Maxx Crosby...

[Mongo3451]

Maxx keeps getting placed to the Lions in trade rumors.  Second is Chicago.  My question/concern is that he seems to predominantly line up where Montez lines up.  Are there any stat sites or accounting profiles that show off either can dominate from the other side?

[adam]

14 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Maxx keeps getting placed to the Lions in trade rumors.  Second is Chicago.  My question/concern is that he seems to predominantly line up where Montez lines up.  Are there any stat sites or accounting profiles that show off either can dominate from the other side?

Sweat can play both sides. I only know of the breakdown by position, but not by location. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

6 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Maxx keeps getting placed to the Lions in trade rumors.  Second is Chicago.  My question/concern is that he seems to predominantly line up where Montez lines up.  Are there any stat sites or accounting profiles that show off either can dominate from the other side?

That thought is enticing, especially having the two 2nds.  Would Detroit give a 1st? Right now our own 2nd is worth more than Detroits, so if the Bears are interested they can spend the own 2nd or force Detroit to use their 1st. 

[Mongo3451]

26 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

That thought is enticing, especially having the two 2nds.  Would Detroit give a 1st? Right now our own 2nd is worth more than Detroits, so if the Bears are interested they can spend the own 2nd or force Detroit to use their 1st. 

Crosby is easily worth a second round pick.  If he fits our scheme to a tee, it's a one...

[ASHKUM BEAR]

5 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Crosby is easily worth a second round pick.  If he fits our scheme to a tee, it's a one...

Yeah, if detroit figures the Bears to be involved, they probably wouldn't waste the time offering them their 2nd and start off with their 1st.  To be honest, if they can fit him in cap wise, I'd go with our 1st.  But, but, but... they have to still build a top oline. Since I see major needs at G/C, I could be fine losing the 1st rd pick for Maxx and addressing those in the 2nd.

[BearFan PHX]

I would imagine Crosby would command a first, a third AND a player like Herbert or even Booker. Think about the Khalil Mack trade.

For me, that might be too steep a price to pay. Then again, it's a championship defense.

If we could move a 2nd and a 3rd and a player, id do it in a heartbeat. I just really want that #1 pick on the OL.

But if theres a young talented free agent LOT out there, then maybe i could be persuaded. Its a hell of a price, but it'd be a hell of a defensive front too.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Schefter was pretty adamant last week saying that he didn't expect players like Crosby or Garrett to be traded by the deadline. Neither team is dying to get rid of their best player. 

To me, this team has too many holes on the OL to be making such a deal. I think you hold tight and use next off-season to go all in. They are going to need 4 new OL, potentially 5 down the line if Wright continues to underwhelm. Use free agency and that extra 2nd round pick to bolster both sides of the line, and then make a serious run at a SB.

[Mongo3451]

4 hours ago, Bears4Ever_34 said:

Schefter was pretty adamant last week saying that he didn't expect players like Crosby or Garrett to be traded by the deadline. Neither team is dying to get rid of their best player. 

Garrett is another player I'm surprised had not been flashed around.  Honestly, if I'm Garrett, I'd want the heck out of that shit show...

[BearFan PHX]

I think the dead cap hit on Garrett is like 45 million. They cant really trade him this year.

[Stinger226]

Of course we could use an upgrade on the DL but with some flashes from Taylor, Walker playing well and Booker developing, I dont think Poles brings in a huge contract to disrupt the cap situation. We need thatcap space to get some OL next year and resign Allen on a team friendly contract. 

If Braxton doesnt get better, Poles drated Kiwan A. to take his place and Jones becomes the swing tackle. Wright has stuggled but still has a high ceiling. If Jenkins can stay healthy, I think Poles brings him back. We have 2 positions to fill on the OL. Once Bates gets on the field we will see if he is what Poles thinks he is. He is signed for next year also. He can be plugged in ar RG or OC depending on who else comes here. If he adds a FA and drafts a couple OL, our OL will be fine going forward. 

[BearFan PHX]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Of course we could use an upgrade on the DL but with some flashes from Taylor, Walker playing well and Booker developing, I dont think Poles brings in a huge contract to disrupt the cap situation. We need thatcap space to get some OL next year and resign Allen on a team friendly contract. 

If Braxton doesnt get better, Poles drated Kiwan A. to take his place and Jones becomes the swing tackle. Wright has stuggled but still has a high ceiling. If Jenkins can stay healthy, I think Poles brings him back. We have 2 positions to fill on the OL. Once Bates gets on the field we will see if he is what Poles thinks he is. He is signed for next year also. He can be plugged in ar RG or OC depending on who else comes here. If he adds a FA and drafts a couple OL, our OL will be fine going forward. 

I dont see Jenkins coming back. He is talented, but he has too many injury problems.

I expect to see a number of new faces on the OL next year.

The only one who is safe right now is Wright. He will come around I think based on his rookie year film.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

10 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I dont see Jenkins coming back. He is talented, but he has too many injury problems.

I expect to see a number of new faces on the OL next year.

The only one who is safe right now is Wright. He will come around I think based on his rookie year film.

The clips of Jenkins pancaking the Jaquars, especially when he was questionable to play, was impressive 

I do not see a huge turnover on the line, but a gradual one. Bates has not been available due to injury and has played only sparingly in his career, basically one year as a starter since 2019.  I would look at him for depth only. I think Poles keeps Jenkins unless he is too expensive. That puts C, LG, and maybe a LT if a good prospect is available rd1 as finding replacements.

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

The clips of Jenkins pancaking the Jaquars, especially when he was questionable to play, was impressive 

I do not see a huge turnover on the line, but a gradual one. Bates has not been available due to injury and has played only sparingly in his career, basically one year as a starter since 2019.  I would look at him for depth only. I think Poles keeps Jenkins unless he is too expensive. That puts C, LG, and maybe a LT if a good prospect is available rd1 as finding replacements.

No doubt Jenkins is pretty good when healthy. I have seen him make some mistakes too of course, same with Wright, but overall, id call them keepers if it wasnt for Jenkins' history with injuries.

It's about rolling the dice i guess, because you're right, when healthy he's a damn good player. But i think at this point, you can't really bank on him, no matter how cap friendly the price?

But it's just my read on the gamble. There is no medical condition that i am aware of that says he is more likely to be injured again, but his history means that to me, I would move on from him. But you're right too that he's a good player, and there is no guarantee he will be injured again.

[AZ54]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

No doubt Jenkins is pretty good when healthy. I have seen him make some mistakes too of course, same with Wright, but overall, id call them keepers if it wasnt for Jenkins' history with injuries.

It's about rolling the dice i guess, because you're right, when healthy he's a damn good player. But i think at this point, you can't really bank on him, no matter how cap friendly the price?

But it's just my read on the gamble. There is no medical condition that i am aware of that says he is more likely to be injured again, but his history means that to me, I would move on from him. But you're right too that he's a good player, and there is no guarantee he will be injured again.

So far we haven't been able to bank on Jenkins for an entire season.  However, I don't think he is at the top of our problems to focus on replacement right now.  I'd be fine giving him a mid-level 2-3 year deal that gives us time to find his replacement.  It's short enough that he'd be in his prime to seek another big money contract.  If that turned out to be in Chicago because he's playing well that'd be ok too. 

Pre-season PFF had Jenkins ranked 16th overall among OGs. I don't pay for that stuff so I'm not sure where he grades out now.  He had a rough start but lately he seems to be playing in that same range.  Based on that and OTC valuations for LG that's somewhere between $8-10mil/yr.  With the bonus being the deciding factor--- more bonus less $/yr.   

[Mongo3451]

23 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

So far we haven't been able to bank on Jenkins for an entire season.  However, I don't think he is at the top of our problems to focus on replacement right now.  I'd be fine giving him a mid-level 2-3 year deal that gives us time to find his replacement.  It's short enough that he'd be in his prime to seek another big money contract.  If that turned out to be in Chicago because he's playing well that'd be ok too. 

Pre-season PFF had Jenkins ranked 16th overall among OGs. I don't pay for that stuff so I'm not sure where he grades out now.  He had a rough start but lately he seems to be playing in that same range.  Based on that and OTC valuations for LG that's somewhere between $8-10mil/yr.  With the bonus being the deciding factor--- more bonus less $/yr.   

It's crazy how we go from a Maxx Crosby discussion to our OL in these threads.  That's what I love about this site.  

I agree with you philosophy on upgrading the OL, especially Jenkins.  We want improvement, but also don't want to sacrifice depth.  I would much rather draft people that will push Tevin to greatness or to the bench.  If our back up tackle goes from Borom to Jones next year, huge win.  If our OG and OC situation places starters in jeopardy next year, bigger win.  Beyond continuity, depth is everything with the OL.  Big dudes always train and practice better while on notice.

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, AZ54 said:

So far we haven't been able to bank on Jenkins for an entire season.  However, I don't think he is at the top of our problems to focus on replacement right now.  I'd be fine giving him a mid-level 2-3 year deal that gives us time to find his replacement.  It's short enough that he'd be in his prime to seek another big money contract.  If that turned out to be in Chicago because he's playing well that'd be ok too. 

Pre-season PFF had Jenkins ranked 16th overall among OGs. I don't pay for that stuff so I'm not sure where he grades out now.  He had a rough start but lately he seems to be playing in that same range.  Based on that and OTC valuations for LG that's somewhere between $8-10mil/yr.  With the bonus being the deciding factor--- more bonus less $/yr.   

so i think when setting a price for him, and seeing the value etc, what youre saying is good analysis, but for me the problem is that if you think a guy is gonna be hit and miss, playing sometimes and not other times, then youre getting a backup there a bunch of the time, and continuity is lost.

It's almost like you got what you paid for, but instead of a mediocre player, you get a pretty good player but only some of the time.

My personal guess is that Poles will look for a new starter there for next year, and let Jenkins go. It wouldnt be fair to demote Jenkins to a swing player, someone will give him a starting job, and possibly regret it when he misses time.

I wouldn't be shocked to see at least 3 new starters on the OL next year that arent currently on the roster. Basically an overhaul.

Maybe Murray will ascend, or Bates will play well and that will only be 2 players, but Braxton's days are numbered, and Pryor is doing well filling in, but a real right guard will be necessary.

And unless Bates is great, you can add center to the list. It could be 4 new guys. Only Wright is safe to my mind.

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

It's crazy how we go from a Maxx Crosby discussion to our OL in these threads.  That's what I love about this site.  

I agree with you philosophy on upgrading the OL, especially Jenkins.  We want improvement, but also don't want to sacrifice depth.  I would much rather draft people that will push Tevin to greatness or to the bench.  If our back up tackle goes from Borom to Jones next year, huge win.  If our OG and OC situation places starters in jeopardy next year, bigger win.  Beyond continuity, depth is everything with the OL.  Big dudes always train and practice better while on notice.

I totally agree about Braxton becoming depth, but i think Jenkins needs a new deal after this year, and someone will offer him a starting job somewhere?

EDIT - yes he is a free agent after this year. Someone will offer him more than we should. Maybe we will get compensatory picks for losing him?

[Stinger226]

Jenkins injury history will follow him to free agency. I see Poles giving him a 3-20 mil contract with game starts tied to bonuses. He will bring someone in to compete at that spot (rookie?) . Its like the Braxton situation, if you get better you start, if not, here comes Kiwan.

Free agents are sketchy, see Nate Davis, above average player that bombed. He will more likely bring in Billings type players at a small price and roll the dice. He will lean to the draft to find starters in the middle. Bates is signed thru next year so he will start at some point in time but he is a question mark. I think 2 of our first 3 picks are OL. We have to keep in mind we have a QB, when fully developed can make the OL look better with a quick release and quick decisions. 

[Stinger226]

9 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

It's crazy how we go from a Maxx Crosby discussion to our OL in these threads.  That's what I love about this site.  

I agree with you philosophy on upgrading the OL, especially Jenkins.  We want improvement, but also don't want to sacrifice depth.  I would much rather draft people that will push Tevin to greatness or to the bench.  If our back up tackle goes from Borom to Jones next year, huge win.  If our OG and OC situation places starters in jeopardy next year, bigger win.  Beyond continuity, depth is everything with the OL.  Big dudes always train and practice better while on notice.

It pivoted from Crosby because that is a pipe dream and went to spending money on the OL where we need it the most.

[Mongo3451]

9 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I totally agree about Braxton becoming depth, but i think Jenkins needs a new deal after this year, and someone will offer him a starting job somewhere?

EDIT - yes he is a free agent after this year. Someone will offer him more than we should. Maybe we will get compensatory picks for losing him?

I am for Jenkins being our starter but I want at least two, highly drafted, to cull the herd.

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I am for Jenkins being our starter but I want at least two, highly drafted, to cull the herd.

if he can stay healthy, then I agree hes good, but I dont think having a guy who gets injured a lot is a bargain at a lower price, and I dont think that having a backup in the wings is as good as having a good player you can just count on?

[Mongo3451]

27 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

if he can stay healthy, then I agree hes good, but I dont think having a guy who gets injured a lot is a bargain at a lower price, and I dont think that having a backup in the wings is as good as having a good player you can just count on?

I think you are failing to see my point.  I mentioned highly drafted, not backup quality...

[Stinger226]

22 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

if he can stay healthy, then I agree hes good, but I dont think having a guy who gets injured a lot is a bargain at a lower price, and I dont think that having a backup in the wings is as good as having a good player you can just count on?

Nate Davis is the example of a free agent that failed, more player stories of failing that surprise in free agency. If Jenkins plays most of the games going forward, I would bring him back at a team friendly contract. Draft a rookie and have him in place if he keeps getting hurt. There are no top guards available this offseason that are young. The only above average centers is Connor Williams and he isnt playing well. I trust Bill Murray more than who would be available. Draft OLs and sort it out.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

I think you are failing to see my point.  I mentioned highly drafted, not backup quality...

youre right I did misunderstand. Of course i want to see us draft OL, and there will be free agents too. I had misread you to mean that you want to draft two other players for RG, LT or OC, and also keep Jenkins as a starter.

Im just saying that Jenkins' contract ends this year, and if you think he's your real starter for the future, then of course you pay him, but if you dont, I dont think paying him less and keeping him around is as advantageous as it sounds, since you know he's going to get injured again. (saying if you think he wont get inured again then by all means you pay him and keep him)

And also I think another team will offer him a starting job, and I dont think we will or really can?

But yes, youre point about drafting a starting quality player is well taken, I completely agree.

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Im just saying that Jenkins' contract ends this year, and if you think he's your real starter for the future, then of course you pay him, but if you dont, I dont think paying him less and keeping him around is as advantageous as it sounds, since you know he's going to get injured again. (saying if you think he wont get inured again then by all means you pay him and keep him)

He'll be easy to afford.  Being effective and young are both plusses.  The good teams keep guys like him and replace them when the new guy pushes them out.  Once true depth is achieved, the OL will never be a problem.