USC pro day

[Mongo3451]

27 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

?

[50england50]

Here is another video showing Caleb’s throws during his pro day.

 

https://youtu.be/cv7VT5Q0Zhk?si=M4Nj96V4yTLdKl0Z

 

 

 

[dawhizz]

It’s behind a paywall, but Brad Biggs has a piece in the Tribune about the Bears’ Caleb visit this week. They met with Caleb along with some of his teammates on Monday at a local restaurant to see how he interacted with them and then spent half a day Tuesday with him at the football facility watching film, talking football, and having him do whiteboard work to see how he processes and thinks. 

[BearFan PHX]

here's a link to get around the paywall.

All you ever have to do it put

archive.is

in front of the www part for any protected article

https://archive.is/www.chicagotribune.com/2024/03/20/chicago-bears-caleb-williams-pro-day/

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

here's a link to get around the paywall.

All you ever have to do it put

archive.is

in front of the www part for any protected article

https://archive.is/www.chicagotribune.com/2024/03/20/chicago-bears-caleb-williams-pro-day/

I have a subscription to the Tribune, Athletic for Bears stories.

[Stinger226]

As much as I would love more draft picks and no problem with another QB , we simply have to take Caleb and hope no surprises pop up.

[AZ54]

Does anyone know a body language expert?   Those hugs from Poles and especially with Eberflus seemed to me highly indifferent.  I'm a little odd in that I look for things like smiles and eye contact, even if brief, to tell if someone is being genuine.  I see Poles looking away and maybe just being "professional".  Eberflus OTOH didn't look happy at all, more mechanical in his motions.  Usually after that I'd expect very brief "something" of an interaction yet Caleb moved on quickly and so did the Bears.   

Maybe to Phx's point they are just going through a formality with the hugs and not trying to show any cards.  I also suspect Phx can vouch there are people in business that can smile and look you in the eye while stabbing you in the back.   Probably we've all worked with someone like that one time or another.  So maybe this is nothing but people getting ready to go their separate ways.      

Then later in his interview with Colin Cowherd you still do not see any smile from Williams during any discussion of Chicago.  At the 1min mark Cowherd says hey Chicago has some dudes what's it going to be like working with Keenan Allen.  Williams first part of the response is IMO somewhat scripted (blessed to be #1 overall pick) but there's no smile when talking about Keenan until he begins discussing their friendship going back for years.  At that time I feel like we're seeing the real Caleb.   Then go to the 5min mark when Cowherd asks him again about going to Chicago where the fans "care".   While he still asking the question Caleb rolls his eyes, then has to bite his lip twice before answering what his vision of playing in Chicago will be like.  Again no smiles no immediate reaction just thought out words like he's reading a script.   

Regardless of the talent assessment it is still my opinion this guy does not want to play in Chicago... at this point in time.  I'm not sure we want him either.  

 

 

 

[BearFan PHX]

25 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Does anyone know a body language expert?   Those hugs from Poles and especially with Eberflus seemed to me highly indifferent.  I'm a little odd in that I look for things like smiles and eye contact, even if brief, to tell if someone is being genuine.  I see Poles looking away and maybe just being "professional".  Eberflus OTOH didn't look happy at all, more mechanical in his motions.  Usually after that I'd expect very brief "something" of an interaction yet Caleb moved on quickly and so did the Bears.   

Maybe to Phx's point they are just going through a formality with the hugs and not trying to show any cards.  I also suspect Phx can vouch there are people in business that can smile and look you in the eye while stabbing you in the back.   Probably we've all worked with someone like that one time or another.  So maybe this is nothing but people getting ready to go their separate ways.      

Then later in his interview with Colin Cowherd you still do not see any smile from Williams during any discussion of Chicago.  At the 1min mark Cowherd says hey Chicago has some dudes what's it going to be like working with Keenan Allen.  Williams first part of the response is IMO somewhat scripted (blessed to be #1 overall pick) but there's no smile when talking about Keenan until he begins discussing their friendship going back for years.  At that time I feel like we're seeing the real Caleb.   Then go to the 5min mark when Cowherd asks him again about going to Chicago where the fans "care".   While he still asking the question Caleb rolls his eyes, then has to bite his lip twice before answering what his vision of playing in Chicago will be like.  Again no smiles no immediate reaction just thought out words like he's reading a script.   

Regardless of the talent assessment it is still my opinion this guy does not want to play in Chicago... at this point in time.  I'm not sure we want him either.  

 

 

 

It's hard to say. I'm still a big fan of his talent, but there is something about him that I cant put my finger on.

I heard one sportswriter say that maybe he's trying to thread the needle of being pro Bear, but not disrespectful to another team that might trade up for him. That seems far fetched.

That Allen came out to see him might indicate that he's coming to Chicago.
Poles doesnt know him yet, so I guess it's more respectful. He DID squeeze, but the look aways were fast. Did he just ignore Eberflus?

Then again he slipped on ESPN and said "and Keenen is HERE for a 4th rounder" meaning Chicago...

I dunno, there are so many tea leaves to overreact to.

Anyway, while I'd still take him at #1, I know what you mean AZ54. Something is weird. I feel it too.

P.S. Im not predicting this, but I have been talking about a scenario for a while now where if Caleb didnt want to come to Chicago, and he told Poles that privately, would Poles want to announce it? Doesnt it make Chicago look bad and powerless? So mightn't both participate in a charade that we traded down for the haul? So no one judges Caleb, and the Bears dont get publicly dissed?

It's a far fetched theory. But if we dont take him, Im always gonna wonder.

[AZ54]

38 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

It's hard to say. I'm still a big fan of his talent, but there is something about him that I cant put my finger on.

I heard one sportswriter say that maybe he's trying to thread the needle of being pro Bear, but not disrespectful to another team that might trade up for him. That seems far fetched.

That Allen came out to see him might indicate that he's coming to Chicago.
Poles doesnt know him yet, so I guess it's more respectful. He DID squeeze, but the look aways were fast. Did he just ignore Eberflus?

Then again he slipped on ESPN and said "and Keenen is HERE for a 4th rounder" meaning Chicago...

I dunno, there are so many tea leaves to overreact to.

Anyway, while I'd still take him at #1, I know what you mean AZ54. Something is weird. I feel it too.

P.S. Im not predicting this, but I have been talking about a scenario for a while now where if Caleb didnt want to come to Chicago, and he told Poles that privately, would Poles want to announce it? Doesnt it make Chicago look bad and powerless? So mightn't both participate in a charade that we traded down for the haul? So no one judges Caleb, and the Bears dont get publicly dissed?

It's a far fetched theory. But if we dont take him, Im always gonna wonder.

I wouldn't leave that out of the realm of possibility.  

[BearFan PHX]

42 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I wouldn't leave that out of the realm of possibility.  

agree. I sure hope not tho.

[Mongo3451]

10 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Regardless of the talent assessment it is still my opinion this guy does not want to play in Chicago... at this point in time.  I'm not sure we want him either.  

That may be the case, but I didn't see anything on his pro day or interviews to indicate that.

What I see in Caleb is a kid that is tired of answering the same questions over and over.  He also looks like he's trying to say all the perfect words and it doesn't come naturally. 

Looking back at every interview with Patrick Mahomes, he just speaks fast and honestly.  No uhms, lip biting and stammering.  Same with Josh Allen, Lamar, Tua, Baker, etc.  Hopefully, he grows out of it.  Watch an interview with Drake Maye.  That dude knows who he is without thinking about it.  So much more likeable to me.

[50england50]

I haven’t seen anything that is giving me a red flag. He has only just met Poles and Flus so I cannot see why we are asking him to be all luvved up with them. He’s a young man and may be uncomfortable when greeting people. He knows Keenan Allen and wasn’t any warmer when they met. 
 

I think he is deliberately not alienating any fan base. Ok, we have the 1st pick, everything is pointing to us taking Caleb, but how will he feel going to Washington if he totally buys into the Bears and we trade down to number 2 because we have been offered numbers 2,36, 40 in 2024 and no 1 for 2025 and 2026. Even if Poles thinks Caleb is the next coming of Mahomes, he probably makes that trade. 

[Pixote]

44 minutes ago, 50england50 said:

I haven’t seen anything that is giving me a red flag. He has only just met Poles and Flus so I cannot see why we are asking him to be all luvved up with them. He’s a young man and may be uncomfortable when greeting people. He knows Keenan Allen and wasn’t any warmer when they met. 
 

I think he is deliberately not alienating any fan base. Ok, we have the 1st pick, everything is pointing to us taking Caleb, but how will he feel going to Washington if he totally buys into the Bears and we trade down to number 2 because we have been offered numbers 2,36, 40 in 2024 and no 1 for 2025 and 2026. Even if Poles thinks Caleb is the next coming of Mahomes, he probably makes that trade. 

I'd love that trade as long as he used the #2 he received from Washington to lock in a quarterback he thinks can take us to the Super Bowl.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Poles and Flus took Caleb and teammates to an upscale Hollywood club to get a feel on how he is.  Bet they don't do this with Maye, JJ, and Daniels

[Alaskan Grizzly]

13 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Does anyone know a body language expert?   Those hugs from Poles and especially with Eberflus seemed to me highly indifferent.

For what it's worth, I've seen a lot of people (on social media) comment how much they think Flus sends 'cringe' vibes.  So that may have  been a part of what was seen.  I will say for as much as I like the guy, he does come across as a bit awkward at times.  

With regards to the pursed lips etc, from what I remember one of the unconscious 'tells' that people give especially when they don't want to say something is either crossed arms (like a whole body block) while sitting or the subconsciously bring their hand up in front of their mouth.  The lips could be any number of things, like that or as Mongo said he was starting to struggle after a full day of talking.  When I watched the interview where he moved among the crowd (good move on his part) he seemed relatively comfortable but you could see he wasn't totally in his skin in doing it.  And like you observed, the hug thing was a bit weird too (not just with Flus) but with Poles especially.  Very brief and just awkward.  What it means?  Maybe nothing...  more to come I'm sure.

[Mongo3451]

Hugging is the new handshake...

[BearFan PHX]

In my job I met and worked with a lot of celebrities. Most are extreme, either the nicest person you ever met, or a giant jerk - about 50/50.

But one person I met was the most boring person Ive ever met. His personality was like mashed potatoes. it wasnt just that he was so nothing, but it like took all the energy out of everyone standing near them too. It was like a cloud of calm. And that was Joe Montana. He was like a black hole of a personality. Not negative, just incredibly neutral.

I can imagine it's the end of the superbowl, and the pressure is intense, and Joe just looks at Dwight Clark and says "just run about 10 yards into the corner there, and then Ill throw the ball and you catch it. easy." that kind of calm in a storm was probably like a superpower.

So yes, Caleb seems both insecure and cocky all at once. It's a lot for a young man to be capable of, and invested in, greatness, while still be a kid that has never thrown a ball in the NFL.

I think he will grow into it. It's pretty impressive that he's come this far so young. But is it incomplete and somewhat awkward - it totally is.

[BearFan PHX]

48 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

For what it's worth, I've seen a lot of people (on social media) comment how much they think Flus sends 'cringe' vibes.  So that may have  been a part of what was seen.  I will say for as much as I like the guy, he does come across as a bit awkward at times.  

With regards to the pursed lips etc, from what I remember one of the unconscious 'tells' that people give especially when they don't want to say something is either crossed arms (like a whole body block) while sitting or the subconsciously bring their hand up in front of their mouth.  The lips could be any number of things, like that or as Mongo said he was starting to struggle after a full day of talking.  When I watched the interview where he moved among the crowd (good move on his part) he seemed relatively comfortable but you could see he wasn't totally in his skin in doing it.  And like you observed, the hug thing was a bit weird too (not just with Flus) but with Poles especially.  Very brief and just awkward.  What it means?  Maybe nothing...  more to come I'm sure.

Yeah Flus is cringey. I still dont know exactly why they kept him, but I do feel like the staff around him is top notch.

Once they all go into battle together, that should help cohere them into a family.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Yeah Flus is cringey. I still dont know exactly why they kept him, but I do feel like the staff around him is top notch.

Once they all go into battle together, that should help cohere them into a family.

I think Flus is an easy tell just like when he was asked about Getsy late in the season.  It seemed clear to me that Getsy was getting fired if Flus was staying.    I get the part about Flus being cringy at times.  I think he's the type of person that would rather just tell you what he's really thinking and doesn't know how to mask that.  Then the nice things he says just come out awkwardly.  Poles I'm never sure how to read him other than the fact he always looks like he has a plan and refuses to tell you anything about it.

[BearFan PHX]

11 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I think Flus is an easy tell just like when he was asked about Getsy late in the season.  It seemed clear to me that Getsy was getting fired if Flus was staying.    I get the part about Flus being cringy at times.  I think he's the type of person that would rather just tell you what he's really thinking and doesn't know how to mask that.  Then the nice things he says just come out awkwardly.  Poles I'm never sure how to read him other than the fact he always looks like he has a plan and refuses to tell you anything about it.

for sure. to me, Id add that Flus is not the kind to command respect. He may well earn respect, as a nice guy, a guy you can trust, but i just cant see him scaring anyone. Hes a good cop. Poles hugging is an example of him being a good cop too. Im not saying they cant cut anyone, but I dont know if they can motivate the kind of players who need the stick instead of the carrot to change so they don't need to be traded or cut? Or in game?

I think of how motivating Bill Parcells was on the sidelines, and i think we miss an opportunity for that sort of leadership by having Flus as our HC. But maybe Caleb will take on that role. Some might say its insubordinate or inappropriate, and they well could be right on rank alone, but leaders lead, especially when (if) there is a vacuum from above.

Maybe Jalen Carter wouldnt respond to that kind of coaching. Maybe they know this and are building a certain kind of culture, call it modern, I dunno.

[Pixote]

Sorry, I don't see it. Cringey? Really?

Having a fiery coach on the sidelines or giving post-game interviews is entertaining. Ditka was fun, but actually not a very good HC. We should have won more than one SB with that roster. No excuse for a one-and-done.

That said, mild-mannered HCs have been very successful. As much as I detest the Cowboys, Landry was a master. 

Flus kept the team together and motivated during a very difficult rebuild when the roster was stripped down to its foundation and rebuilt over the past two years. It's still a work in progress. The players bought into his HITS system, they bonded as a team, and it takes a true leader, a HC who has the respect of the team, to accomplish that.

And yes, it's his first HC gig. He has made mistakes, but it seems like his on-the-job training is progressing at a remarkable rate. The finish of last year's slate of games was quite exciting. I saw growth. I felt hope for the future.

So you don't like the guy. Fine. But I am happy they kept a promising 1st timer instead of risking hiring a new HC like Wannstedt, Jauron, Fox, Trestman, or Nagy. Hell, compared to some of our recent HCs, Flus is amazing LOL

 

 

[BearFan PHX]

24 minutes ago, Pixote said:

Sorry, I don't see it. Cringey? Really?

Having a fiery coach on the sidelines or giving post-game interviews is entertaining. Ditka was fun, but actually not a very good HC. We should have won more than one SB with that roster. No excuse for a one-and-done.

That said, mild-mannered HCs have been very successful. As much as I detest the Cowboys, Landry was a master. 

Flus kept the team together and motivated during a very difficult rebuild when the roster was stripped down to its foundation and rebuilt over the past two years. It's still a work in progress. The players bought into his HITS system, they bonded as a team, and it takes a true leader, a HC who has the respect of the team, to accomplish that.

And yes, it's his first HC gig. He has made mistakes, but it seems like his on-the-job training is progressing at a remarkable rate. The finish of last year's slate of games was quite exciting. I saw growth. I felt hope for the future.

So you don't like the guy. Fine. But I am happy they kept a promising 1st timer instead of risking hiring a new HC like Wannstedt, Jauron, Fox, Trestman, or Nagy. Hell, compared to some of our recent HCs, Flus is amazing LOL

 

 

I agree with a lot of this.

Im not suggesting that a coach needs to be a yeller. When I was thinking of Parcells, I was thinking of him yelling "this is why you lift all them weights" to inspire - not yelling out of anger.

I just dont read Fous as an alpha. Of your list i think Wannstedt and Fox were alphas. Jauron and especially Trestman were pussies. nagy had a kind of fake swagger that felt insecure to me.

And youre right, lots of alpha coaches do porly too, because there are lots of things that go into being a good coach, and leadership is only one of them. But i dont think Flus is an inspiring leader.

But he got the gig, and now he is surrounded by talent and what seems to be an excellent coaching staff. So while I dont see Flus as being an impediment to winning or anything like that, I also think we lost the opportunity to bring someone in who would add an edge to us winning that Flus lacks. Still I think think we can win anyway.

But I wont be surprised if year 3 Caleb Williams yells at Flus on the sidelines or shows leadership to bring the team out of some mud, pulling the coaches along with him. Flus isn't a top dog type.

And I will also say that some alphas are quiet. I still dont think Flus is one of them though? No doubt Landry was quiet, but he was the unquestioned alpha in the room, I'm sure you agree. Not by title alone, but by personal energy, even if it was quiet.

[Stinger226]

21 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Does anyone know a body language expert?   Those hugs from Poles and especially with Eberflus seemed to me highly indifferent.  I'm a little odd in that I look for things like smiles and eye contact, even if brief, to tell if someone is being genuine.  I see Poles looking away and maybe just being "professional".  Eberflus OTOH didn't look happy at all, more mechanical in his motions.  Usually after that I'd expect very brief "something" of an interaction yet Caleb moved on quickly and so did the Bears.   

Maybe to Phx's point they are just going through a formality with the hugs and not trying to show any cards.  I also suspect Phx can vouch there are people in business that can smile and look you in the eye while stabbing you in the back.   Probably we've all worked with someone like that one time or another.  So maybe this is nothing but people getting ready to go their separate ways.      

Then later in his interview with Colin Cowherd you still do not see any smile from Williams during any discussion of Chicago.  At the 1min mark Cowherd says hey Chicago has some dudes what's it going to be like working with Keenan Allen.  Williams first part of the response is IMO somewhat scripted (blessed to be #1 overall pick) but there's no smile when talking about Keenan until he begins discussing their friendship going back for years.  At that time I feel like we're seeing the real Caleb.   Then go to the 5min mark when Cowherd asks him again about going to Chicago where the fans "care".   While he still asking the question Caleb rolls his eyes, then has to bite his lip twice before answering what his vision of playing in Chicago will be like.  Again no smiles no immediate reaction just thought out words like he's reading a script.   

Regardless of the talent assessment it is still my opinion this guy does not want to play in Chicago... at this point in time.  I'm not sure we want him either.  

 

 

 

I actually took a college course on body language which doesn't make me an expert but does give insight in some ways. I was traveling so I haven't seen any press conferences, I'll check it out.

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I agree with a lot of this.

Im not suggesting that a coach needs to be a yeller. When I was thinking of Parcells, I was thinking of him yelling "this is why you lift all them weights" to inspire - not yelling out of anger.

I just dont read Fous as an alpha. Of your list i think Wannstedt and Fox were alphas. Jauron and especially Trestman were pussies. nagy had a kind of fake swagger that felt insecure to me.

And youre right, lots of alpha coaches do porly too, because there are lots of things that go into being a good coach, and leadership is only one of them. But i dont think Flus is an inspiring leader.

But he got the gig, and now he is surrounded by talent and what seems to be an excellent coaching staff. So while I dont see Flus as being an impediment to winning or anything like that, I also think we lost the opportunity to bring someone in who would add an edge to us winning that Flus lacks. Still I think think we can win anyway.

But I wont be surprised if year 3 Caleb Williams yells at Flus on the sidelines or shows leadership to bring the team out of some mud, pulling the coaches along with him. Flus isn't a top dog type.

And I will also say that some alphas are quiet. I still dont think Flus is one of them though? No doubt Landry was quiet, but he was the unquestioned alpha in the room, I'm sure you agree. Not by title alone, but by personal energy, even if it was quiet.

It's hard to fit certain traits on coaches to determine how successful they will be. There's tons of examples that show so many personality types can win. Flus shows he's a player coach by the way his team supports him. Ultimately that's the most important trait in my eyes. He's awkward in public settings but that's no big deal. Coaches learn how to be HCs as much as p!ayers learn how to be play at the NFL level. 

This year Poles and Flus have to win, we will see how much they have progressed at their jobs. Nagy had a great 2018 and still failed to be a good HC, Flus keeping this team together while losing all those games, speaks volumes to how good of a coach he can be.

We're in good hands.

[AZ54]

5 hours ago, Pixote said:

Sorry, I don't see it. Cringey? Really?

Having a fiery coach on the sidelines or giving post-game interviews is entertaining. Ditka was fun, but actually not a very good HC. We should have won more than one SB with that roster. No excuse for a one-and-done.

That said, mild-mannered HCs have been very successful. As much as I detest the Cowboys, Landry was a master. 

Flus kept the team together and motivated during a very difficult rebuild when the roster was stripped down to its foundation and rebuilt over the past two years. It's still a work in progress. The players bought into his HITS system, they bonded as a team, and it takes a true leader, a HC who has the respect of the team, to accomplish that.

And yes, it's his first HC gig. He has made mistakes, but it seems like his on-the-job training is progressing at a remarkable rate. The finish of last year's slate of games was quite exciting. I saw growth. I felt hope for the future.

So you don't like the guy. Fine. But I am happy they kept a promising 1st timer instead of risking hiring a new HC like Wannstedt, Jauron, Fox, Trestman, or Nagy. Hell, compared to some of our recent HCs, Flus is amazing LOL

 

 

My point was about some of his mannerisms during press conferences.   Has nothing to do with coaching acumen.