Poles positive report card

[Stinger226]

52 minutes ago, Lucky Luciano said:

draft the future franchise qb. then...

use baggette as you say or if he turns out looking like i THINK he could you then have a good+ qb in bagette and then can make the decision to either keep him and trade the draft pick or trade baggette for some really nice draft picks. this is how the packer org. operated. think of the qb's they drafted and traded for good draft picks or premium players all the while favre was in the fold.

you then got something out of fields, a franchise prospect and a possible good+ qb in bagette.

if you keep fields for that purpose you will REALLY divide the locker room and fans and make it much harder for transition of your new qb.

The other option in that scenario is to sit him for a year, Fields contract expires , if he balls out, you tag him if you want or you have the Mahomes-Smith situation. You could tag him and still trade him for compensation. Plus Justin always misses a few games, you can see what you have. He  missed 4 games this year

Sitting for a year has worked out for many teams. KC, GB, Jalen Hurts only started 4 games his first year because of injury.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

13 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Here's a thought. Maybe Poles felt he needed to keep Eberflus so he doesn't lose the locker room when he moves on from Fields. Maybe he needs Flus to sell it to the players.

And maybe the fans too. ?‍♂️(Source CorStrategies Jan 17, 2024):  Roughly tracks what I've been seeing on social media.

[Stinger226]

7 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

And maybe the fans too. ?‍♂️(Source CorStrategies Jan 17, 2024):  Roughly tracks what I've been seeing on social media.

That seems accurate from what I've seen on X. I suspect it's fans liking Justin for being a tough kid, great leader and work ethic. Fans always like great traits for any player. They think he can get better with a better coach and more weapons. Why not.

[ChileBear]

57 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

That seems accurate from what I've seen on X. I suspect it's fans liking Justin for being a tough kid, great leader and work ethic. Fans always like great traits for any player. They think he can get better with a better coach and more weapons. Why not.

Fields problem is he holds the ball too long and he hasn't won a game with a final, come from behind drive. Opposing D's know he holds the ball too long and that dooms the Bears to mediocrity. Right now I'm a definite draft a QB at one. We are in such a unique position: good young talent, great outlook for the D next season, great cap situation and another pick in the top 10. I trust Poles assessment of draft talent so I wan a new QB with one of our two no. 1. But, I'll just read something or listen to sports radio and I'm sure I'll filp-flop before the draft. But either way, we are in a great position.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

41 minutes ago, ChileBear said:

I trust Poles assessment of draft talent so I wan a new QB with one of our two no. 1. But

And if Poles decides, after assessing the draft talent, to stick with Justin for at least one more year?  ?

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

And maybe the fans too. ?‍♂️(Source CorStrategies Jan 17, 2024):  Roughly tracks what I've been seeing on social media.

Good point.

This board being a perfect example too of how much support Fields still has.

Lemme ask you Grizz, since you're probably in that camp? If Poles had fired Eberflus and gotten, say Shane Waldron as head coach to replace him, would that have been OK with you?

And if not, would it make moving on from Fields tougher to take?

Im seriously asking, because it's a feelings question, and there is no wrong answer, and since i dont see it from that perspective in the first place, Im interested to hear your thoughts on it?

Does keeping Eberflus make you feel better, or less bad about moving on from Fields? (if that hypothetically happens?)

[BearFan PHX]

53 minutes ago, ChileBear said:

Fields problem is he holds the ball too long and he hasn't won a game with a final, come from behind drive. Opposing D's know he holds the ball too long and that dooms the Bears to mediocrity. Right now I'm a definite draft a QB at one. We are in such a unique position: good young talent, great outlook for the D next season, great cap situation and another pick in the top 10. I trust Poles assessment of draft talent so I wan a new QB with one of our two no. 1.

This is what I think too, and if our scouts make a good choice, I'm OK if it isn't Williams, and if it isn't with the #1 pick, as long as it's a true likely franchise QB. So not some guy in the 4th round. If they love Williams so much the better.

I don't really think Fields will ever be a consistently successful pocket passer, and the incredible improvisational plays he makes don't end up making 4th quarter comebacks that win the game. they just make really amazing highlight reels.

He's like a pile of parts to make a Ferrari - the potential is there, all the rare pieces are right in that pile, but if you cant get them all connected as they need to be to actually be a Ferrari, you cant drive it anywhere.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

7 minutes ago, ChileBear said:

Fields problem is he holds the ball too long and he hasn't won a game with a final, come from behind drive. Opposing D's know he holds the ball too long and that dooms the Bears to mediocrity. Right now I'm a definite draft a QB at one. We are in such a unique position: good young talent, great outlook for the D next season, great cap situation and another pick in the top 10. I trust Poles assessment of draft talent so I wan a new QB with one of our two no. 1. But, I'll just read something or listen to sports radio and I'm sure I'll filp-flop before the draft. But either way, we are in a great position.

I am a JF supporter, but also see why the Bears need to use the resource on a QB to better the team. The Bears at least have JF rights for the season and can trade him during the draft, keep him, or trade before the deadline. If he walks after the season, the Bears should get compensation as high as a 3rd rd.  If they trade him during the draft, let's say a 2nd this year and maybe a 2025 4th. If they trade him before the trade deadline to a team that lost a QB to injury, how high can it go?  Hope they can get the best value for him.

[BearFan PHX]

2 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I am a JF supporter, but also see why the Bears need to use the resource on a QB to better the team. The Bears at least have JF rights for the season and can trade him during the draft, keep him, or trade before the deadline. If he walks after the season, the Bears should get compensation as high as a 3rd rd.  If they trade him during the draft, let's say a 2nd this year and maybe a 2025 4th. If they trade him before the trade deadline to a team that lost a QB to injury, how high can it go?  Hope they can get the best value for him.

You're right that does set the floor on his value. I keep forgetting about that compensatory pick. Cool

Do you know if we get that 3rd rounder automatically, or can it be offset by us signing other teams' free agents?

It will be interesting in the 2025 draft to have a 3rd for Fields (or better in trade) two more 3rds for losing Ian Cunningham and an extra 2nd from the Carolina trade.

Poles certainly has milked the draft. He's gotten a lot of value for last years first. Quite a difference from Pace burning picks to move up and acquire free agents. We've sent a lot of first rounders away for Cutler, Mack, Trubisky etc. I want the one we traded for Rick Mirer back too. LOL

And what team (that doesnt have a top 5 QB) wouldnt be thrilled to get Williams (or their top QB pick) AND the #9 pick for whatever. If we dont trade the #1 for a huge haul, we've still gotten a treasure trove in all of this.

[Daventry]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

And if Poles decides, after assessing the draft talent, to stick with Justin for at least one more year?  ?

Then I am watching and if it fails I am back to not buying merchandise or paying much attention for awhile 

[BearFan PHX]

interesting from Jason Sigler.

If Eberflus isn't stable, one ownders if Poles isn't thinking about promoting Waldron. It's so interesting he got so many ready-to-move-up guys from his own tree. I'm talking after this coming year, but if candidates really were turned off by Eberflus' job security, maybe Waldron saw the opportunity differently.

I mean, we all like the staff thats been assembled on both sides of the ball. If they do well, it's hard to see how Eberflus can get singled out as a problem, because we'd be winning games. But it just makes me wonder what Poles might have up his sleeve.

Anyway, I thought the article was interesting, and spoke to both sides.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/report_chicago_bears_oc_candidates_were_turned_off_by_instability_of_matt_eberflus_staff/s1_17081_39900732

[Mongo3451]

46 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I mean, we all like the staff thats been assembled on both sides of the ball. If they do well, it's hard to see how Eberflus can get singled out as a problem, because we'd be winning games. But it just makes me wonder what Poles might have up his sleeve.

For Waldren to supplant Flus, Flus would really have to shit the bed defensively.  I'm not sure if I've ever seen a HC fired and replaced by his coordinator, other than in season.

[Stinger226]

If you improve the coaching staff and improve the talent, the only way we're getting worse is if he  picks a rookie QB and has a Bryce Young type year. The team will be better, so there's no way Flus is getting fired. 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

For Waldren to supplant Flus, Flus would really have to shit the bed defensively.  I'm not sure if I've ever seen a HC fired and replaced by his coordinator, other than in season.

yeah I agree, it'd be really weird. But weirdness aside, which would you rather have as HC if you could just make the decision with no consequences other than the change right now.

I would hate to see Waldron go, and then have the now 2nd year QB have to adjust.

I guess I feel like Waldron is going to be more important to the offense than Eberflus is to the defense, and I dont think Eberflus is particularly good as a HC in situational football.

But it aint gonna happen for a while. I think the defense will play well if you had a ham sandwich as head coach, because the players are great, and the DC on down are all good coaches.

It'd have to be Flus losing some games for us by forcing the coordinators to be too safe.

Or maybe Flus will get arrested for having been part of whatever WIlliams was doing last year LOL

Damn, the topics that are worth discussing in early February are wild and all fiction LOL

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

If you improve the coaching staff and improve the talent, the only way we're getting worse is if he  picks a rookie QB and has a Bryce Young type year. The team will be better, so there's no way Flus is getting fired. 

yeah thats not what Im saying in this silly hypothetical point of mine here.

Im not saying we could be winning and Flus be fired on his own performance. Im saying if we did well, and then Waldron was getting offers from other teams, would you rather have Flus and lose Waldron, or promote Waldron and lose Flus.

Youre taking it like Im suggesting Flus would have done something really wrong, or whether it'd be fair to Flus.

So as weird an unlikely what Im talking about is - its just a dumb topic for discussion, but is it more important to be fair to Eberflus, or to do what's best for the Bears even if it's a totally unfair thing that happens to Eberflus.

This comes down to our basic disagreement: you're loyal to and a fan of players and coaches on the team, my loyalty is in what's best for the team overall.

If 40 year old Mike Ditka walks in the door, or maybe you prefer 40 year old BIll Belichick or whoever your favortie coach is in their prime, and they want the job, and Eberflus has 2 more years left on his deal, and went 11-6 last year, do you turn the GOAT coach away because there's no particular reason to fire Flus?

And this is the crux of my Poles hugging point too. I think people may be getting too close to the players and coaches, and not making tough decisions in the best interest of the team as a result. Who cares what's fair? What does it take to become dominant and win multiple superbowls? That's what I'm interested in.

[Stinger226]

18 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

yeah thats not what Im saying in this silly hypothetical point of mine here.

Im not saying we could be winning and Flus be fired on his own performance. Im saying if we did well, and then Waldron was getting offers from other teams, would you rather have Flus and lose Waldron, or promote Waldron and lose Flus.

Youre taking it like Im suggesting Flus would have done something really wrong, or whether it'd be fair to Flus.

So as weird an unlikely what Im talking about is - its just a dumb topic for discussion, but is it more important to be fair to Eberflus, or to do what's best for the Bears even if it's a totally unfair thing that happens to Eberflus.

This comes down to our basic disagreement: you're loyal to and a fan of players and coaches on the team, my loyalty is in what's best for the team overall.

If 40 year old Mike Ditka walks in the door, or maybe you prefer 40 year old BIll Belichick or whoever your favortie coach is in their prime, and they want the job, and Eberflus has 2 more years left on his deal, and went 11-6 last year, do you turn the GOAT coach away because there's no particular reason to fire Flus?

And this is the crux of my Poles hugging point too. I think people may be getting too close to the players and coaches, and not making tough decisions in the best interest of the team as a result. Who cares what's fair? What does it take to become dominant and win multiple superbowls? That's what I'm interested in.

It's not about being fair to Flus, if we succeed, I can't find a scenario where he leaves and we promote another coach. They will help him win. As far as hugging Justin, he's the boss, he can do anything he wants. You assume that's a bad decision, I don't think he puts that much thought into it and he will do what he thinks  is best for the team in spite of hugging Fields.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

5 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

• Good point.
  
  This board being a perfect example too of how much support Fields still has.
  
  Lemme ask you Grizz, since you're probably in that camp? If Poles had fired Eberflus and gotten, say Shane Waldron as head coach to replace him, would that have been OK with you?
  
  And if not, would it make moving on from Fields tougher to take?
  
  Im seriously asking, because it's a feelings question, and there is no wrong answer, and since i dont see it from that perspective in the first place, Im interested to hear your thoughts on it?
  
  Does keeping Eberflus make you feel better, or less bad about moving on from Fields? (if that hypothetically happens?)

To be clear, I'm not blindly supporting Fields and saying there is no other option for QB other than Bagent as his backup.  Of that graphic I shared, I would consider myself in the '31% group'.  I support the idea of drafting a QB just not as the 1st overall pick.  1) I think there's more value to trading the pick and fortifying the team with those picks.  2) according to the "experts" this draft has got a lot of decent QB's (maybe not all "generational").  But in the end, drafting another QB AND keeping Justin makes for a potential of competition and a lot of times competition brings out the best in people.  Waldron theoretically was able to revive the career of Geno Smith, so what's to say he couldn't again with Justin?  ?‍♂️ My concerns of drafting a QB at #1 are at about the same level as yours are with Justin staying for another year. 

As far as the Waldron replacing Flus scenario?  I don't think it would matter either way.  On paper Waldron seems to check the boxes (but then so did Trestman - remember how excited everyone was when he was hired?)  But I digress...  I'm not tied to Flus really.  My theory why he stuck around was because Poles and/or Warren saw the progress he made with the defense after having to navigate some rough seas at the beginning of the season.  And while doing so probably/maybe kept the respect of the locker room while doing so.  We know Warren is on record with seeing coaches succeed in short order (and we saw it again with Campbell) and maybe....HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, he thought this is the course HE wanted to take with Flus?  Anyhow, that discussion has been had.  Going back to your question again, I don't think any combination of Flus staying or going would necessarily change my thoughts on Justin's return for 2024.  

 

[BearFan PHX]

27 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

To be clear, I'm not blindly supporting Fields and saying there is no other option for QB other than Bagent as his backup.  Of that graphic I shared, I would consider myself in the '31% group'.  I support the idea of drafting a QB just not as the 1st overall pick.  1) I think there's more value to trading the pick and fortifying the team with those picks.  2) according to the "experts" this draft has got a lot of decent QB's (maybe not all "generational").  But in the end, drafting another QB AND keeping Justin makes for a potential of competition and a lot of times competition brings out the best in people.  Waldron theoretically was able to revive the career of Geno Smith, so what's to say he couldn't again with Justin?  ?‍♂️ My concerns of drafting a QB at #1 are at about the same level as yours are with Justin staying for another year. 

As far as the Waldron replacing Flus scenario?  I don't think it would matter either way.  On paper Waldron seems to check the boxes (but then so did Trestman - remember how excited everyone was when he was hired?)  But I digress...  I'm not tied to Flus really.  My theory why he stuck around was because Poles and/or Warren saw the progress he made with the defense after having to navigate some rough seas at the beginning of the season.  And while doing so probably/maybe kept the respect of the locker room while doing so.  We know Warren is on record with seeing coaches succeed in short order (and we saw it again with Campbell) and maybe....HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, he thought this is the course HE wanted to take with Flus?  Anyhow, that discussion has been had.  Going back to your question again, I don't think any combination of Flus staying or going would necessarily change my thoughts on Justin's return for 2024.  

 

I worry that youd need two different offenses, one for Fields, and one for the new guy, even if it's Caleb. Because the playing off script problem is the thing we need to reel in about Justin, and the coaching points that Caleb needs too. Having both seems like a recipe for disaster in trying to instill a disciplined passing game. Imagine Fields and Williams battling it out and not playhing in structure, while Bagent has his hand up in the back of the room with the right answer every time, but he just doesnt have the physical talents these guys have. What a total mess!

Now, if you're taking Maye for example, it's OK to keep Justin I guess, but it has to be in the Maye type offensive system, and I dont see Justin thriving that way. We'd say that we werent constructing an offense just for Justin, and that's why hes failing.

But, I have heard your point, and others who make it too, and it helped to sort out my feelings a little about it, and I have come to understand that what I REALLY mean is that we need to draft a top QB prospect, not necessarily at #1, but we cant risk not getting our guy, so probably in the top ten. And if we keep Fields, i just think he will fail, but as long as we have the rookie waiting in the wings, and an offense that helps the rookie thrive, keeping Justin wont kill me.

It's not Justin hate as some on this board take it, it's just that I want a real QB

But you said above that some fans will take losing Fields a little better because we didnt fire Eberflus, so I was just asking if it worked on you too. And you said no. And that makes sense to me.

I think *IF* Poles kept Flus to make the transition away from Fields smoother with the players, that would be an angle i hadnt considered earlier. maybe really smart too if he can dump Flus later if need be.

And I was just wondering if losing Waldron hypothetically AFTER he'd unlocked whoever our QB is next year would be worth it to keep Flus. I dont think so, but its weird to fire a guy for no reason other than that you think someone else is better. That's really hard to do. If Poles did that, then he can bloody well hug whoever he likes, because he's obviously got ice water in his veins.

[Daventry]

6 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

To be clear, I'm not blindly supporting Fields and saying there is no other option for QB other than Bagent as his backup.  Of that graphic I shared, I would consider myself in the '31% group'.  I support the idea of drafting a QB just not as the 1st overall pick.  1) I think there's more value to trading the pick and fortifying the team with those picks.  2) according to the "experts" this draft has got a lot of decent QB's (maybe not all "generational").  But in the end, drafting another QB AND keeping Justin makes for a potential of competition and a lot of times competition brings out the best in people.  Waldron theoretically was able to revive the career of Geno Smith, so what's to say he couldn't again with Justin?  ?‍♂️ My concerns of drafting a QB at #1 are at about the same level as yours are with Justin staying for another year. 

As far as the Waldron replacing Flus scenario?  I don't think it would matter either way.  On paper Waldron seems to check the boxes (but then so did Trestman - remember how excited everyone was when he was hired?)  But I digress...  I'm not tied to Flus really.  My theory why he stuck around was because Poles and/or Warren saw the progress he made with the defense after having to navigate some rough seas at the beginning of the season.  And while doing so probably/maybe kept the respect of the locker room while doing so.  We know Warren is on record with seeing coaches succeed in short order (and we saw it again with Campbell) and maybe....HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, he thought this is the course HE wanted to take with Flus?  Anyhow, that discussion has been had.  Going back to your question again, I don't think any combination of Flus staying or going would necessarily change my thoughts on Justin's return for 2024.  

 

My worry about not taking a QB with the 1 pick is, when will we ever get the chance again and what if we miss on somebody who is described as “generational “ .  We didn’t get Stroud last year.  We got a great haul for the first pick but here we are again this year, staring at a QB question.  It’s a tough question.  What I wouldn’t give to be a fly on the wall in Poles office.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, Daventry said:

My worry about not taking a QB with the 1 pick is, when will we ever get the chance again and what if we miss on somebody who is described as “generational “ .  We didn’t get Stroud last year.  We got a great haul for the first pick but here we are again this year, staring at a QB question.  It’s a tough question.  What I wouldn’t give to be a fly on the wall in Poles office.

Actually last year, Bryce Young was the go to guy, didn't turn out that way but it would not have went well if we took Young. Hindsight is always a clear picture. In the second year of the rebuild, we added  several blue chip players and this year could be better. Don't count out the haul he may get, it's part of the formula.

[Lucky Luciano]

10 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

If 40 year old Mike Ditka walks in the door, or maybe you prefer 40 year old BIll Belichick or whoever your favortie coach is in their prime, and they want the job, and Eberflus has 2 more years left on his deal, and went 11-6 last year, do you turn the GOAT coach away because there's no particular reason to fire Flus?

ditka was a BAD coach. unless what we had was a complete disaster he would be one of my last choices. with the talent ditka had at that time to only win one sb is almost criminal. you talk about flus making errors costing games? ditka was the master at that. he is probably the most over rated coach in nfl history who won a superbowl on jim finks and buddy ryans shirt tails.

[Mongo3451]

9 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

 My concerns of drafting a QB at #1 are at about the same level as yours are with Justin staying for another year. 

This is what baffles me.  What do you see in Justin, that you didn't see in Mitch? 

Looking back I wanted to keep Mitch another year, while they blew up the team.  What they did was get rid of Mitch, drafted Fields and didn't blow anything up.  The blow up happened a year later.  They used Fields as a punching bag for the last two years of the rebuild.  I believe Justin is seeing ghosts due to three years of shell shock.  

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Actually last year, Bryce Young was the go to guy, didn't turn out that way but it would not have went well if we took Young. Hindsight is always a clear picture

Using Bryce Young is not a very good argument point.  For starters, he's not rated nearly as high as Williams and Maye.  Young does not have a single generational trait about him. (Size, speed arm talent). Secondly, everyone knew we were trading that pick, as it the only thing that made sense.  We seemed last year, "the year of Justin", because we knew it wasn't about wins and losses.  It was about the development of Justin.  We all said, before the season started, that we needed to see him get the ball out on time.  He failed at it.  Hindsight is exactly what we said it would be, yet we are still talking about it's translation.

[Stinger226]

41 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

This is what baffles me.  What do you see in Justin, that you didn't see in Mitch? 

Looking back I wanted to keep Mitch another year, while they blew up the team.  What they did was get rid of Mitch, drafted Fields and didn't blow anything up.  The blow up happened a year later.  They used Fields as a punching bag for the last two years of the rebuild.  I believe Justin is seeing ghosts due to three years of shell shock.  

Using Bryce Young is not a very good argument point.  For starters, he's not rated nearly as high as Williams and Maye.  Young does not have a single generational trait about him. (Size, speed arm talent). Secondly, everyone knew we were trading that pick, as it the only thing that made sense.  We seemed last year, "the year of Justin", because we knew it wasn't about wins and losses.  It was about the development of Justin.  We all said, before the season started, that we needed to see him get the ball out on time.  He failed at it.  Hindsight is exactly what we said it would be, yet we are still talking about it's translation.

Agree with all that, the point with Young is the experts said he was the best QB, not that is was the same as Williams by comparison. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

5 hours ago, Daventry said:

My worry about not taking a QB with the 1 pick is, when will we ever get the chance again and what if we miss on somebody who is described as “generational “ .  We didn’t get Stroud last year.  We got a great haul for the first pick but here we are again this year, staring at a QB question.  It’s a tough question.  What I wouldn’t give to be a fly on the wall in Poles office.

You know how we get focused on the “what ifs” of this conversation?  What if we miss on a generational talent? What if Justin gets exponentially better if given the right opportunity?  Each of those scenarios can be explained away by stats and in some cases, logic. My fear is that “#1 overall talent” doesn’t always equal success.  Just like your explanation of how three years of tape on Justin shows he can’t/won’t get any better.  
 

We could go down any number of rabbit holes to prove or disprove each other’s point.  We’ll of course drive ourselves crazy until the 25th of April trying to figure out exactly what it is that Poles and the team plan on doing. Oh yes, if only we could be a fly on that wall.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

This is what baffles me.  What do you see in Justin, that you didn't see in Mitch? 

Looking back I wanted to keep Mitch another year, while they blew up the team.  What they did was get rid of Mitch, drafted Fields and didn't blow anything up.  The blow up happened a year later.  They used Fields as a punching bag for the last two years of the rebuild.  I believe Justin is seeing ghosts due to three years of shell shock.  

To the first point, it really comes down to collegiate performance and experience before being drafted. I know that doesn’t always equal out to success in the NFL (aka Mahomes) but it does help you formulate a rough idea of how that guy is gonna do when given the chance on the big stage. For Trubisky I didn’t see a history in college that convinced me he was “the guy”.  What did he have, one year of starter experience before coming into the league?  And if you add he had to wait for Marquise Williams to leave before he started, then I had less faith in him being able to sustain success.  With Justin, I see him having more success not just as a player (appearing in two consecutive playoff series while in college and a ‘winning’ record against SEC teams) but also as a stand up guy in a lot of regards. He appealed to Warren directly to ask that the Big 10 play during COVID and when he left Georgia for Ohio State, he had a season he could have taken off but instead appealed to start playing immediately. He’s a true competitor…IMHO… and has a drive to succeed.  (and by the way, to those supporters/believers in Stroud.  Remember both Justin and he came from the same system.  And generally speaking Ohio State QBs get banged on for not being able to do well in the NFL.  Let’s see how Strouds doing in two years before we “crown” him). 
 

The second part of Justin I would totally agree with.  The team “blew up” before his very eyes.  His first year was when the pieces started to fall off the airplane and his second year was when it nosedived.  His third year was when they started to try and rebuild and whether he’s the pilot in this analogy or not, he came out of it battered.  The question for me is, how does he carry himself going forward?  History shows as a person he’ll rise above it . But will his QB play improve too?