Bears trade for Ryan Bates

[adam]

They were trying to sign him last off-season but he went back to Buffalo.

For a 2024 5th rounder. Poles is going to have to trade down, down to 5 picks in the draft.

 

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Guard/Center- where does Poles see him playing? Is he moving Davis or Jenkins? 

[adam]

Looks like a Patrick replacement. Can play both Guard and Center.

[BearFan PHX]

I imagine right now he is a center for us, and Poles has a plan to pick up center in the draft, and then Bates competes with the rookie for center, and with the two guards too.

I think Davis will be better this year, and I hope that Jenkins won't be injured, but I want a 3rd OG to compete with them. If he displaces them that's great, if he is a quality backup for when either are faltering, that's cool too. And he's insurance if it takes a minute for a rookie center to get up to speed.

I talked about this exact move being a likely early one for Poles a few weeks ago. I didnt know the player, or that it would be a trade and not a free agent signing, but an obvious move is a decent but not break the bank  center who can compete at guard as a precursor to taking a center (and/or guard) in the draft.

Unless we also sign a guy like Cushenberry or anyone at the $10M+ level in free agency, I think you can take this as a strong signal that we are drafting a center this year. Maybe Sedrick Van Pran in the 3rd?

If we do sign a big name center, then this guy moves right to competing at guard. Today he is our starting center, by September (or earlier) who knows.

[Pixote]

7 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I imagine right now he is a center for us, and Poles has a plan to pick up center in the draft, and then Bates competes with the rookie for center, and with the two guards too.

I think Davis will be better this year, and I hope that Jenkins won't be injured, but I want a 3rd OG to compete with them. If he displaces them that's great, if he is a quality backup for when either are faltering, that's cool too. And he's insurance if it takes a minute for a rookie center to get up to speed.

I talked about this exact move being a likely early one for Poles a few weeks ago. I didnt know the player, or that it would be a trade and not a free agent signing, but an obvious move is a decent but not break the bank  center who can compete at guard as a precursor to taking a center (and/or guard) in the draft.

Unless we also sign a guy like Cushenberry or anyone at the $10M+ level in free agency, I think you can take this as a strong signal that we are drafting a center this year. Maybe Sedrick Van Pran in the 3rd?

If we do sign a big name center, then this guy moves right to competing at guard. Today he is our starting center, by September (or earlier) who knows.

I don't know the guy, but assuming he is a quality starter, it's good to have a solid backup for Center or Guard because we really don't have that on our current roster. So we still need, be it in the draft or FA, another quality option at the Center since it is almost guaranteed there will be injuries on the OL.

[BearFan PHX]

8 minutes ago, Pixote said:

I don't know the guy, but assuming he is a quality starter, it's good to have a solid backup for Center or Guard because we really don't have that on our current roster. So we still need, be it in the draft or FA, another quality option at the Center since it is almost guaranteed there will be injuries on the OL.

exactly. and also, since we have two potentially very good guards, both of whom missed time last season, you have a quality replacement if one falters, or if the new guy ascends. And it covers your bases for the draft so you can go BPA and not have to reach for a center if it doesnt fall the right way, and conversely so you dont have to rely on a rookie center to start right away if you do get one.

We will also have to sign a FS for the same reasons.

[Stinger226]

7 minutes ago, Pixote said:

I don't know the guy, but assuming he is a quality starter, it's good to have a solid backup for Center or Guard because we really don't have that on our current roster. So we still need, be it in the draft or FA, another quality option at the Center since it is almost guaranteed there will be injuries on the OL.

He's in the mix to start if Jenkins is injured or Davis stays bad. If he has played center before then he is our new center. I didn't know that.

[Mongo3451]

This one is odd...

[Pixote]

Just now, Mongo3451 said:

This one is odd...

Why is it odd?

[Stinger226]

1 minute ago, BearFan PHX said:

exactly. and also, since we have two potentially very good guards, both of whom missed time last season, you have a quality replacement if one falters, or if the new guy ascends. And it covers your bases for the draft so you can go BPA and not have to reach for a center if it doesnt fall the right way, and conversely so you dont have to rely on a rookie center to start right away if you do get one.

I agree , he's much better than Patrick or Whitehair was last year. I think we draft a center but it won't be in the first few rounds.

[BearFan PHX]

Poles tried to sign him in free agency in 2022 when he was a RFA but Buffalo matched our offer. That's a good sign.

[Pixote]

9 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Poles tried to sign him in free agency in 2022 when he was a RFA but Buffalo matched our offer. That's a good sign.

I always worry when we get someone cheap. Is he a bargain basement player or are we lucky and found a good player cheap?

From the article I linked below, it seems Poles got a bargain. Good cap numbers for the next two years. Very athletic and has experience at all OL positions, but best suited for guard or center.

Bears trade for Bills OL Ryan Bates 2 years after trying to sign him

(May need PHX to do his work-around for theathetic.com. LOL)

[Mongo3451]

14 minutes ago, Pixote said:

Why is it odd?

I just didn't see something like this on the horizon.  Teams usually don't trade for depth pieces.  I don't hate, but it threw me.  Then, why did the Bills choose to trade him now after they paid him the signing bonus last year?  It's something you don't often.

[BearFan PHX]

13 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I just didn't see something like this on the horizon.  Teams usually don't trade for depth pieces.  I don't hate, but it threw me.  Then, why did the Bills choose to trade him now after they paid him the signing bonus last year?  It's something you don't often.

they are having cap issues I guess in Buffalo.

This one guy fills several needs, and probably better value than in free agency, and he's young at 27.

First off, he allows us not to have to spend big money on a center. it's kind of a signal we are drafting a center. This allows us to trust that if a rookie isnt ready we arent screwed. We will probably sign a lame-ish free agent QB too for the same reason. Unless we trust Bagent, but Im getting off on a tanget.

And once he has served his purpose as a booster rocket to a rookie center, or a placeholder, then he becomes insurance with Jenkins and Davis, both who can be great, but you cant fully count on it seems.

Someone, I think it was Pix, said that he is going to be our Lucas Patrick. And that's almost as important as a nickel with our line it seems. It's someone that lets you potentially roll with Davis and Jenkins one more year, and provides a quality option at any interior position for injury.

I think in order to be able to go into the draft, you gotta sign these mid level free agents to fill any hoes you have so you dont have to reach if the draft falls one way or another. if we had no center, then wed be at the mercy of the draft ebbs and flows, and this way we dont need to sign a $10M+ free agent center, which would limit our ability to grab a JPJ or VanPran if they are available where we can get them. Or to ignore them if someone amazing falls.

If all goes well he will be our backup C/G, but he gives us a lot of flexibility in the next few months too.

We will sign a FS too.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I have nothing against Bates - he is a good depth olineman and might be a passable starter but I’m not giving up a pick for him. Period. Especially when Bears have so few picks already. 
 

Missing the 6th rounder for the worthless Feeney acquisition. Don’t get me wrong - 6th rounder probably won’t hit but I’d still keep it for depth. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

And I should be clear - Bates is a very good back up linemen so I will admit that and who knows maybe he ends up being a surprisingly good center. 
 

I suspect Bears know what they will ultimately get for Justin if they are dealing a 5th already. 

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

And I should be clear - Bates is a very good back up linemen so I will admit that and who knows maybe he ends up being a surprisingly good center. 
 

I suspect Bears know what they will ultimately get for Justin if they are dealing a 5th already. 

I suspect he will be the swing C/G, and thats a good point about already knowing what the Justin offers are, at least what the worst case scenario is, it could always go up if more teams jump in, but your point that they know it's a least X, and X allows them to spend this 5th rounder is smart.

[AZ54]

Bills are negative $40mil in cap space, the worst in the NFL.  That's after trading Bates.  They ate $4mil in dead money, Bears pay Bates $4m/yr ea 2024/25.   This is exactly what we've been paying Lucas Patrick the last 2 seasons.

Patrick PFF grade = 50

Bates PFF grade = 78

That's one heck of an upgrade.  Of course that's assuming he's our starting Center. Even as OG depth he's more than good enough to challenge Davis and at $4mil/yr this is a really good deal for us.  

Giving up a 5th Rd pick in a draft where we need a lot of picks to build depth screams trade down.  That is of course just my dumb opinion.  A team doesn't know for sure they can trade back from 9 until draft day, and really only when they are on the clock, so that means the most likely trade back is from #1.  Poles has a better feel for the level of interest and a sense of the value he might get now that the combine week is over.  I don't think that's imminent either but my spidey sense still says watch for Washington.    

As Phx said, Bates allows us room to draft a rookie and give him a year to learn, especially key if you want to move someone like Barton from OG to C.  This is supposed to be a really good IOL draft.  Don't get too fixated on the big names at Center.   We have a lot of needs and Poles is big on value.  Trading back and drafting Powers-Johnson in Rd 1 as many mocks have done doesn't scream value and now I'd guess that's completely off the table.  Van Pran's stock is falling after a poor combine, he's likely day 3 now.  There are better IOL options and from what I've read that goes well into Rd 3.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

27 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Bills are negative $40mil in cap space, the worst in the NFL.  That's after trading Bates.  They ate $4mil in dead money, Bears pay Bates $4m/yr ea 2024/25.   This is exactly what we've been paying Lucas Patrick the last 2 seasons.

Patrick PFF grade = 50

Bates PFF grade = 78

That's one heck of an upgrade.  Of course that's assuming he's our starting Center. Even as OG depth he's more than good enough to challenge Davis and at $4mil/yr this is a really good deal for us.  

Giving up a 5th Rd pick in a draft where we need a lot of picks to build depth screams trade down.  That is of course just my dumb opinion.  A team doesn't know for sure they can trade back from 9 until draft day, and really only when they are on the clock, so that means the most likely trade back is from #1.  Poles has a better feel for the level of interest and a sense of the value he might get now that the combine week is over.  I don't think that's imminent either but my spidey sense still says watch for Washington.    

As Phx said, Bates allows us room to draft a rookie and give him a year to learn, especially key if you want to move someone like Barton from OG to C.  This is supposed to be a really good IOL draft.  Don't get too fixated on the big names at Center.   We have a lot of needs and Poles is big on value.  Trading back and drafting Powers-Johnson in Rd 1 as many mocks have done doesn't scream value and now I'd guess that's completely off the table.  Van Pran's stock is falling after a poor combine, he's likely day 3 now.  There are better IOL options and from what I've read that goes well into Rd 3.  

I agree this is a good draft to find a center and doesn’t have to be super early - Bears just don’t have any picks. Bates is clearly an upgrade over the depth Bears had previously and is under a fair deal for 2 years. 
 

Now if I knew the Bears got a 2nd and 3rd for Fields I would be more happy with this. Get another 2nd for sliding down 5 spots or so if the top 3 wideouts and Alt are gone. 

[BearFan PHX]

28 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Bills are negative $40mil in cap space, the worst in the NFL.  That's after trading Bates.  They ate $4mil in dead money, Bears pay Bates $4m/yr ea 2024/25.   This is exactly what we've been paying Lucas Patrick the last 2 seasons.

Patrick PFF grade = 50

Bates PFF grade = 78

That's one heck of an upgrade.  Of course that's assuming he's our starting Center. Even as OG depth he's more than good enough to challenge Davis and at $4mil/yr this is a really good deal for us.  

Giving up a 5th Rd pick in a draft where we need a lot of picks to build depth screams trade down.  That is of course just my dumb opinion.  A team doesn't know for sure they can trade back from 9 until draft day, and really only when they are on the clock, so that means the most likely trade back is from #1.  Poles has a better feel for the level of interest and a sense of the value he might get now that the combine week is over.  I don't think that's imminent either but my spidey sense still says watch for Washington.    

As Phx said, Bates allows us room to draft a rookie and give him a year to learn, especially key if you want to move someone like Barton from OG to C.  This is supposed to be a really good IOL draft.  Don't get too fixated on the big names at Center.   We have a lot of needs and Poles is big on value.  Trading back and drafting Powers-Johnson in Rd 1 as many mocks have done doesn't scream value and now I'd guess that's completely off the table.  Van Pran's stock is falling after a poor combine, he's likely day 3 now.  There are better IOL options and from what I've read that goes well into Rd 3.  

I hate PFF, but in this case I agree with you (and them) about Bates.

I can't see us trading back from #1 unless it's to #2. I just watched some tape on Daniels and I see real problems. I don't have an opinion on Maye yet, and there are some other names to look at too, but more and more I think we will just take Caleb. But I absolutely see the problem that we are very short on picks. And you only get a haul out of pick 1 or 2. Trading 9 down to 20 you only get a 3rd rounder for the trouble. If youre all in on JPJ and hes your other first rounder, and you dont want to overdraft him, then OK, but I think we stay at #9 and take OT, WR, Bowers or a DL.

We are short on picks for sure. Worth it for Sweat, but we need more picks. Maybe we will spend next years 2nd to move our 3rd up into round 2. We still need too many things though.

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I agree this is a good draft to find a center and doesn’t have to be super early - Bears just don’t have any picks. Bates is clearly an upgrade over the depth Bears had previously and is under a fair deal for 2 years. 
 

Now if I knew the Bears got a 2nd and 3rd for Fields I would be more happy with this. Get another 2nd for sliding down 5 spots or so if the top 3 wideouts and Alt are gone. 

its a good thought, the Hill chart says sliding from 9 all the way to 20 gets you a mid 2nd, but going to 15 only gets you a high 3rd. You could get JPJ that way, but I think we really need weapons for the new QB too. Maybe a WR at 15 and a center but not JPJ in the 2nd?

The Justin picks are going to be really important, I hope we are able to get value for him, but if theres only one team interested, they could well wait until we just cut him if there are no other offers.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

4 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I hate PFF, but in this case I agree with you (and them) about Bates.

I can't see us trading back from #1 unless it's to #2. I just watched some tape on Daniels and I see real problems. I don't have an opinion on Maye yet, and there are some other names to look at too, but more and more I think we will just take Caleb. But I absolutely see the problem that we are very short on picks. And you only get a haul out of pick 1 or 2. Trading 9 down to 20 you only get a 3rd rounder for the trouble. If youre all in on JPJ and hes your other first rounder, and you dont want to overdraft him, then OK, but I think we stay at #9 and take OT, WR, Bowers or a DL.

We are short on picks for sure. Worth it for Sweat, but we need more picks. Maybe we will spend next years 2nd to move our 3rd up into round 2. We still need too many things though.

I think Bears might be able to move back from 9 to 15 and get a 2nd for their trouble - for sure if one of the final qbs is there (a bunch of teams will be looking to move up to get one and maybe a team needing defense moves up to get top db or something like that. 
 

Bears than grab next tier of wideouts and double dip on another later in draft (maybe Rice?) 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

2 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

its a good thought, the Hill chart says sliding from 9 all the way to 20 gets you a mid 2nd, but going to 15 only gets you a high 3rd. You could get JPJ that way, but I think we really need weapons for the new QB too. Maybe a WR at 15 and a center but not JPJ in the 2nd?

The Justin picks are going to be really important, I hope we are able to get value for him, but if theres only one team interested, they could well wait until we just cut him if there are no other offers.

If one of top 3 wideouts are there than I’m fine staying but Thomas of LSU looks real good consolation prize. 

[BearFan PHX]

21 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I think Bears might be able to move back from 9 to 15 and get a 2nd for their trouble - for sure if one of the final qbs is there (a bunch of teams will be looking to move up to get one and maybe a team needing defense moves up to get top db or something like that. 
 

Bears than grab next tier of wideouts and double dip on another later in draft (maybe Rice?) 

yes QBs do inflate the value of the trade downs if more than one team is hungry for sure.

lacking picks, I think we will grab a bunch of free agents. Not sure how many will be big splashes, but I see a handful of guys under say $7M a year making a lot of sense to fill those holes until next years draft. Maybe we are taking a WR at #9, so the rookie QB can get chemistry and we get a bunch of OL in free agency?

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Bills are negative $40mil in cap space, the worst in the NFL.  That's after trading Bates.  They ate $4mil in dead money, Bears pay Bates $4m/yr ea 2024/25.   This is exactly what we've been paying Lucas Patrick the last 2 seasons.

Patrick PFF grade = 50

Bates PFF grade = 78

That's one heck of an upgrade.  Of course that's assuming he's our starting Center. Even as OG depth he's more than good enough to challenge Davis and at $4mil/yr this is a really good deal for us.  

Giving up a 5th Rd pick in a draft where we need a lot of picks to build depth screams trade down.  That is of course just my dumb opinion.  A team doesn't know for sure they can trade back from 9 until draft day, and really only when they are on the clock, so that means the most likely trade back is from #1.  Poles has a better feel for the level of interest and a sense of the value he might get now that the combine week is over.  I don't think that's imminent either but my spidey sense still says watch for Washington.    

As Phx said, Bates allows us room to draft a rookie and give him a year to learn, especially key if you want to move someone like Barton from OG to C.  This is supposed to be a really good IOL draft.  Don't get too fixated on the big names at Center.   We have a lot of needs and Poles is big on value.  Trading back and drafting Powers-Johnson in Rd 1 as many mocks have done doesn't scream value and now I'd guess that's completely off the table.  Van Pran's stock is falling after a poor combine, he's likely day 3 now.  There are better IOL options and from what I've read that goes well into Rd 3.  

Bates backed up Mitch Morse considered one of the best centers in the league last year. At worst a quality backup with a chance to start at center. A 5 th rounder he would have gotten sits at least one year before he helps the team. This is a quality value move that is a better option than Patrick  ever was. He's going to add a rookie but not in the first round. I think this is a sign we will be moving out of our picks for more draft capital now that he only has 5 available right now. 2 1sts, 1 3rd, and 2 4 ths. No way he's going with that in the draft. 

Scenario :_ he moves 1 to 2 and gets  2 extra 2nd round picks and a future 2 nd.

Trades back from 2 to 8_with Atlanta and gets another 2 nd, 3 rd  and a future 1. 

If he drafts a QB , he could at 8. JJM, Nix or Penix could still be there. Anyone other than Williams will need a year to sit. I'm back on the Justin stays for another year and we draft a developmental QB kick. 

He's not trading Fields and he's not drafting Williams. A GM that wants to build thru the draft is not staying with only 5 picks. IMO this is the route Poles takes. I am predicting this, not trying to valid my opinion.  Ends up with 9 picks in this draft all 4 th round and higher. Adds 2 future picks also. He's trying to win this year and have a future QB to continue with.