jason Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 The way I see it, there is only one certainty: Muhsin Muhammed has to either be cut, or take a backseat. Aside from that, here's what I think: -Bernard Berrian makes huge plays, and if the OL didn't stink, maybe the Bears could use more plays that utilize Berrian's speed. -Mark Bradley looks fast, big, strong, and confident every time he gets in the game. It's just too bad that he slept with Lovie's wife, or whatever the heck he did, because he simply can't get out of the doghouse. There is no way he should be behind MuhMuh. -Rashied Davis seems to be a fairly good slot receiver. I have a feeling that if he went to a more prolific offense, he'd end up being the next Wes Welker type. Whenever he gets a chance he makes tough catches and gets good gains. -Devin Hester is clearly the X-Factor, and the reason why Davis should not start. If Hester ever figures out the playbook, and the OL/QB can produce consiistently and efficiently, Hester could easily bust huge gains all over the place. -Haas is, from what everyone has said, as sure-handed as they come, and runs good routes. So, why is MuhMuh still around? To be quite honest, I don't really see a need at WR until the OL and QB gets fixed. The Bears haven't had a consistenly productive WR on the team since Curtis Conway! Of course... -Bobby Wade seems to be doing fine on the Vikings -Bobby Engram seems to be doing well on the Seahawks -Justin Gage seems to be doing well on the Titans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Agreed. Moose should take a paycut or leave. Keyshawn Johnson found out the hard way about finding a suitor to pony up some cash. He's in the studio now. Moose will follow if he's not inexpensive. I think we should add talent to the corps every year. This is no different. I like what we have going into next year, so it would be good to draft a talented project in the later rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Agreed Moose needs to go (especially if Berrian is resigned). We have no idea what the hell Bradley can do after 3 yrs (this is disturbing). Rasheed is a nice special teams player who is at best a 4th or 5th receiver - no way to compare him to Welker. We have no idea what we have in Hass. I would love to see him play but to say the Bears should have cut Moose to play him is a bit absurd. If anything, they should have given him Rasheed's reps for a few games. Please don't mention Gage or Wade in the same statement with Engram. They are average receivers on bad receiving cores. Engram has over 550 career receptions and has been in the league for over 10 yrs. They can't hold his jock. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenom283 Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 To be quite honest, I don't really see a need at WR until the OL and QB gets fixed. The Bears haven't had a consistenly productive WR on the team since Curtis Conway! Moose needs to go but how can you not mention Marty Booker since he left no WR has been even close to productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Moose has been a big dissapoint, but you cut Moose if we loose BB who else have we??? NO the bigger portion of his contract is paid (I believe) we keep him. We have no idea about Bradley or Hass & Hester as a starter instills no confidence in me whatsoever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 If we can resign Berrian at a reasonable price then I'm good with it but he simply is NOT a premier WR and does not deserve that kind of money. I've said it before. He doesn't run great routes, he doesn't block well down field, he doesn't finish his routes to keep his man occupied and his hands are suspect. I just think he's a lazy guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Agreed Moose needs to go (especially if Berrian is resigned). We have no idea what the hell Bradley can do after 3 yrs (this is disturbing). Rasheed is a nice special teams player who is at best a 4th or 5th receiver - no way to compare him to Welker. We have no idea what we have in Hass. I would love to see him play but to say the Bears should have cut Moose to play him is a bit absurd. If anything, they should have given him Rasheed's reps for a few games. Please don't mention Gage or Wade in the same statement with Engram. They are average receivers on bad receiving cores. Engram has over 550 career receptions and has been in the league for over 10 yrs. They can't hold his jock. Peace I wasn't necessarily saying that Moose should be cut because Haas is on the roster. I was saying that Moose should be cut, and this clears up room for Haas to show what he can do. Also, Engram is heads and shoulders above Gage and Wade. However, the three - along with Marty Booker - are WRs that the Bears let go, but seem to be doing well elsewhere. It is no wonder why the Bears have been searching for WR talent for so long - everytime a decent one comes into town, he's not used properly, he gets upset, and the inevitable departure takes place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I wasn't necessarily saying that Moose should be cut because Haas is on the roster. I was saying that Moose should be cut, and this clears up room for Haas to show what he can do. Also, Engram is heads and shoulders above Gage and Wade. However, the three - along with Marty Booker - are WRs that the Bears let go, but seem to be doing well elsewhere. It is no wonder why the Bears have been searching for WR talent for so long - everytime a decent one comes into town, he's not used properly, he gets upset, and the inevitable departure takes place. I really don't see Gage and Wade as decent receivers. I see them as the best in 2 crappy receivers groups. Engram was cut so the Bears could sign Marcus Robinson to a long term deal and that was over six yrs ago. Booker facilitated getting Ogy which, overall, has been worth it. BTW - I wish we still had Engram. He is a great possession receiver which is what we need. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I really don't see Gage and Wade as decent receivers. I see them as the best in 2 crappy receivers groups. Engram was cut so the Bears could sign Marcus Robinson to a long term deal and that was over six yrs ago. Booker facilitated getting Ogy which, overall, has been worth it. BTW - I wish we still had Engram. He is a great possession receiver which is what we need. Peace I think it's too early to tell what to do. Berrian AND Davis are both free agents. I can't see cutting Moose if we end up losing both Berrian and Davis. That would mean that we would be without WRs 1,2, and 3 next year. Unfortunately, I think the decision on Moose needs to be made before free agency because he has a roster bonus due this year. I could see letting him go if we can get Berrian signed before March 1st. If we can't, we'll have to keep him to keep Hester, Hass, and Bradley from being our most experienced receivers in the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I think it's too early to tell what to do. Berrian AND Davis are both free agents. I can't see cutting Moose if we end up losing both Berrian and Davis. That would mean that we would be without WRs 1,2, and 3 next year. Unfortunately, I think the decision on Moose needs to be made before free agency because he has a roster bonus due this year. I could see letting him go if we can get Berrian signed before March 1st. If we can't, we'll have to keep him to keep Hester, Hass, and Bradley from being our most experienced receivers in the offense. I believe Rasheed is a RFA. He will most likely be back for next yr but you really don't want him as one of your top 2 receivers. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I believe Rasheed is a RFA. He will most likely be back for next yr but you really don't want him as one of your top 2 receivers. Peace Well then that makes it even worse. We probably won't know about Davis for sure until sometime in April. The Moose decision will be made in late February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Davis is a decent slot man and backup receiver and special teamer... but he should have no real impact on this team. Offer him a low tender, and if someone else snatches him up, oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LT2_3 Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Davis is a decent slot man and backup receiver and special teamer... but he should have no real impact on this team. Offer him a low tender, and if someone else snatches him up, oh well. Which one? Last Year, the lowest level was $850k and the 2nd lowest was $1.3 million. That will increase a bit this year. In the case of Davis, the lowest tender would get us nothing in return if he's signed away and the 2nd lowest would get us a 2nd rounder. So figure it will be a $500k difference between the two tenders next year. Which do you like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Which one? Last Year, the lowest level was $850k and the 2nd lowest was $1.3 million. That will increase a bit this year. In the case of Davis, the lowest tender would get us nothing in return if he's signed away and the 2nd lowest would get us a 2nd rounder. So figure it will be a $500k difference between the two tenders next year. Which do you like? Give him the 2nd lowest tag. He is valuable enough as a Special Teams players to keep around for 1.5 million next yr. No one will give us a 2nd for him. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Crayton signed an extension. So if you were thinking about going that route... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Crayton signed an extension. So if you were thinking about going that route... With the Crayton signing: Cowboys signed WR Patrick Crayton to a four-year, $14 million contract extension through 2011. The deal includes a $6 million signing bonus. Crayton will get $1 million in 2008, $1.5 million in 2009, $2 million in 2010, and $2.5 million in 2011 with a $1 million escalator. How much more will it take to keep Berrian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 With the Crayton signing: How much more will it take to keep Berrian? And there you have it. Morons like the Cowboys are willing to sign a marginal player like Crayton for serious Jack, and that results in good players wanting even more. And who takes the hit? The fans. The average fans who try to go to one game per year, we take the hit. Pisses me off. I just can't imagine how a guy like Rashied Davis, who is not even one of the team's top 20 players, a guy who could be cut tomorrow and not many would be that upset, is going to get paid somewhere around a million per year. It's absolutely ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 With the Crayton signing: How much more will it take to keep Berrian? This may be a good barometer as to how much it will cost us to keep Berrian. I have heard it said that Berrian may be the top WR FA this off season. If that be the case, he will demand much more than Crayton just received. Even the Patriots, who are frugal when it comes to contracts and have let many a player walk instead of resigning them do to contract demands paid some relatively big $ for players like Stallworth & Walker, both of whom look fantastic in the NEP high octane offense but were not what I would call stellar WRs (good but not stellar) prior to going to NE. Berrian in NE would probably be a Pro Bowler. With 8 Million in bonuses do Stallworth in Feb & Mar if he is to stay in NE do they do as usual and let him walk and then sign Berrian as a FA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 And there you have it. Morons like the Cowboys are willing to sign a marginal player like Crayton for serious Jack, and that results in good players wanting even more. And who takes the hit? The fans. The average fans who try to go to one game per year, we take the hit. Pisses me off. I just can't imagine how a guy like Rashied Davis, who is not even one of the team's top 20 players, a guy who could be cut tomorrow and not many would be that upset, is going to get paid somewhere around a million per year. It's absolutely ridiculous. Crayton 48 catches for 689 yards and seven touchdowns Berrian 67 receptions for 920 yards and four touchdowns You really think Berrian is even better than this guy? And you're calling Crayton marginal? I have watched him and he is alot more physical than Berrian. Berrian has more speed but suspect hands is the equalizer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 You really think Berrian is even better than this guy? And you're calling Crayton marginal? I have watched him and he is alot more physical than Berrian. Berrian has more speed but suspect hands is the equalizer. I would definately say yes but I really don't think you can compare the two. The primary reasons are the Cowboys have consistent QB play (Romo) and a running game. The Bears offense is a mess. Really the issue is what is his value. I don't believe I can answer that at this time. Angelo has a tough offseason ahead. I do not envy him. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 With the Crayton signing: How much more will it take to keep Berrian? MORE. Meaning, I don't know, but I think the Cowboys got a bargain here. I don't expect the Bears to get a similar break, plus, Berrian is better than Crayton. So definitely MORE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 With the Crayton signing: How much more will it take to keep Berrian? That doesn't seem like that bad of a contract. I'd be totally down with giving Berrian similar money. He'd probably ask for a lot more though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 word is Crayton took less than he could have got elsewhere. wanted to stay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 word is Crayton took less than he could have got elsewhere. wanted to stay I could see Berrian getting damn near double the money on the open market. Crayton wouldn't get that much but he could have definitely gotten a lot more. Berrian has put up better numbers without having the ability to be more open (due to playing opposite Owens) and not having consistent QB play (Romo has been one of the best this year). Berrian is hands down a better WR than Crayton, although if the Bears lost Berrian I would have wanted the team to go after Crayton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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