Best options to win in 2024

[Pixote]

I was giving you grief over the expectations you now seem to have. (yes, using caps and such to make a point and not because I am mad. Believe me, if you ever really piss me off, you will not have to interpret my post, you will know.)

I can remember you saying you didn't know which QB you preferred. You'd have to check the tapes.

The very next day you said you had it figured out. Caleb was the guy. You watched the tapes. If we disagree, all we have to do is watch the tapes. Watch the tapes, Watch the tapes. Over and over, trying to pound it into our empty skulls that you know he is the guy because you watched the tapes.

You made it sound like he could walk on water. You kept reminding us how he was generational, once in a lifetime. Worth umpteen #1s.

So I couldn't resist pushing you a bit because now you are saying he will need time. Not to expect the finished product the first year.

That I actually agree with.

I was giving you shit because until recently, now that we are pretty sure Poles will draft him, you seemed to have much higher expectations.

I posted the stats about Peyton & Andrew to show that two of the highest-rated QB prospects over the past 2 decades struggled in their rookie seasons. Hell, Peyton, one of the best QBs of all time, threw 26 TDs and 28 INTs! Both Luck & Manning's completion %s sucked. They had a lot of yards gained, but because they threw a ton of passes.

If I was serious when I threw an elbow into your ribs, saying I expected a GOAT performance from Caleb the first year, I sure as hell wouldn't have posted Manning and Luck's stats from their rookie seasons proving just the opposite.

[BearFan PHX]

Ok well I guess that went over my head.

And yes, I was very clear that I didn't know which QBs I preferred, no matter who was saying what about them in the press, until I watched the tape. I took about a week to do that, not a day, I watched several games, watching each play 3 or 4 times to be sure what the design of the play was, and then what Caleb did. I saw good, bad, and ugly, but mostly good, and evidence of him doing all the different skills a great QB needs, from making reads in tempo to heroball. Again, its not some special talent I have, anyone could watch the film the same way i did, and come to the same conclusion, and it seems over time, most have. So its not about me, its just Williams is great on tape.

What I came away with was that he is a "generational" prospect. That was a media word, I didnt coin it. He was a rare prospect that looks like he has what it takes to be amazing in the NFL.

I've never said that he would be at his peak on day one - that'd be ridiculous. And I never said he was a "generational" NFL QB. Not yet. He hasnt played a down in the league. Usually I said that he had a better LIKELIHOOD to be great. I think i put it at around 80% hit rate to be "elite" (meaning winning playoff games, definition from an earlier article we were all discussing, and percentages they studied).

But he certainly is a generational prospect, and we should all hope that he will fulfill his potential and become a generational NFL QB, or at least an elite one. I think I've said a multiple super bowl winner at times too, but I never said in year 1. Is it possible in year 1? It actually is, but I wouldnt necessarily bet on it. But I think it's coming in time.

But you haven't caught me in any inconsistency. I know exactly what I've been saying, and really only someone trying to "gotcha" me would be hearing me that way. I've been pretty clear.

But anyway I'm not getting sucked back into this personal crap.

Williams is awesome, we are lucky to have him, and I am looking for flashes or greatness and development in year 1. Of course progress wont be linear, it never is. His worst game could be week 3 or week 6 or something. But if he is who we think he's gonna be, we should see evidence of it immediately, and I also expect some setbacks and growing pains before he can be consistently great.

Also setbacks could include an early game with multiple interceptions. Id be more comfortable with a 4 interception game 3 than turnovers spread out over games. I suspect the NFL defenses are going to have to humble Caleb a bit for him to learn how good he has to be if he wants to keep making himself look great. thats where his ego becomes a strength - first he thinks hes NFL better than he is, throws some picks, gets mad, and then compulsively  fine tunes his game so he can complete those balls and win at this level - thats what I think its going to look like. He is going to want to be great, not just good, and if that means overaggressive at first, thats OK, as long as he learns how to dominate at this level at the end of the process.

If we see that in 2024, we should feel comfortable that we have our guy at QB going into the future.

[Stinger226]

I don't think Waldron unleashes him to the NFL, I think it's small footsteps. If he can refrain from hero ball and stay within the offense early, he could have a highly productive year. The unknown is his ego and how that effects his play. His talent is not his kryptonite, it's the mental aspect of his game. 

Poles is going to take him so we have to ride the storm out, the other side is a SB entry. I doubt that happens in his first year but we have built the team to all give us a chance to win some playoff games. I'm an optimist so maybe I'm over the end of my skis. But I always live there no matter what players are involved.

[killakrzydav]

CW

[Stinger226]

I think with the move to re enter the draft for a DE, clearly Poles thinks we're winning this year. He's just a situational pass rusher at this point but that will boost the DL. 

As much as we still question the OL , Braxton, Jenkins, Bates, Davis and Wright will be an at least average graded line to work with. Poles tried to get Bates before and sees something in him. We have added depth with Pryor, Shelton,  Kiran A. 

Last year our two big weaknesses was the center position and Borom when he had to play, we fixed that. The one outlier is the health of Jenkins, I don't think Davis will be a problem at all. 

I think there still is a couple of moves to be made by Poles. Another DE and maybe an OL vet.

We are supposed to quiet our expectations because we have a rookie QB. I'm not. 

What say you?

[Mongo3451]

15 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Last year our two big weaknesses was the center position and Borom when he had to play, we fixed that. The one outlier is the health of Jenkins, I don't think Davis will be a problem at all. 

I hope you are right.  You are taking about a guy that couldn't start for his team and an inexperienced Ivy League tackle.  Sounds like regurgitated Patrick BS to me...

[BearFan PHX]

I think we have two options at center now in Bates and Shelton.

The loser of that competition can compete at guard as well.

[Mongo3451]

14 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think we have two options at center now in Bates and Shelton.

The loser of that competition can compete at guard as well.

We had Whitehair, Patrick, Kramer and Feeney last year.  Do Bates and Shelton have any better pedigree?

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

We had Whitehair, Patrick, Kramer and Feeney last year.  Do Bates and Shelton have any better pedigree?

for sure they do, yes, but that's not a high bar LOL

[AZ54]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

We had Whitehair, Patrick, Kramer and Feeney last year.  Do Bates and Shelton have any better pedigree?

Bates is a lot stronger anchoring than Patrick.  He just doesn’t always have the best footwork.  As long as he gets it right early in the block he’s good.   Can the coaches get him to avoid the missteps?   Caleb and I both hope so.  

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Bates is a lot stronger anchoring than Patrick.  He just doesn’t always have the best footwork.  As long as he gets it right early in the block he’s good.   Can the coaches get him to avoid the missteps?   Caleb and I both hope so.  

The anchoring part is somewhat of a comfort, because Patrick was a Matador.  I guess I need to hit the film instead of bitching about what I want.

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

The anchoring part is somewhat of a comfort, because Patrick was a Matador.  I guess I need to hit the film instead of bitching about what I want.

 

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

The anchoring part is somewhat of a comfort, because Patrick was a Matador.  I guess I need to hit the film instead of bitching about what I want.

Of course it's an unknown but Poles has been making some good moves lately, I trust him to know what he's doing. He has two potential answers to the problem plus backup if injured. Its not  a Connor Williams ( who is still available) but definitely an upgrade.