I Heard Some Stuff...

[Mongo3451]

A story from Justin Fields rookie year came out over the weekend.  Andy Dalton was working the white board, trying to help Justin with the offense and looked up and Justin was fixated on his phone.  Evidently Dalton and Foles let him have it, telling him he was on his own.  ESPN 1000

I didn't want to start a jump on Justin thread.  Thought it was interesting though.

 

[BearFan PHX]

I saw the same story. And the story said even after Nagy was gone, Fields didn't want to take coaching from the other QBs.

It's understandable, because the NFL is competitive, and you want to be QB1, but at the same time, you hope guys are wanting to get better any possible way.

I also heard Courtney Cronin saying today that only Waldron and QB coach Kerry Joseph will be coaching Williams (I think she may have forgotten Thomas Brown) so he isnt hearing it from all angles, and can be set in the chain of command so he gets one consistent message.

From that point of view, maybe the whole idea of backup QBs as mentors is a bad one, and Nagy and Getsy put Justin in a bad position?

[Stinger226]

11 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

A story from Justin Fields rookie year came out over the weekend.  Andy Dalton was working the white board, trying to help Justin with the offense and looked up and Justin was fixated on his phone.  Evidently Dalton and Foles let him have it, telling him he was on his own.  ESPN 1000

I didn't want to start a jump on Justin thread.  Thought it was interesting though.

 

Being his rookie year I dont find it to be anything defining, he was not looked on to be the starter. He clearly proved he has a great work ethic, that could have been very early in that year.

[Pixote]

I believe this story will prove to be as questionable as all of the wild rumors about Caleb leading up to the draft.

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

18 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

A story from Justin Fields rookie year came out over the weekend.  Andy Dalton was working the white board, trying to help Justin with the offense and looked up and Justin was fixated on his phone.  Evidently Dalton and Foles let him have it, telling him he was on his own.  ESPN 1000

I didn't want to start a jump on Justin thread.  Thought it was interesting though.

 

I heard this a long time ago but cannot pinpoint when. I didn't know what it was but he didn't listen or take coaching from Dalton well.

  That is today's culture though, people look at their phones on average every 6 minutes.  If it was a problem, that is on the Bears for allowing cell phones.  

[BearFan PHX]

58 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I heard this a long time ago but cannot pinpoint when. I didn't know what it was but he didn't listen or take coaching from Dalton well.

  That is today's culture though, people look at their phones on average every 6 minutes.  If it was a problem, that is on the Bears for allowing cell phones.  

agree. no matter what happened with Justin, or what was his fault, it's on the coaches and GM to create and maintain the culture they need. If you cant control your players it means you are kind of scared of them, and that speaks to a lack of leadership ability in the coaches and GM.

It is possible that they decided to cut Justin loose years ago, and just rode with him while they built the roster. But then the hugs, and the effusive praise wouldnt fit that narrative. So I guess they didnt think they could control him but still wanted to keep and develop him. Strange, because those are contradictory ideas.

In any case, Williams seems to be all in on succeeding, and at least at this point seems to be taking coaching well.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

4 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I heard this a long time ago but cannot pinpoint when. I didn't know what it was but he didn't listen or take coaching from Dalton well.

  That is today's culture though, people look at their phones on average every 6 minutes.  If it was a problem, that is on the Bears for allowing cell phones.  

I had heard some comments about that and I think field(s) might have even implied that. I think it was more a subtle component that sometimes having a vet QB around isn't a good thing.  In this case - I'm going to presume some truth to both sides of the equation, I also don't think Field(s) looking at his phone in this scenario is why he didn't end up being good either.  For whatever reason he just couldn't make that leap during his time with the Bears -> I don't expet him to with the Steelers but his raw tools are still tantalizing and I do believe even if he can't make a material leap, he can still make modest progress in that area and that is good enough to be a mediocre starting QB in this league.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

agree. no matter what happened with Justin, or what was his fault, it's on the coaches and GM to create and maintain the culture they need. If you cant control your players it means you are kind of scared of them, and that speaks to a lack of leadership ability in the coaches and GM.

It is possible that they decided to cut Justin loose years ago, and just rode with him while they built the roster. But then the hugs, and the effusive praise wouldnt fit that narrative. So I guess they didnt think they could control him but still wanted to keep and develop him. Strange, because those are contradictory ideas.

In any case, Williams seems to be all in on succeeding, and at least at this point seems to be taking coaching well.

 

Williams is either going to bust or be really good.  I say that because the stories seem to imply he has that Kobe-esque work ethic.  Like he flat out puts in the work when he's out there and has a desire to be great, not good, not merely okay, not above average, but ELITE.  That drive is going to rub some the wrong way and it could blow up in his face if he struggles and rubs people wrong way getting mad or whatever -> but channeled right - it could lead to true greatness.  

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Williams is either going to bust or be really good.  I say that because the stories seem to imply he has that Kobe-esque work ethic.  Like he flat out puts in the work when he's out there and has a desire to be great, not good, not merely okay, not above average, but ELITE.  That drive is going to rub some the wrong way and it could blow up in his face if he struggles and rubs people wrong way getting mad or whatever -> but channeled right - it could lead to true greatness.  

I totally agree that he is brash and that doesnt fit well if your results are mediocre.

The other side of the argument is that his floor is probably pretty high, so even if he doesn't end up great, he might still be pretty good. I dont want to see that though. Im here for a team that dominates, and it seems like the stars have aligned to give us a good shot at that. Go Bears!

[Stinger226]

There was a lot of Justin Fields activity on X yesterday. I thought it would be negative because of the Foles comments but surprisenly it was Pittsburgh fans posting highlights of JF doing the love. I know this is crazy but sometimes I am. Wouldnt it be ironic if Pitt and the Bears met in the SB and it was JF against CW. I wonder what odds would be on that bet?

[lemonej]

When it comes to Andy Dalton and Nick Foles in both of their previous stops before coming to the Bears it was determined that both wouldn't do well with young QBs. The Bengals got rid of Dalton before they drafted Joe Burrow and the Eagles felt compelled to release their Super Bowl MVP because there was reports of a divide in the locker room about their first round QB Carson Wentz.  

[Pixote]

What I find hard to understand is that they'd confess to this!

Let's look at it this way. 

A GM brings in a veteran QB to mentor his new Rookie QB. A very important position.

The Rookie QB screws up by allowing himself to be distracted by his phone while the veteran QB is providing instruction. (We don't know what the issue was. Playing a game? Received a text message from a hot babe, his wife, or both, LOL. Or maybe a family emergency? Doesn't matter.)

Instead of explaining the importance of paying attention, the veteran scolds him, saying he is now on his own and abandons the rookie.

If I were the GM, I would cut the Veteran and bring in another mentor for my rookie QB.

Yes, I'd be disappointed the rookie was distracted (we still do not know for sure why), but the Veteran failed the rookie and the team.

If this 'rumor' is true, we failed Fields in more ways than play calling, OL, and depth at skill positions.

We gave him an asshole for a mentor.

[Bears4Ever_34]

We've heard rumblings about this kind of stuff ever since Dan Orlovsky criticized his work ethic during the pre-draft process based off the information people were giving him at the time. The most credible report came directly from Josh Lucas, former player personal director under Ryan Pace, who flat out said the relationship between Fields and the other quarterbacks did not work at all.

Who knows how true any of it really is. I tend to believe there's at least a kernel of truth there. Fields has never been a talkative guy. His podium pressers left much to be desired from a charisma and personality standpoint. Sometimes he looked disinterested and agitated even in situations that were supposed to be light-hearted. I always got a weird vibe with him. If any of that carried over into the locker room, it wouldn't surprise me if he came off poorly to certain people.

[Mongo3451]

6 hours ago, Pixote said:

What I find hard to understand is that they'd confess to this!

Let's look at it this way. 

A GM brings in a veteran QB to mentor his new Rookie QB. A very important position.

The Rookie QB screws up by allowing himself to be distracted by his phone while the veteran QB is providing instruction. (We don't know what the issue was. Playing a game? Received a text message from a hot babe, his wife, or both, LOL. Or maybe a family emergency? Doesn't matter.)

Instead of explaining the importance of paying attention, the veteran scolds him, saying he is now on his own and abandons the rookie.

If I were the GM, I would cut the Veteran and bring in another mentor for my rookie QB.

Yes, I'd be disappointed the rookie was distracted (we still do not know for sure why), but the Veteran failed the rookie and the team.

If this 'rumor' is true, we failed Fields in more ways than play calling, OL, and depth at skill positions.

We gave him an asshole for a mentor.

We don't know the extent of the relationship between the three QBs.  I've never heard a bad thing about Dalton or Foles.  IMO, two seasoned veterans vs a rookie QB, tells me that the old fellas wanted their respect and adoration and didn't feel they were getting it.  On Justin's end, he's probably thinking his game is way different than the other two, so why delve into things that didn't match his game.

[Stinger226]

15 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

We don't know the extent of the relationship between the three QBs.  I've never heard a bad thing about Dalton or Foles.  IMO, two seasoned veterans vs a rookie QB, tells me that the old fellas wanted their respect and adoration and didn't feel they were getting it.  On Justin's end, he's probably thinking his game is way different than the other two, so why delve into things that didn't match his game.

I just thinks its a rookie changing his habits in real time. He needed the lesson to focus on football more. 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I just thinks its a rookie changing his habits in real time. He needed the lesson to focus on football more. 

it sounded like purposeful rejection of Dalton and Foles. I always thought Fields was somewhat Cutler-like in his press conferences. He always spoke softly and minimally, and kept his words inside his mouth. I wasnt sure if that was humility, or a lack of respect for the press. When I heard his interview a few months ago on a podcast with former players, his speech patterns were very different, and I felt like that was the real Justin, and he was more likeable then to me too.

I think the looking at his phone thing wasn't a matter of him being distracted, but more disrespecting that Foles or Dalton had anything to teach him. I always thought he was somewhat sullen, but I chalked it up to  me misreading him, and that just being his style. Once I heard him speak differently on the podcast, then i thought it wasn't his style, but keeping them at a distance.

And that's not always bad either. Belichick was a master of that kind of sullen, low speak style in press conferences, and he was doing that purposefully and to good effect. So it's not always a social issue.

I also think that Fields WAS focused on football. He apparently put in tons of work, watching film etc.

I think at the end of it all, he just didnt see the field as a passer, and was probably defensive about that, since nothing was working.

He seems like a nice kid, and I do wish him success. He's a hell of an open field runner. I've compared him to Hester many times before - another great open field runner who didn't really have a position (CB and WR both failed) on the football field other than as a returner.

He may light it up as a returner for Pittsburgh, especially with the new rules, and his superior throwback ability that you dont usually see in returners.

For whatever reason though, he didnt succeed as a passer, and didnt seem to want to take coaching. It might be that Nagy's staff's coaching was awful and was right to resist it too.

[Mongo3451]

5 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

it sounded like purposeful rejection of Dalton and Foles. I always thought Fields was somewhat Cutler-like in his press conferences. He always spoke softly and minimally, and kept his words inside his mouth. I wasnt sure if that was humility, or a lack of respect for the press. When I heard his interview a few months ago on a podcast with former players, his speech patterns were very different, and I felt like that was the real Justin, and he was more likeable then to me too.

I think the looking at his phone thing wasn't a matter of him being distracted, but more disrespecting that Foles or Dalton had anything to teach him. I always thought he was somewhat sullen, but I chalked it up to  me misreading him, and that just being his style. Once I heard him speak differently on the podcast, then i thought it wasn't his style, but keeping them at a distance.

And that's not always bad either. Belichick was a master of that kind of sullen, low speak style in press conferences, and he was doing that purposefully and to good effect. So it's not always a social issue.

I also think that Fields WAS focused on football. He apparently put in tons of work, watching film etc.

Yup.  I believe there was a reason for the admonishment.  No way they nailed him like that on one offense.  If so, that would be very unprofessional.

[BearFan PHX]

5 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Yup.  I believe there was a reason for the admonishment.  No way they nailed him like that on one offense.  If so, that would be very unprofessional.

totally agree. but it's hard to know whether Fields was being egotistical, or he knew the Nagy staff was crazy. Or both

[Stinger226]

i SEEN WANNSTED TALKING ABOUT THE NEW KICKOFF RULE AND FOUND AN INTERESTING TAKE ON IT. INSTEAD OF  A FAST GUY LIKE V JONES, HE THINKS SOMEONE LIKE R JOHNSON WOULD MAKE A BETTER KRer.

 

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

i SEEN WANNSTED TALKING ABOUT THE NEW KICKOFF RULE AND FOUND AN INTERESTING TAKE ON IT. INSTEAD OF  A FAST GUY LIKE V JONES, HE THINKS SOMEONE LIKE R JOHNSON WOULD MAKE A BETTER KRer.

 

That makes sense.

I still think the way this new rule will evolve is unknown to everyone, and I hope it doesn't become a source of too many touchdowns and overtake the rest of the game, but what Wanny said makes a lot of sense based on my understanding of the play as it currently stands.

[adam]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:29 PM, BearFan PHX said:

totally agree. but it's hard to know whether Fields was being egotistical, or he knew the Nagy staff was crazy. Or both

I think we know the answer on both of them as neither are here.

Fields did not improve last year or take the expected leap that everyone, even myself, thought he would take. The one thing that stood out to me amongst a bunch was the fact that Fields could not work with more than one WR. Mooney had 1K yards, has great rapport with Fields on and off the field in 2022, then Moore shows up and Mooney becomes a ghost. People blamed Getsy, but I think that was Fields not being able to hit Mooney if he wasn't the first read. 

In a weird way, Nagy got a fairly quick hook. I didn't care for his play calling, but it's interesting that he got fired with a winning record and his worst season was 6 wins (his only losing season). So Flus is in Year 3 and has yet to match Nagy's 3rd best season or in 2 seasons Flus' 10 wins is still 2 fewer than Nagy's in 2018 alone. 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, adam said:

I think we know the answer on both of them as neither are here.

Fields did not improve last year or take the expected leap that everyone, even myself, thought he would take. The one thing that stood out to me amongst a bunch was the fact that Fields could not work with more than one WR. Mooney had 1K yards, has great rapport with Fields on and off the field in 2022, then Moore shows up and Mooney becomes a ghost. People blamed Getsy, but I think that was Fields not being able to hit Mooney if he wasn't the first read. 

In a weird way, Nagy got a fairly quick hook. I didn't care for his play calling, but it's interesting that he got fired with a winning record and his worst season was 6 wins (his only losing season). So Flus is in Year 3 and has yet to match Nagy's 3rd best season or in 2 seasons Flus' 10 wins is still 2 fewer than Nagy's in 2018 alone. 

and Lovie got fired after a season with a good record too. It's a tough business!

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, adam said:

I think we know the answer on both of them as neither are here.

Fields did not improve last year or take the expected leap that everyone, even myself, thought he would take. The one thing that stood out to me amongst a bunch was the fact that Fields could not work with more than one WR. Mooney had 1K yards, has great rapport with Fields on and off the field in 2022, then Moore shows up and Mooney becomes a ghost. People blamed Getsy, but I think that was Fields not being able to hit Mooney if he wasn't the first read. 

In a weird way, Nagy got a fairly quick hook. I didn't care for his play calling, but it's interesting that he got fired with a winning record and his worst season was 6 wins (his only losing season). So Flus is in Year 3 and has yet to match Nagy's 3rd best season or in 2 seasons Flus' 10 wins is still 2 fewer than Nagy's in 2018 alone. 

Im not sure it was Fields only being able to throw it just to 1 WR. Kmet was very efficent and was 2nd in targets on the team. I think the trust he had in Mooney was lost the more he dropped passes. so he threw to DJ and Kmet because their drop rate was among the best in the league. 

[BearFan PHX]

Just heard two interesting rumors about Getsy from a reputable patreon Bears insider source who is usually right.  In fact, I cant remember a time he's said any inside info that turned out not to be true.

Anyway the rumors are:

1) Getsy wanted to stay with Tyson Bagent after Fields was healed

2) Flus and Getsy did not speak directly to each other all of last year

1 is easy to believe. 2 is incredibly disfunctional if true.

[adam]

10 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Just heard two interesting rumors about Getsy from a reputable patreon Bears insider source who is usually right.  In fact, I cant remember a time he's said any inside info that turned out not to be true.

Anyway the rumors are:

1) Getsy wanted to stay with Tyson Bagent after Fields was healed

2) Flus and Getsy did not speak directly to each other all of last year

1 is easy to believe. 2 is incredibly disfunctional if true.

 

2 - how does that make sense if Getsy wanted to stay with Bagent but they went back to Fields? Did Poles come down and interject and bypass Flus? I highly doubt it. There may have been something they didn't speak to each other about, but I highly doubt they didn't speak to each other all year. With how NFL teams operate, especially on game day with challenges, etc, I don't even know how that is possible. Just say it was, then winning 7 games like that is a borderline miracle.