What's next?

[BearFan PHX]

22 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Maybe this is the guy we want?   Not the biggest arm but he's the most versatile when you add in his running ability.  He's already reading defenses well in SEC (make Jason proud!).   When I consider the ability to deal with adversity, ability to be team first he has it as you'll see in his interview. 

I think Daniels or Penix have the biggest arm in the draft. Daniels throws a really amazing deep ball! Better than Williams for sure.

He also seems to make great presnap reads, but you know my claim that he never makes any post snap reads - locks onto his #1 WR, either throws it to him (in rhythm and with great placement!) or takes off running. I have yet to see him make a second read or look off a safety. Im sure hes done it EVER, but I haven't seen it yet. If anyone has a game where he does it a lot Id be very thankful for the recommendation and watch it.

If it wasnt for this one flaw, Id be big into Daniels.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

19 hours ago, AZ54 said:

The average opinion here is that Williams is generational.   I think I’m the only curmudgeon.  

I may not be a curmudgeon but I'm nowhere convinced he's "generational".  

[Stinger226]

17 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I may not be a curmudgeon but I'm nowhere convinced he's "generational".  

It's just speculation, the best QB in the league was never considered generational. It's just labels analysists  place on prospects. I'm not sure people said that about Joe Burrows either. I think they see high ceilings but obviously it's a lot of things that come into play to be that.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I may not be a curmudgeon but I'm nowhere convinced he's "generational".  

he just got a lot of polish and potential. in the NFL he isn't anything at all yet for sure.

But he does more mental quarterbacking than you usually see in guys coming out of college. And that's rare like once in a decade type.

And some guys who arent there grow in the NFL and become that. And some guys bust.

But he's a pretty good bet based on what you can see of him. Theres a reason they are using that word, even though it's too much I agree.

[Mongo3451]

On 3/17/2024 at 5:00 PM, dawhizz said:

what makes Caleb a princess but not Drake? Is it really just the nails thing?

Just for fun...  We all need to remember Joe Namath had the same spirit...

[Stinger226]

4 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Just for fun...  We all need to remember Joe Namath had the same spirit...

Does that outfit come in blue? Asking for a friend.

[BearFan PHX]

they paid him a lot of money for a fashion shoot and gave him clothes to wear. he doesnt just walk around like that. If GQ tells you to do something for a cover, a lot of stars would do it.

But even if he dresses like a woman, I dont care . I love Dennis Rodman too. He just needs to be a great QB. Thats all that matters.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

they paid him a lot of money for a fashion shoot and gave him clothes to wear. he doesnt just walk around like that. If GQ tells you to do something for a cover, a lot of stars would do it.

But even if he dresses like a woman, I dont care . I love Dennis Rodman too. He just needs to be a great QB. That's all that matters. 

If he is Aaron Rodgers 2.0 , I don't care about personal choices. Rodgers turned out to be a little odd, and was King for how many years. 

[Mongo3451]

10 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think Daniels or Penix have the biggest arm in the draft. Daniels throws a really amazing deep ball! Better than Williams for sure.

Maye has the most elite arm in this class. (Josh Allen Jr). He threw a 45 yard TD jumping backwards to get it off.  .  His weakness is like most gifted guys, lazy footwork.

[BearFan PHX]

8 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Maye has the most elite arm in this class. (Josh Allen Jr). He threw a 45 yard TD jumping backwards to get it off.  .  His weakness is like most gifted guys, lazy footwork.

Based on this comment, I went searching. I had thought that Daniels had the strongest arm based on some nice passes I'd seen, but i totally admit I hadn't really done any kind of formal comparison, or counting yards on long throws etc.

I still think Daniels may have the most accurate arm, but I did find this, which bolsters what you're saying.

They rate the QBs on different attributes, and give a number rating to arm strength. I dont know who they are, it was just the first thing I found on google. Apparently they do next gen stats like PFF. Not saying their product is any better than PFF, just that they are a custom stat group.

They claim that Joe Milton has the strongest arm of the class - which I believe having seen his insane throws at the combine. You were there, was it nuts?

Anyway they give Milton an 8 score for arm strength.

They give Maye and Williams each a 7, and Daniels a 6.

So I just wanted to thank you for the factual rebuttal, and share what I found so far about it.

https://www.the33rdteam.com/2024-nfl-draft-ranking-7-strongest-arms-in-this-years-qb-class/

[BearFan PHX]

I gotta say when people just say "soandso says [QB] is good/bad" it just goes right past me, but when someone makes a claim about a specific part of a players game or skill set, and I havent looked closely at that, it often makes me go searching to learn more, and sometimes change my mind too.

[Mongo3451]

6 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

You were there, was it nuts?

It was the loudest roar of the day.  Milton wasn't great on the timing throws, but the bazooka was real.  He is the equivalent of the guy that could jump out of the pool.

Go back and look at the video of Maye hitting the crossbar of the goal from 80 yards.  That has to theoretically travel 85-90 yards.  He can also throw with touch and left handed.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

It was the loudest roar of the day.  Milton wasn't great on the timing throws, but the bazooka was real.  He is the equivalent of the guy that could jump out of the pool.

well said. I think a lot of the analysis that goes on is based on physical skills, and I think I tend to (also) look for being a football player.

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

Go back and look at the video of Maye hitting the crossbar of the goal from 80 yards.  That has to theoretically travel 85-90 yards.  He can also throw with touch and left handed.

Yeah I saw that! Caleb did it too right next to him. They are both great.

I have Caleb ahead because of his processing, but Maye is definitely my #2.

I have some negatives on Maye too, but I'm not looking to crap on him. He could well have a good NFL career. But to me, Williams is in a tier above Maye.

[Mongo3451]

41 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

But to me, Williams is in a tier above Maye.

Agreed, on the gifted part. And I truly believe the kid loves football.  I just hope he's not the dubs he's being portrayed to be.

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Agreed, on the gifted part. And I truly believe the kid loves football.  I just hope he's not the dubs he's being portrayed to be.

for sure. He's clearly not like Justin in that way, and Justin was an awesome, humble, one of the guys teammate.

I suspect Williams to be more like Jordan, Brady, Rodgers etc - arrogant, overcompetitive, brutal in the pursuit of winning. ANd if he is a GOAT that will be fantastic. But if he is an average QB that kind of attitude will wear thin for sure. But then again if we thought he was gonna be average, we wouldnt be picking him.

I hope he grows into his potential, and if he is a Los Angeles jerk of a star, I'll enjoy the Lombardi trophies LOL

[Stinger226]

If Poles doesn't take Williams, it's not because he doesn't have talent. He found something in his character that could be disrupted to the team.

[BearFan PHX]

16 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

If Poles doesn't take Williams, it's not because he doesn't have talent. He found something in his character that could be disrupted to the team.

I agree with this.

I also think there is some chance that Williams really doesnt want to go to Chicago, but doesnt want to be hated, so he quietly tells Poles this, and Poles wouldnt want it to be known that he wasnt powerful enough to force Williams to play, so he'd keep it a secret too. If we dont draft him, Im going to wonder if that was it as well.

And I suppose you could count that as something in his character, so it also agrees with what you said. But for example, I never thought anything was wrong with Eli's character, but he did the same thing, and in retrospect, it turns out to have been the right move for him.

[Stinger226]

1 minute ago, BearFan PHX said:

I agree with this.

I also think there is some chance that Williams really doesnt want to go to Chicago, but doesnt want to be hated, so he quietly tells Poles this, and Poles wouldnt want it to be known that he wasnt powerful enough to force Williams to play, so he'd keep it a secret too. If we dont draft him, Im going to wonder if that was it as well.

And I suppose you could count that as something in his character, so it also agrees with what you said. But for example, I never thought anything was wrong with Eli's character, but he did the same thing, and in retrospect, it turns out to have been the right move for him.

Players always are instructed to not say negative things when doing press conferences to whoever fan base they talk to. If I was in his position and had the chance to go home, common sense tells me that's my first choice. He's one spot away. In the end it probably doesn't matter but the problem doesn't become a problem until it does. If he pulls a last minute coup to get to Washington, it's to late. 

Having a better built roster helps our cause plus Poles  and Flus are player friendly  guys so I doubt it happens. 

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I never thought anything was wrong with Eli's character, but he did the same thing, and in retrospect, it turns out to have been the right move for him.

Elway did the same thing with the Colts.  The reasons for both demands were valid.  When Bob Irsay owned the Colts, they were known as a terrible organization.  The owner of the chargers had been terrible for a long time as well. 

A Williams demand wouldn't be close.  This team is greatly improved, on paper, and we should've won ten games last year.

Edited March 20 by Mongo3451
Elway

[BearFan PHX]

20 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

A Williams demand wouldn't be close.  This team is greatly improved, on paper, and we should've won ten games last year.

Yeah it would be weird for Williams to not want to come here now with this roster and offensive coaching staff. Neither of which was in place when that rumor came out.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I agree with this.

I also think there is some chance that Williams really doesnt want to go to Chicago, but doesnt want to be hated, so he quietly tells Poles this, and Poles wouldnt want it to be known that he wasnt powerful enough to force Williams to play, so he'd keep it a secret too. If we dont draft him, Im going to wonder if that was it as well.

And I suppose you could count that as something in his character, so it also agrees with what you said. But for example, I never thought anything was wrong with Eli's character, but he did the same thing, and in retrospect, it turns out to have been the right move for him.

Trading Fields took away any leverage the Bears had. I am not saying this because I want Fields, only because I want the Bears to hold as much power possible. Knowing the Bears are now at his will, he can make demands since they have no one capable to give them a chance at competing this season.  Rumor has it he wants to own the team, well he does now. The Bears can draft a lesser talent but then they will have more bumps in the road with a team nearly loaded. It is just a thought, but I don't see him doing this and I hope he realizes the potential playing in Chicago and sets a goal to be the next Bear statue placed near the entrance.

[BearFan PHX]

9 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Trading Fields took away any leverage the Bears had. I am not saying this because I want Fields, only because I want the Bears to hold as much power possible. Knowing the Bears are now at his will, he can make demands since they have no one capable to give them a chance at competing this season.  Rumor has it he wants to own the team, well he does now. The Bears can draft a lesser talent but then they will have more bumps in the road with a team nearly loaded. It is a though, but I don't see him doing this and I hope he realizes the potential playing in Chicago and sets a goal to be the next Bear statue placed near the entrance.

Absolutely. I am not predicting anything other than that Caleb is the first pick of the draft and goes to Chicago.

I'm just saying, for the sake of discussion, there is some tiny percentage of a scenario where Poles knows Williams won't play for us, and will trade down or take a different QB at #1. And we would never know that was why it happened.

WHEN Poles takes Williams with #1, then this silly scenario will cease to exist. but IF we trade out of #1 or don't take Williams, then this is what i'm going to believe is the reason why.

But it's silly. Caleb will be a Bear, and Tyler Scott is gonna get paid in a bidding war between Caleb and Keenan LOL

I completely agree with you there is no way the Bears would choose to skip over Caleb, even for a haul, if he is available to them.

[Mongo3451]

18 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Trading Fields took away any leverage the Bears had.

I look at it like we told the whole world we are drafting a QB, which makes the pick more valuable.  Suitors know that they are really going to have to pony up if they want Caleb.  And when we really look at it, how much better is he really?  If he's in a league of his own, the point is moot, cause you didn't trade that.  If Poles sees it at close and someone calls strongly, we make bank on picks.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

2 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I look at it like we told the whole world we are drafting a QB, which makes the pick more valuable.  Suitors know that they are really going to have to pony up if they want Caleb.  And when we really look at it, how much better is he really?  If he's in a league of his own, the point is moot, cause you didn't trade that.  If Poles sees it at close and someone calls strongly, we make bank on picks.

That holds true until there is a leak he really doesn't want to play for the Bears. He holds all the power even though the Bears hold the chips to trade the rights to any team.

[Stinger226]

15 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

That holds true until there is a leak he really doesn't want to play for the Bears. He holds all the power even though the Bears hold the chips to trade the rights to any team.

I think the only reason he doesn't come here has to do him wanting to be treated special. Saying the rookie pay scale is unfair and thinking he may be able to change it because he is so good. Saying he is better than Patrick Mahomes is another red flag. Who would say that? Most rumors probably aren't true but things had to be  said for any of them to gain that much talk.