at least how I saw it).  Many said he “inherited” great players like Urlacher, Briggs and Tillman . But still he somehow was able to get the team to consistent winning seasons for the majority of his coaching career while in Chicago. The point being, I can’t tell you how Lovie influenced (aka coached) the players to win games because I wasn’t there when he designed the plays, made the calls from the sidelines or adjusted to his D to what he saw presented by the opposition.  Same with Flus.  Yes he’s made some bonehead calls as an HC but he’s done a pretty good job in getting the D to perform at a highly functional tick.  Theres no denying that.   
 

Are these another of them “rhetorical arguments”  you speak of?  ?

[BearFan PHX]

34 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

This plays into the old discussion about how Lovie coached the players to their strengths (or at least how I saw it).  Many said he “inherited” great players like Urlacher, Briggs and Tillman . But still he somehow was able to get the team to consistent winning seasons for the majority of his coaching career while in Chicago. The point being, I can’t tell you how Lovie influenced (aka coached) the players to win games because I wasn’t there when he designed the plays, made the calls from the sidelines or adjusted to his D to what he saw presented by the opposition.  Same with Flus.  Yes he’s made some bonehead calls as an HC but he’s done a pretty good job in getting the D to perform at a highly functional tick.  Theres no denying that.   
 

Are these another of them “rhetorical arguments”  you speak of?  ?

LOL rhetorical arguments are just opinions and are welcome here! you're thinking of anecdotal evidence.

I agree that we arent in the locker room too. I can say I dont see any innovative schemes from our defense, just hard working players who have talent.

Some say that he kept the team together during a storm, but if we hadnt lost those 3 games (and others!) we'd be at least 10 - 7, and its not hard to get players to play hard when you arent IN a storm. So its kind of like saving someones life with CPR after youre the one that stabbed them?

I truly dont see anything Eberflus does that's special. But as I've said, I dont think he will continue to be an active impediment to winning. I hope the new DC will push back on prevents too early and argue to let the players play a little tighter int heir coverages.

If you're watching the game today, you see what really playing hard looks like, and I never saw anything like that kind of intensity from our team, admittedly in the regular season, but this is supposed to be Eberflus' strength. Also, you see how much tighter the coverages are today than we ever see in Chicago.

Oh and to your point about Lovie, we did see high intensity from that D, and innovation in how deep they had Urlacher in that Tampa 2. Plus the team culture preached takeaways in a way that you could see the players were always working for them. So those are some outward things you could see on the field. But we didnt go into early prevents and give games away on Lovie's teams, and he handled the clock, situational football and 4th downs much better. And he never kept the best players off the field when they were rested just to give the rotations "fair" minutes.

[Stinger226]

38 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Flus called the same 6 or 8 vanilla plays that every team calls: cover 2, cover 3, quarters, cover 2 man under, a couple regular blitzes, prevent. Nothing inventive. His main contribution was to tell the DBs and LBs to cover soft and keep everything in front of them.

Every defensive coordinator in the league and all their assistants could do that. The players were the ones who did it - to the point of Poles being responsible, not Eberflus.

Flus was the one who:

sat Sweat so all players had equal playing time (what?!)
went for it on 4th and 1 when a FG would have won the game vs the Packers
got the defense into a prevent way too early in three different games we have over a 95% chance of winning and lost them all.
Had his coverages adjusted to super soft.

He personally lost 1/4 of the games this season for us, games we would have won otherwise if he had just gone to the bathroom for the 4th quarter.

Defensive players have definitely shown growth this year. I credit Poles for drafting them, and position coaches for their growth.

Tell me specifically what Eberflus actually did that was innovative or gave us an edge in winning games? He wasnt a good head coach situationally. He wasnt a good DC for the reasons I already listed. Can you keep a guy as head coach because he was possibly good as defensive quality control assistant?!

Boy are you going to be pissed if Poles goes with Justin next year to go with keeping Flus.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

LOL rhetorical arguments are just opinions and are welcome here! you're thinking of anecdotal evidence

Oops….i blame the alcohol consumption.  ?

[Stinger226]

4 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

LOL rhetorical arguments are just opinions and are welcome here! you're thinking of anecdotal evidence.

I agree that we arent in the locker room too. I can say I dont see any innovative schemes from our defense, just hard working players who have talent.

Some say that he kept the team together during a storm, but if we hadnt lost those 3 games (and others!) we'd be at least 10 - 7, and its not hard to get players to play hard when you arent IN a storm. So its kind of like saving someones life with CPR after youre the one that stabbed them?

I truly dont see anything Eberflus does that's special. But as I've said, I dont think he will continue to be an active impediment to winning. I hope the new DC will push back on prevents too early and argue to let the players play a little tighter int heir coverages.

If you're watching the game today, you see what really playing hard looks like, and I never saw anything like that kind of intensity from our team, admittedly in the regular season, but this is supposed to be Eberflus' strength. Also, you see how much tighter the coverages are today than we ever see in Chicago.

You can be negative on a lot of things about Flus but saying the team didn't play hard is a little difficult to swallow.

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, Stinger226 said:

Boy are you going to be pissed if Poles goes with Justin next year to go with keeping Flus.

not because of who I am a fan of. Just because we are ALL gonna be pissed at the end of next season if they do that.

And getting to say "I told you so" is not going to be anywhere near worth the chance and time we squandered and the team we could have become.

Im not for or against people on the team. Thats what you keep misunderstanding. I dont hate Justin Fields. I WANTED him to be awesome. But I am a fan of the team, not individual players, and I want the TEAM to win. So when players or coaches show me they are not great, even if theyre OK, I want them to be replaced by new players and coaches who are great.

I'm not willing to sacrifice the team and season(s) just to be fair to a player or coach. They are employees, not customers.

[BearFan PHX]

8 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

You can be negative on a lot of things about Flus but saying the team didn't play hard is a little difficult to swallow.

they didnt play as hard as either of the two teams that are playing today did, during our regular season is what I said, followed by a disclaimer that of course this is the playoffs. You need to read the whole sentences to understand what I mean.

It's as if i said "I don't like spaghetti when it falls on the floor and stains the rug, but it is a good low cost easy to make weekday meal" and all you hear is "I dont like spaghetti" so if you want to understand me, or debate what Im saying, you kind of have to read what Im saying and all the context too before you cherry pick sentences out of context to create the illusion of something I never meant.

Are you saying they players on most other NFL teams this year didnt play as hard as our defense did? Cuz if youre not saying that, then Flus didnt accomplish anything in that realm. And I think players on a lot of teams played hard for their coaches. What did Eberflus do that was special? Not good, but special? Like top 5 coach special?

Because if he isnt that, we should keep looking for someone who is.

Think Harbaugh is gonna be a better coach than Eberflus? I do.

[BearFan PHX]

8 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Oops….i blame the alcohol consumption.  ?

and credit it as well LOL

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Oops….i blame the alcohol consumption.  ?

I swear if anyone could teabag sometime from a keyboard, it would be you...??

[BearFan PHX]

58 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I swear if anyone could teabag sometime from a keyboard, it would be you...??

Look, if your point is that we troll each other here, then dont get butt hurt if I say someone is trolling. I'm trying to take everything at face value to be polite, not because I'm stupid.

Pretending to be stupid to troll someone is hardly a mic drop for intelligence is it?

But ask yourself, if someone tried to "teabag" you, how would you react? What if someone implied that someone else teabagged you? And if I react that way now since youve made it clear, are you gonna act like I'm all out of line?

I bet if someone put their testicles on your chin youd knock the shit out of them, right?

So please dont imply thats what he did to me. Or if you do, then dont be surprised if someone gets punched ("rhetorically" of course). You cant have it both ways.

I think it'd be best if we just act like adults here. Whadda ya say?

[Mongo3451]

10 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Look, if your point is that we troll each other here, then dont get butt hurt if I say someone is trolling. I'm trying to take everything at face value to be polite, not because I'm stupid.

Pretending to be stupid to troll someone is hardly a mic drop for intelligence is it?

But ask yourself, if someone tried to teabag you, how would you react? And if I react that way now since youve made it clear, are you gonna act like Im all out of line?

I bet if someone put their testicles on your chin youd knock the shit out of them, right?

So please dont imply thats what he did to me. Or if you do, then dont be surprised if someone gets punched ("rhetorically" of course). You cant have it both ways.

I think it'd be best if we just act like adults here. Whadda ya say?

Damn, you're sensitive.  I wasn't referring to you.  He's knows what meant, from our prior debates.  He knows he's an antagonist and likes it.  Why am I hearing Carly Simon now?

[BearFan PHX]

26 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Damn, you're sensitive.  I wasn't referring to you.  He's knows what meant, from our prior debates.  He knows he's an antagonist and likes it.  Why am I hearing Carly Simon now?

dont be a dick. if you want to man up on me, win an argument on the merits not this playground childish crap. If you cant beat me that way, dont be a baby.

The comment you described as him "teabagging" was said to me, so if youre a real man, stand behind what you say and dont go dodging like a little kid.

I have had it from all sides here because I dont want to keep Justin. Youre gonna have to deal with people disagreeing with you.

And also because of the years that one member spent saying things that were really out of line to me. Im sorry you dont think I am worthy to defend myself, but I am. Youd expect a certain amount of personal respect as a man, so me too.

All we have to do is debate with mutual respect for each others opinions, and we can criticize each others facts, logic and statistics. Believe me, Im not interested in teabagging you back. Sorry.

was that antagonistic? Is it allowed from me or only people criticizing me?

Thought so.

P.S. Grizz and I seem to be getting along fine. So can we if you just act with regular personal respect. That's all Im asking for / insisting on.

[Mongo3451]

29 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

dont be a dick. if you want to man up on me, win an argument on the merits not this playground childish crap. If you cant beat me that way, dont be a baby.

The comment you described as him "teabagging" was said to me, so if youre a real man, stand behind what you say and dont go dodging like a little kid.

I have had it from all sides here because I dont want to keep Justin. Youre gonna have to deal with people disagreeing with you.

And also because of the years that one member spent saying things that were really out of line to me. Im sorry you dont think I am worthy to defend myself, but I am. Youd expect a certain amount of personal respect as a man, so me too.

All we have to do is debate with mutual respect for each others opinions, and we can criticize each others facts, logic and statistics. Believe me, Im not interested in teabagging you back. Sorry.

was that antagonistic? Is it allowed from me or only people criticizing me?

Thought so.

P.S. Grizz and I seem to be getting along fine. So can we if you just act with regular personal respect. That's all Im asking for / insisting on.

I've always been straight with you.  If YOU remember, I told you Grizz was a master of debate.  So, if you are that sensitive or think that things are about you, when in fact not, I truly don't know what to say.