I hate to say it

[killakrzydav]

But even though I’m a JF fan, and a fans of JD, We can’t pass on Caleb.

 His mental makeup separates him from the class. He’s everything we want in a qb. Most likely, we as bears fans will never get an opportunity to draft a qb of this caliber in our lifetime

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, killakrzydav said:

But even though I’m a JF fan, and a fans of JD, We can’t pass on Caleb.

 His mental makeup separates him from the class. He’s everything we want in a qb. Most likely, we as bears fans will never get an opportunity to draft a qb of this caliber in our lifetime

you may well be right. he looks good from every angle. THe more I hear about and from him, the more convicned I am that he's the right move.

But I cant help feeling some nagging feeling that somethings wrong, but I dont know where it's coming from. I have NOTHING to base it on. I dont care about the nails, in fact if he is different in some way, that could work as a chip on his shoulder and extra motivation if that's his character. I think the crying in his moms arms is a positive.

Everything I see on tape looks incredible. The more i watch the more I think the common narratives about him are wrong. He plays in structure all the time. He makes fast decisive reads when they are there. His throwing motion is insanely fast and compact, like Marino. On the field, he is a rare specimen.

His dad is being weird, but I don't even care about that. I like that he and they are competitive and want to milk the NFL for every penny they can get. I think he wants to win a lot of games. I think he wants to be the hero. You gotta love all that.

So why do I have this weird feeling? Am I just scared something is too good to be true? Every other new Bears QB was a reach or they fell, and so I thought "wow we went up to grab Trubisky, or wow Justin fell to us!" this time you get your pick. Theyre all available to us. Maybe I'm just spooked by that. i dunno.

But the more I research him, the more I try to disprove him watching film, the more he wins me over.

It's possible that we are looking at the moment when everything changed for the Bears. This might be the next GOAT. It's exciting, and having had my Bears heart broken so many times before, maybe I'm just scared to believe. But even that is fading the more film I watch.

Lets go.

*also I havent seen enough film on Daniels, Maye and a couple others yet to be sure that one of them isn't even mightier, but Im not expecting that. Williams looks really really good.

[adam]

People have to remember Williams, Maye, Daniels, and McCarthy are just kids (Penix is already a grandpa). College kids do stupid shit. They paint F*%K <insert school name here> on their chests in every game. They literally chant "F The Other Team's Name" all the time. 

I don't recall any alcohol, drug, domestic violence, or leaving the scene of a car accident where there are dead teammates kind of incidents from Williams.

He honestly seems like a well-spoken kid and the moment wasn't too big for him, which I found somewhat impressive. 

My concerns are clearing medical and making sure he can read defenses, can change the play at the LoS, make pre and post snap adjustments AND throw the damn ball over the MoF.

[BearFan PHX]

8 minutes ago, adam said:

People have to remember Williams, Maye, Daniels, and McCarthy are just kids (Penix is already a grandpa). College kids do stupid shit. They paint F*%K <insert school name here> on their chests in every game. They literally chant "F The Other Team's Name" all the time. 

I don't recall any alcohol, drug, domestic violence, or leaving the scene of a car accident where there are dead teammates kind of incidents from Williams.

He honestly seems like a well-spoken kid and the moment wasn't too big for him, which I found somewhat impressive. 

My concerns are clearing medical and making sure he can read defenses, can change the play at the LoS, make pre and post snap adjustments AND throw the damn ball over the MoF.

Youre right, and every QB needs to make a huge incremental step up into the NFL. Predicting how that will go is why this is so hard to do. No one is ready for the NFL coming out of college. The first day of training camp is the first time they've seen NFL defenses and their speed, and how small the new passing windows are.

As far as whether Williams had those skills you listed in college, the proof is already in hours of tape. The Bears and everyone else already know he can do all those things at the college level. He is as impressive a prospect as there is.

What's left is character. Not just if they are troubled, but how competitive they are and how they will handle the transition and stress in the NFL.

For example, one worry might be - since Caleb was so good in college, how does his ego react to not being up to NFL quality initially. Does his ego tell him he is and shut down, or does his competitive fire burn hotter to study and get better. I think it strongly looks like the latter, which is great, but this is where the uncertainty still lies, his on the field skill is already off the charts on the tape.

[jason]

32 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

As far as whether Williams had those skills you listed in college, the proof is already in hours of tape. The Bears and everyone else already know he can do all those things at the college level. He is as impressive a prospect as there is.
 

I’d argue the proof is questionable. Multiple people have broken down and shown where he has serious flaws reading defenses and holding the ball forever. But since he played in the weak ass PAC-Whatever, every team pretty much gets 30 points by default.

And that doesn’t even touch on the topic of why he has huge stats against bad teams, but his production drops when he plays decent-good teams. 

Arm talent? Sure, elite.

Big plays? Yep.

Game play question marks? Also yes.

[Stinger226]

51 minutes ago, jason said:

I’d argue the proof is questionable. Multiple people have broken down and shown where he has serious flaws reading defenses and holding the ball forever. But since he played in the weak ass PAC-Whatever, every team pretty much gets 30 points by default.

And that doesn’t even touch on the topic of why he has huge stats against bad teams, but his production drops when he plays decent-good teams. 

Arm talent? Sure, elite.

Big plays? Yep.

Game play question marks? Also yes.

I'm not a scout or pretend to be one, so I trust Poles to do the deep dive and make the right choice. As much I'm a JF1 fan, if Caleb is the dude, who wouldn't want him. The only thing that as always bothered me is crowning him Mahomes 2 without the process being completed, that's happening now.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, jason said:

I’d argue the proof is questionable. Multiple people have broken down and shown where he has serious flaws reading defenses and holding the ball forever. But since he played in the weak ass PAC-Whatever, every team pretty much gets 30 points by default.

And that doesn’t even touch on the topic of why he has huge stats against bad teams, but his production drops when he plays decent-good teams. 

Arm talent? Sure, elite.

Big plays? Yep.

Game play question marks? Also yes.

I guess it depends on how you measure it.

I agree that there are times he does all those things, so from that point of view you can call it a concern. But I tend to evaluate these guys by looking to see what they CAN do. So while he sometimes holes the ball too long, he also makes quick reads and throws with anticipation, so you know he CAN do it.

With Justin, he holds the ball because he doesnt see it until it's too late, with Williams, it seems to be because he is waiting for better longer home run options, not because he doesnt see it. There are lots of plays where he goes through his reads quickly and gets the ball out in rhythm too.

I think Williams was looking for home runs because his defense was so bad and he felt pressure to score a lot of points.

So while I agree that he does sometimes do the things youre saying, I also see plenty of evidence that he is capable of running the offense in tempo too, so I dont worry whether he has that skill or not. He wont need to develop that skill for the pros, hell just need to be more disciplined which is completely coachable?

[AZ54]

I'm 100% out on Williams. I've been watching many reviews on Williams.  Elite talent but red flags are all over the place for me and it's that floor that scares me.  I see the arm talent and the pocket presence at times.   

Red flags on the field:  These are correctable IF he's coachable.  I see a guy who far too often holds onto the ball too long.  So yes he can get out of trouble in the pocket but if he threw on time he wouldn't have to.  People see the highlight play from the scramble and it's good that he can do that.  But why can't he just take his wide open checkdowns?  It's not that he can't throw on time it's that he often doesn't.   

He does not throw a lot of picks but I agree with one of the film analysts who said he's afraid to get hit.  When he's under pressure he makes bad decisions and bad throws.  Too often it just looks really bad.  Seeing that trait on film in college where he's usually the best athlete in the backfield is a concern because the athletes coming after him only get better in the NFL.   Again, this doesn't mean he can't learn to throw the ball away.  

I'm not sure how coachable he is when he's out there saying he's going to rewrite the record books and he hasn't seen an NFL defense yet.   I'm not sure how coachable he is if he's in Chicago when he doesn't want to be there.  

Red flags off the field.  Dude has no agent and is going to "negotiate" for himself.  I've seen that game with Roquan and others and it's not pretty.  On top of that he's already said he wants part ownership or something like that.   I'm not sure where this is headed especially if....

He does not want to be in Chicago.  Anyone who saw his quote from the press conference where he said he'd be excited to play in Chicago.  Then he immediately said "it doesn't matter how I feel".   Yes it does!  Nobody makes that statement unless they would feel bad about their situation.    Why this matters to me is leadership when times are tough.  Times are tough in Chicago.   If the Bears bypass a good QB in Fields (not great) plus a record draft haul in order to draft Williams then Williams will mostly play with the existing talent we have today.   We'll add a few FAs and certainly one will be a better Center so that helps.   Pick 9 might be a WR but might not be and the fall all the way back to 3rd Rd picks bypasses a ton of good 2nd Rd WR prospects.   In that scenario all eyes will be on Wiliams to prove he's the guy.  If he stumbles how does he handle the press conferences and the locker room?   

As to FA .... with cap space increasing by $30mil teams can hold onto any good player they want.  We've seen this before with big cap increases.  This year FA and next year with another $30mil boost forecasted will both be very soft in terms of avaliable FA talent.   Of the few good ones that hit the market demand and lots of $$$ chasing them will make them way overpriced.  Stay out of that business.  Acquiring more draft picks now is the better approach IMO.  

Leadership... Williams' teammates sure didn't seem to have his back after the bowl game.  

I still think it's likely Williams is a very good NFL QB.  He has enough talent to succeed.  That alone doesn't sway me because I'm one of the very few who thinks we already have a good NFL QB.  Even if Williams were to become Aaron Rodgers... that guy only won 1 Superbowl.  If you're curious what an MVP caliber QB who is a prick can do to a team there is the evidence.  Rodgers is well known for ignoring play calls and doing his own thing.  

Still one Superbowl win is better than what we have today.  I agree, but I like the 49ers path where you load up a team with talent.  We can do that with a good QB and a trade back, or two.  The flip side watching Mahomes struggle all year long with an average WR corp.  Their defense got them over the top.   

Now the eval for me is what is Drake Maye capable of.  He didn't impress me in either of the games I watched but I can also see his arm talent is really good.  Is it worth it to trade #1 to Wash and pick up both of their 2nd Rd picks and 2025  1st?   Then trade Fields?  I still have work to do on him but I've seen a few analysts say Maye is the best QB in this draft.  Others say he's too inconsistent. 

Why would Wash give up so much to move up 1 spot?  Simple.  Their owner Magic Johnson is a former NBA player and in the NBA elite stars are all you need.    2 elite players and you are deep in the playoffs year after year.  Find a 3rd wheel and you win the Championship.  If he holds that same philosophy for the NFL QB, and people calling Williams the next Mahomes influences that, then he'll pay.   I don't think he'll risk waiting until draft day either.  Given the Kingsbury signing and the way it happened they might as well have put up billboard on the side of the highway listing their intentions.  

If I'm Poles I'm waiting on that deal with Wash.   Then from #2 I sit likely until draft day and let all the other QB needy teams wonder what we're doing.  In the meantime they will fall in love with one of Daniels or Maye.  That could be New England getting nervous and we trade back to #3 as long as the Bears are content with Fields or whichever QB remains on the board.   

Do that and draft Maye or Daniels, trade Fields,  and you're still sitting with multiple 1st/2nd round picks in future drafts.   If Poles likes Fields he can trade back again from #3 and let the Giants or Atlanta draft the remaining top QB.  Or if the Raiders come in big, go back to 13.   We'd have so many extra draft picks in 2024, 2025, and maybe even 2026, that we could pull off one of Killa's elite drafts.   

Poles has to determine where the blue chip prospects end.  Is it after pick 8, 9, 10, 11?   If the Raiders come in with Maxx Crosby in the deal that offsets one of our blue chip needs at DE and it's easier to drop back to 13 while still grabbing one blue chipper at 9. 

 

 

[Stinger226]

5 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I'm 100% out on Williams. I've been watching many reviews on Williams.  Elite talent but red flags are all over the place for me and it's that floor that scares me.  I see the arm talent and the pocket presence at times.   

Red flags on the field:  These are correctable IF he's coachable.  I see a guy who far too often holds onto the ball too long.  So yes he can get out of trouble in the pocket but if he threw on time he wouldn't have to.  People see the highlight play from the scramble and it's good that he can do that.  But why can't he just take his wide open checkdowns?  It's not that he can't throw on time it's that he often doesn't.   

He does not throw a lot of picks but I agree with one of the film analysts who said he's afraid to get hit.  When he's under pressure he makes bad decisions and bad throws.  Too often it just looks really bad.  Seeing that trait on film in college where he's usually the best athlete in the backfield is a concern because the athletes coming after him only get better in the NFL.   Again, this doesn't mean he can't learn to throw the ball away.  

I'm not sure how coachable he is when he's out there saying he's going to rewrite the record books and he hasn't seen an NFL defense yet.   I'm not sure how coachable he is if he's in Chicago when he doesn't want to be there.  

Red flags off the field.  Dude has no agent and is going to "negotiate" for himself.  I've seen that game with Roquan and others and it's not pretty.  On top of that he's already said he wants part ownership or something like that.   I'm not sure where this is headed especially if....

He does not want to be in Chicago.  Anyone who saw his quote from the press conference where he said he'd be excited to play in Chicago.  Then he immediately said "it doesn't matter how I feel".   Yes it does!  Nobody makes that statement unless they would feel bad about their situation.    Why this matters to me is leadership when times are tough.  Times are tough in Chicago.   If the Bears bypass a good QB in Fields (not great) plus a record draft haul in order to draft Williams then Williams will mostly play with the existing talent we have today.   We'll add a few FAs and certainly one will be a better Center so that helps.   Pick 9 might be a WR but might not be and the fall all the way back to 3rd Rd picks bypasses a ton of good 2nd Rd WR prospects.   In that scenario all eyes will be on Wiliams to prove he's the guy.  If he stumbles how does he handle the press conferences and the locker room?   

As to FA .... with cap space increasing by $30mil teams can hold onto any good player they want.  We've seen this before with big cap increases.  This year FA and next year with another $30mil boost forecasted will both be very soft in terms of avaliable FA talent.   Of the few good ones that hit the market demand and lots of $$$ chasing them will make them way overpriced.  Stay out of that business.  Acquiring more draft picks now is the better approach IMO.  

Leadership... Williams' teammates sure didn't seem to have his back after the bowl game.  

I still think it's likely Williams is a very good NFL QB.  He has enough talent to succeed.  That alone doesn't sway me because I'm one of the very few who thinks we already have a good NFL QB.  Even if Williams were to become Aaron Rodgers... that guy only won 1 Superbowl.  If you're curious what an MVP caliber QB who is a prick can do to a team there is the evidence.  Rodgers is well known for ignoring play calls and doing his own thing.  

Still one Superbowl win is better than what we have today.  I agree, but I like the 49ers path where you load up a team with talent.  We can do that with a good QB and a trade back, or two.  The flip side watching Mahomes struggle all year long with an average WR corp.  Their defense got them over the top.   

Now the eval for me is what is Drake Maye capable of.  He didn't impress me in either of the games I watched but I can also see his arm talent is really good.  Is it worth it to trade #1 to Wash and pick up both of their 2nd Rd picks and 2025  1st?   Then trade Fields?  I still have work to do on him but I've seen a few analysts say Maye is the best QB in this draft.  Others say he's too inconsistent. 

Why would Wash give up so much to move up 1 spot?  Simple.  Their owner Magic Johnson is a former NBA player and in the NBA elite stars are all you need.    2 elite players and you are deep in the playoffs year after year.  Find a 3rd wheel and you win the Championship.  If he holds that same philosophy for the NFL QB, and people calling Williams the next Mahomes influences that, then he'll pay.   I don't think he'll risk waiting until draft day either.  Given the Kingsbury signing and the way it happened they might as well have put up billboard on the side of the highway listing their intentions.  

If I'm Poles I'm waiting on that deal with Wash.   Then from #2 I sit likely until draft day and let all the other QB needy teams wonder what we're doing.  In the meantime they will fall in love with one of Daniels or Maye.  That could be New England getting nervous and we trade back to #3 as long as the Bears are content with Fields or whichever QB remains on the board.   

Do that and draft Maye or Daniels, trade Fields,  and you're still sitting with multiple 1st/2nd round picks in future drafts.   If Poles likes Fields he can trade back again from #3 and let the Giants or Atlanta draft the remaining top QB.  Or if the Raiders come in big, go back to 13.   We'd have so many extra draft picks in 2024, 2025, and maybe even 2026, that we could pull off one of Killa's elite drafts.   

Poles has to determine where the blue chip prospects end.  Is it after pick 8, 9, 10, 11?   If the Raiders come in with Maxx Crosby in the deal that offsets one of our blue chip needs at DE and it's easier to drop back to 13 while still grabbing one blue chipper at 9. 

 

 

I haven't seen you lately, hope everything is going well.  Always value your opinion. I think Poles does the deep dive and gets it right. Not sure what Crosby's contract is but would make us one of top 3 D's in the league and we would have the money to do it.

Poles said in an interview that he won't trade out of the blue chip players group, not sure how deep his board goes. Usually between 10 to 15 on the average.

[AZ54]

15 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I haven't seen you lately, hope everything is going well.  Always value your opinion. I think Poles does the deep dive and gets it right. Not sure what Crosby's contract is but would make us one of top 3 D's in the league and we would have the money to do it.

Poles said in an interview that he won't trade out of the blue chip players group, not sure how deep his board goes. Usually between 10 to 15 on the average.

I'm good, just been relaxing staying out of the noise and confusion while watching more videos of prospects.  Wanted to get my preferences in before things get cooking so I can see if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, or wrong as usual.  

[killakrzydav]

I gotta trust Poles on this one.  I like Daniels the  but Caleb seems to be better prepared for stardom.

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I'm good, just been relaxing staying out of the noise and confusion while watching more videos of prospects.  Wanted to get my preferences in before things get cooking so I can see if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, or wrong as usual.  

welcome back - and that's good. we can read articles and narratives, but there is no substitute for watching film and having our own thoughts. Respect for you.

[Bill]

Trade one to washing if they will.  Get a few extra picks and you still get to choose between Williams or Daniels.  Win Win in the crap shout of NFL drafting.