So I'm watching this game...

[MBM]

...and Ron Turner is being made to look good by poor weather conditions and a REALLY stupid opposing ST coach. Makes me wonder: Is Turner the problem or is it a bad O-line? The O-line is performing well today and Turner's calls have been very good although conservative.

 

I'm just enjoying some early holiday cheer and fun to watch football. Hope the Bears pile it on the Packers to get some frustration out. I'd like to see another 63-7 final score.

[ChileBear]

...and Ron Turner is being made to look good by poor weather conditions and a REALLY stupid opposing ST coach. Makes me wonder: Is Turner the problem or is it a bad O-line? The O-line is performing well today and Turner's calls have been very good although conservative.

 

I'm just enjoying some early holiday cheer and fun to watch football. Hope the Bears pile it on the Packers to get some frustration out. I'd like to see another 63-7 final score.

 

Turner is still a problem. We had first and goal early on and it ended up going over on downs. Turner still sucks! The Oline too, thogh they did okay today.

[MBM]

That was almost a rhetorical question, Chile! Everyone knows both need areas need improvement. My point was, are we being buffaloed by one side's failures that make the other seem worse? Nevertheless, I am thrilled with the sweep and how the TEAM (very important) played today. You could see they were having fun. Kinda like a lot of bad Karma was cast off their shoulders and they just played football like they know how to play it.

[ChileBear]

That was almost a rhetorical question, Chile! Everyone knows both need areas need improvement. My point was, are we being buffaloed by one side's failures that make the other seem worse? Nevertheless, I am thrilled with the sweep and how the TEAM (very important) played today. You could see they were having fun. Kinda like a lot of bad Karma was cast off their shoulders and they just played football like they know how to play it.

 

Yeah, I bet there is a feeling of satisfaction on the team after handing the Puckers their heads. And If Ron was any good as an OC he'd show a bit more creativity in dealing with the Oline problems. He hasn't. Instead, he just sticks to the same ole crap. Today it worked. It hasn't for much of the season. And it appears we agree, in the end.

[Pixote]

Agreed. the problems still need correcting however it was sure a nice Christmas present to all Bear fans (and players) to sweep the Packers.

[brletich]

Turner is still a problem. We had first and goal early on and it ended up going over on downs. Turner still sucks! The Oline too, thogh they did okay today.

 

We turned it over on downs because Moose still can't catch...great call and very good throw from Orton.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

If Turner called games like he did today I wouldn't be calling for his firing. I'm not necessarily looking for an overly creative coach because I think that can get you in trouble, but I'd like someone who was a run oriented coach but also had the ability to throw some creative type ways to get playmakers involved in other ways, while still havinga large focus of the offense being on the run (and I think any team built around its defense should focus largely on the run).

 

I want to say Kyle played very good given the conditions (he out played the greatest to ever play the game at his position), the Bears WR's looked good in the cold, and Turner actually stuck a bit with the run. The thing is, I wonder why Turner didn't do this style of gameplan all season (it isn't like there were many games where the Bears were behind big early). Hell, I long said I don't give a crap if we are running for 2 yards per carry, we still have to continue to run because it keeps opposing defenses semi honest, allows our defense to rest, and helps utilize play action and everything else (plus I think you just have to be able to try and run in football cause you never know what ends up happening).

 

Hell, look at the Pack, they couldn't run to save there lives for about 8 weeks of the season, but they never quit and eventually they turned into a pretty darn good team at running the football.

 

Bottom line I want Ron out, but I will give him credit for calling a good game plan, but I also think the weather forced him to do this (its too bad too, cause this is what I consider Bears style of football and the type of offense I like...ie relatively conservative, but throw in a couple additions wrinkles involving some deeper plays which utilize Rex when he's back as a starter as well a shitload of wrinkles to have Olsen/Clark/Hester involved a lot).

[brletich]

Bottom line I want Ron out, but I will give him credit for calling a good game plan, but I also think the weather forced him to do this (its too bad too, cause this is what I consider Bears style of football and the type of offense I like...ie relatively conservative, but throw in a couple additions wrinkles involving some deeper plays which utilize Rex when he's back as a starter as well a shitload of wrinkles to have Olsen/Clark/Hester involved a lot).

 

I think Turner needs to go too, but he called a solid game today...At least I didn't see Wolfe up the gut from the 1 yard line...

[MBM]

Hell, look at the Pack, they couldn't run to save there lives for about 8 weeks of the season, but they never quit and eventually they turned into a pretty darn good team at running the football.

 

Bottom line I want Ron out, but I will give him credit for calling a good game plan, but I also think the weather forced him to do this (its too bad too, cause this is what I consider Bears style of football and the type of offense I like...ie relatively conservative, but throw in a couple additions wrinkles involving some deeper plays which utilize Rex when he's back as a starter as well a shitload of wrinkles to have Olsen/Clark/Hester involved a lot).

 

I saved these two paragraphs of your because I have some issues with them. Please keep in mind, I am not trying to start something, merely engaging in discourse...

 

The Packers couldn't run early in the season and they DID quit trying eventually and turned to the 5-wide game plans like we saw earlier today. Grant is a product of the pass setting up the run. How productive was he today behind the LOS compared to out in space? The Packers are horribly weak--a farce as leaders of the NFCN--as evidenced by the ass kicking they received by the Bears today. Force them to beat you with the run, it's over.

 

But related to this first argument of yours is the 2nd--running the ball is "Bears Football". The Bears historically have run the ball because that is all they have been able to do on offense. And what has that gotten us? A great bunch of guys with the intials HOF, but one SB winner. And that's the crime because if you look at the history, what would the careers of Casares, Sayers, Payton, and Anderson have been had there been greater emphasis on passing making the offense a more well-rounded vehicle. Offense, for the Bears, has always been the red-headed stepchild. Name great players in Bears history who have played the WR position? Compared to the RB position with the Bears, we are looking at a Pinto vs. a Mercedes! There has not been a consistant effort for the Bears to improve the offense to make the total TEAM better. And when fans like yourself claim that playing Bears football is good, its telling the team "I like seeing you run the ball. Passing is second rate to me."

 

This has to change. Look at the true Monsters of the NFL today...New England, Indianapolis, Dallas...even Green Bay! I don't have the stats, but its easy to say these four teams are definately in the top 10 in passing stats in the league. Where are each in rushing? Lower, statistically, than at passing. I'm not saying the Bears need to abandon the run, but they need to re-examine their thgought process in the draft and their offensive philosophy.

 

If I were the GM, I'd tell Lovie to work with his guys to get the defense together for '08--and back like it was in '06 without a huge change in personnel. I'd be dumping Turner and creating an offensive juggernaut with the new OC--my guy--and there would be a huge turnover on the offensive side and we'd have some guys who play WR that will catch the ball and look to make opposing defenses bleed, will keep opposing offenses off the field, and force the opponents to change their offensive game plan.

[ChileBear]

This has to change. Look at the true Monsters of the NFL today...New England, Indianapolis, Dallas...even Green Bay! I don't have the stats, but its easy to say these four teams are definately in the top 10 in passing stats in the league. Where are each in rushing? Lower, statistically, than at passing. I'm not saying the Bears need to abandon the run, but they need to re-examine their thgought process in the draft and their offensive philosophy.

 

If I were the GM, I'd tell Lovie to work with his guys to get the defense together for '08--and back like it was in '06 without a huge change in personnel. I'd be dumping Turner and creating an offensive juggernaut with the new OC--my guy--and there would be a huge turnover on the offensive side and we'd have some guys who play WR that will catch the ball and look to make opposing defenses bleed, will keep opposing offenses off the field, and force the opponents to change their offensive game plan.

 

you know a few weeks ago Doug Baffone was saying that he wants a top flight QB for the Bears and an O that doesn't need to depend on the D. He wants and O that scores, passes and can win games when the D is missing. He repeated it several times, emphasizing that the NFL now is about scoring points big time with the O and not on building a D first.

With Lovie at the helm I don't see that happening here. And I think we're living in the past in that regard.

[Connorbear]

We turned it over on downs because Moose still can't catch...great call and very good throw from Orton.

 

Exactly. It was a great play call and great execution by Orton. Moose dropped a pass right in his hands. I am tired of this from him. He needs to go.

 

Peace

[brletich]

Exactly. It was a great play call and great execution by Orton. Moose dropped a pass right in his hands. I am tired of this from him. He needs to go.

 

Peace

 

I wonder if he will still try and throw Kyle under the bus like he did his rookie year. All talk and all drops...

[AZ54]

You can cut Moose now as far as I'm concerned. Dropping passes like that mean he has no business being our starter and for the money he's making I don't need him as a backup.

 

I don't care what Buffone says about the league being all about scoring points. This is just the lastest fad. Great offenses come and go (see StL). Great defenses come and go too. The Ravens and Bears have had a lot of success with their great defenses and average offense. Maybe if we had Tommie Harris on the field in the Superbowl we might have won that game. I'm content to continue with the great defense and work on building a good offense to complement them. Add in great special teams, which we have, and we're giving ourselves a great chance to beat anyone.

 

That's the way our team has been setup with Urlacher and Harris being our two best players. The Colts setup their offense first and defense second because of Manning. You go with what you got and right now it's the D.

[azbearsfan]

"I wonder if he will still try and throw Kyle under the bus like he did his rookie year. All talk and all drops..."

 

I thought the exact same thing when he dropped it.

 

 

 

"I don't care what Buffone says about the league being all about scoring points. This is just the lastest fad. Great offenses come and go (see StL). Great defenses come and go too. The Ravens and Bears have had a lot of success with their great defenses and average offense. Maybe if we had Tommie Harris on the field in the Superbowl we might have won that game. I'm content to continue with the great defense and work on building a good offense to complement them. Add in great special teams, which we have, and we're giving ourselves a great chance to beat anyone. "

 

I totally agree with this. I would like us to pattern our offense after the Steelers and Eagles. Those guys run, run , run to set up screens and play actions. That would be perfect for KO. This is great because, as we saw today, it keeps the other teams offense off the field and is a plus in cold weather.

[Adibear]

Exactly. It was a great play call and great execution by Orton. Moose dropped a pass right in his hands. I am tired of this from him. He needs to go.

 

Peace

 

 

yeh we have to call him Moose Droppings....

 

IMO I think he is past his sell by date and we need to move on with him.

[fenom283]

"I wonder if he will still try and throw Kyle under the bus like he did his rookie year. All talk and all drops..."

 

I thought the exact same thing when he dropped it.

"I don't care what Buffone says about the league being all about scoring points. This is just the lastest fad. Great offenses come and go (see StL). Great defenses come and go too. The Ravens and Bears have had a lot of success with their great defenses and average offense. Maybe if we had Tommie Harris on the field in the Superbowl we might have won that game. I'm content to continue with the great defense and work on building a good offense to complement them. Add in great special teams, which we have, and we're giving ourselves a great chance to beat anyone. "

 

I totally agree with this. I would like us to pattern our offense after the Steelers and Eagles. Those guys run, run , run to set up screens and play actions. That would be perfect for KO. This is great because, as we saw today, it keeps the other teams offense off the field and is a plus in cold weather.

 

It looked like after that drop they pulled Moose even though they were running most of the time. Berrian was out there trying to block people. I think its tells of things to come.

[MBM]

"I wonder if he will still try and throw Kyle under the bus like he did his rookie year. All talk and all drops..."

 

I thought the exact same thing when he dropped it.

"I don't care what Buffone says about the league being all about scoring points. This is just the lastest fad. Great offenses come and go (see StL). Great defenses come and go too. The Ravens and Bears have had a lot of success with their great defenses and average offense. Maybe if we had Tommie Harris on the field in the Superbowl we might have won that game. I'm content to continue with the great defense and work on building a good offense to complement them. Add in great special teams, which we have, and we're giving ourselves a great chance to beat anyone. "

 

I totally agree with this. I would like us to pattern our offense after the Steelers and Eagles. Those guys run, run , run to set up screens and play actions. That would be perfect for KO. This is great because, as we saw today, it keeps the other teams offense off the field and is a plus in cold weather.

We'll just agree to disagree on this. You take the Bears' track record of winning over the past 10 years. I'll take the Patriots. Who has the dynasty? Who is in line to create history with a perfect season? Who is in line to continue these accomplishments? Who is stuck in the past and who is looking to the future? Sorry I agree with the "latest fad" since the latest fad includes winning. I'm not opposed to winning via the run, you have to be efffective in that area as well. But to completely disregard the pass as a "bonus" or "extra" is disregarding the state of affairs in today's NFL and is borderline criminal abuse against a fan base.

 

As we've seen in '07, injuries can wipe out a defense quickly and decimate a team. In three weeks, the Bears lost 36% of its starting defense and had another player playing on one leg. You can't plan on having one half of your team strong--that's bad personnel management. Would you go on a long trip in your car after checking the air in only two of the four tires? The Bears have been trying this for years. I am merely suggesting they try to build a COMPLETE team. Perhaps sacrificing some on defense to gain more on offense.

[AZ54]

I didn't say you can have an inept offense with a great defense (see Chicago Bears '05). The point was it's tough to pay the big bucks on both sides of the ball and typically, depending on what falls to you in the draft (or if your GM knows how to pick talent), you tend to have more dominant players on one side or the other. How often does a team have top 5 offense and top 5 defense? Usually it's one side that's top 5 and the other is middle of the road. This year we have two teams with both sides ranked top 5: New England and Indy. One of them is about to make history.

[Pixote]

Depending on the cap ramifications, I would let him go if it would give us additional cap room to go after other needs in FA. He certainly is not indispensable.

[BearFan2000]

The thing about that game is that while watching it, I thought I was watching last years Bears team. This is and was the most complete game this team has put together this year. There was energy, emotion, enthusiasm, and effort. Don't get me wrong the wind had something to do with the way the game went. The Packers are used to lining up 5 wide and spreading the defense and throwing mid to deep passes. That wasn't going to happen Sunday. They were stuck playing the shorter game and and relying on the run. The elements took them out of their comfort zone. We capitolized on that. That said both teams played in the same conditions. Orton seemed to have little trouble throwing the ball through the wind. The Great Favre struggled to complete passes. Packers special teams were an adventure. The thing I like about this was we didn't sit there content to eek out a win because the wheather played into our favor more than Green Bay's. After the first botched punt our special teams coach and players smelled blood and went on the attack. Making for a punter's worst nightmare. The defense fed off of that and the offense did an effective job controlling the clock. Time of posession was huge in this game. We limited their opportunities. It was an enjoyable game to watch and it showed this team still has some pride left and they played hard for 60 min. Even in the last min the D was fighting. I loved seeing this team come out and play with heart. It's so much better than the many gutless performances that we've all seen this year. Next week we finish the season playing another team who has nothing to play for. How ironic that our last game of the season we'll face the Saints and neither of us will be in the playoffs. Last time we met we were fighting it out for the NFC Championship game....

[Adibear]

that game showed that we can do it,we can play as a whole team...shame it came when the season was lost....

[MBM]

The thing I like about this was we didn't sit there content to eek out a win because the wheather played into our favor more than Green Bay's. After the first botched punt our special teams coach and players smelled blood and went on the attack. Making for a punter's worst nightmare. The defense fed off of that and the offense did an effective job controlling the clock.

2K-That is EXACTLY the point I have about the offense I've seen and hate for the Bears. There is no "attack mentality". It's all about "maintain" and "hold on". And this psyche spreads to the other areas of the team and destroys those as well. How often have we seen the offense wilt in the face of the opponent when they had the opportunity to control the game? Under John Shoop, this was the standard M.O. Turner started acting this way himself. For coaching his unit this way, Dave Taub deserves a raise. This is what coaching is all about--seeing opportunities and directing your team towards them.

 

Good catch on this. I missed this point completely until you reminded me of it!

[BearFan2000]

Exactly, the rest of the staff should take the cue from Toub. Every game is going to be different an more times than not it won't follow your script. At any given point you have to be willing to abandon the plan and improvise. Here's where I think our coaching staff is weak. They seem to game plan and but either lack the willingness or the experience/knowlege/confidence to improvise and make the right calls as the game progresses. Our coaches seem to have a set script of plays in their heads and don't want to deviate from that.

 

Makes me question whether they have enough of a grasp what their players are capable of executing or the plays available and therefore lack the confidence to do something different. If this is the case then It makes me also wonder if this "script" is the only plays they work on in practice that week, which would make them less confident in their players to execute plays they didn't practice durring the week. There are people I know who if the situation changes and they have to do something different they feel completely lost and have a hard time adapting when things don't go the way they are used to. It's amazing what some people will do to stay in their comfort zone. In the NFL that won't fly. Every game develops it's own flow and the key is adapting to what's happening on the field. You need to build lots of contingencies into your "plan" in case things don't go your way.

 

The other point about Taub's calls in that game is that he found something that was working and kept doing it. He was going to force Green Bay to come up with an answer and couter act what he was calling. Green Bay never did solve the problem. Toub was more than happy to keep the foot on the excellerator. Point is don't assume that since something worked that they're going to figure out a way to stop it any way so lets stop doing it. That does so many negative things in one move. You show that you have no killer instinct. When you've got a team on the ropes go for the knockout blow. There is nothing more dangerous than a wounded animal. It makes absolutely no sense to let them off the hook to regroup when you have a chance to put them away. We have lost games this year because we didnt' go for the kill and were content to sit on a lead. If you have the chance to score 21+ unanswered and burry your opponent alive... DO IT. Letting them hang around is only asking for them to come back and beat you. A lot of our sucess last season was jumping up on top of our opponents and forcing them play catch up against our defense. With a large lead our Defense got more and more agressive. Another negative is that it is a self indicting move. It shows that you are well aware that other teams know what an adjustment is and are capable of doing it. While at the same time your own staff seems to shun such radical concepts. I've said it before, and I'll say it again it is a looser's mentality. "I'm going to fail, so why try?" "Yeah it worked this time, but they're going to stop me eventually, so let's stop doing that" Winning teams force you to adjust to them, not the other way around.

 

Dave Toub for Bears Coach of the Year!!!