Jayden Daniels?

[Mongo3451]

8 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Does that tell us anything?

Unfortunately, no.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

17 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I'm so far off the consensus mock because I'm still the only fan here who will trade back to #2 and take Daniels and the picks. 

Just so you know you're not alone, I stand with you in solidarity. I'm all in on the idea of trading the #1 but not as sure on who the QB should be.  Daniels is definitely a consideration.  

FWIW in friends that I talk with who know football (not necessarily Bears football) seem to all agree that Williams isn't the guy.  So there are a few still out there.  

[Mongo3451]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Just so you know you're not alone, I stand with you in solidarity. I'm all in on the idea of trading the #1 but not as sure on who the QB should be.  Daniels is definitely a consideration.  

If we were to trade the one, I'm taking Maye.  Best upside of ANY player in the draft.  His floor isn't there yet though.  We're drafting for next year, so he would have a year to take his lumps.

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

If we were to trade the one, I'm taking Maye.  Best upside of ANY player in the draft.  His floor isn't there yet though.  We're drafting for next year, so he would have a year to take his lumps.

His arm is crazy good but I don’t like his pocket presence.  I think he needs a full year to work on that stuff before being thrown into the fire.  If he can get his feet to calm down that should lead to less missed easy passes.  

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

His arm is crazy good but I don’t like his pocket presence.  I think he needs a full year to work on that stuff before being thrown into the fire.  If he can get his feet to calm down that should lead to less missed easy passes.  

Other than Williams, I think they all need a year to grow before they should start. I would love to get a haul and draft a QB but I truly think Williams is special. Up in the air on  the intangibles but if Poles is good with him , I'm all in. 

Poles could completely surprise us, no one has guessed what he's been doing in his last two drafts but some times the simplest answer is the answer.

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

His arm is crazy good but I don’t like his pocket presence.  I think he needs a full year to work on that stuff before being thrown into the fire.  If he can get his feet to calm down that should lead to less missed easy passes.  

That's exactly what I was eluding to...

[BearFan PHX]

I'm not sure what exactly Williams' intangibles really are, too.

I have seen all the press about WIlliams being gay or trans or whatever, and I think it is possible he is, and it is possible he is trolling people for saying that, wearing the pink nails and phone, waving his hand in an effeminate manner. I think he might just well be an overcompetitive jerk putting his middle finger up to those calling him that. It reminds me of Jim McMahon wearing his headbands taking ont he league commissioner.

I think it is clear Caleb is never going to be a humble quiet teammate. He is not going to have options as a loveable and loyal backup if things go south. he is an in your face competitor, who has so far accomplished nothing in the NFL, but comes in postured to be an arrogant and fiery champion. If he falls he will fall hard in public opinion, but if he succeeds, he seems to have the heart of a real champion.

We may remember when we had McMahon, Tomczak and a rookie Harbaugh on our team. Tomczak was licking McMahons feet in the press, while Harbaugh said "Im here to compete to be the starter" and of course his competitive spirit is now legendary, having won championships coaching at every level, one of the best and top coaches of all time by the numbers.

We might also remember later when McMahon was a Packer, Tomczak signalling the plays over to him so the GB defense could destroy Harbaugh during a preseason game.

So of the three, Id take the personality of McMahon or Harbaugh as a team leader, and never a snitchy whiny loser like Tomczak.

I think of Jordan, Brady, Muhammad Ali, Deion Sanders, Mike Tyson, Kobe Bryant and others as a blueprint for this kind of leader. Of course there are other successful kinds too, Montana comes to mind.

But humility is not necessarily a virtue for a leader. And on a team with Eberflus as head coach, I dont mind at all if that fire comes from our QB. I wont mind if he is sometimes insubordinate, as long as his gambits work.

I think of that MNF football game in the early part of the 1985 season against the Vikings, where McMahon had been sick and in the hospital, but got out in time to play, standing next to Ditka on the sidelines with his helmet on, begging to play, while Ditka fumed and told him he was too sick to play, and the Vikings built a three score lead on us.

Ditka lost his cool, and put McMahon in angrily. The first play was a screen pass to Walter. Gault runs a go route on that left side to clear out the defense for Wlater to work underneath. There are no WR options on this play. The ball goes to Walter or no one. McMahon, stepped back and threw an 80 yard bomb for a touch down to Gault who was surprised to see the ball. Even he didnt know McMahon would do this.

That moment was the spark that made the 85 Bears into the cocky jerks that scared the rest of the league into submission. McMahon didnt have Ditkas blessing to do that - it wasnt humble it was outright insubordination, but it worked and a competitor become a champion.

There are similar stories about Lawrence Taylor freelancing too. And Dtika and Parcells are two of the hottest tempered disciplinarians in NFL history.

Caleb is all in, he will be "immortal" or bust. he will be arrogant, and at times perhaps insubordinate. But he will carry this team, kicking and screaming if necessary, to victories. I can imagine him getting pissed at early prevent defenses for example. And GOOD. This team needs leadership.

So If Caleb is trolling with his pink nails, or really is about to be the first openly gay QB, etiehr way if he is motivated to be legendary, then that chip on his shoulder is a beautiful thing.

The concern I guess is that he will take a knee and become an activist / victim. And I dont care what the cause, whether it be BLM, or Veterans Health care or whatever cause whoever is reading this thinks is very good and important, I think that kind of distractions hurt a teams Super Bowl chances, even if they do help society at large.

But everything I see from Caleb paints the opposite picture. He may be gay, and even speak about it in the press, but I see him as fighting for greatness. So it is less important to me what motivates him, than that he is so highly motivated.

I love Dennis Rodman. His style certainly allowed him a competitive advantage over players who's skin he got under. Same with McMahon, Jordan - you know the list.

So I hope he continues to be flamboyant and trollish. I dont even care if he is that black hatted wrestling type villian. As long as he is kicking people's asses, Im here for it.

So when we evaluate his quirks - let's not assume that being arrogant, lacking humility, being edgy or abrasive is always a bad thing. Let's instead take it in the context of success and dominance on the football field.

The 85 Bears defense used to bark at the LOS. That's pretty obnoxious, egotistical and disrespectful. And it scared the hell out of grown men. Because they backed it up. So the question is, could they have been as violent, highly motivated and intimidating if they had not included emotion in their game?

I cant wait to tell Packers fans "you dont like it? Beat us then and shut us up"

Didnt Rodgers do that to us? Isnt it our turn?

[Mongo3451]

Great write up PHX.  Seriously, wow!  Caleb is unabashedly himself.  That in itself is endearing to me.  I recall a story where Larry Bird hit a game winning three pointer while KC Jones was calling a timeout.  In the huddle, KC was drawing up a play and Bird said, "just get me ball and I'm hitting it from the same spot." Then, went out and told the defense what he was going to do and did it.  That's supreme confidence.  If that's what Caleb has, don't F with it.

[AZ54]

5 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I'm not sure what exactly Williams' intangibles really are, too.

I have seen all the press about WIlliams being gay or trans or whatever, and I think it is possible he is, and it is possible he is trolling people for saying that, wearing the pink nails and phone, waving his hand in an effeminate manner. I think he might just well be an overcompetitive jerk putting his middle finger up to those calling him that. It reminds me of Jim McMahon wearing his headbands taking ont he league commissioner.

I think it is clear Caleb is never going to be a humble quiet teammate. He is not going to have options as a loveable and loyal backup if things go south. he is an in your face competitor, who has so far accomplished nothing in the NFL, but comes in postured to be an arrogant and fiery champion. If he falls he will fall hard in public opinion, but if he succeeds, he seems to have the heart of a real champion.

We may remember when we had McMahon, Tomczak and a rookie Harbaugh on our team. Tomczak was licking McMahons feet in the press, while Harbaugh said "Im here to compete to be the starter" and of course his competitive spirit is now legendary, having won championships coaching at every level, one of the best and top coaches of all time by the numbers.

We might also remember later when McMahon was a Packer, Tomczak signalling the plays over to him so the GB defense could destroy Harbaugh during a preseason game.

So of the three, Id take the personality of McMahon or Harbaugh as a team leader, and never a snitchy whiny loser like Tomczak.

I think of Jordan, Brady, Muhammad Ali, Deion Sanders, Mike Tyson, Kobe Bryant and others as a blueprint for this kind of leader. Of course there are other successful kinds too, Montana comes to mind.

But humility is not necessarily a virtue for a leader. And on a team with Eberflus as head coach, I dont mind at all if that fire comes from our QB. I wont mind if he is sometimes insubordinate, as long as his gambits work.

I think of that MNF football game in the early part of the 1985 season against the Vikings, where McMahon had been sick and in the hospital, but got out in time to play, standing next to Ditka on the sidelines with his helmet on, begging to play, while Ditka fumed and told him he was too sick to play, and the Vikings built a three score lead on us.

Ditka lost his cool, and put McMahon in angrily. The first play was a screen pass to Walter. Gault runs a go route on that left side to clear out the defense for Wlater to work underneath. There are no WR options on this play. The ball goes to Walter or no one. McMahon, stepped back and threw an 80 yard bomb for a touch down to Gault who was surprised to see the ball. Even he didnt know McMahon would do this.

That moment was the spark that made the 85 Bears into the cocky jerks that scared the rest of the league into submission. McMahon didnt have Ditkas blessing to do that - it wasnt humble it was outright insubordination, but it worked and a competitor become a champion.

There are similar stories about Lawrence Taylor freelancing too. And Dtika and Parcells are two of the hottest tempered disciplinarians in NFL history.

Caleb is all in, he will be "immortal" or bust. he will be arrogant, and at times perhaps insubordinate. But he will carry this team, kicking and screaming if necessary, to victories. I can imagine him getting pissed at early prevent defenses for example. And GOOD. This team needs leadership.

So If Caleb is trolling with his pink nails, or really is about to be the first openly gay QB, etiehr way if he is motivated to be legendary, then that chip on his shoulder is a beautiful thing.

The concern I guess is that he will take a knee and become an activist / victim. And I dont care what the cause, whether it be BLM, or Veterans Health care or whatever cause whoever is reading this thinks is very good and important, I think that kind of distractions hurt a teams Super Bowl chances, even if they do help society at large.

But everything I see from Caleb paints the opposite picture. He may be gay, and even speak about it in the press, but I see him as fighting for greatness. So it is less important to me what motivates him, than that he is so highly motivated.

I love Dennis Rodman. His style certainly allowed him a competitive advantage over players who's skin he got under. Same with McMahon, Jordan - you know the list.

So I hope he continues to be flamboyant and trollish. I dont even care if he is that black hatted wrestling type villian. As long as he is kicking people's asses, Im here for it.

So when we evaluate his quirks - let's not assume that being arrogant, lacking humility, being edgy or abrasive is always a bad thing. Let's instead take it in the context of success and dominance on the football field.

The 85 Bears defense used to bark at the LOS. That's pretty obnoxious, egotistical and disrespectful. And it scared the hell out of grown men. Because they backed it up. So the question is, could they have been as violent, highly motivated and intimidating if they had not included emotion in their game?

I cant wait to tell Packers fans "you dont like it? Beat us then and shut us up"

Didnt Rodgers do that to us? Isnt it our turn?

Have you ever heard or seen Caleb saying he'd love to play for the Bears?  All I've ever heard from him is that he'd love to be the #1 pick.  For all the social media posts and interviews he does I'm still waiting for that.  

[BearFan PHX]

10 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Have you ever heard or seen Caleb saying he'd love to play for the Bears?  All I've ever heard from him is that he'd love to be the #1 pick.  For all the social media posts and interviews he does I'm still waiting for that.  

Fair point.

I think he's just waiting until it's official. I also think the league has asked them not to announce if it IS a done deal so the possible drama of the draft broadcast isn't affected. I mean, it's dumb, but it is what it is.

To your point though, i have no doubt that if another team took him, he wouldn't be crying that it wasn't the Bears. I think he just wants to get in the league and kick ass. For whoever. Just like I'm sure Justin isn't missing Chicago, and is thinking about how he can excel in Pittsburgh.

And it seems like the situation here for Williams is about as good as you could ever expect for a first pick rookie, so I'll bet he is enthused.

When he is drafted I expect he will say the right things about Butkis and Halas and Payton and Deep Dish Pizza LOL

But you're probably right at the core of it, he wants to win for himself. And he must know that means leading a team, so it'll end up the same either way?

 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

Great write up PHX.  Seriously, wow!  Caleb is unabashedly himself.  That in itself is endearing to me.  I recall a story where Larry Bird hit a game winning three pointer while KC Jones was calling a timeout.  In the huddle, KC was drawing up a play and Bird said, "just get me ball and I'm hitting it from the same spot." Then, went out and told the defense what he was going to do and did it.  That's supreme confidence.  If that's what Caleb has, don't F with it.

Thank you!

Yeah. I think he is gonna be insanely competitive.

I predict somewhere in his first 6 games a 3 or 4 interception game as his ego tempts him to thread the needle too tightly. But i also think that will just make him work harder until he can dominate. I dont see him as the kind the folds. I dont think the crying happens while there is still game time to play. Exhausted after giving it all and losing is different than pouting or quitting. I think hes gonna be a SOB, and hes gonna be OUR SOB.

[Stinger226]

5 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Have you ever heard or seen Caleb saying he'd love to play for the Bears?  All I've ever heard from him is that he'd love to be the #1 pick.  For all the social media posts and interviews he does I'm still waiting for that.  

If I was him, and was a Redskins fan growing up that would be my choice. I think Poles, Flus, team leaders are selling the Bears to him. As far as I know he's not taking any other visits which means he's buying into the culture here.

His ego tells him he wants to be the first pick so that means he has to come here. If there's any negative input into the process Poles will notice it and pick someone else but seems to be heading to be a Bear.

[Stinger226]

5 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Thank you!

Yeah. I think he is gonna be insanely competitive.

I predict somewhere in his first 6 games a 3 or 4 interception game as his ego tempts him to thread the needle too tightly. But i also think that will just make him work harder until he can dominate. I dont see him as the kind the folds. I dont think the crying happens while there is still game time to play. Exhausted after giving it all and losing is different than pouting or quitting. I think hes gonna be a SOB, and hes gonna be OUR SOB.

I think if he accepts the coaching and gets above average play from teammates, no reason to think he can't have the best year as a rookie ever. I think that was Lucks first year.

54.1%-4374 yards-23-18. Yards only

CJ Stroud 63%-4108-23-5

Somewhere between there would be great.

[BearFan PHX]

Id settle for 3500 yards if his completion percentage is above 57% ish

I know he is going to throw interceptions until he learns the NFL speed and windows, but we should see a lot of flashes of greatness that tell us we got the right guy.