Poles Continues to Amaze Me

[Pixote]

I just read another article on a site I love for unique information I do not see anywhere else on the internet. It always comes across as legitimate and not clickbait.

Ryan Griffin. Have you ever heard of him? I hadn't. Yet, it turns out that this was the guy Poles brought in as a veteran mentor for Caleb instead of having to pay a veteran Quarterback a respectable salary to sit behind him on the bench. 

Griffin has quite a history. Has spent two seasons with Brady, two years with Brees, was a 10 year veteran, and a great locker room leader. An interesting article (and a short and quick read) that proves more than ever, to me, that Poles is quite crafty and thinks outside the box as an innovative GM.

We Finally Know Why Chicago Bears Refuse to Sign a Veteran Backup QB

[Mongo3451]

Love Poles.  After reading the article, I moved on to the others below.  In the Nate Davis write up, it talked about the OL giving up constant pressure throughout camp.  I'm concerned.  Fixing the OL should have been completed by now.

[Pixote]

15 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I'm concerned.  Fixing the OL should have been completed by now.

I couldn't agree more. Now that we have so much invested in our offensive skill positions, we must address this serious issue. I hope Poles will have this under control and we will see a vast improvement in 2024. Next year's draft has to concentrate on OL as its top priority,

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Love Poles.  After reading the article, I moved on to the others below.  In the Nate Davis write up, it talked about the OL giving up constant pressure throughout camp.  I'm concerned.  Fixing the OL should have been completed by now.

Did you catch the Waldron comment about Davis on the Score?  He was asked about Davis missing time and if he is in jeopardy of being demoted. Waldron said Davis is the starter unless injury takes him out. His missing time must be alright with management 

[Mongo3451]

18 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Did you catch the Waldron comment about Davis on the Score?  He was asked about Davis missing time and if he is in jeopardy of being demoted. Waldron said Davis is the starter unless injury takes him out. His missing time must be alright with management 

No, but I did hear Flus talk about availability.  Davis is the best option we have, but has been bad since he got here.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Did you catch the Waldron comment about Davis on the Score?  He was asked about Davis missing time and if he is in jeopardy of being demoted. Waldron said Davis is the starter unless injury takes him out. His missing time must be alright with management 

One truth doesn’t infer the other.  My take on it is that fixing the center position with the best option for Caleb is job one.  If bates wins it outright it’s his and Shelton backs up.   If Shelton wins then we’ve got a proven alternative at RG and we can open up that competition.   If it’s a wash between Bates and Shelton then we go into figuring who our top 5 are which again could mean competition at RG.    Fans are in a rush for answers but reality is we got an extra week of practice we should use that to our best advantage.  

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

One truth doesn’t infer the other.  My take on it is that fixing the center position with the best option for Caleb is job one.  If bates wins it outright it’s his and Shelton backs up.   If Shelton wins then we’ve got a proven alternative at RG and we can open up that competition.   If it’s a wash between Bates and Shelton then we go into figuring who our top 5 are which again could mean competition at RG.    Fans are in a rush for answers but reality is we got an extra week of practice we should use that to our best advantage.  

for sure, and if Davis is doubtful, then we look harder at Connor Williams too. We have options.

[Stinger226]

Poles is building this team- in year 3 we  only a few questions left to fill spots.

LT- Braxton Jones-Larry Borom- Kiwan A.  has exceeded his drafting spot but still needs to improve. ( brought in Kiwan ) in case his development is limited.

LG- Trevon Jenkins is above average but has questions on his health going forward. Ja'Tre Carter-Jerome Carvin-Coleman Shelton-Ryan Bates All in line for 2nd in

OC- Ryan Bates-Colleman Shelton-Doug Kramer   still have questions but enough bodies to make contributions

RG- Nate Davis-Matt Pryor-Bill Murray- Theo Benedet  Big question on Davis but plenty of time to correct behavior. several options for backup

RT- Darnell Wright-Jake Curhan-Avante Collins.  Wright has star potenial but backup still unclear. 

IMO the best 5 will be the starters. Next in order Shelton- Bates at RG- Matt Pryor at several positions-Kiwan once healthy

Overall I think we are better than last year. I think Poles is building the OL without trying to use his top assets to contribute. One- 1st round-one 3rd-one 5th-one 6th-one 7th

He is using assets to bring in playmakers on O and D. I get the importance of the OL and one more year of the rebuild will determine how he is doing.

[Stinger226]

I still think if we win on a high level that there is an opening for Allen to come back if he is a contribtor to that success. With Rome and DJ , Kmet here for 3 yrs or more , this is our core. If Tyler Scott or V. Jones show something this year they are under contract for next year. If we win 9-10 games and Allen is the main dude, Poles can tag him for 1 more year. If Allen gets absorbed in the culture and we win beyond 10 games, he may accept a team friendly deal for a few yrs to be part of a SB run. 

Odds of him being back is 10% IMO but Poles surprises us all the time. Need to see him contribute this yr, he will not be cheap.

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

He is using assets to bring in playmakers on O and D. I get the importance of the OL and one more year of the rebuild will determine how he is doing.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement.  I would've fixed the OL before giving up draft capital for Keenan Allen.  Revisionist history tells us that poor OL play ruins the entire offense.  The last thing we want is to have Caleb's development even slightly hindered by things not being solid up front.  I was pissed he didn't have it fixed last year for Justin, let alone now.  And I am on record, as PHX was with Caleb...

[BearFan PHX]

49 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I couldn't disagree more with this statement.  I would've fixed the OL before giving up draft capital for Keenan Allen.  Revisionist history tells us that poor OL play ruins the entire offense.  The last thing we want is to have Caleb's development even slightly hindered by things not being solid up front.  I was pissed he didn't have it fixed last year for Justin, let alone now.  And I am on record, as PHX was with Caleb...

fair point.

If Poles knew he was getting Odunze in the draft for sure, he probably wouldnt have signed Allen, but he had to make that decision first, and he had to be sure Caleb had targets.

You also have to factor in whether Poles thinks any OL free agents were studs far above who we signed.

But in the abstract, yes, the OL is a bigger problem than having a 3rd great WR, and if you could trade Allen straight up for a stronger OL right now, youd do it.

But the point remains that the OL sounds like it may be a problem, and that isnt good at all.

[adam]

From the Giants Hard Knocks stuff, it looks like Poles primary target in the draft after Caleb was Alt, but once he was drafted, it was Rome. Honestly, I think if Rome was drafted, that Poles would've traded down and then taken an OT. 

My assumption is he goes OL and DL with the first 3 picks next year (1st and 2x 2nds). 

[BearFan PHX]

23 minutes ago, adam said:

From the Giants Hard Knocks stuff, it looks like Poles primary target in the draft after Caleb was Alt, but once he was drafted, it was Rome. Honestly, I think if Rome was drafted, that Poles would've traded down and then taken an OT. 

My assumption is he goes OL and DL with the first 3 picks next year (1st and 2x 2nds). 

I dunno. I think from the 1920 Bears Drive show they wanted Odunze the whole time, and were looking to trade up with the Giants for him.

And I was arguing that an OT was on the table too, but from their own mouths, they had Odunze as their #2 player!

[Mongo3451]

5 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

And I was arguing that an OT was on the table too, but from their own mouths, they had Odunze as their #2 player!

That's what I saw too.  I remember that Kevin Warren was his wise counsel.  Patience was rewarded.

[AZ54]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

That's what I saw too.  I remember that Kevin Warren was his wise counsel.  Patience was rewarded.

that was Ian Cunningham

 

 

 

[BearFan PHX]

Ian for sure, but i remember Warren also saying "see, it was just like we said" I think they are a really good team, the three of them. But for sure Ian Cunningham's input is invaluable.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

This is a passing league and Poles is showing the league how it's done.  Best DB group and now the best WR group. To have that, you need bodies.  Just because they have DJ and Odunze, doesn't mean they can't keep Allen.  Don't be surprised Allen is signed mid- season for 3 years 55 mil, 40 guaranteed.  They have the cap now with only Jenkins worthy of extending.

[Stinger226]

14 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I couldn't disagree more with this statement.  I would've fixed the OL before giving up draft capital for Keenan Allen.  Revisionist history tells us that poor OL play ruins the entire offense.  The last thing we want is to have Caleb's development even slightly hindered by things not being solid up front.  I was pissed he didn't have it fixed last year for Justin, let alone now.  And I am on record, as PHX was with Caleb...

What OL asset are you getting for a 4th round pick? So you are saying you didnt like the Rome pick at 9? You would have drafted a lineman? There are only so many high assets to use. Our next pick was a OT. He traded our 2nd pick for Sweat, another bad idea? Connor Williams was the only OC worth bringing in and he still hasnt signed because of an injury.  He brought in Nate Davis in 2023, was the second biggest contract sighned that yr. It hasnt turned out but he tried. In 2023 he tried to get Mike McGlinchey which would have been a diaster, and then drafted Wright. 

What would you have did different? When you add the OL player, dont forget to subtract the asset he added. 

When he went after OL free agents, he would not over pay for them. i think that is smart decisions. I agree with you on imporance of the OL but had he used our top assets, Sweat, Rome, our DBs would not be here 

This is his third yr of the rebuild, he originally stated it was a 5 yr job, I think he has done well for cap space and player adds.  

 

[Mongo3451]

10 hours ago, AZ54 said:

that was Ian Cunningham

 

 

 

The video I saw was Warren.

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

What OL asset are you getting for a 4th round pick? So you are saying you didnt like the Rome pick at 9? You would have drafted a lineman? There are only so many high assets to use. Our next pick was a OT. He traded our 2nd pick for Sweat, another bad idea? Connor Williams was the only OC worth bringing in and he still hasnt signed because of an injury.  He brought in Nate Davis in 2023, was the second biggest contract sighned that yr. It hasnt turned out but he tried. In 2023 he tried to get Mike McGlinchey which would have been a diaster, and then drafted Wright. 

What would you have did different? When you add the OL player, dont forget to subtract the asset he added. 

When he went after OL free agents, he would not over pay for them. i think that is smart decisions. I agree with you on imporance of the OL but had he used our top assets, Sweat, Rome, our DBs would not be here 

This is his third yr of the rebuild, he originally stated it was a 5 yr job, I think he has done well for cap space and player adds.  

 

Lloyd Cushenberry and Andre James come to mind.  You say fourth rounder, I say 23 million salary.  Don't get me wrong, I love that he got Allen.  What I will argue is that a good center would be more valuable for Williams' overall development.  Problem is, we should have had both.  Poles hates to over pay.  I simply don't think it would have hurt in this situation. 

My whole point is what we've seen in the past.  We get Cutler and we complain that had no weapons, we get weapons, then he gets killed because of JMarcus Webb.  And so on and so on for Trubisky and Fields.

[Stinger226]

53 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Lloyd Cushenberry and Andre James come to mind.  You say fourth rounder, I say 23 million salary.  Don't get me wrong, I love that he got Allen.  What I will argue is that a good center would be more valuable for Williams' overall development.  Problem is, we should have had both.  Poles hates to over pay.  I simply don't think it would have hurt in this situation. 

My whole point is what we've seen in the past.  We get Cutler and we complain that had no weapons, we get weapons, then he gets killed because of JMarcus Webb.  And so on and so on for Trubisky and Fields.

I am just trying to lay  out what Poles is doing, I have always believed in build inside out and then add stars. I give him  this year to see what it turns into. I do agree with not over paying free agents. Cushenberry is getting 50 for the next 4 yrs. I seen one ranking where Cush is ranked 14th, Bates is ranked 25th. Cush is a better player but not sure if he's worth the difference in pay. Connor Williams isnt ranked anywhere (C or G) because he still cant play.

He went after Mike McG in 2023 and I'm glad we didnt get him. He has played terrible since he got paid. (was over rated)  His first year he went after Joseph Notebook and Brian Allen that both ended up injured that year. Also Ryn Bates and lost out. My point he is trying to build the OL without over paying and as much as its still question marks, he had made moves.

Braxton Jones has played well above his draft posiion and this year will clear up how good he will be. He drafted Kiwan for a backup plan.(highly considered prospect). 

Tevin Jenkins injury cycle cwill seal his fate. I hope he stays healthy.

Bates and Shelton are upgrades but nt sure how much, 

Davis needs to be good this year, that remains to be seen.

Wright is a future star. 

I'm not sure exactly what else he could have done other than Cushebberry at 50 mil. He  still could sign Williams but he proably wouldnt play until mid season at best.

 

[BearFan PHX]

5 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Lloyd Cushenberry and Andre James come to mind.  You say fourth rounder, I say 23 million salary.  Don't get me wrong, I love that he got Allen.  What I will argue is that a good center would be more valuable for Williams' overall development.  Problem is, we should have had both.  Poles hates to over pay.  I simply don't think it would have hurt in this situation. 

My whole point is what we've seen in the past.  We get Cutler and we complain that had no weapons, we get weapons, then he gets killed because of JMarcus Webb.  And so on and so on for Trubisky and Fields.

I think your point is correct. I think that if free agency happened after the draft, we'd have possibly skipped Allen in favor of OL.

I think things happened the way they did because we didnt know we would get Odunze at #9 when free agency happened, and we NEEDED to make sure Caleb Williams had weapons.

But yes, a stout OL is worth more than a 3rd great WR to this team at this point, things just didnt work out that way. Hopefully the OL comes along either with guys we have, or more additions.

And a DE

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think your point is correct. I think that if free agency happened after the draft, we'd have possibly skipped Allen in favor of OL.

I think things happened the way they did because we didnt know we would get Odunze at #9 when free agency happened, and we NEEDED to make sure Caleb Williams had weapons.

But yes, a stout OL is worth more than a 3rd great WR to this team at this point, things just didnt work out that way. Hopefully the OL comes along either with guys we have, or more additions.

And a DE

I think that assessment is correct.  Poles wanted to hedge his bet to make sure Williams had good WRs.  Justin’s failure was not on him per se but if Williams fails so will he.  Allen for a 4th was good value in that context even for a one year rental.  

[BearFan PHX]

28 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I think that assessment is correct.  Poles wanted to hedge his bet to make sure Williams had good WRs.  Justin’s failure was not on him per se but if Williams fails so will he.  Allen for a 4th was good value in that context even for a one year rental.  

yup, but for the same reasons youre right that we still need an OL

[DABEARSDABOMB]

7 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I think that assessment is correct.  Poles wanted to hedge his bet to make sure Williams had good WRs.  Justin’s failure was not on him per se but if Williams fails so will he.  Allen for a 4th was good value in that context even for a one year rental.  

Plus if he walks at end of year, you should get comp pick back.