Caleb Williams, QB, USC selected #1 overall

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Pixote said:

I have been to so many training camps for the Bears, going back to the dog days in Plattville. I can promise you this is nothing special. In fact, I bet every QB on our roster could execute that drill without a miss-step.

Totally disagree. Different QBs have different levels of accuracy. Caleb's is excellent, as you can see from that drill. The ball is in the identical place each time. That's not common.

I want to say this without being a jerk, but you also thought Fields was a good QB, so maybe you don't have that critical eye for judging QBs? I know you see the drama in the game, and when it's a big play that seems tougher than throwing a ball easily into a small garbage can 30 yard away. But while there are other factors at work in the big play - reading the defense, pocket awareness etc, the throw itself is the same.

You can absolutely judge accuracy and mechanics on warm up throws like that. I've also been watching football a LONG time too, and I can see a difference.

 

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Totally disagree. Different QBs have different levels of accuracy. Caleb's is excellent, as you can see from that drill. The ball is in the identical place each time. That's not common.

I'll disagree with your disagree.  My eighteen year old son can do that and he's a WR.  You are dead wrong on the accuracy analogy, but dead right on the mechanics.

 

[BearFan PHX]

13 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I'll disagree with your disagree.  My eighteen year old son can do that and he's a WR.  You are dead wrong on the accuracy analogy, but dead right on the mechanics.

 

your eighteen year old son can drop a football into a garbage can from 30 yards away 20 out of 20 times?

Caleb is a highly accurate QB. And you can see it in everything he throws.

[BearFan PHX]

In thinking more about these reactions i think i should add some more info.

First off these are not game type throws. There is a lot of air under those balls. One hopes at full speed those throws would be a lot flatter and get there a lot faster. I thought that was obvious, but maybe I should say it.

I'm not saying I see evidence of arm strength in these particular throws. I'm not saying they are hard throws to make.

I'm just saying these three things.

1) Every throw looks the same from his body. Love the consistent body mechanics.

2) Every throw looks great coming off of his compact delivery - love the arm mechanics too.

and I guess this was the controversial one

3) Every throw is dropping in exactly the same place. Each ball is identical in flight path.

So it's the repeatability, mechanics and the clean accurate balls they produce that I'm commenting on.

I wasnt saying they were hard throws or difficult throws to make, other than the increased accuracy. He is just very consistent in the way he throws, and consequently, the way the ball follows extremely similar paths.

Anyone, including Bagent or anyone, can make those rainbow throws, but they wouldn't have them all drop in exactly the same place.

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

your eighteen year old son can drop a football into a garbage can from 30 yards away 20 out of 20 times?

Caleb is a highly accurate QB. And you can see it in everything he throws.

It's like playing catch.  Get over yourself.  We used play it for points.  Listen, your are right about his technique and anticipation.  But, in drills like that it's very very easy.  His accuracy may be special, but nobody is seeing it from drills like the ones in rookie camp.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I mean, this is the first rookie camp so it is odd to start the drooling so soon.  But glad to see the kid looks good.  There better be more of this for like 10 years. 

[BearFan PHX]

5 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

It's like playing catch.  Get over yourself.  We used play it for points.  Listen, your are right about his technique and anticipation.  But, in drills like that it's very very easy.  His accuracy may be special, but nobody is seeing it from drills like the ones in rookie camp.

I dont think I need to get over myself to say that Williams was extra accurate. I was impressed. You werent. Cool.

[Stinger226]

16 hours ago, Pixote said:

I have been to so many training camps for the Bears, going back to the dog days in Plattville. I can promise you this is nothing special. In fact, I bet every QB on our roster could execute that drill without a miss-step.

Now, what you should be excited about is the blurb I read on several sites, (the quote below from nbcsportschicago.com). It tells me that Caleb and Rome are already developing the "mental connection" in day one of rookie camp that legendary QB/WR teammates had to help them have HOF careers. Manning/Harrison. Montana/Rice. Unitas/Berry. Now Williams/Odunze. Yes, we have a lot to look forward to:

 

To be honest this is 15 throws at a two hour practice. Its like watching  a players highlight film, its just a small sample size. If you knew nothing about Caleb, a person would say this was nice but its just nothing special in the oversll perspective of s player.

[BearFan PHX]

Ok you naysayers.

Here's a quote from Adam Hoge on the score.

"I'll give you an example from even individual drills today. They're just running go routes, over and over and over again. You see it in every NFL practice you've ever been to. But I don't know how often I've seen a ball forty yard down field in the same exact spot throw after throw after throw with like the same trajectory right in the same spot, all of them accurate, the only one that hit the ground was a drop by one of the rookie tryout tight ends.

Usually they still - that one landed two yards out of bounds, this one was a little bit inside towards the hash, theyre not always accurate."

If you want to disagree with me, go ahead. But as far as QB evaluation, I've been right every single time. If you find that arrogant, there's not much I can do to dissuade you all from it, but maybe in the future you'll just say you disagree, and not treat me like I'm SO dumb and off base, since I keep being right.

Remember, this whole idea that after 15 years, suddenly I dont respect peoples right to an opinion was because i said Justin sucks and a lot of you were sure i was out of my mind. Well I was 100% right, so i wasnt being arrogant. You were being wrong and SO sure you were right that it felt like I was arrogant.

Well, once again, you all told me that Caleb's accuracy in those simple warmups was common and I must not know what Im talking about, but then here comes Hoge saying the EXACT same thing.

So, maybe you guys should respect my right to have an opinion, since I kind of know what Im talking about.
 

 

[AZ54]

21 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Totally disagree. Different QBs have different levels of accuracy. Caleb's is excellent, as you can see from that drill. The ball is in the identical place each time. That's not common.

I want to say this without being a jerk, but you also thought Fields was a good QB, so maybe you don't have that critical eye for judging QBs? I know you see the drama in the game, and when it's a big play that seems tougher than throwing a ball easily into a small garbage can 30 yard away. But while there are other factors at work in the big play - reading the defense, pocket awareness etc, the throw itself is the same.

You can absolutely judge accuracy and mechanics on warm up throws like that. I've also been watching football a LONG time too, and I can see a difference.

 

Totally classless.  I support Pix having the right to his opinion.  I support you having the right to yours as well.  

[BearFan PHX]

52 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Totally classless.  I support Pix having the right to his opinion.  I support you having the right to yours as well.  

yeah so do I. I simply said that I believe his opinion is wrong, because that's my opinion.

But somehow calling me classless is classy, despite me having prefaced it with "I want to say this without being a jerk" boy is everyone SO sensitive, but IM the one thats paranoid LOL

I am SO sick of fighting with everyone on this board.

Deal with the fact that Fields sucks and I was right. It isnt my fault when you are wrong.

You all tell me to be nicer and then its like one after another of you continually takes shots at me.

So, OK, I will return fire then. But dont you dare say Im out of line, Im just going the speed of traffic.

When I say something I see with my own eyes, that you didnt already read in some article, you call me out. Well guess what? I have eyes. I know good QB and bad QB play when I see it. Sorry if that sounds offensive to you.

It's like seeing something that's green, and everyone says it's red, and I say "no it's green" and then i get a lot of "why dont you respect our opinion? youre so mean" Ok snowflakes, you think it's red. Good for you. But youre wrong. That's not because Im arrogant, it's because the freakin thing is green. it just IS.

maybe youd like me better if you didnt have so many dumb opinions that you need to ego defend.

Is that better? Classless? Love it? Keep the hate coming.

WTF

Caleb was super accurate. You need to dump on me for that? Thats DUMB. He is incredibly accurate. I can see it with my own eyes. Why does that bother everyone so much?

It would only take a tiny bit of humility and introspection for many of you to realize that you've been the ones disrespectful to me and then projecting that on to me. I wont hold my breath tho.

Keep in mind this latest skirmish began when I simply posted that I was impressed by Williams' accuracy. Then you all needed to tell me I didnt know what I was seeing, that I needed to "get over myself" etc - was I calling ANY of you out? No I was posting something positive about Williams.

The stuff that was personal was all of you telling me I didnt know what I was talking about. Was that you all respecting my opinion? Arent you in fact the ones doing everything youre saying Im doing?

Well Adam Hoge said the same thin on the score. So i guess Im not so dumb after all huh.

Take a freaking look at yourselves. How often youre climbing on me after I say something about football, not about you.

This all started with Fields. I was right. He sucks. Youre mad at the truth, not me.

Im gonna continue to say what I see on the field. If that offends you, get a helmet or something. But if you need to get in my face about it while yelling how classy you are and what a jerk I am, take a moment to see who is making it personal first. its not me. Im talking about football.

But if you need to be jerks, then do it. And dont cry when I return serve.

It's your decision how to set the tone here not mine.

But I can tell you Im about reached my limit and Im gonna come back in symmetry. A bully punches you in the face, then you punch back and the bully cries about how unfair you are. It's pathetic.

[BearFan PHX]

Im just thinking this over. So the classy thing is to pretend that everyone has a good eye for evaluating QBs. If you say someone else doesnt, that classless.

Where do I get my participation trophy?

[Mongo3451]

15 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I dont think I need to get over myself to say that Williams was extra accurate. I was impressed. You werent. Cool.

The reasons I told you to get over yourself were, first, you questioned Pix's ability to assess quarterbacks, which was out of line.(If you are that good at it, maybe you should apply your talents professionally)  Secondly, you questioned what I said about my kid.(Not cool)  Then there's your attitude like Caleb has arrived, when he hasn't played a down in the league.  Also, putting words on my mouth, saying I wasn't impressed with him was dead wrong.  Much more important things, than drill accuracy, impressed me about him at rookie camp.

Now, you're bringing me up in your rant to AZ.  At some point, the common denominator reveals itself.

[BearFan PHX]

22 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

The reasons I told you to get over yourself were, first, you questioned Pix's ability to assess quarterbacks, which was out of line.(If you are that good at it, maybe you should apply your talents professionally)  Secondly, you questioned what I said about my kid.(Not cool)  Then there's your attitude like Caleb has arrived, when he hasn't played a down in the league.  Also, putting words on my mouth, saying I wasn't impressed with him was dead wrong.  Much more important things, than drill accuracy, impressed me about him at rookie camp.

Now, you're bringing me up in your rant to AZ.  At some point, the common denominator reveals itself.

Oh go stuff yourself. I did not bring up your kid OR demean him. Thats self rightious fake bullshit.

YOU brought him up and made a claim and I simply asked if that's what you were claiming. Dont pretend I'm attacking your family that is total bullshit. Why would you twist something around that much? Do you think that's you being the moral high ground? Really?

Also, I told Pix that my opinion was that he was wrong. I prefaced it by saying I wasnt meaning to be a jerk, but he had misread Fields so maybe i was right.

So dont make up lies to paint me as a demon.

The common denominator here is that you are all so pissed that i was right about Fields and other things that youre ganging together to make me wrong somehow some way. Bullshit.

But seriously how dare you imply that i said anything mean about your son or brought someones family into it.

You want a common denominator? Its the ridiculous need to "get me"with made up claims.

I said something positive about Caleb, not about any of you. You then all told me I was wrong, and I POLITELY and with facts rebutted it several times. THEN the "get over yourself" started etc.

You are literally offended that I have an opinion and wont back off of it when a bunch of you disagree with me. I thought this was the place where disrespecting someones opinion was the worst thing ever.

And finally I posted Hoge saying the SAME thing. So maybe I wasnt wrong. Huh.

So you know what? You can all back off. I said something positive about Caleb, and a professional said the same thing the next day. I fielded all your criticisms politely and with facts, and then after enough personal stuff i returned serve.

But dont you dare say i went after your family. Thats a dirty lie. Its a desperate attempt to defeat me somehow some way for your own egos.

You claimed your son could put a football into a garbage can  repeatedly from 30 yards away. So I asked if you really meant that literally. Is that disrespect? Is that me bringing your family into it? Seriously?!

Caleb is accurate. Dont like it? Go cry about it jesus.

YOu can all hate me as much as you like, but it doesnt make you right, and when youre constantly looking for a way to prove me wrong it makes you guys take ridicukous positions and then double down on them.

"Oh PHX is SO mean. He wont let us beat him. Lets say he insulted my family! Lets say he lacks class."

LOL guys, take a breath and realize who the people who beging the diesresepct each time are. it isnt me. Go re-read how many times you all told me I was silly to think I could see Calebs talent in videos of him throwing the football. Doesnt that sound silly to you yet?

Uh oh, the Hoge said the same thing a day later. What now?!

But insulting your family? Youve got to be crazy. I would NEVER do that.

[Mongo3451]

It's you.  It's always been you.  Just go away.  You know what you wrote and the context behind it.  Then, you want to cry victim.  Your arrogance and constant need to be understood as right is as annoying as your unabomber length diatribes you send as responses.

[BearFan PHX]

Just now, Mongo3451 said:

It's you.  It's always been you.  Just go away.  You know what you wrote and the context behind it.  Then, you want to cry victim.  Your arrogance and constant need to be understood as right is as annoying as your unabomber length diatribes you send as responses.

bullshit. I did not attack your family. I do not "know what I meant"

Let's examine this lie in excruciating detail so we can see exactly who is the liar here shall we?

YOU SAID
 

On 5/11/2024 at 3:57 PM, Mongo3451 said:

I'll disagree with your disagree.  My eighteen year old son can do that and he's a WR.  You are dead wrong on the accuracy analogy, but dead right on the mechanics.

So you brought your son into this not me.

Then I responded
 

On 5/11/2024 at 4:10 PM, BearFan PHX said:

your eighteen year old son can drop a football into a garbage can from 30 yards away 20 out of 20 times?

Caleb is a highly accurate QB. And you can see it in everything he throws.

And that was all I said. You really think that's out of bounds? Really?

And now to say
 

2 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

It's you.  It's always been you.  Just go away.  You know what you wrote and the context behind it.  Then, you want to cry victim.  Your arrogance and constant need to be understood as right is as annoying as your unabomber length diatribes you send as responses.

sounds a little personal doesn't it? You SURE I'm the jerk here? SURE?

I get that youre all sick of me because I was right about Fields and after all the fighting you just HATED that you lost. And now many of you seek to catch me on something so you can assuage your hurt egos. But that my friends is on YOU.

In this case I posted a clip, took my time to do it so YOU guys could see it too. I figured i was being helpful a good community member. And I said that i was impressed with Calebs accuracy.

That's what this is all about. Imagine. How awful I am.

So no, I did not attack your family, and if you are doubling down that I did i think that reveals more about your anger and need to defeat me than it does about anything Ive said.

Youre butthurt about something and think somehow I need to bow down. Aint gonna happen cupcake - but no your family is off limits - always has been and always will be. Admit you lied.

[killakrzydav]

On 5/11/2024 at 6:57 PM, Mongo3451 said:

I'll disagree with your disagree.  My eighteen year old son can do that and he's a WR.  You are dead wrong on the accuracy analogy, but dead right on the mechanics.

 

Man, this is what lies look like when you gush over one’s kids.  I got a thousand bucks he can’t do it.

[Mongo3451]

Just now, killakrzydav said:

Man, this is what lies look like when you gush over one’s kids.  I got a thousand bucks he can’t do it.

Troll

[Mongo3451]

6 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I get that youre all sick of me because I was right about Fields and after all the fighting you just HATED that you lost. And now many of you seek to catch me on something so you can assuage your hurt egos. But that my friends is on YOU.

No, were just sick of you being the fighty person you accuse others of being.  It's evident because you wanna group me with the Justin crowd, while I was actually on your side.  But here we are.  I won't attempt anymore dialog on the matter.

[BearFan PHX]

No Ill tell you what i think he meant. I think people were saying they were just warm up throws, and they had a lot of air underneath them, so most QBs can make that throw - it's not like its a 40 yard pass on a frozen rope. I get that.

Before this all devolved I even clarified what I meant, that they werent tough throws, he was just so smooth throwing them, and the result was freakishly repeatable. In other word accuracy.

But they (and me too) all agree that these werent like trying to thread a ball into a small window between two defenders.

And if his son plays WR, then Im sure he is athletic. I suspect he added him into the conversation not to claim he was an all pro QB, but to say, even a high school (Im assuming, maybe its college?) player who doesnt play QB can do this.

And hes right. Any QB even at the high school level can make this throw. What I was noting was how incredibly consistent and accurate it was, which i dont think most QBs at any level can do to that level of accuracy.

But people werent listening. And then when I wouldnt agree - when I simply kept my opinion, without being rude they kept on attacking as if the only polite thing to do would be for me to change MY mind.

And when it got personal, I returned serve. And then the fireworks started.

I think you all (or most of you) need to just let the anger go, and read what i write specifically, because i am always trying to talk ONLY about the subject at hand. When that subject becomes personal, then you can bet Im going to act in symmetry. Why wouldnt I?

[BearFan PHX]

12 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

No, were just sick of you being the fighty person you accuse others of being.  It's evident because you wanna group me with the Justin crowd, while I was actually on your side.  But here we are.  I won't attempt anymore dialog on the matter.

Im saying why the group got the idea that I am arrogant and obnoxious. You all knew me for 15 years, but this never came up. Then I was the only fish swimming upstream for a while on the Justin thing. And boy did i take a lot of abuse. Most of it centering on "wait until the offseason and youll see" well i did. I took it and took it and waited. and in the end i was right.

And now there is a concerted effort to try to find me wrong on something. I said Caleb was extra accurate on those throws. And why wouldnt he be? Hes been touted as freakishly accurate. And he is!

That wasnt personal, it wasnt fighting. In fact, I was shocked you didnt all agree. But whatever, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but my disagreeing with them telling me Im wrong is definitely allowed.

And when people get frustrated and go after me, I return serve. it's really not that big a deal. If you dont want to fight with me, then dont start crap. Easy.

P.S. actually now that i remember, it began when I said Leno sucked and people got all mad about that. Thats where the legend of me being such a bully began. Because I saw things from watching film (not the game, but OL FILM) that people werent yet reading in articles. So I was the arrogant know it all saying things you werent hearing anywhere else - an outlier - obviously wrong.

Except Leno sucked. And Fields is a horrible passer (but legendary status runner int he open field), and Adam Hoge said he saw the same thing in Caleb that first day - so I was just early. And I was right too. So thats gotta count for something?

For a while I was a player hater, now Im a Caleb lover apparently. Couldnt it just be that Im early seeing and saying things? If I get a few more right in a row, will you stop assuming Im wrong and saying BS just because you heard it from me first?

I also said Fields should return kicks for the Steelers about a week before anyone said it in the press. Doesnt make me a genius, it just seems kind of obvious. Most of this is/was. Im usually just surprised when I say this stuff that you dont all agree. I have no idea why you dont. To me its right there to be seen.