Week 10 Official Game Thread - NE @ CHI, SUN 11/10, 12PM, CHI -6.5, O/U 39.5

[adam]

This feels like a must-win against a bad team. Flus teams normally win against bad teams at home, so this should be a win and some false hope. Then the remainder of the schedule hits. 

If the team that has (not) shown up for the last two weeks plays the rest of the year out, the NE game may be the final win. SF is getting healthy and SEA is not terrible. I would not be surprised with a 5-12 or 6-11 end of season record. Obviously they can figure things out and a team like GB may rest starters in Week 18, so the Bears could eek out another win or two to get to 7 or 8 wins, but that seems like the absolute ceiling right now. 

 

I will go with Bears 24-13 as I think the defense will play better than they did against ARZ.

[adam]

What sucks about this game is, an average win will tell us nothing. It is the same Bears beating a bad team at home. The only way a win means anything is if they blow them out by 20+ and the offense looks like an actual NFL offense.  

If the Bears lose, Flus and Waldron have to be fired. 4-5 with the easiest schedule in football and 3 straight losses? 

[BearFan PHX]

11 minutes ago, adam said:

What sucks about this game is, an average win will tell us nothing. It is the same Bears beating a bad team at home. The only way a win means anything is if they blow them out by 20+ and the offense looks like an actual NFL offense.  

If the Bears lose, Flus and Waldron have to be fired. 4-5 with the easiest schedule in football and 3 straight losses? 

then the gauntlet of divisional games will clarify all of this. we will know exactly where we are.

Poles BLEW this year with his decision to stay with Eberflus. I said it at the time, and a lot agreed with me. The guy is too loyal, and as a result he doesnt make the moves he should to hold the organizational weaknesses accountable. The Justin hug was an example of what I feared.

Just for the record, Ive really only gone to bat against the flow early here for four things:

Charles Leno sucks
Justin Fields sucks
Matt Eberflus sucks
Poles is too loyal

I know I was early, and got labelled a hater or whatever, but I think time is proving me out.

I am not, for example, calling for Caleb's head, or even Moore's. I'm not even saying we should trade Stevenson.

Fix the head coach and OC, get some OL in here, and let's see where we are.

I still say this season has two goals:

1) Caleb learns to read NFL defenses and get used to the speed of the game.

2) The team gets punched in the mouth and realizes that they arent entitled any wins so theyre hungry.

We are on schedule. Too bad we couldnt be ahead of schedule and get some playoff experience this year, but all the things that are on fire will help clarify things and set us up to be better int he future.

Also, no good head coach wanted this job when Eberflus took it - to captain the teardown. We will have better suitors next year. We could have had them this year, but the Bears dont pay off coaches two years early. Dumb, but it is what it is.

This year is gonna SUCK from here on out. But we still have Caleb Williams and a deep defensive roster. The future is not dead, it just doesnt have Eberflus in it, a year later than it should have is all.

[adam]

The 3rd year is supposed to be pointed up. I don't know if you can say the Bears are trending up. It feels like we are just floating laterally into oblivion. 

The crazy thing is the team has a bunch of vets that were supposed to add leadership. Allen, Lewis, Swift, Kmet, and Moore on offense. Sweat, Billings, Walker, Edmunds, Edwards, Johnson, and Byard on defense. That is a long list of vets to be having accountability issues. 

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, adam said:

The 3rd year is supposed to be pointed up. I don't know if you can say the Bears are trending up. It feels like we are just floating laterally into oblivion. 

The crazy thing is the team has a bunch of vets that were supposed to add leadership. Allen, Lewis, Swift, Kmet, and Moore on offense. Sweat, Billings, Walker, Edmunds, Edwards, Johnson, and Byard on defense. That is a long list of vets to be having accountability issues. 

the roster is trending up. the coaching is holding us back. with a new coaching staff and some more linemen in the trenches there is real reason for hope next year.

I freakin knew it with Eberflus though. Saw all of this coming a mile away. The guy has no leadership skills you can see it in his body language.

[adam]

12 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

the roster is trending up. the coaching is holding us back. with a new coaching staff and some more linemen in the trenches there is real reason for hope next year.

I freakin knew it with Eberflus though. Saw all of this coming a mile away. The guy has no leadership skills you can see it in his body language.

It became very evident in Hard Knocks, and when they captured his post game locker room speeches. He might be a good "teacher" but that always doesn't translate to a good Head Coach. The good teachers are the positional coaches, and at most the coordinators. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

3 hours ago, adam said:

It became very evident in Hard Knocks, and when they captured his post game locker room speeches. He might be a good "teacher" but that always doesn't translate to a good Head Coach. The good teachers are the positional coaches, and at most the coordinators. 

He is a lot like Lovie.  He has the respect of the defensive side of the ball - but he HAS NOT figured out how to handle and manage the other side.  Whether its his choice in coordinators to run or he just doesn't know how to meddle enough on the offensive side to help (but not hurt), but it is a clear gap he has. I think they thought Waldron was going to be that experienced guy who can do it - but it is evident he doesn't have the chops to lead this offense - he probably relied heavily on McVay and Carroll (defensive guy yes - but he was a dynamic and charismatic leader who know where and how to involve himself in the offense) and on his own, it just doesn't work.

Kingsbury is the opposite - I don't know how he will be as a HC - but hindsight 20/20 - it was a massive miss not bringing him over.  Say what you want about him, but he's been in control before and knows how to run an offense.  He's also showing he can run a pretty balanced attack. Now over time - how the league adjusts to his style, etc - we shall see.  But he clearly was the better person to hand the reigns over to you with Eberflus in charge (vs. Waldron).  

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

He is a lot like Lovie.  He has the respect of the defensive side of the ball - but he HAS NOT figured out how to handle and manage the other side.  Whether its his choice in coordinators to run or he just doesn't know how to meddle enough on the offensive side to help (but not hurt), but it is a clear gap he has. I think they thought Waldron was going to be that experienced guy who can do it - but it is evident he doesn't have the chops to lead this offense - he probably relied heavily on McVay and Carroll (defensive guy yes - but he was a dynamic and charismatic leader who know where and how to involve himself in the offense) and on his own, it just doesn't work.

Kingsbury is the opposite - I don't know how he will be as a HC - but hindsight 20/20 - it was a massive miss not bringing him over.  Say what you want about him, but he's been in control before and knows how to run an offense.  He's also showing he can run a pretty balanced attack. Now over time - how the league adjusts to his style, etc - we shall see.  But he clearly was the better person to hand the reigns over to you with Eberflus in charge (vs. Waldron).  

100%

Ben Johnson might be a good choice too. I want to watch some film of his demeanor.

EDIT

OK so after watching film of them, I dunno about Johnson. His game planning looks amazing, but I dunno if his personality screams head coach.

Kingsbury has experience as a head coach and worked with a lot of good QBs over the years - or QBs he made look good anyway, who later looked bad, so even more to his benefit.

I guess I would go with Kingsbury as a HC. I might choose Johnson as an OC over him, but I'm not sure thats the question when looking at a HC.

In either case, I would definitely ask Caleb what he thought about Kingsbury.

[adam]

Game related, it looks like Billings is out for the year with a pec tear, Brisker still has not come out of concussion protocol. Both OTs are more than likely out. So this game is not looking good either. If they can't beat NE, they may not win another game. With the risk of injury, at what point do you go with Bagent?

With the Billings new, Poles and Co knew he would be out before today, thus he could've made a move to add a body to the DL. Buffalo literally signed 2x DTs off waivers today. 

[BearFan PHX]

17 minutes ago, adam said:

Game related, it looks like Billings is out for the year with a pec tear, Brisker still has not come out of concussion protocol. Both OTs are more than likely out. So this game is not looking good either. If they can't beat NE, they may not win another game. With the risk of injury, at what point do you go with Bagent?

With the Billings new, Poles and Co knew he would be out before today, thus he could've made a move to add a body to the DL. Buffalo literally signed 2x DTs off waivers today. 

wow. that is straight up malpractice.

[50england50]

My biggest worry going into this game and the rest of the season is Caleb seems to be trending down. I was happy with his game in London but he has fallen off the cliff since. The last 2 games he has has been terrible. Although we lost to Washington on a hail Mary play we can't consistently win with how he played. I'm hoping he starts showing something soon because at this point I'm worried we have picked someone who is not much better than Fields. 

I'm interested in knowing everyone’s view now he has played 8 games. Especially from Bear Fan PHX who is his most ardent admirer. 

 

[BearFan PHX]

29 minutes ago, 50england50 said:

My biggest worry going into this game and the rest of the season is Caleb seems to be trending down. I was happy with his game in London but he has fallen off the cliff since. The last 2 games he has has been terrible. Although we lost to Washington on a hail Mary play we can't consistently win with how he played. I'm hoping he starts showing something soon because at this point I'm worried we have picked someone who is not much better than Fields. 

I'm interested in knowing everyone’s view now he has played 8 games. Especially from Bear Fan PHX who is his most ardent admirer. 

 

I think Caleb is doing fine. What I see is a guy doing the best he can with what he's got. In sum of course the offense has been awful, so no one deserves congratulations for that I agree. But i see him making reads, moving safeties etc.

To me, the biggest problem has been getting away from the run on first down and presnap penalties - both of which put us behind the chains, and that puts caleb in 3rd and long situations where he has to make something happen. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesnt, and it looks like crisis football. But that's the situation Caleb's in. We throw too much, and we throw too much when the defense knows they dont have to play the run. That makes any QB look bad.

And then there is the OL.

Now, does that mean I think hes awesome and nothing is his fault? Not at all. He is still a rookie. He misses things, and overreads players who might jump a ball, and in doing so he passes by open guys. I think you can give him props for not throwing a lot of interceptions, but on the flip side, he should pull the trigger a little more. And I believe in time he will.

So while theres more than enough blame to go around, I still think he is going to do special things in the league. If I could keep Caleb, or trade him straight up for Daniels right now, I would absolutely stay with Caleb. Now Waldron for Kingsbury? Thats a no brainer. Hell I'd trade Waldron for a pencil. lol

[BearFan PHX]

I'll also add that i am a little concerned with Calebs deep ball accuracy.

[adam]

10 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I'll also add that i am a little concerned with Calebs deep ball accuracy.

At least he acknowledged it in the last press conference. Someone asked him about his accuracy issues and he is aware of them. So we will see. That is a better answer than "what issues".

Here are his comments:

 

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

5 hours ago, adam said:

At least he acknowledged it in the last press conference. Someone asked him about his accuracy issues and he is aware of them. So we will see. That is a better answer than "what issues".

Here are his comments:

 

 

Listened to that. He said they need more reps in practice. He wants looks with different coverages.  That had me wondering what that has to do with his accuracy.  But I did take it as a jab at coaching. 

[BearFan PHX]

42 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Listened to that. He said they need more reps in practice. He wants looks with different coverages.  That had me wondering what that has to do with his accuracy.  But I did take it as a jab at coaching. 

its definitely a jab at coaching, and some kind of admission that the long ball is an issue for sure too.

Not sure what it means tho. Stay after and throw a bunch of long balls with some receivers.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

its definitely a jab at coaching, and some kind of admission that the long ball is an issue for sure too.

Not sure what it means tho. Stay after and throw a bunch of long balls with some receivers.

But he wants looks with the D out there.  And he want to see those routes against different coverages

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

But he wants looks with the D out there.  And he want to see those routes against different coverages

thats totally legit too of course. and whatever he wants he should get and not have to ask for in the press!

Im just saying I also see him missing on long balls a lot, and he could stay after practice and get some of those in too. So while I totally have no problem criticising Eberflus for all sorts of things, some of the deep ball accuracy problem is just on Caleb, or Caleb and the WRs just getting in reps. If Caleb is nailing most long ball throws in practice without a defense, then I am willing to say I've misunderstood of course. But I have a feeling that isnt the case, but I couldnt possibly know.

I just think some of it is that Caleb isnt that accurate on the long ball the way Justin and Daniels are. And I'm ok with that if he gets everything else working on a high level. But if he can improve it, he should.

[Stinger226]

Clearly the offense is out of sycn, Its a combination of play calling, coaching decisions, injuries are starting to jack the Ol, and CW is headed in the wrong direction. I seen where he leads the league in miss rate with WRs. 39.4 %, it just might be to DJ Moore, that's who they were talking  about and they said it was one of the worse in the league.

 If CW plays better, the play calling looks better  and we actually look like a legitmate offense. We need to run the ball, lots of first downs and CW can make a few big plays.

The D now has injuries and we now have to rely on offense.

 

[BearFan PHX]

3 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

We need to run the ball, lots of first downs

 

This is the key, and has been for weeks!

[Stinger226]

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

thats totally legit too of course. and whatever he wants he should get and not have to ask for in the press!

Im just saying I also see him missing on long balls a lot, and he could stay after practice and get some of those in too. So while I totally have no problem criticising Eberflus for all sorts of things, some of the deep ball accuracy problem is just on Caleb, or Caleb and the WRs just getting in reps. If Caleb is nailing most long ball throws in practice without a defense, then I am willing to say I've misunderstood of course. But I have a feeling that isnt the case, but I couldnt possibly know.

I just think some of it is that Caleb isnt that accurate on the long ball the way Justin and Daniels are. And I'm ok with that if he gets everything else working on a high level. But if he can improve it, he should.

I was thinking accuracy not really the long ball, but he does need a lot of practice there and needs to make that a strong part of his game too. 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I was thinking accuracy not really the long ball, but he does need a lot of practice there and needs to make that a strong part of his game too. 

yes his regular accuracy I think in watching film has been about trying to throw around guys pressuring him. Hes usually pretty accurate, so i think that will clean up if he gets more protection.

But long ball was questionable in college too. Lots of misses on film. And Im ok if he doesnt have that deep deep threat, as long as he operates everything else efficiently Ill take it.

Justin for example, had a GREAT long ball. It was one of the things he did best. Hopefully Caleb can fix that, but I agree with you, the shorter accuracy has to get better, and personally i think it will if he has protection.

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

 

that video is wrong in my opinion. PFF stats, then hes talking about 3 second holding the ball (I timed it it was 2.6) but its a 5 step drop so of course it takes longer. And you need to see the all 22 to know if anyone was open.

If you watch the film the OL has been trash a lot. I dont buy that video at all. Not sure who the guy posting it even is?

[Stinger226]

21 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

that video is wrong in my opinion. PFF stats, then hes talking about 3 second holding the ball (I timed it it was 2.6) but its a 5 step drop so of course it takes longer. And you need to see the all 22 to know if anyone was open.

If you watch the film the OL has been trash a lot. I dont buy that video at all. Not sure who the guy posting it even is?

Its just someones opinion, doesnt mean their right. They were not good but at least showed up in the 3 game winning streak. Now injuries has made them terrible. Looks 

Borom/LT   (bad but healthy now), guess its better than a PS call up. Jake Curhan as backup?

Jenkins/LG  cross your fingers he stays healthy. Kramer is the backup?

Shelton/C  the very average player is now  the foundation of our line. Kramer

Bates/RG   I think he comes back now, has been practicing. Kramer or Davis as backup?

Pryor/RT  I think he moves here and Curhan as backup.

The best think we can do is run the ball, easier for the line to adapt to NE doesnt have a lot of talent there.

You can have 2 TE scheme and help chip the ends.

Simplify it for Caleb, he is 8th in the league on holding the ball  time, quick throws, roll him out, give him two reads or run. He clearly will be in trouble trying to make 4 reads with a lousy line. Play action if the running game is working. The only deep threat he has a connection with is Odunze, so put DJ at the Slot. His big game last yr was wihen played the slot.