Rookie WR Class (Best Ever)?

[jason]

8 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Poles and his staff failed at player evaluation in each case, and now we have very little to build on on the OL. Even depth pieces like Pryor, Shelton and Curhan have been awful.

When you look back at Claypool, Velus Jones, Pickens, and others, the pattern emerges: we are not good at player evaluation. Anyone would have known to pick Caleb - that was hardly a test of Poles.

I'd like to fire Poles and bring in a good GM.

 

While I obviously think Williams has better QB skills than Fields, the role of a GM is to win games. And the team overall would likely have been better off keeping Fields, and trading the #1 for a boatload of picks that contained the various missing pieces. Fields had flaws, but teams have won with much worse QBs. 

So Poles failed in two regards. His player evaluation failed, and he also failed in terms of draft capital management.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

10 hours ago, adam said:

I know hindsight is always 20/20, but I keep getting "smartest guy in the room" vibes from Poles. He could've grabbed a Center or a Guard instead of Kiran, Taylor, or even Booker knowing how weak the line was. Kiran was a tackle, who was injured. That is a luxury pick, so was Taylor. That's great when your roster is stacked, but there were players to be had at those picks that would've contributed. Scott instead of Puka. Velus Jones, your 3rd pick ever, is a projected returner who is 3 years older than his competition. How embarrassing.  Passing up on Carter, trading up for Stevenson, and drafting Pickens altogether. What is he thinking?

This. He thinks he is better than he is and thus doesn’t bring the right edge. I don’t think he has what it takes to be a great gym, probably not even a good one. 

[BearFan PHX]

59 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

This. He thinks he is better than he is and thus doesn’t bring the right edge. I don’t think he has what it takes to be a great gym, probably not even a good one. 

and theyre likely to keep him.

the McCaskeys are still finding ways to destroy their grandfathers excellent dream.

[adam]

5 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

and theyre likely to keep him.

the McCaskeys are still finding ways to destroy their grandfathers excellent dream.

Then the only hope is Cunningham and the new Coaching staff have more influence on personnel. 

[adam]

6 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

This. He thinks he is better than he is and thus doesn’t bring the right edge. I don’t think he has what it takes to be a great gym, probably not even a good one. 

It is kinda exhausting, because in a way, Poles was the same way.  The whole Trubisky thing where Poles made it seem like drafting him was some otherworldly achievement. Adam Shaheen in the 2nd round? Kevin White with the following players on the board: Todd Gurley, Andrus Peat, Erik Armstead, Marcus Peters, and DJ Humphries?

Honestly, coaching has been an issue, but missing on 1st and 2nd rounders have killed the Bears over the last 20+ years. It is like the curse of Urlacher's hairline. Look at the 1st and 2nd rounders since him, warning, this may be sensitive to some viewers:

D. Terrell, A. Thomas, M. Colombo, M. Haynes, R. Grossman, C. Tillman (yay), T. Harris (nice), T. Johnson, C. Benson, M. Bradley, D. Manning, D. Hester (woohoo), G. Olsen (traded-lol), D. Bazuin (wtf), C. Williams, M. Forte (cool), No 1st or 2nd rounders for 2 yrs, G. Carimi, S. Paea, S. McClellin, A. Jeffery (traded), K. Long (hurt), J. Bostic, K. Fuller, E. Ferguson, K. White, E. Goldman (lazy), L. Floyd (not resigned), C. Whitehair (ok), M. Trubisky (ugh), A. Shaheen, R. Smith (traded), J. Daniels (no resigned), A. Miller, C. Kmet, J. Johnson (boom), J. Fields (traded), T. Jenkins (hurt).

Tillman, Harris, Hester, Forte, Long, and Fuller are the only players with multiple Pro Bowl appearances (for the Bears). Fuller was drafted a decade ago in 2014.

So I will at least give Poles props that he has not completely shit the bed on these picks: Gordon, Brisker, Wright, Dexter, Stevenson, Williams, and Odunze. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

On 12/30/2024 at 10:30 PM, BearFan PHX said:

and theyre likely to keep him.

the McCaskeys are still finding ways to destroy their grandfathers excellent dream.

I’m not convinced - I think Warren isn’t putting up with this. I don’t know that Warren will do any better, but I’m willing to give him a shot. 

[Stinger226]

On 12/30/2024 at 10:41 PM, jason said:

While I obviously think Williams has better QB skills than Fields, the role of a GM is to win games. And the team overall would likely have been better off keeping Fields, and trading the #1 for a boatload of picks that contained the various missing pieces. Fields had flaws, but teams have won with much worse QBs. 

So Poles failed in two regards. His player evaluation failed, and he also failed in terms of draft capital management.

I think they are going to bring back Poles or they would have already got rid of him. I think they extent him to match the new coach. He doesnt deserve a extention but until the ownership changes we are going to get chaos at the top. I will give him credit for one thing, he has not spent alot of big contracts on bad investments. Davis is the only terrible contract and he has an out in 2025. JJ, DJ Moore, Kmet, and Sweat were all good contracts on good players. As much as Edmunds is not worth what he is paid he is not a terrible player. He had great value with Edwards, Billings, Walker. Drafts has hits and misses. something other teams had we did not was 1st round choices that would be huge buiding blocks of any franchise. We did not have first round picks in 19-20 and 2022. 2017 and 2021 were 
Tribisky and Fields that failed. Thats 5 top picks that should be the strength of the team that Pace failed on. Poles came in here with a bad roster and terrilbe cap space. He gets credit for changing that around. AND the trade that got us Caleb will go down in history as the best Bear trade ever. The only way that goes bad is if Caleb fails and I dont think anyone here thinks that is going to happen.

There is good and bad tied to Poles but he will be back so we dont have a choice but to hope he makes the right choice with the new coach.

[jason]

On 12/30/2024 at 11:28 AM, adam said:

I know hindsight is always 20/20, but I keep getting "smartest guy in the room" vibes from Poles.

It’s like the Bears are simply opposed to selecting the common sense pick.

The common sense formula:

• Great success in college
• Big-time football program
• Consistent production against all opponents
• No injury concerns
• Position of need

[Mongo3451]

3 hours ago, jason said:

It’s like the Bears are simply opposed to selecting the common sense pick.

The commons sense formula:

• Great success in college
• Big-time football program
• Consistent production against all opponents
• No injury concerns
• Position of need

Poles sticks to that pretty well in the first two rounds.  Third round he starts toying around for lightning in a bottle.  I would like for him to stick to the blue bloods for the first four rounds at minimum.  Kiran and the Koala kicker were complete head scratchers, when we had blatant needs on the OL.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

On 12/30/2024 at 10:28 AM, adam said:

 

I know hindsight is always 20/20, but I keep getting "smartest guy in the room" vibes from Poles

 

Yeah hindsight is definitely a help.  Especially give a few short months ago we all thought he was a wizard with all the picks and players he was able to get through what I would consider GM management . Two years ago he was able to capture DJ Moore in a trade for ‘our #1’ and turned that into getting two 1st round picks for last year, one of those being someone else’s #1 overall.  That’s pretty amazing.  What he did with all those picks is certainly up for debate, hence the hindsight view. 

Not sure I agree as much with the ‘smartest guy in the room vibe’.  Wasn’t it Cunnigham that had to talk him off the ledge for wanting to trade a pick to get Odunze?  Allegedly Poles was in a panic that he wouldn’t get him.  That doesn’t read as over-confident to me.  

[Daventry]

One thing is for sure, the offensive line wasn’t addressed well at all.  Very poor, and did we need another WR or an OL more?  Seems very clear that OL was a much greater need.  Too many abject failures;  Claypool, Davis, Jones and others. It’s not good enough.  

[BearFan PHX]

18 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I’m not convinced - I think Warren isn’t putting up with this. I don’t know that Warren will do any better, but I’m willing to give him a shot. 

of course I hope youre right

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Not sure I agree as much with the ‘smartest guy in the room vibe’.  Wasn’t it Cunnigham that had to talk him off the ledge for wanting to trade a pick to get Odunze?  Allegedly Poles was in a panic that he wouldn’t get him.  That doesn’t read as over-confident to me.  

I totally see it the same way, Grizz. I worry Poles isnt the brains, but Cunningham is?

But when adam said he gets "smartest guy int he room" vibes he didnt mean that Poles IS the smartest guy, but that he acts like he is, so that he doesnt have to follow the conventional wisdom that Jason so aptly just described, and thinks he can out-think everyone with moves that are too cute.

I think we are all agreeing