Hear me out on Poles

[adam]

Warning Long Post Incoming

I am starting to think Poles is just a very average GM that got lucky. Just think if the Bears didn't have the #1 pick in 2023? 

He picked Eberflus over a bunch of better options. There were all kinds of problems with other staff members and in less than 3 years, they are already on their 2nd OC, DC, RB Coach and a whole bunch of other coaching positions.

He got rid of players like Montgomery who signed for less than the Bears paid Swift for and Monty is clearly the better RB. He let other players walk like Daniels only to pay someone like Davis. He replaced Mooney with Tyler Scott.  He drafted Gill, to cut him and draft Taylor in the 4th round for Taylor to be worse than Gill thru 3 weeks.

It goes on and on. 

Just take an honest look at his draft picks with Approximate Values, they are not good. Only a few players are exceeding their draft slots, but most are below.

1st - 4th Round Picks:

Gordon - Slot Corner (AV - 7)  -5 AV from Draft Slot 
Brisker - Safety (AV - 9) -2 AV from Draft Slot 
Jones Jr - KR/WR (AV - 3) -5 AV from Draft Slot  (how many games did he lose for the Bears?)
Wright - RT (AV - 8 ) - 0 AV from Draft Slot 
Dexter - DT  (AV - 2) -2 AV from Draft Slot
Stevenson - CB  (AV - 6) +2 AV from Draft Slot
Pickens - DT (AV - 1) -2 AV from Draft Slot (feels like a waste of a pick at this point)
Johnson - RB  (AV - 4) +2 AV from Draft Slot
Scott - WR  (AV - 2)  - 0 AV from Draft Slot (it feels like he has dropped more passes than he has targets)
--------------
Poles is -12AV for drafted players from 2022-23 from rounds 1-4. That is equivalent to the #3 pick in 2023 or Pick#38 from the 2022 draft playing for 2 years. 

Braxton Jones is the only player who has completely exceeded his draft slot out of 21 draft picks from 22-23. You need more players to exceed their draft position in order to improve more than the next team (see MIN for example). Poles has used 13% of his draft capital on Punters.

In 2024 his 4 picks in rounds 1-4:

Williams - QB (no-brainer selection unless you traded down for draft haul and kept Fields)
Odunze - WR (no-brainer when ATL picked Penix)
Amegadjie - OT (1 of 12 players in the top 75 that have yet to appear in a game for their team)
Taylor - P (Currently a bottom 5 punter with a lower Punt Average than Gill had last season)

His 2024 FAs: Swift - Waste of money, Everett - lol, Bates, Byard, Pryor, Owens, Ogbongbemiga, Shelton, Pettis, Martin, Cowart, Curhan. Outside of Byard, is any other player even worth the roster spot at this point? That seems like a lot of misses. Maybe Owens?

He traded for Keenan Allen, and he has missed 85% of the season after 3 weeks. 

How about 2023? Nathan Peterman, Dylan Cole, Donta Foreman, Robert Tonyan, Andrew Billings, PJ Walker, Travis Homer, DeMarcus Walker, Tremaine Edmunds, Nate Davis,  and TJ Edwards. Billings, Edmunds, and Edwards, and to an extent Walker have worked out as they are still here and productive, but guys like Tonyan and Davis actually lost games for the Bears in 2023 because of how bad they played. 

He got fleeced on the Claypool trade and won the Sweat trade. So that seems like a break even, which is not good all things considered.

So here we are after 3 years of the reset. In free agency, Poles has acquired Billings and Edwards who seem to be the only two players that have exceeded their contract values. Edmunds cap hit is $22M. 

For this year's cap, Keenan Allen has a $23M cap hit (2nd on team) and has barely played. Nate Davis has the 6th biggest cap hit and is arguably the worst player on the 53-man roster. DeMarcus Walker is 7th and is a rotational DL at best. Swift is 12th and is a waste of cap space and a roster spot. Everett is 13th and is the same. That is $54M of the cap, 24% of the cap for Allen, Davis, Walker, Swift, and Everett. Plus they gave up a 4th for Allen (4 receptions) and a 4th for Bates (38 snaps).

Between the coaching choices and lack of draft successes, is it really a surprise that this regime has the record that they currently have going into Year 3?

[Mongo3451]

I'm getting there quickly.  For reasons of OL only.  Many unnecessary additions were made that took away from solidifying the most important unit.  The difference between us and the rest of the division is that they have significantly better lines.  Then, we look at Justin being 3-0.  Why?  They invested heavily in their OL.  And they have James Daniels, who should still be on our team. 

We didn't need Swift, Everett or Allen.  Tory Taylor is a weapon, but really.  We didn't need him.  Now, they are having him playing too cute and it's affected his play.

Back to football Poles!  Study the picture...

[adam]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

I'm getting there quickly.  For reasons of OL only.  Many unnecessary additions were made that took away from solidifying the most important unit.  The difference between us and the rest of the division is that they have significantly better lines.  Then, we look at Justin being 3-0.  Why?  They invested heavily in their OL.  And they have James Daniels, who should still be on our team. 

We didn't need Swift, Everett or Allen.  Tory Taylor is a weapon, but really.  We didn't need him.  Now, they are having him playing too cute and it's affected his play.

Back to football Poles!  Study the picture...

Someone made a good point, and I can't remember who said it, but Poles is acquiring OLinemen like himself. They are passive/timid. Outside of Jenkins, every other O-Lineman is a nice guy, and Jenkins was not drafted by Poles. Wright, nice guy, Braxton, nice guy, Shelton, Bates, Davis, all nice guys. We need dawgs on the line.

In 2022, Poles used pick #71 on Velus Jones, who was only good because he was 24 playing against 18 year olds. The next pick was Abraham Lucas, a perennial starter for SEA. Pick #77, Bernhard Raimann, OL for IND, full time starter. Go down a few more picks, there is Dylan Parham, starter for LVR. So Poles passed on 3x starting OL to pick an old gadget WR who could not catch a cold. Brilliant. 

Then when you think there is no way he could do something like that again, in 2023 he drafts Dexter and Stevenson (trading up) with John Michael Schmitz and O'Cryus Torrence on the board. Then he drafted Pickens with Tank Dell and Josh Downs on the board. Come on dude. 

So we get to 2024, only a few picks and OLine is critical. He goes with Amegadjie with Matt Gonclaves, Christian Haynes, Dominic Puni, and Zak Zinter on the board. Those 4 guys went within the next 11 picks and all have started in 3 games this year. Amegadjie has yet to appear. 

How bad does the Taylor pick look now after 3 weeks. The picks right after him, Cade Stover, TE for HOU, Malik Mustapha, DB for SF, and Bucky Irving, RB for TB. All have played in 3 games for their respective teams while Taylor has punted worse than a UDFA punter. Oh and Braelon Allen, RB for NYJ went 12 picks after Taylor.

The league is all about efficiency. Getting the most of out the cap and your draft capital. Poles is doing neither and it shows on the field. 

[BearFan PHX]

I think there is an upside to team chemistry, but i also think Poles places too much value on nice guys, especially on the OL.

I think Poles personal relationships with the players is clouding his judgement? This is what i was trying to say about the hugging Justin. I am VERY glad it didnt stop him from trading Justin, but i still think he needs to be more of an authority figure and less one of the guys.

I also worry that Ian Cunningham is the brains.

Im not ready to turn on poles yet, I think he's done a lot of very good things for us. But he is not infallible by any means.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think there is an upside to team chemistry, but i also think Poles places too much value on nice guys, especially on the OL.

I think Poles personal relationships with the players is clouding his judgement? This is what i was trying to say about the hugging Justin. I am VERY glad it didnt stop him from trading Justin, but i still think he needs to be more of an authority figure and less one of the guys.

I also worry that Ian Cunningham is the brains.

Im not ready to turn on poles yet, I think he's done a lot of very good things for us. But he is not infallible by any means.

I think Poles obtained OL in his own eyes. Medium talent, hard worker, good character and to be developed. He has a 2nd round draft pick that has good tape but has an injury history, (Jenkins), a 1st round RT that everyone sees a high upside. Then his( I can develop him player).Brandon Jones (has played above his draft position), Nate Davis (above average play history) but coasting( bad choice). Bates (over achiever with an injury) jury still out on him. Shelton is a journeyman that I think was brought in as a backup. Kiwan has high upside but came back from surgery and isnt ready yet. Booker is injuried but not looked on as a starter. Ironically our worse players last yr are playing well. Patrick as a OG on a high level offense. Whitehair is an average starter for Raiders that is backed up by JPJ, someone everyone wanted us to draft. 

Everyone wants 1st round starters on the OL. You never see that. Last year part of Texans success was 3 1st round starters already on the line. Everyone has to develop players and we are not there yet. As of now he gets a C- as a grade.

Watch this video.

 

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

I said at the time that I thought he should have been fired the moment he decided to keep Matt Eberflus. Every sane person knew the most logical decision in the moment to make was to reset this coaching staff under a new rookie QB and keep everybody on the same timeline, and yet, here we are repeating history. 

If that wasn't bad enough, they also missed out on Jim Harbaugh, who was the homerun, can't miss coaching candidate of the last decade, and other bright offensive minds in Bobby Slowik or Ben Johnson. It was the absolute worst possible decision the Bears could have made in that situation, and one they may end up regretting forever depending on what ends up happening with Caleb.

[BearFan PHX]

18 minutes ago, Bears4Ever_34 said:

I said at the time that I thought he should have been fired the moment he decided to keep Matt Eberflus. Every sane person knew the most logical decision in the moment to make was to reset this coaching staff under a new rookie QB and keep everybody on the same timeline, and yet, here we are repeating history. 

If that wasn't bad enough, they also missed out on Jim Harbaugh, who was the homerun, can't miss coaching candidate of the last decade, and other bright offensive minds in Bobby Slowik or Ben Johnson. It was the absolute worst possible decision the Bears could have made in that situation, and one they may end up regretting forever depending on what ends up happening with Caleb.

I said something pretty close too. I have to admit Ive liked a lot of what our front office has done. But theyve made some big mistakes too.

I think I give Poles next years offseason to sort out the OL, and I wouldny mind if it was a whole new offensive set of coaches and head coach.

I would keep the defensive coaches, with the blessing of the new HC of course. If he has something else in mind, he IS the HC, and we dont need to Bear him with an arranged marriage

[adam]

So here is the thing, how long does Poles or Eberflus got? Is Poles going to get another coaching hire?

Look at it this way:

I think 3rd Round picks are the best representation of a GMs skill to evaluate talent, because it is after the top 50 "no brainers" but before the drop off in talent at around 100.  3rd Round picks are #64-100 or so with comp picks.

The Bears 3rd Round picks under Poles:
Jones Jr, Pickens, Amegadjie

That is absolutely gross and should be a fireable offense. Poles fleeced himself. Literally negative contributions to the team. It would've been better for him to just skip these picks than to use them and force these guys onto the 53-man. Amegadjie was injured and has been injured, so he may be good, but you don't use a 3rd Round pick on an injured player with a 4th-5th round grade. 

Honestly, the NFL grouping of owners, GMs, and for a big group of coaches feels like corporate America. It is one big self licking ice cream cone. VPs just jump between companies because companies require VP experience to become a VP with them. So the same group just changes hands year after year. They cut staff to make margins look good before they leave, then the bottom falls out and the new guy has nowhere to go but up. It feels like the cap in the NFL. One GM mortgages the future, it doesn't work, so he is fired and moves to a new org, then the new GM gets a fresh slate to have bad earnings for a few years while he cleans up the mess to eventually do the same thing. Rinse repeat. 

I was really excited about Poles, but when you take an honest look at the situation, he continually mismanages everything but one or two no-brainer moves that have made him look like the shrewd GM, when in reality, he just got lucky being in the right place at the right time thanks to Lovie. Please prove me wrong.

[Stinger226]

He deserves to take heat on several moves but no GM wins on every transaction. I look at the overall picture and it is in a plus. We had deep cap issues and one of the worst rosters in the league. In his third yr, he has us on the brink of a good team. This yr will be his good/bad GM season. If we have a winning season, right on schedule, if below that threasehold, he will deserve to be hammered. He siad 4-5 yrs to remake this team, year 3.

I think we are in an early season over reaction. We are 1-2 and every game came down to the last series of every game. Be honest , who thought we were on schedule to blow out teams and be undefeated at this stage? No one but maybe me. 

With a rookie QB this will take more time to get up to speed. Basically groomming CW should be the biggest goal. Winning is the second goal, and thirdly develop the roster. At 1-2 none of those goals should be considered a failure just yet. I want to see what the record is at our bye week, not now. 

[adam]

Did anyone see Daniels passing chart? Does anyone see a trend?

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, adam said:

Did anyone see Daniels passing chart? Does anyone see a trend?

 

He is comfortable throwing right, but he put it to the Bengals at their house.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

For comparison, it is good to see Williams hitting the whole field. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

On 9/22/2024 at 8:55 PM, adam said:

Warning Long Post Incoming

I am starting to think Poles is just a very average GM that got lucky. Just think if the Bears didn't have the #1 pick in 2023? 

He picked Eberflus over a bunch of better options. There were all kinds of problems with other staff members and in less than 3 years, they are already on their 2nd OC, DC, RB Coach and a whole bunch of other coaching positions.

He got rid of players like Montgomery who signed for less than the Bears paid Swift for and Monty is clearly the better RB. He let other players walk like Daniels only to pay someone like Davis. He replaced Mooney with Tyler Scott.  He drafted Gill, to cut him and draft Taylor in the 4th round for Taylor to be worse than Gill thru 3 weeks.

It goes on and on. 

Just take an honest look at his draft picks with Approximate Values, they are not good. Only a few players are exceeding their draft slots, but most are below.

1st - 4th Round Picks:

Gordon - Slot Corner (AV - 7)  -5 AV from Draft Slot 
Brisker - Safety (AV - 9) -2 AV from Draft Slot 
Jones Jr - KR/WR (AV - 3) -5 AV from Draft Slot  (how many games did he lose for the Bears?)
Wright - RT (AV - 8 ) - 0 AV from Draft Slot 
Dexter - DT  (AV - 2) -2 AV from Draft Slot
Stevenson - CB  (AV - 6) +2 AV from Draft Slot
Pickens - DT (AV - 1) -2 AV from Draft Slot (feels like a waste of a pick at this point)
Johnson - RB  (AV - 4) +2 AV from Draft Slot
Scott - WR  (AV - 2)  - 0 AV from Draft Slot (it feels like he has dropped more passes than he has targets)
--------------
Poles is -12AV for drafted players from 2022-23 from rounds 1-4. That is equivalent to the #3 pick in 2023 or Pick#38 from the 2022 draft playing for 2 years. 

Braxton Jones is the only player who has completely exceeded his draft slot out of 21 draft picks from 22-23. You need more players to exceed their draft position in order to improve more than the next team (see MIN for example). Poles has used 13% of his draft capital on Punters.

In 2024 his 4 picks in rounds 1-4:

Williams - QB (no-brainer selection unless you traded down for draft haul and kept Fields)
Odunze - WR (no-brainer when ATL picked Penix)
Amegadjie - OT (1 of 12 players in the top 75 that have yet to appear in a game for their team)
Taylor - P (Currently a bottom 5 punter with a lower Punt Average than Gill had last season)

His 2024 FAs: Swift - Waste of money, Everett - lol, Bates, Byard, Pryor, Owens, Ogbongbemiga, Shelton, Pettis, Martin, Cowart, Curhan. Outside of Byard, is any other player even worth the roster spot at this point? That seems like a lot of misses. Maybe Owens?

He traded for Keenan Allen, and he has missed 85% of the season after 3 weeks. 

How about 2023? Nathan Peterman, Dylan Cole, Donta Foreman, Robert Tonyan, Andrew Billings, PJ Walker, Travis Homer, DeMarcus Walker, Tremaine Edmunds, Nate Davis,  and TJ Edwards. Billings, Edmunds, and Edwards, and to an extent Walker have worked out as they are still here and productive, but guys like Tonyan and Davis actually lost games for the Bears in 2023 because of how bad they played. 

He got fleeced on the Claypool trade and won the Sweat trade. So that seems like a break even, which is not good all things considered.

So here we are after 3 years of the reset. In free agency, Poles has acquired Billings and Edwards who seem to be the only two players that have exceeded their contract values. Edmunds cap hit is $22M. 

For this year's cap, Keenan Allen has a $23M cap hit (2nd on team) and has barely played. Nate Davis has the 6th biggest cap hit and is arguably the worst player on the 53-man roster. DeMarcus Walker is 7th and is a rotational DL at best. Swift is 12th and is a waste of cap space and a roster spot. Everett is 13th and is the same. That is $54M of the cap, 24% of the cap for Allen, Davis, Walker, Swift, and Everett. Plus they gave up a 4th for Allen (4 receptions) and a 4th for Bates (38 snaps).

Between the coaching choices and lack of draft successes, is it really a surprise that this regime has the record that they currently have going into Year 3?

And to add to the X (Twitter) trending topic, how about Darnell Wright vs Jalen Carter.  Wright has regressed and seems lost this year.  He should be excelling and playing near probowl level.  A high first round RT is a luxury when top 10 picks need to be difference makers. 

[Lucky Luciano]

26 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

And to add to the X (Twitter) trending topic, how about Darnell Wright vs Jalen Carter.  Wright has regressed and seems lost this year.  He should be excelling and playing near probowl level.  A high first round RT is a luxury when top 10 picks need to be difference makers. 

from my observation over the decades it is usually the 2nd year that they struggle the most. the assignments by the offense are more complex because he has past the rookie stage. there is game film on them and it takes time for the player to adjust to new schemes against him. by year 3 the dust should be settling and if he is a good player it will show and grow from that point on.

not that worried yet.

[Mongo3451]

Don't get me wrong, I'm still in Poles' corner.  However, this OL thing is the equivalent of Lovie saying "trust me" after he let Chico walk.  There is quite a bit of arrogance to think Poles could invest so little on the OL during a rebuild.  He basically pissed on his territory and said, "this is my domain" in reference to the OL.  Fail fail fail.  Everything else, he's been above average.

[Daventry]

Looking at it from this viewpoint, I would question some decisions.  There were a few offensive linemen that could have been picked up, but weren’t but we picked up Allen.  V Jones is never going to be a good decision, that could have been an offensive lineman.  Lots of other scenarios where offensive line could have been prioritised.  

[adam]

Poles always said they go BPA, but that is hard to believe based on some of the picks like Pickens, Velus, Scott, and Taylor. Those were not BPA picks. 

[BearFan PHX]

Im not happy with the OL either, and when the roster is looking this full, the weaknesses are glaring. I think he deserves next offseason to put it all together.

Said another way, when was the last time you could point to one position group as the problem? usually it was a lot more than that.

Poles has been disciplined, and didnt overpay for players or reach for players and get 4 year deals with older players to win now. Hes got a long term plan, and it's going pretty well.

That said, keeping Eberflus wasnt the best move. Keeping Morgan is a disaster. Shane Waldron has been awful. And a handful of players have been misses too. Mostly free agents. Recent draft picks seem to be OK.

Poles said he wasnt through with the rebuild. I assume he is talking about the OL and depth.

The goal for this season is for Caleb to learn to be an NFL QB. He is going to need more protection for that this year, and moves are coming, like Pryor, Bates and maybe even Kiran Amagonnalearnyourelastnamewhenyoublocksomeone.

We will tinker with RBs too.

But next year is the actual beginning of dominance, and with the right additions on OL I can see it. But this is the year we learn how, even if we are inconsistent. Obviously it has to get better than it has been or it will all implode. But I think we can learn our lessons this year, and make some progress. But yeah we need a bunch of bodies on the OL.

I sure hope Ian Cunningham isnt the reason for all the good stuff.

[Stinger226]

Exactly, Kiran Amagonnalearnyourelastnamewhenyoublocksomeone.
As much as everything isnt working, they are giving him the full playbook, he is responable for line calls, making adjustments. As much as its a mess, it will make him better later in the season as he learns. 

The other option is keep it basic and it would look better. 

I think their doing the right thing. The second half of the season will surpeise everyone.

[adam]

13 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Exactly, Kiran Amagonnalearnyourelastnamewhenyoublocksomeone.
As much as everything isnt working, they are giving him the full playbook, he is responable for line calls, making adjustments. As much as its a mess, it will make him better later in the season as he learns. 

The other option is keep it basic and it would look better. 

I think their doing the right thing. The second half of the season will surpeise everyone.

Also, I don't think it can get any worse than what we have seen. That is a good sign. Some of the other surprise teams are peaking now and will fall back down to earth soon.

Caleb is only going to get better. Rome is only going to get better. So if the line can improve and they can give more touches to Roschon and Herbert, the overall operation will improve. 

It really comes down to 2-3 plays a game that swing the score 10+ points. The offense looks completely different without the dropped passes, that's at least 3 more TDs for Williams in 3 weeks, which would probably equate to 2 more wins.

[Bears4Ever_34]

On 9/24/2024 at 6:23 AM, adam said:

So here is the thing, how long does Poles or Eberflus got? Is Poles going to get another coaching hire?

Look at it this way:

I think 3rd Round picks are the best representation of a GMs skill to evaluate talent, because it is after the top 50 "no brainers" but before the drop off in talent at around 100.  3rd Round picks are #64-100 or so with comp picks.

The Bears 3rd Round picks under Poles:
Jones Jr, Pickens, Amegadjie

That is absolutely gross and should be a fireable offense. Poles fleeced himself. Literally negative contributions to the team. It would've been better for him to just skip these picks than to use them and force these guys onto the 53-man. Amegadjie was injured and has been injured, so he may be good, but you don't use a 3rd Round pick on an injured player with a 4th-5th round grade. 

Honestly, the NFL grouping of owners, GMs, and for a big group of coaches feels like corporate America. It is one big self licking ice cream cone. VPs just jump between companies because companies require VP experience to become a VP with them. So the same group just changes hands year after year. They cut staff to make margins look good before they leave, then the bottom falls out and the new guy has nowhere to go but up. It feels like the cap in the NFL. One GM mortgages the future, it doesn't work, so he is fired and moves to a new org, then the new GM gets a fresh slate to have bad earnings for a few years while he cleans up the mess to eventually do the same thing. Rinse repeat. 

I was really excited about Poles, but when you take an honest look at the situation, he continually mismanages everything but one or two no-brainer moves that have made him look like the shrewd GM, when in reality, he just got lucky being in the right place at the right time thanks to Lovie. Please prove me wrong.

Speaking from what I think the Bears perspective will be and not necessarily mine: I think Poles is safe no matter what happens this year. I think the Eberflus decision will come down to how Caleb plays. If he's still struggling by the end of the season and the Bears miss the playoffs, It would be criminal to not look at an offensive-minded head coach in the off-season. That said, I could also see a scenario where he's brought back if the Bears win 7 games, but Caleb is looking vastly improved by the end of the season. 

Ryan Poles has to be aware of the Bears history of how changing coaches in the middle of a young quarterback's career has had a negative impact on the future. He's going to want to give Eberflus the longest leash possible to avoid repeating the same tired formula that continues to haunt this franchise. A mistake that, again, could have easily been avoided if he'd have just gotten rid of the coach before you drafted the quarterback...

[Bears4Ever_34]

23 hours ago, adam said:

Did anyone see Daniels passing chart? Does anyone see a trend?

 

Lots of short stuff with half field reads. Commanders are going with a conservative approach to Daniels, hoping to expand the playbook as he gains confidence with all the easy stuff. Bears are throwing Caleb into the fire immediately, hoping he'll learn the more advanced stuff faster through his mistakes. The Bears are even giving Caleb what looks to be complete autonomy at the LOS to change plays.

Personally, I'm fine with the Bears approach as long as he's improving with knowing his protections schemes and recognizing the hot reads. If he's still struggling to pick up blitzes, this method could get him killed. However, the hope is that eventually he'll learn enough from those mistakes and reach an advanced level of pocket passing quicker than Daniels, who at some point, will need to show he can be more than a 1 read, take off and run style of quarterback.

 

[AZ54]

Because of my addiction I watch far too many football analysis and breakdown videos.   I was a big proponent of keeping Justin and taking the haul in a trade down scenario.  After just 3 games I’m willing to say I was wrong.   Caleb IMO is already even with and maybe ahead of Justin when it comes to reading defenses.  His arm talent and pocket awareness, which were never in doubt, are very good.

i get all the emotion after a disappointing loss but I was happy to the steady improvement throughout the Colts game.  That upward trajectory has been there from game 1.  
 

Regarding the intent of the OP Poles has not been perfect but no GM has been.  However he did build what is clearly a top 10 or better defense in just 3 years.   The angst is on offense and here I agree he made decisions that were more necessity versus BPA.   At the end of the day he needs to field a football team.  Every GM has to fill out a roster and using third and fourth round picks for depth at positions of need like DT or WR seems logical to me.  

I can easily point to first and second  round draft failures in KC as an example yet that team keeps winning.   Y’all know why.  
 

Somebody needs to fix the Oline blocking assignment issue.  QB performance is trending up.  If those two things happen talent gaps in the roster will look much smaller and more fixable this coming offseason.  Like last year the body of work will decide for me not three games with a new offense and a rookie QB.  
 

 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Because of my addiction I watch far too many football analysis and breakdown videos.   I was a big proponent of keeping Justin and taking the haul in a trade down scenario.  After just 3 games I’m willing to say I was wrong.   Caleb IMO is already even with and maybe ahead of Justin when it comes to reading defenses.  His arm talent and pocket awareness, which were never in doubt, are very good.

i get all the emotion after a disappointing loss but I was happy to the steady improvement throughout the Colts game.  That upward trajectory has been there from game 1.  
 

Regarding the intent of the OP Poles has not been perfect but no GM has been.  However he did build what is clearly a top 10 or better defense in just 3 years.   The angst is on offense and here I agree he made decisions that were more necessity versus BPA.   At the end of the day he needs to field a football team.  Every GM has to fill out a roster and using third and fourth round picks for depth at positions of need like DT or WR seems logical to me.  

I can easily point to first and second  round draft failures in KC as an example yet that team keeps winning.   Y’all know why.  
 

Somebody needs to fix the Oline blocking assignment issue.  QB performance is trending up.  If those two things happen talent gaps in the roster will look much smaller and more fixable this coming offseason.  Like last year the body of work will decide for me not three games with a new offense and a rookie QB.  
 

 

very well said.

I agree that Caleb has been progressing each half of football. We have a real QB, even if we don't have a functioning offense.

It's not like with JF when people pointed to JFs disfunction and said that it wasnt his fault, in this case Caleb IS doing the things we wanted JF to do. We just arent able to sustain a drive or run the football, but play to play, Im glad youre seeing what Im seeing too - which is Caleb doing a lot of good things in the pocket.

The goal if this season was to bring Caleb along to a good NFL QB. That is still happening despite all the chaos. The true window surely opens next year. We were all hoping it'd happen this year - maybe it will, but if it doesnt we are still on schedule.

As for Poles, in my mind Ill give him one more year. He's addressed a number of position groups very well. It's obvious that the OL is lacking. He's made moves there, but hasn't spent a ton of draft capital there yet.

He should get credit for taking Wright over Skoronski, and for finding Braxton Jones. I dont know how to judge him for Ryan Bates at center yet, but we will see that too in time. If Kiran Amagadjie plays his way into the lineup, then suddenly Poles is gonna be looking like he fixed half the line. Next year's picks will almost certainly go to the OL and D line, perhaps to build more depth at CB when contract times comes year after next.

On the downside, I think keeping Eberflus was a mistake, keeping Morgan was weird, and Waldron doesn't seem to be the right choice either.

If I could play this like Madden, Id keep the defensive staff intact, get a new head coach and let him do what he wants to do about the offense.

Poles has made many missteps, but he's also managed to build a pretty solid roster at the same time. No poker player wins ever hand, but the good ones keep showing up at the final table. How Poles handles this next offseason is going to set my opinion of him.

It should be said that the reason Poles is in hot water is precisely because he has done such a good job of building the roster that now our expectations are higher.

Let's see who is starting on the OL in 4 weeks.

[Stinger226]

Both Arizonians had good posts. I will say it's early, and with the progress of CW, we could be a contending team in the very near future.