Yet another Caleb Williams Red Flag

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

The debate is over.  We know what's going to happen and the biggest debacle is going to be what do we do with JF.  The Bears need to optimize the value, which might be low now.  If it doesn't increase, the Bears cannot give it away. I am not on the board that having CW and JF in the same locker room will be bad. They might not even share the locker room by the time the season starts because they will be ready to pull the trigger once they get the value they are looking for. JFs contract was fully guaranteed, so he is paid for until it ends.  There might be offset language saying the team they trade him too picks up that contract, but I have not read that.  I feel in order for Poles to trade, he wants a low 1st or high 2nd with maybe a 4th or 5th. 

Poles comes from KC, they drafted Mahomes and didn't trade Smith until the next year. Smith was more accomplished than Fields, he has a template from the KC situation. It gives him the chance to raise the trade value of Justin. Poles isn't dumping Fields for chump change, he will likely sit Caleb for a year like they did in KC. We are at the spot in the rebuild where we have to win and a rookie QB is an unknown factor. Justin is a competitor, he's not crying his way out of town. If Caleb has a problem with it , it brings back his red flag character issues that came up before the draft. Mahomes never had a problem with it in KC. 

[Daventry]

The thing is about DJ’s comments, is that just loyalty talking?  Do we want to count on a wide receiver to guide our team? 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 minutes ago, Daventry said:

The thing is about DJ’s comments, is that just loyalty talking?  Do we want to count on a wide receiver to guide our team? 

Adam has asked that several times.  DJ Moore has also repeated this commentary and said he brought it up during the exit interviews.  My response to Adam (and others) is he could have left well enough alone and said nothing at all or just been vague in his response.  Like ‘it’s been great playing with Justin and I trust the team will do what’s best for the team’.  But he has been pretty specific. He also went as far as saying if he had to choose between the “top two” QBs in the draft and Justin, he’d choose Justin.  (I’m paraphrasing of course). 
 

Now ask yourself this.  If the player you made ‘the move’ to get last year says all this AND has the career year he had.  What weight do you think his opinion has?  And no do I think he’s running the team.  

[Stinger226]

3 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Adam has asked that several times.  DJ Moore has also repeated this commentary and said he brought it up during the exit interviews.  My response to Adam (and others) is he could have left well enough alone and said nothing at all or just been vague in his response.  Like ‘it’s been great playing with Justin and I trust the team will do what’s best for the team’.  But he has been pretty specific. He also went as far as saying if he had to choose between the “top two” QBs in the draft and Justin, he’d choose Justin.  (I’m paraphrasing of course). 
 

Now ask yourself this.  If the player you made ‘the move’ to get last year says all this AND has the career year he had.  What weight do you think his opinion has?  And no do I think he’s running the team.  

Poles was a former player, he absolutely listens to his stars. The scenario where we draft Caleb and keep Fields has always been an option. What better way to keep the moral of the team up by  having Caleb earn the respect of the team as he transitions. likely Caleb's first year would be more Young like than Stroud. We can keep winning, treat Fields with respect and the team has time to earn respect for Caleb. 

Fields always misses a couple of games a year from minor injuries, what better way to transition  a new QB than have him earn it and get the team behind him.

[jason]

3 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

1. some people believe williams is too much of a risk to pick with the overall #1. he could be a bust.

2. these same people believe we should trade down and get a plethora of draft picks AND pick a lesser qb.

i just gotta ask.... what makes these picks you will accrue any different from the williams pick? according to that theory, they could ALL be busts right?

if you deem williams the best qb in this qb heavy draft why in the H E double hocky sticks would you NOT pick him and roll the dice that we will have a high end qb that will beat the good/accomplished qb's in our own division for a freaking decade?

isn't that what this is all about? being at LEAST good enough to win the division each year to get us a SHOT at a supberbowl and WINNING IT?

having a solid team that maybe makes it to the playoffs  every 5 years or more as a wildcard or even rarer win our division and has an even rarer chance to win a superbowl is just not enough.

it's some kind of glutton phobia some are having. for god's sake we have TWO top ten picks!!!

they want to trade out of the rarest of the rare situation to land that key player that moves this franchise into a yearly contender and for what? didn't the 85 bears teach these people ANYTHING?

the 85 team had all-pro/HOF players on both sides of the ball (remember this was prior the cap) yet what did they lack? a freaking QB (after mcmahon's career was stolen from him, and also a good coach i might add) to win those tight games. if we couldn't do it with that team it's insane to believe we could do it in the salary capped NFL of today!!!

Short answer: More high picks means better odds of more positions being filled with potentially better players.

Long answer: Grabbing a QB at #1 means less day 1-2 picks, less future draft capital, and gambling three years of the franchise on a 50/50 roll of the dice who has numerous red flags and is not the unanimous best QB of the draft class, while filling other positions with known lesser quantities (it’s pure salary cap math at that point). Additionally it means trashing a QB who, while he may not be on track for the HOF at this point, is solid, electrifying at times, and appears to be a clubhouse leader with near universal support, despite the glaringly obvious team issues hindering his potential progression (coaching carousel, bad OL, bad offensive weapons until DJ).

[Stinger226]

I trust Poles to make the right choice. We are in win mode now, A rookie QB would have us regress for this year at least. I think the possibility still exists to add picks and still draft a QB to sit behind Justin. 

[BearFan PHX]

31 minutes ago, jason said:

Additionally it means trashing a QB who, while he may not be on track for the HOF at this point, is solid, electrifying at times, and appears to be a clubhouse leader with near universal support, despite the glaringly obvious team issues hindering his potential progression (coaching carousel, bad OL, bad offensive weapons until DJ).

Justin is definitely electrifying at times, but i dont think you can call him solid at all.

[Daventry]

55 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Adam has asked that several times.  DJ Moore has also repeated this commentary and said he brought it up during the exit interviews.  My response to Adam (and others) is he could have left well enough alone and said nothing at all or just been vague in his response.  Like ‘it’s been great playing with Justin and I trust the team will do what’s best for the team’.  But he has been pretty specific. He also went as far as saying if he had to choose between the “top two” QBs in the draft and Justin, he’d choose Justin.  (I’m paraphrasing of course). 
 

Now ask yourself this.  If the player you made ‘the move’ to get last year says all this AND has the career year he had.  What weight do you think his opinion has?  And no do I think he’s running the team.  

He could have given more generic responses, that is true.  I am not completely convinced he is doing anything more than being a team guy but I see your point.

More importantly though, I don’t want DJ Moore to be making this decision.  I will leave him to catching passes and leave the decision making to the management.

[Stinger226]

5 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Justin is definitely electrifying at times, but i dont think you can call him solid at all.

A deep dive into statistics suggests differently.

 

[killakrzydav]

I'm a JF guy. Still want to see him succeed. I prefer Daniels to CW. That being said, job on the line if I miss, no chance I would trade down and not select CW #1. Unlesss his medicals are jacked. But there is now way to hide jacked medicals and perform like he has over the past three years.  What this reminds me of the QB , Todd Maranovich(I think he was on the raiders...red hair), who was born to be a QB and trained like an athlete to be a qb. He's that guy. He's been groomed on how to handle adversity and media pressure since he was in 10th grade.  I think he will be a star.

[killakrzydav]

I definitely think Justin is solid.  I offered him to my Raider fan homie today hypothetically and he would prefer JF over Russ or drafting. He'd gladly give 44 and their fourth this year or 44 and up to a conditional 2nd round based on performance.

It's my opinion that JF is well respected around the league by players and fans. We probably dislike him as a fanbase (until the last half of the season) more than anyone.

[killakrzydav]

WE certainly haven't helped him by giving him a crap IOL or a weapon of any kind. Now we have decent tackles and the foundation of a complete line. I have no idea what happened to Mooney but that dude sucks. Kmet, he's cool, but I aint bragging on that dude like ever.  Another weapon and a decent Oline would help JF or whomever considerably.

[killakrzydav]

 

[Stinger226]

32 minutes ago, killakrzydav said:

I definitely think Justin is solid.  I offered him to my Raider fan homie today hypothetically and he would prefer JF over Russ or drafting. He'd gladly give 44 and their fourth this year or 44 and up to a conditional 2nd round based on performance.

It's my opinion that JF is well respected around the league by players and fans. We probably dislike him as a fanbase (until the last half of the season) more than anyone.

Last year Justin was picked by his NFL peers as the 87 th best player in the League. Trevor Lawrence was either in the 90s or didn't make the list. Very well respected in the League amongst players.

[Stinger226]

12 minutes ago, killakrzydav said:

 

If they were already set on drafting him , would they be doing that?

[killakrzydav]

Cover all bases?

[killakrzydav]

I hope they go see all qbs tbh.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

14 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

If they were already set on drafting him , would they be doing that?

Remember when we heard of a contingent of Bears staff flying private to the West Coast to allegedly talk with Kingsbury and ???  (Before he was hired in WA and the Bears had hired Waldron).  Many speculated it was because Kingsbury best knew Williams as the OC in USC and that the Bears were set on getting Kingsbury.  

[Mongo3451]

20 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Remember when we heard of a contingent of Bears staff flying private to the West Coast to allegedly talk with Kingsbury and ???  (Before he was hired in WA and the Bears had hired Waldron).  Many speculated it was because Kingsbury best knew Williams as the OC in USC and that the Bears were set on getting Kingsbury.  

They interviewed him for six hours.  You don't have to marry the girl if she gives you want you want...

[Lucky Luciano]

4 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

One name: Bryce Young.  

 

Seriously ask yourself this question again, what are the odds of one player busting (IE: Williams) vs 2-3 other high end players that could be gotten with trading the 1st overall?  And consider one of those could be another first round for next year?  

bryce young huh? at 5'10"? i don't remember anyone calling him a generational talent before the draft. do you??

the 'odds' of every single player picked is the same in the range of what round and position you pick them. the odds that you have a better chance at a player being good is a sliding scale for each and EVERY player. just because you pick MORE doesn't mean any single one has better odds or a better chance to be an excellent player in the NFL.

take a thousand dollars and go to vegas and play some roulette with your system. let me know how it works out.

[Lucky Luciano]

4 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

But what does Moore know?  He only played with Justin and had a career year while doing so.   ??‍♂️

 

uhhh so what? who cares what he says. if fields doesn't turn the corner moore ain't gonna offer himself up free of charge in a trade for us to move up to draft another one.

if we trade fields to some crap team will he volunteer to go along?

 

[Stinger226]

18 minutes ago, Lucky Luciano said:

uhhh so what? who cares what he says. if fields doesn't turn the corner moore ain't gonna offer himself up free of charge in a trade for us to move up to draft another one.

if we trade fields to some crap team will he volunteer to go along?

 

If Caleb is that guy he will come in with the challenge of winning he locker room. Over. Success will win the locker room, if he has Bryce Young season, he will have a lot of pressure on him. How ever they play this, it works better if he doesn't start until late season or sits the whole year.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

48 minutes ago, Lucky Luciano said:

take a thousand dollars and go to vegas and play some roulette with your system. let me know how it works out

So by your rationale I’m more likely to be consistently successful by betting on the 0 or double 00 straight up than I do the column or corner bets?  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

50 minutes ago, Lucky Luciano said:

bryce young huh? at 5'10"? i don't remember anyone calling him a generational talent before the draft. do you??

I was answering your question, even highlighted (bolded) it. Didn’t say a word about generational talent. He was heralded enough to go #1 overall by the so called “experts”.  Much like Williams is this year. 

[jason]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

A deep dive into statistics suggests differently.

 

Thanks. I was going to post this. 

Dude had pressure roughly 50% of drop backs. League average is 35%. No wonder his accuracy isn't perfect. No wonder he holds onto the ball sometimes. Side note: I would argue some of the stats are skewed because Fields is able to run and evade the pressure.

Trade the #1. Stockpile picks. Build around the team leader.