Draft ALL OFFENSE

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Barton also has a high iq for understanding and making line calls. I mentioned him months ago for C when he was listed mainly as OT.  Been seeing some drafts with GB taking him rd1 because he has versatility to play anywhere. I wouldn't complain if Poles drafted him and if he is climbing, then maybe Frazier slides. 

If we trade back and get a second, probably Frazier is the only one that will be available. I remember Van Pran getting a lot of love last year but now he is listed 80-100 draft value. I wonder why he slipped? Also Linmer from Arkansas was brought in and is a high RAS score guy you could get 3rd and 4th area. Sit behind Bates for a year and be ready in 2025? His draft bio seems to be close to other top prospects.

[AZ54]

49 minutes ago, adam said:

Barton is shooting up boards for some reason. The team might not have used a top-30 visit on some guys, but could've visited them during their Pro-Day, at one of the All-Star games, or at the combine. Also, any player within the Chicago-metro area does not need to count against the top-30 visits and they don't have to announce those.

Because he was underrated coming into the draft process.   I saw him in one game midsession.  He was just stonewalling guys and making it look easy.  
 

[Stinger226]

9 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Because he was underrated coming into the draft process.   I saw him in one game midsession.  He was just stonewalling guys and making it look easy.  
 

Having a all offensive draft gives us something to talk about, but no one actually thinks that will happen? It's a question

One will be a DE , whether 1B or if we acquire a 2, or pick 75.

[killakrzydav]

Agreed. No chance we don't draft a DE in my opinion at either 9 or 75 barring a trade for more picks.

[BearFan PHX]

Possibly we will get that DE in a trade or free agency as rosters develop, and maybe mid season like Sweat at the trade deadline. Not bad to take a minute to get a look at younger players who need reps.

But will we be adding a DE to this roster before the draft next year? 100% you guys are right.

[jason]

On 4/17/2024 at 12:42 PM, Mongo3451 said:

I'm drafting him to be an OG, since I don't trust any of our guards.  He would be an absolute animal next to Wright.  Let Davis and Jenkins battle it out.  Since Waldron runs a lot of two and three TE sets, strength up the middle is more useful. (Kinda like Sean Peyton runs)  I've been criticized for drafting him so high to be OG, but where would you draft Larry Allen if you thought he would be that dude?

I’m 100% fine with drafting what you believe to be an all pro OG in the first round.

I pay car, property, and life insurance. Same concept. You get insurance for the things that are most important. And if the insurance costs more than you’d like, you accept that since it protects the thing that’s actually important, and worth FAR more than what you’re paying on insurance.

If Fuaga comes into camp with cauliflower ears, a neck as thick as his head, and a willingness to bite off an opponent’s testicles to save Williams, then IDGAF that an OG is drafted in the first. 

The message should be universal:

PROTECT WILLIAMS (not Fields) AT ALL COSTS

[BearFan PHX]

3 minutes ago, jason said:

I’m 100% fine with drafting what you believe to be an all pro OG in the first round.

I pay car, property, and life insurance. Same concept. You get insurance for the things that are most important. And if the insurance costs more than you’d like, you accept that since it protects the thing that’s actually important, and worth FAR more than what you’re paying on insurance.

If Fuaga comes into camp with cauliflower ears, a neck as thick as his head, and a willingness to bite off an opponent’s testicles to save Williams, then IDGAF that an OG is drafted in the first. 

The message should be universal:

PROTECT FIELDS AT ALL COSTS

lol Williams, but yes!

[jason]

1 minute ago, BearFan PHX said:

lol Williams, but yes!

LOL. Freudian slip. Probably because they never did for Fields what they should do for Williams.

[BearFan PHX]

Just now, jason said:

LOL. Freudian slip. Probably because they never did for Fields what they should do for Williams.

That's how I took it.

[Mongo3451]

37 minutes ago, jason said:

I’m 100% fine with drafting what you believe to be an all pro OG in the first round.

I pay car, property, and life insurance. Same concept. You get insurance for the things that are most important. And if the insurance costs more than you’d like, you accept that since it protects the thing that’s actually important, and worth FAR more than what you’re paying on insurance.

If Fuaga comes into camp with cauliflower ears, a neck as thick as his head, and a willingness to bite off an opponent’s testicles to save Williams, then IDGAF that an OG is drafted in the first. 

The message should be universal:

PROTECT WILLIAMS (not Fields) AT ALL COSTS

That's the way I see it brother...

[Stinger226]

If they drafted all oline I would understand that but Poles isn't going to do that. If Alt drops to 9 , BPA logic tells you to take him but I don't think that will happen. 

Poles is not drafting a OG at 9, you can make all kinds of scenarios for it. A WR or DE will have more of an impact than a guard,now if he moves back to the teens then I think JPJ is more in play than a OG. It was the worst in the league last year and JPJ is probably future pro bowl.

The guards this year is not going to be a problem. If Jenkins has injury issues again he brought in competent backups, Bates or Shelton fills the spot. Matt Pryor can play there to.  Davis will not be a problem, last year was unique because his mother died while living with him. 

So realistically Odunze or trade back and opens other possibilities. If 3 #1 WRS are on the field Caleb will not need 4 seconds to get a throw off.  I think average in the league last year was 2.47 seconds to get a pass off. 

[jason]

8 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

If they drafted all oline I would understand that but Poles isn't going to do that. If Alt drops to 9 , BPA logic tells you to take him but I don't think that will happen. 

Poles is not drafting a OG at 9, you can make all kinds of scenarios for it. A WR or DE will have more of an impact than a guard,now if he moves back to the teens then I think JPJ is more in play than a OG. It was the worst in the league last year and JPJ is probably future pro bowl.

The guards this year is not going to be a problem. If Jenkins has injury issues again he brought in competent backups, Bates or Shelton fills the spot. Matt Pryor can play there to.  Davis will not be a problem, last year was unique because his mother died while living with him. 

So realistically Odunze or trade back and opens other possibilities. If 3 #1 WRS are on the field Caleb will not need 4 seconds to get a throw off.  I think average in the league last year was 2.47 seconds to get a pass off. 

The bolded is where I take issue.

I’m 100% convinced that a WR does not have as big an impact when the OGs suck, but an OG can still have great impact when the WRs are dropping the ball. It’s chicken and egg stuff. Similarly, a great OL gives the QB time to throw, and even average WRS get open in the NFL if given enough time.

DE? Sure, maybe, but I don’t want defense. I want the Bears to transition into an offensive franchise…which is also what I said, and didn’t happen, with Trubisky or Fields.

[Stinger226]

5 minutes ago, jason said:

The bolded is where I take issue.

I’m 100% convinced that a WR does not have as big an impact when the OGs suck, but an OG can still have great impact when the WRs are dropping the ball. It’s chicken and egg stuff. Similarly, a great OL gives the QB time to throw, and even average WRS get open in the NFL if given enough time.

DE? Sure, maybe, but I don’t want defense. I want the Bears to transition into an offensive franchise…which is also what I said, and didn’t happen, with Trubisky or Fields.

. Jenkins is all pro when he plays. Averages 4 missed games a year. Nate Davis has a history of above average play. His mom died and he bombed the season. I fully expect him to get back to his usual play. He brought in Bates and Shelton that are both considered back up OGs. Are they great, no but gives better depth than last year.

I think he drafts a center and depending on who will back up Bates. JPJ or Frasier may even start.  

So when I made that statement , it was taking in consideration of our existing roster. Our OGs are not going to suck.

Now 3 #1 WRs allows the QB to get the ball out quicker so the OL doesn't have to be great.That is also one of the strength of this QB, quick decisions and quick release.

A DE paired with Sweat will increase our sacks and TOs that helps any offense with field position and game changing plays. We were last in sacks last year and led the league in interceptions. Just imagine our pass rush just being average and what that produces.

[Pixote]

I just saw another mock draft on nbcsportschicago.com. They mentioned a forth round pick as a solid OC candidate, one that could be a starter within a year. I don't recall anyone mentioning this guy, so I'd be curious if any of you have an opinion on:

Hunter Nourzad, IOL, or Penn State.

Good? Bad? So-So? LOL

[killakrzydav]

So so. Long arms.  Decent size and movement.  Rsated around 180 right now.

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Pixote said:

I just saw another mock draft on nbcsportschicago.com. They mentioned a forth round pick as a solid OC candidate, one that could be a starter within a year. I don't recall anyone mentioning this guy, so I'd be curious if any of you have an opinion on:

Hunter Nourzad, IOL, or Penn State.

Good? Bad? So-So? LOL

If we go fourth round center, I'm taking Beaux Limmer.

[Pixote]

I see where the Lions are printing money to build their roster. They just announced two signings. 

OT Sewell- 4yrs 112 Million

WR St Brown - 4 yrs 120 Million

Now, if it took 30 million per year to sign St Brown to an extension, what would it cost the Bears when it is time to resign Moore? 40 Million per year?

This shows how important it will be to have a WR1 on a 5 year rookie deal.

We also have to consider CW. IF he is as good as we believe he is, and proves it on the field from day one, you can bet by the end of year 3 he will be holding out for a renegotiated contract. Bank it!

We have to be prepared to maintain the roster Poles is building.

[jason]

On 4/22/2024 at 8:13 AM, Stinger226 said:

. Jenkins is all pro when he plays. Averages 4 missed games a year. Nate Davis has a history of above average play. His mom died and he bombed the season. I fully expect him to get back to his usual play. He brought in Bates and Shelton that are both considered back up OGs. Are they great, no but gives better depth than last year.

I think he drafts a center and depending on who will back up Bates. JPJ or Frasier may even start.  

So when I made that statement , it was taking in consideration of our existing roster. Our OGs are not going to suck.

Now 3 #1 WRs allows the QB to get the ball out quicker so the OL doesn't have to be great.That is also one of the strength of this QB, quick decisions and quick release.

A DE paired with Sweat will increase our sacks and TOs that helps any offense with field position and game changing plays. We were last in sacks last year and led the league in interceptions. Just imagine our pass rush just being average and what that produces.

We disagree. Great WRs don't always allow a QB to release quicker.

Where are you getting this? By nearly all accounts, the problem with Williams is the same as Fields: he holds the ball too long. His release is quick, but his decisions are not.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, jason said:

We disagree. Great WRs don't always allow a QB to release quicker.

Where are you getting this? By nearly all accounts, the problem with Williams is the same as Fields: he holds the ball too long. His release is quick, but his decisions are not.

It's coming from my common sense. It's not a 100% statement but if you have better talent at WR, logic tells me they get open more often than bad WRs. Trust in your WRs allows QBs to anticipate throws quicker in their decision making. 

Example: Justin had a quicker release time with DJ last year than with Tyler Scott. He trusted him to be where he was supposed to be and catch the ball so he didn't have to wait until he got open, he could anticipate. Now if you're first read is throwing a deep route obviously he will hold the ball longer but it's a general statement.

Im sure there are some next generation stats that show that but it's ok if you disagree with me .  I'm not trying to plant a flag with that comment it's just part of a conversation. I could be wrong.

Another thing, I don't think their taking OL  at 9 but I watched a video with some journalists discussed the OL and I now thinks it's very possible in in a trade back. They were talking about Jenkins and his injury history. Plus this is his last year in contract. So if Poles doesn't want to pay him, he may draft his replacement now and have him starting next year. That makes sense to me .

[BearFan PHX]

5 hours ago, jason said:

We disagree. Great WRs don't always allow a QB to release quicker.

Where are you getting this? By nearly all accounts, the problem with Williams is the same as Fields: he holds the ball too long. His release is quick, but his decisions are not.

not really true tho. the average time to throw is similar, but the standard deviation is VERY different.

There are many dozens of examples on film where Williams gets the ball out fast. And other examples where he buys a ton of time before throwing. So his average looks like Fields' but his game film definitely does not.

This is one of those times where the stat doesnt really tell the whole story. Williams is nothing like Fields.

[BearFan PHX]

6 hours ago, Pixote said:

I see where the Lions are printing money to build their roster. They just announced two signings. 

OT Sewell- 4yrs 112 Million

WR St Brown - 4 yrs 120 Million

Now, if it took 30 million per year to sign St Brown to an extension, what would it cost the Bears when it is time to resign Moore? 40 Million per year?

This shows how important it will be to have a WR1 on a 5 year rookie deal.

We also have to consider CW. IF he is as good as we believe he is, and proves it on the field from day one, you can bet by the end of year 3 he will be holding out for a renegotiated contract. Bank it!

We have to be prepared to maintain the roster Poles is building.

for sure, and you want that special WR that Caleb can build ESP with where just a look tells them both what theyre doing. If the right WR is there at 9, that's a very tempting pick for sure.

[Stinger226]

Here's a video about Caleb and one gen stat says his release time is 0.28 compared to the NFL average is 0.45. A split second in a pass play matters. 

 

[BearFan PHX]

it's literally twice as fast as the average!

I've been saying for a while that his physical release reminds me a lot of Dan Marino.

Imagine building this frankenstein of a quarterback:

The release of Marino, the pocket movement of Rodgers, the out of structure playmaking of Mahomes...

Lets go!

[jason]

On 4/24/2024 at 9:15 PM, BearFan PHX said:

not really true tho. the average time to throw is similar, but the standard deviation is VERY different.

There are many dozens of examples on film where Williams gets the ball out fast. And other examples where he buys a ton of time before throwing. So his average looks like Fields' but his game film definitely does not.

This is one of those times where the stat doesnt really tell the whole story. Williams is nothing like Fields.

If That’s true, then why does everyone, literally every analyst, say he holds the ball too long? Sounds similar to me.

[BearFan PHX]

4 minutes ago, jason said:

If That’s true, then why does everyone, literally every analyst, say he holds the ball too long? Sounds similar to me.

because half of them didnt even watch the film and are just repeating a narrative in an echo chamber.

I have personally seen dozens of plays where he got the ball out as fast as anyone ever with my own eyes. He has a ridiculously fast and compact Marino-esque throwing motion too.