What's next?

[adam]

The Bears are still weak at WR3, Edge2, and need at least another rotational piece at DT with the loss of Jones. For upgrades, Center is the most obvious spot not listed. So priority seems to be WR/Edge, then DT, then Center. 

If they stand pat, they have #9, #75, and #122 to address those spots. They have talked about a big drop off in talent in this draft (due to players staying in school due to NIL), so there are fewer mid level players available. I assume that is why Poles has not been shy to dump draft picks later in the draft. 

What would you rather see the Bears do (not what you think they will do) with the draft picks? Do you think it is better to get a no-brainer blue chipper at #9 OR trade back to #17 and pick up something around #48 (using JAX as an example). Would #17 and #48 be better than #9?

I think if Nabers, Odunze, Alt, or the top Edge is there at #9, I think you have to take them. If that group is gone, you definitely move back. I think Alt is the wild card. How do the Bears really feel about Braxton Jones?

Also, if you do move back to #17, and JPJ is there at Center, is he the pick? Would you pick him over Edge? Then try to address Edge at #48 or #75?

[killakrzydav]

CW drafts of course!!

[killakrzydav]

I would trade down to 20ish if I was POLES.  Try to get as many picks in the top 75-80.  There's still good depth and injured pieces that would've went high but Im not huge on selecting busted up people.  Now that I have started 7 round drafts, you will see Minter in my drafts though.

[AZ54]

What's next for me is making Wash bend over for the next 6 weeks until they've given me everything I want so they can draft the princess.  Williams and Maye both need plenty of work to become good starters.   I like Daniels but that narrow frame is a concern but he'll make a lot of splash plays.  I'm also not sure about his short game/reads.  

Williams reminds me too much of Fields bypassing the easy reads and forcing plays deep.  He's good at extending plays and his pocket presence is really good (sliding away from pressure) but when the pressure is close he just throws up prayers.  In that aspect he reminds me of Goff.  Unlike Goff he can throw from any arm angle (elasticity they like to call it).   When he scrambles he can't really run away from top defenders and so he'll have to adjust to that in the NFL, along with learning how to carry the football when he scrambles.  The release is quick and tight which is good, better than Maye.  

Maye has elite arm talent all over the field, similar to Justin Herbert.  He doesn't have as good pocket presence as Williams and that has to improve.  He's just as effective at scrambling as Williams although he is helped more by his size and strength breaking arm tackles but he's not as agile.  Maye can feather the ball into tight windows between zone coverage or just rip it 30yds on a rope.   He will stand in a tight pocket or step up and make big time throws.  He's not as good throwing on the run as Caleb and his release takes longer but at times he can flick the ball forward similar to what you see Josh Allen do.  He's going to need a lot of good coaching and some time but IMAO (absolute opinion) his physical tools are just as good as Williams although there are different strengths/weaknesses.   It depends on what  you want in your QB.   If you're ok with the tall stand in the pocket QB who can scramble at times or do you want the guy who can make any play a show. 

Oh and at the top of my list is the fact you won't have to deal with a primadonna and his father.   Yes sir, AZ is the old school lunch pail type.  I'll take the talented blue collar football players over the talented princesses all day long, plus my extra picks.  

 

[dawhizz]

15 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

What's next for me is making Wash bend over for the next 6 weeks until they've given me everything I want so they can draft the princess.  Williams and Maye both need plenty of work to become good starters.   I like Daniels but that narrow frame is a concern but he'll make a lot of splash plays.  I'm also not sure about his short game/reads.  

Williams reminds me too much of Fields bypassing the easy reads and forcing plays deep.  He's good at extending plays and his pocket presence is really good (sliding away from pressure) but when the pressure is close he just throws up prayers.  In that aspect he reminds me of Goff.  Unlike Goff he can throw from any arm angle (elasticity they like to call it).   When he scrambles he can't really run away from top defenders and so he'll have to adjust to that in the NFL, along with learning how to carry the football when he scrambles.  The release is quick and tight which is good, better than Maye.  

Maye has elite arm talent all over the field, similar to Justin Herbert.  He doesn't have as good pocket presence as Williams and that has to improve.  He's just as effective at scrambling as Williams although he is helped more by his size and strength breaking arm tackles but he's not as agile.  Maye can feather the ball into tight windows between zone coverage or just rip it 30yds on a rope.   He will stand in a tight pocket or step up and make big time throws.  He's not as good throwing on the run as Caleb and his release takes longer but at times he can flick the ball forward similar to what you see Josh Allen do.  He's going to need a lot of good coaching and some time but IMAO (absolute opinion) his physical tools are just as good as Williams although there are different strengths/weaknesses.   It depends on what  you want in your QB.   If you're ok with the tall stand in the pocket QB who can scramble at times or do you want the guy who can make any play a show. 

Oh and at the top of my list is the fact you won't have to deal with a primadonna and his father.   Yes sir, AZ is the old school lunch pail type.  I'll take the talented blue collar football players over the talented princesses all day long, plus my extra picks.  

 

Drake Maye:

-Threw nearly twice as many interceptions as Caleb this year.

-Lead a team that arguably fell apart even more than USC, losing four of their last six games. Only one of their opponents was ranked at the time (NC State was #22). Meanwhile, USC lost five of their last six that Caleb started, including against #21 Notre Dame, #14 Utah, #5 Washington, and #6 Oregon.

-Skipped out on his bowl game (like Caleb).

-Skipped out of combine workouts (like Caleb).  

Besides your interpretation of why Caleb's top 30 visit was moved and his father (which Caleb has no control over and it bears noting that Kliff Kingsbury said he saw Caleb's father maybe once while at USC), what makes Caleb a princess but not Drake? Is it really just the nails thing?

[AZ54]

53 minutes ago, dawhizz said:

Drake Maye:

-Threw nearly twice as many interceptions as Caleb this year.

-Lead a team that arguably fell apart even more than USC, losing four of their last six games. Only one of their opponents was ranked at the time (NC State was #22). Meanwhile, USC lost five of their last six that Caleb started, including against #21 Notre Dame, #14 Utah, #5 Washington, and #6 Oregon.

-Skipped out on his bowl game (like Caleb).

-Skipped out of combine workouts (like Caleb).  

Besides your interpretation of why Caleb's top 30 visit was moved and his father (which Caleb has no control over and it bears noting that Kliff Kingsbury said he saw Caleb's father maybe once while at USC), what makes Caleb a princess but not Drake? Is it really just the nails thing?

I don't recall saying anything about Caleb's top 30 visit, I don't even know if that's happened yet or not.   I don't even know if it was setup with Chicago or was that just an internet rumor spread by someone to make him look bad in Chicago? 

Painted fingernails, which isn't a big deal IMO because I have a grandson who paints his fingernails, but the need to make that "something" on the internet before a big game is more bothersome for me.  I don't have an issue getting in my grandson's face when he's focused on Tik Tok and "likes" so I don't have an issue saying the same about Caleb.   Attention seeking and the celebrity stuff when you haven't really done anything is a concern for me.  In this modern world that stuff is going to find you anyway, especially in the NFL, but what is it you're working for?   Then when things go wrong, and they will, how do you handle that publicity in a big city?  His interview at the combine didn't impress me at all.  Others thought he was great, I think he's being evasive when he says "it doesn't matter how I feel".   He skipped medicals at the combine because.... he's more "special" than everyone else?   Does he really want to just be one of the guys on the team?   One of the guys on the field during their testing?   

  I don't know how Caleb has no control over his father, that's interesting.  If my father went public saying stuff about me and what I want and I didn't like it I'd be telling him, and the public he doesn't speak for me. He has no agent so who do you think he's working with?   If he has no agent who has been doing the negotiating for him on his TV commercials?  If he's choosing to do all that by himself well then my question is  how much focus is he putting on learning the game?   

I don't like the fact Maye skipped the combine either.  If you want to be the first pick go compete!   I don't like some of the inaccurate throws he makes within games and I don't like that sometimes he doesn't seem to "see the field".  He also sometimes wanders in the pocket closer to pressure.  I wasn't hot on either of these guys because I don't see an Andrew Luck type worth #1 overall but now I'm stuck and gotta pick one.  The only thing I know is that out of almost every draft there is one long term starter.  I have no clue which one that will be.    

Interceptions:  What I've seen on numerous breakdowns of Caleb is that he tends to stay away from the compressed reads where the defense is in tight.  That's not necessarily a bad thing except at the same time he often ignores easy wide open underneath routes.  You can pick any of his highlight throws from scrambles and more often than not find an easy target open underneath early in the progression.  What I see on film is that if he can't make the read he wants he'll just scramble and try to make something on his own.  He's really good at that in college but he's not that fast at the NFL level so again we have to project how he'll adjust to being forced to stay in the pocket.   There are some times on film where he's composed in the pocket and goes through his progressions.  That's the same with Maye.  

You can see in the video I posted that Maye is making those tight seam throws.  He's not always perfectly accurate but he's making those reads.  Doing it with reps you will learn how to get better. 

Really both of these guys have several bad habits to break but both have starting NFL QB talent.  We have to figure out who is going to work harder to close the gap.  If we choose Caleb I'll be hopeful he's got the work ethic to do that and I certainly hope he proves me wrong.   If I had my way I wouldn't want to see any of these QBs starting in Wk 1.  They aren't ready.  

(FWIW I purposely picked a scouting report that highlighted all those negatives on Maye).  

[AZ54]

What luck.  I decide to go to PFN to play around with some mocks and trade back to #2.  I've been doing this off and on for weeks.  For the first time today I get this:  

[BearFan PHX]

10 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

What luck.  I decide to go to PFN to play around with some mocks and trade back to #2.  I've been doing this off and on for weeks.  For the first time today I get this:  

LOL thats crazy, and kind of awesome. I do not recommend that poles do this, because i dont think it'd work out, but damn if i KNEW it would end up like that, it'd be insane!

[Stinger226]

All the top QBs has some flaws. Even though Caleb has the best arm talent, it will take some time to adjust to the NFL. Like someone he has JF1 in him. Anyone thinking hes walking in and doing what Stroud did is dreaming. That just rarely happens. 

I am just throwing out what options we have and speculation on , does Poles surprise us? 80% Caleb but we don't know his evaluations. If you have several teams fighting for the first spot , the haul could be crazy.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

I'll take the talented blue collar football players over the talented princesses all day long, plus my extra picks.  

This.  ☝️??

Except for me is Daniels.  And at a distant second Nix. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

15 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

What luck.  I decide to go to PFN to play around with some mocks and trade back to #2.  I've been doing this off and on for weeks.  For the first time today I get this:  

REALLY Like the idea of trading out of 1 but you really think Wash would pass on getting Williams if they could?  In the grad scheme of your draft it wouldn’t make a whole lot of difference (I assume you go with Maye?) but whats important is you get players like MHJ and Alt at the top end of the draft. 

[adam]

29 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

REALLY Like the idea of trading out of 1 but you really think Wash would pass on getting Williams if they could?  In the grad scheme of your draft it wouldn’t make a whole lot of difference (I assume you go with Maye?) but whats important is you get players like MHJ and Alt at the top end of the draft. 

No way, Washington would not pass on Williams. That would be like two super unlikely things occurring, like a tsunami hitting a volcano erupting.

[BearFan PHX]

3 minutes ago, adam said:

No way, Washington would not pass on Williams. That would be like two super unlikely things occurring, like a tsunami hitting a volcano erupting.

I think due to various circumstances, the average opinion on Williams here on this board is lower than it truly is, and the distance between him and the other prospects is seen as closer than it really is too.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think due to various circumstances, the average opinion on Williams here on this board is lower than it truly is, and the distance between him and the other prospects is seen as closer than it really is too.

He's somewhere between generational and good. Poles gets to figure it out. If something pops up on Caleb does Poles still take him? I'm not sure.

[AZ54]

Maybe this is the guy we want?   Not the biggest arm but he's the most versatile when you add in his running ability.  He's already reading defenses well in SEC (make Jason proud!).   When I consider the ability to deal with adversity, ability to be team first he has it as you'll see in his interview.  

 

 

[AZ54]

6 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

REALLY Like the idea of trading out of 1 but you really think Wash would pass on getting Williams if they could?  In the grad scheme of your draft it wouldn’t make a whole lot of difference (I assume you go with Maye?) but whats important is you get players like MHJ and Alt at the top end of the draft. 

I don’t run their computers decisions.  

[AZ54]

5 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think due to various circumstances, the average opinion on Williams here on this board is lower than it truly is, and the distance between him and the other prospects is seen as closer than it really is too.

The average opinion here is that Williams is generational.   I think I’m the only curmudgeon.  

[BearFan PHX]

29 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

The average opinion here is that Williams is generational.   I think I’m the only curmudgeon.  

lol well I hate that word too, and the best I can say is that hes a great prospect with a generational ceiling. There is still every chance that Waldron could ruin him too. And Im not saying that because i have anything bad to say about Waldron, Im actually very optimistic about him, but I was also excited for Nagy, so I guess we just have to wait and see what actually happens.

But yeah, I think Williams has as good a chance as we've ever had to be that GOAT type QB.

[Mongo3451]

41 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

The average opinion here is that Williams is generational.   I think I’m the only curmudgeon.  

I've been pimping Maye for months.  I truly believe he is a bears QB.  Big, strong, good family, competitive, and cocky all Bear traits.  I like the extra picks of trading the one and getting the one I like.  If Williams is the guy, I trust Poles over any opinion I may have.  There is just something about Maye I can't fully explain.  He's my guy...

[50england50]

This is a big week for the Bears, I think USC has their pro day on 20/03/2023, and hopefully within the next fortnight they have the private workout completed. 
 

If Poles is who we feel he is, i.e., a competent GM this will be proven by who he takes as his high draft pick QB.

Fingers crossed that is Caleb Williams it changes the dynamic that QBs fail in Chicago. 
 

Hopefully one thing changes this year to what happened with Justin Fields, and that is if Caleb Williams or whomever we go with is the best player at QB, they start from day one. 

[Stinger226]

The draft is 40 days away, we need a few more bodies on the DL. We are out of money so Poles will have to play to get a Midland contract. 

People keep projecting we have a lot of money Left but those figures leave out rookie pool ( 2 top 10 ) and in season budget.. 

[Mongo3451]

For starters, I think Poles should draft for next year, due to us still being on the rise.

After QB, I believe EDGE is the most important for team building.  Winning teams generally need to have three guys that can get to the quarterback.  If Alt is available at 9 and our EDGE guy is gone, I take him.  Top ten picks absolutely need to be blue chip prospects at pillar positions.  If the guy we like is there, we should get him.

At nine, trade opportunities are likely going to be there.  If there are multiple prospects remaining and Poles believes he can trade back and get one, it's a no brainer.(Only blue chippers though). If he can finagle the blue chippers out of the first, we can crown him...

[Stinger226]

There is a general statement that 50% of the first round are busts. Not because they don't become good players but because they they don't live up to their draft position. Poles has did well with second picks but I guess he's only had one first round pick so far anyways. I think 15 is the magic spot but a few slip down lower. 9 to no lower than 15 will get him one of his guys. 9 could be the first Def player coming off his board. So that means it's likely to be an edge unless one of the top 3 WRs drop.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

For starters, I think Poles should draft for next year, due to us still being on the rise.

After QB, I believe EDGE is the most important for team building.  Winning teams generally need to have three guys that can get to the quarterback.  If Alt is available at 9 and our EDGE guy is gone, I take him.  Top ten picks absolutely need to be blue chip prospects at pillar positions.  If the guy we like is there, we should get him.

At nine, trade opportunities are likely going to be there.  If there are multiple prospects remaining and Poles believes he can trade back and get one, it's a no brainer.(Only blue chippers though). If he can finagle the blue chippers out of the first, we can crown him...

I also go back to - very good wideouts are found later in 1st round and even in 2nd or 3rd round from time to time. Elite edge rushers are very rarely found in 2nd round and later. Sweat is probably one of the rare examples of a high end edge rusher who was drafted in lower half of round 1 - Hunter who left Vikings is another.  Same with elite LT's - they tend to be high draft picks vs. not.   

So far that very reason - I could see Poles leaning to Turner/Alt (I don't see any scenario where Alt is there - but who knows) and than just taking whomever the best wideout is in rd 3 and figure he can try and address wideout again next year?  Now if Poles liked one of the other OT prospects (there are a bunch of non Alt guys) that are projected in the 10-20 range of the draft - he could move down and grab one of them and pick up a potential 2nd rounder (as long as he thought they were really good).  

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I also go back to - very good wideouts are found later in 1st round and even in 2nd or 3rd round from time to time. Elite edge rushers are very rarely found in 2nd round and later. Sweat is probably one of the rare examples of a high end edge rusher who was drafted in lower half of round 1 - Hunter who left Vikings is another.  Same with elite LT's - they tend to be high draft picks vs. not.   

So far that very reason - I could see Poles leaning to Turner/Alt (I don't see any scenario where Alt is there - but who knows) and than just taking whomever the best wideout is in rd 3 and figure he can try and address wideout again next year?  Now if Poles liked one of the other OT prospects (there are a bunch of non Alt guys) that are projected in the 10-20 range of the draft - he could move down and grab one of them and pick up a potential 2nd rounder (as long as he thought they were really good).  

IMO I think Braxton has progressed enough where they don't take Alt at 9. Alt should be a all pro some day but drafting one of the 3 top WRs if there, we take them. If the best edge is there, we take him. I think those are our only two options if we stay at 9. If we move down, I think JPJ comes into play if we move pass 15. 

Who has the biggest effect on our team from day one? I think it's WR or Edge.