Drafting Williams would be insane

[jason]

9 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

What pieces do they need to end the trend?

I feel most drafted QBs need to come in to a good system like Mahomes, but then you see Stroud go to Hou with a new HC and OC and put up top 5 numbers. I think the Bears need a stud C and another good WR to have the basic pieces. 

Poles has put it out that the only way he budges on the #1 pick is if he is offered a historic haul. He did that last year and teams called.  He will listen again this year and maybe he gets another.  

Agree. They need to bolster the OL by getting a top tier OG and OC, adding a pro WR opposite DJ, and seeing if they can get someone to be a NFL-level RB that actually screw opponents. 

If they start with the OL, the rest is a lot easier.

[Stinger226]

6 hours ago, jason said:

Agree. They need to bolster the OL by getting a top tier OG and OC, adding a pro WR opposite DJ, and seeing if they can get someone to be a NFL-level RB that actually screw opponents. 

If they start with the OL, the rest is a lot easier.

The OL is key for any good offense. We need a top flight center, another guard when Jenkins gets hurt AGAIN, and a swing OT. 

[adam]

From Kurt Warner:

Quote

“I think the thing with Justin for me is, he hasn’t shown me he’s that guy. Doesn’t mean he’s not talented. Doesn’t mean he can’t be great and a franchise quarterback. But when you have three years and you don’t take out the doubt to go, ‘He’s our guy!’ I think you have to move on. 

 

 

[Stinger226]

50 minutes ago, adam said:

From Kurt Warner:

 

 

How many videos do you want  me to post of people saying we should keep Fields? There's a ton of them out there. Everyone has an opinion, that doesn't prove we should or shouldn't keep him. Two things will determine who we draft or keep. It's the QBs evaluations and what kind an offer they get for #1 pick. When it over , Poles may think JJ McCarthy has the best future and have him sit for a year. All kinds of reporters suggest they know what Poles is going to do. From the last two years we got to see, no information leaks from  Hallas Hall. I would say Poles, Warren and Ian Cunningham are in on the decision with Flus getting to add his opinion. 

Last year instead of taking Carter he opted for protecting the QB over  character issues of Carter. They both look like a great future. His year, his two first picks were DBs, unexpected. He will surprise us again this year.

[ChileBear]

1 hour ago, adam said:

From Kurt Warner:

 

 

Hey, he's only had three years. we should give him more time, right?  Sarcasm. Draft a QB at no. 1 and move forward now with the base Poles has put together. 

[Stinger226]

8 minutes ago, ChileBear said:

Hey, he's only had three years. we should give him more time, right?  Sarcasm. Draft a QB at no. 1 and move forward now with the base Poles has put together. 

I didn't say he deserves anymore time to show anything, there's several options and Poles will do what's best, whether it's popular or not.  With Mahomes winning his third SB in 4 years, a top QB seems the most logical choice but dismissing his other options will put you in the same space when most were saying Flus was gone. That didn't happen. I hope Williams or Maye are one of the golden boys and our franchise takes a giant leap forward but none of that been proven quite yet. Let's let the process play out first.

[ChileBear]

8 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I didn't say he deserves anymore time to show anything, there's several options and Poles will do what's best, whether it's popular or not.  With Mahomes winning his third SB in 4 years, a top QB seems the most logical choice but dismissing his other options will put you in the same space when most were saying Flus was gone. That didn't happen. I hope Williams or Maye are one of the golden boys and our franchise takes a giant leap forward but none of that been proven quite yet. Let's let the process play out first.

Right. Going to be a very interesting offseason and, as we've done for ages, hope springs eternal. LOL

 

[dawhizz]

Here's my Bears QB brain dump:

Long story short, I do not envy the decision Ryan Poles has to make.

I like Fields the person and like a lot of the things he does on the field, but I can't shake the fact that through pretty much the first half of each of the last two seasons, I thought he was awful.  He does appear to be improving, but he's still not making easy decisions and throws that  I need to see to make me think he's THE GUY.  I definitely see the value in potentially trading the #1 pick and the haul you could get, but the big problem there is the QB class seem VERY shaky next year.  So if Fields doesn't make major improvement next year, all that draft capital won't matter because there will be no one worth trading up for.  No one's trading a franchise QB no matter how many draft picks you have and you can't just sign one.  Sure, someone could break out next year in college football, but it's hard to envision, even with a break out season, that guy being seen as on the Caleb/Drake level.  Which is all the more complicated for me because . . . I'm not sure I love the QBs in this draft either.  I love the flashes from Caleb and his arm talent is unreal, but, as someone who can admit I wanted no part of Patrick Mahomes when he was coming out, I see the same concerns I had with Mahomes as far as mechanics, holding the ball too long, trying to do too much, etc.  Just because Mahomes worked out, doesn't mean that every talented QB with those same concerns is going to be Mahomes.  And for Maye I like him OK, and I want to like him more, I just don't feel like I see him drive the ball the way I see, say, Justin Herbert do (since they are often compared).  

I guess where I end up landing as far as what I THINK I would do is this: (1) Move on from Fields, (2) if you have one QB clearly over another between Williams and Maye, draft that guy, (3) if you think they will both be great NFL QBs, and your grades are very close between the two, and if Washington will really give you (as has been speculated) #2, their second round pick this year, and their first next year for #1, you trade down a spot and take Maye.  

[ChileBear]

4 minutes ago, dawhizz said:

Here's my Bears QB brain dump:

Long story short, I do not envy the decision Ryan Poles has to make.

I like Fields the person and like a lot of the things he does on the field, but I can't shake the fact that through pretty much the first half of each of the last two seasons, I thought he was awful.  He does appear to be improving, but he's still not making easy decisions and throws that  I need to see to make me think he's THE GUY.  I definitely see the value in potentially trading the #1 pick and the haul you could get, but the big problem there is the QB class seem VERY shaky next year.  So if Fields doesn't make major improvement next year, all that draft capital won't matter because there will be no one worth trading up for.  No one's trading a franchise QB no matter how many draft picks you have and you can't just sign one.  Sure, someone could break out next year in college football, but it's hard to envision, even with a break out season, that guy being seen as on the Caleb/Drake level.  Which is all the more complicated for me because . . . I'm not sure I love the QBs in this draft either.  I love the flashes from Caleb and his arm talent is unreal, but, as someone who can admit I wanted no part of Patrick Mahomes when he was coming out, I see the same concerns I had with Mahomes as far as mechanics, holding the ball too long, trying to do too much, etc.  Just because Mahomes worked out, doesn't mean that every talented QB with those same concerns is going to be Mahomes.  And for Maye I like him OK, and I want to like him more, I just don't feel like I see him drive the ball the way I see, say, Justin Herbert do (since they are often compared).  

I guess where I end up landing as far as what I THINK I would do is this: (1) Move on from Fields, (2) if you have one QB clearly over another between Williams and Maye, draft that guy, (3) if you think they will both be great NFL QBs, and your grades are very close between the two, and if Washington will really give you (as has been speculated) #2, their second round pick this year, and their first next year for #1, you trade down a spot and take Maye.  

Great thing for us is that we have the first pick, our choice of the litter AND pick nine as well. What's the odds that, if we trade out of no. 1, we end up with the first pick over-all next year? Highly unlikely. That's why I'm in for drafting QB with that first pick. And we could also trade pick 9, depending on how the cards play out. This is our once-in-a-generation drafting opportunity and I feel confident in Pole's to get it right.

[Stinger226]

11 minutes ago, ChileBear said:

Great thing for us is that we have the first pick, our choice of the litter AND pick nine as well. What's the odds that, if we trade out of no. 1, we end up with the first pick over-all next year? Highly unlikely. That's why I'm in for drafting QB with that first pick. And we could also trade pick 9, depending on how the cards play out. This is our once-in-a-generation drafting opportunity and I feel confident in Pole's to get it right.

He may like another QB better than Williams which allows him to trade back and still grab himself a QB of the future. If it's not Maye or Williams, he can load up and still get his guy. His deep dive on prospects if different than what we get to see. I still think his option 3 is in play with drafting a QB and keeping Fields one more year and let the prospect sit for a year. If he can get a couple of # 1s in trades, he will not need the top pick to get a good QB next year if that's what he goes with. He will have 3 firsts, 3 or 4 number twos possible with trade backs.

What a fascinating year to be a Bear fan . 

[adam]

1 hour ago, dawhizz said:

Here's my Bears QB brain dump:

Long story short, I do not envy the decision Ryan Poles has to make.

I like Fields the person and like a lot of the things he does on the field, but I can't shake the fact that through pretty much the first half of each of the last two seasons, I thought he was awful.  He does appear to be improving, but he's still not making easy decisions and throws that  I need to see to make me think he's THE GUY.  I definitely see the value in potentially trading the #1 pick and the haul you could get, but the big problem there is the QB class seem VERY shaky next year.  So if Fields doesn't make major improvement next year, all that draft capital won't matter because there will be no one worth trading up for.  No one's trading a franchise QB no matter how many draft picks you have and you can't just sign one.  Sure, someone could break out next year in college football, but it's hard to envision, even with a break out season, that guy being seen as on the Caleb/Drake level.  Which is all the more complicated for me because . . . I'm not sure I love the QBs in this draft either.  I love the flashes from Caleb and his arm talent is unreal, but, as someone who can admit I wanted no part of Patrick Mahomes when he was coming out, I see the same concerns I had with Mahomes as far as mechanics, holding the ball too long, trying to do too much, etc.  Just because Mahomes worked out, doesn't mean that every talented QB with those same concerns is going to be Mahomes.  And for Maye I like him OK, and I want to like him more, I just don't feel like I see him drive the ball the way I see, say, Justin Herbert do (since they are often compared).  

I guess where I end up landing as far as what I THINK I would do is this: (1) Move on from Fields, (2) if you have one QB clearly over another between Williams and Maye, draft that guy, (3) if you think they will both be great NFL QBs, and your grades are very close between the two, and if Washington will really give you (as has been speculated) #2, their second round pick this year, and their first next year for #1, you trade down a spot and take Maye.  

Yeah, normally there is a Heisman finalist this year (or winner) that is leaving school the following year.  Every finalist this year (Daniels, MHJ, Nix, and Penix) entered the draft this year, so there is no clear cut leader. Some guys may emerge, but those are high risk guys like Zach Wilson. 

If you had to pick a QB that is in this draft or projected to be in the next one, Williams is the clear leader. It is just going to be what type of QB do you want. Gunslinger - Williams, Prototypical Passer - Maye, Ultra-Mobile QB - Daniels, Winner/Leader - McCarthy, Productive System QB -Nix, Dynamic Thrower/Older/Injuries - Penix.

The theory is if Fields is getting traded, it will happen before FA opens. Teams are going to want their QB plan figured out before then, especially because of salary implications. A trade is sometimes complicated compared to just signing a guy.

Combine Feb 29th - Mar 3rd

Free Agency opens - Mar 11th/Mar 13th.

[killakrzydav]

I don't think Maye is qb2. Its Daniels and not close IMO

[BearFan PHX]

Id put Rattler and Milton on that list too. I dont know where on the list, but in the discussion.

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, dawhizz said:

Here's my Bears QB brain dump:

Long story short, I do not envy the decision Ryan Poles has to make.

I like Fields the person and like a lot of the things he does on the field, but I can't shake the fact that through pretty much the first half of each of the last two seasons, I thought he was awful.  He does appear to be improving, but he's still not making easy decisions and throws that  I need to see to make me think he's THE GUY.  I definitely see the value in potentially trading the #1 pick and the haul you could get, but the big problem there is the QB class seem VERY shaky next year.  So if Fields doesn't make major improvement next year, all that draft capital won't matter because there will be no one worth trading up for.  No one's trading a franchise QB no matter how many draft picks you have and you can't just sign one.  Sure, someone could break out next year in college football, but it's hard to envision, even with a break out season, that guy being seen as on the Caleb/Drake level.  Which is all the more complicated for me because . . . I'm not sure I love the QBs in this draft either.  I love the flashes from Caleb and his arm talent is unreal, but, as someone who can admit I wanted no part of Patrick Mahomes when he was coming out, I see the same concerns I had with Mahomes as far as mechanics, holding the ball too long, trying to do too much, etc.  Just because Mahomes worked out, doesn't mean that every talented QB with those same concerns is going to be Mahomes.  And for Maye I like him OK, and I want to like him more, I just don't feel like I see him drive the ball the way I see, say, Justin Herbert do (since they are often compared).  

I guess where I end up landing as far as what I THINK I would do is this: (1) Move on from Fields, (2) if you have one QB clearly over another between Williams and Maye, draft that guy, (3) if you think they will both be great NFL QBs, and your grades are very close between the two, and if Washington will really give you (as has been speculated) #2, their second round pick this year, and their first next year for #1, you trade down a spot and take Maye.  

This all makes sense. I feel the same way. It all hinges on player evaluations.

There will be more pre draft film to see on YouTube soon so we can all get a peek at these guys.

It does feel like a particularly deep class, but each player has abilities and questions too, so this is potentially a tough one. Unless our scouts think Williams is a god, with a good head, then it's easy.

[dawhizz]

16 hours ago, killakrzydav said:

I don't think Maye is qb2. Its Daniels and not close IMO

Daniels looks just like Fields to me - not sure if would make much sense for the Bears dump Fields for Daniels unless you were convinced his process was either better than Fields coming out or likely to be better than him in the near future.

[Stinger226]

Any drafted players future is just projection, some have many reasons that you think that but it's one to two years to know the truth. We are a world now where you have to have instant success or you are considered a bust or a poor choice. Gordon and Brisker took some hits their first year but are looked to be future stars now. There will be some good QBs in this draft we just don't know which ones that will be. Hopefully Poles figures it out.  

Last year Nate Davis came here with a very good player tag but with his mother dying it totally screwed his season. I think he comes back with a better state of mind and will excel. Nothing is set in stone in football, every year can be different. 

After two years it's easy to see V Jones is a bust. In the same picture, Tyler Scott didn't impress anyone but I think will take a big step forward this year. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

50 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

After two years it's easy to see V Jones is a bust. In the same picture, Tyler Scott didn't impress anyone but I think will take a big step forward this year. 

What is odd, is DJ mentions out of his WR group, he would take Velus Jones with him if he went elsewhere.  I hope DJ is taking him under his wing and maybe he will help him translate his abilities to becoming a performer.

[Stinger226]

10 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

What is odd, is DJ mentions out of his WR group, he would take Velus Jones with him if he went elsewhere.  I hope DJ is taking him under his wing and maybe he will help him translate his abilities to becoming a performer.

Never heard that , maybe the coaching staff gets him more involved this year. It's his speed that is the attraction.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Never heard that , maybe the coaching staff gets him more involved this year. It's his speed that is the attraction.

It was in a podcast posted earlier with DJ in Vegas doing many interviews. I don't think it was the one with Kat Williams.

[BearFan PHX]

Velus is stupid. He won't ever get too far because he isnt smart.

I saw a clip of him this last offseason, and the coach was telling him that a right footed punter, the ball drifts right, and a left footed punter the ball drifts left, and he said out loud "Ok right goes right, left goes left"

And it's not like it's his rookie year. But he's still working on memorizing right means right left means left.

If DJ says that Velus is the best other receiver on the team, maybe he is talking up his friends, not because of their abilities, but because they are his buddies. And maybe that's why he is talking up Fields too.

And he said today the first words that come to mind about Eberflus are "laid back"

Im really starting to question this football culture.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 minute ago, BearFan PHX said:

Velus is stupid. He won't ever get too far because he isnt smart.

I saw a clip of him this last offseason, and the coach was telling him that a right footed punter, the ball drifts right, and a left footed punter the ball drifts left, and he said out loud "Ok right goes right, left goes left"

And it's not like it's his rookie year. But he's still working on memorizing right means right left means left.

If Dj says that Velus is the best other receiver on the team, maybe he is talking up his friends, not because of their abilities, but because they are his buddies. And maybe that's why he is talking up Fields too.

And he said today the first words that come to mind about Eberflus are "laid back"

Im really starting to question this football culture.

He did say Velus is an exciting individual to be around.  He also said Scott is too raw. They are just people giving their takes, no secret meanings to any of it.  We are at an age where we are connected with their takes almost instantly. 

[BearFan PHX]

4 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

He did say Velus is an exciting individual to be around.  He also said Scott is too raw. They are just people giving their takes, no secret meanings to any of it.  We are at an age where we are connected with their takes almost instantly. 

Im just saying DJ keeps talking up the least disciplined players on the squad. The ones with raw physical ability who arent playing smart.

Its not a secret meaning, it's just an honest take of what he thinks.

And I think this is the culture we are building.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Just now, BearFan PHX said:

Im just saying DJ keeps talking up the least disciplined players on the squad. The ones with raw physical ability who arent playing smart.

And I think this is the culture we are building.

That might be a good reason to trade down, lol.  This team is stuck with what was built for at least another year. 

[Stinger226]

6 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Im just saying DJ keeps talking up the least disciplined players on the squad. The ones with raw physical ability who arent playing smart.

Its not a secret meaning, it's just an honest take of what he thinks.

And I think this is the culture we are building.

You just exactly explained why these things happen. It has a culture now that supports people whether they are honest about it or not. If players were calling out other players, that wouldn't be good. 

[BearFan PHX]

12 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

That might be a good reason to trade down, lol.  This team is stuck with what was built for at least another year. 

I think we have guys on the roster with definite talent. I think DJ Moore is a stud.

In fact, I can imagine that Moore doesnt need a coach who yells at him, or is insistent on reaching deeper. But most of them do. Very few players have the football IQ that Moore has. Moore sees the entire field and is a master of spacing. He is like an offensive sided Mike Brown. He knows exactly where everyone is going to be, and how to get to the right spot.

Sweat is a monster too. Kmet is developing nicely. i think our LBs are extremely talented, but need more coaching.

I think Wright is gonna eat the league this year. I like our running back situation. Our corners are all players, and Brisker is great too. if Jenkins stays healthy, hes a stud too. I think Davis has it in him to play well. But theres a player that seems like he needs motivating.

So Im not mad at most of the roster. And Im not mad at the position coaches. The offensive coaches look promising too.

A lot of what's been built is solid.

But I still dont trust Eberflus. Hopefully, all the good coaches around him will keep him from getting too safe or too weird in situations.

But could you imagine Andy Reid being described as "laid back" as the first thing that comes to mind? or Belichick, or Shanahan, or any of the coaches in the playoffs this year?

It's football, and it shouldnt be this big mystery. We know what winners look and sound like.