The Demise of the Defense

[Stinger226]

The defense has been faultering lately but over all in the season it is still in the upper end of the league. Considering the lack of offense in many games, they showed fatige at the end of the game. Begining the yr Pickens was injured and just starting getting snaps the last few games. Sweat and Darrell Taylor have been fighting injuries most of the yr. Terrell Smith missed most of the season and Jacob Martin started the season on IR. Injuries are part of the game but only being 2 and a1/2 seasons into a complete rebuild, the roster in not up to speed yet. Kyler Gordon was out several games also.

We have missed Brisker 7 games now and Billings is gone for the yr starting on Nov 7th. This two are key members that has affected our performances. 

After the Stevenson mishap in the Washington games,  he has been going downhill, only played 25% of snaps in the last game. He'e a very talented player with immaturity issues. He'll need to start fresh next yr with a new coach to prove his worth to.

Pickens came into the season with the same upgraded body as Dexter did and just is now getting up to speed. Dexter started out strong but has stuggled w/o Billings and the Sweat injuries. 

The defence will probably be middle of the road considering Billings is out for the yr and Brisker is out for at least more games. 

As far as next yr Poles will add a couple assets to line we can get back up to being a high end defense like we started out.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

They are so close yet so far away.  I am not sure if the personal we have will even fit a new regimes vision if Kevin Warren decides to keep it or tear it apart.  To be honest, our 2025 draft class should be rich but the talent is not that strong this year and rookies normally do not make that big of a difference year 1. 

[BearFan PHX]

28 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

They are so close yet so far away.  I am not sure if the personal we have will even fit a new regimes vision if Kevin Warren decides to keep it or tear it apart.  To be honest, our 2025 draft class should be rich but the talent is not that strong this year and rookies normally do not make that big of a difference year 1. 

keeping Eberflus in this past offseason was such a bad decision, and it's impacting everything else now and the timeline going forward.

And if we whiff on the next coaching hire, Caleb's career, or at least his career in Chicago, is destroyed and none of this will have meant anything.

It was such a colossal mistake. If we limp along with loyalty to Poles etc, then we get what we deserve - even if we fire Poles in 2 years it'll be another 20 years of futility before we could get another real QB and try to put a team around him.

If you're not furious at Poles now, you havent thought through the implications of all of this.

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

keeping Eberflus in this past offseason was such a bad decision, and it's impacting everything else now and the timeline going forward.

And if we whiff on the next coaching hire, Caleb's career, or at least his career in Chicago, is destroyed and none of this will have meant anything.

It was such a colossal mistake. If we limp along with loyalty to Poles etc, then we get what we deserve - even if we fire Poles in 2 years it'll be another 20 years of futility before we could get another real QB and try to put a team around him.

If you're not furious at Poles now, you havent thought through the implications of all of this.

Every hire can turn out bad and changing everything every 3 yrs is a bad idea. Flus will be gone AND Poles will get his 4 or 5 yrs he said it will take to make a complete rebuild work. Yes he should have got rid of Flus last yr but he  seen the defense growing and we finished 5-3 with 3 losses we should have won. He figured a different OC and Caleb would put us in a winning season. Hindsight is a great perspective but he didnt have that advantage. 

Poles has made many mistakes, find me a first time GM that has everything go right? I think he gets 2 more yrs to do what he said he was going to do.

Drafted Caleb Williams when he could have stayed with Fields and added assets on the OL and DL. We could have had more wins right now had he choose that direction. 

Brought in DJ Moore-Keenan Allen-Monteze Sweat-T Edmunds- TJ Edwards-D Walker-Swift-Billings, these are all core members. Missed on Nate Davis-Claypool.

Added core college players Brisker- Gordon-Wright-Odunze-Sanborn-Tory Taylor-R Johnson-B Jones-Dexter. There are several 1st and 2 yr palyers that have yet to prove themselves. 

We have great cap space giving team friendly deals to JJ-Kmet-Sweat-DJ Moore. big misses on V Jones-Dominicic Robinson. (only counted 4th or higher).

The most important key is winning and he is one year away from that. His biggest mistake was keeping Flus which affected everything else. You were right stating that last yr. 

He will be remembered for the huge team changing trade that ended up getting us Caleb Williams and getting us out of cap hell.

[adam]

The weirdest thing about the defense seems that the problems are mainly scheme outside of Stevenson shitting the bed. When you only rush 4 and play soft coverage, you are playing the most predictable type of defense that good OCs can dice up.  Flus' defense comes down to forcing the offense to make routine plays over and over. Good teams can easily do this, it is like playing in the preseason with vanilla defenses. Unless you have elite talent that can beat 1v1 consistently, the defense is average at best. 

[BearFan PHX]

6 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Every hire can turn out bad and changing everything every 3 yrs is a bad idea.

changing things when they are not good enough until they are is what it's all about.

Keeping continuity with failure is a bad idea.

Plus you dont lose the roster when you change GMs? It's not a start over, it's just a new and hopefully better captain.

[BearFan PHX]

5 hours ago, adam said:

The weirdest thing about the defense seems that the problems are mainly scheme outside of Stevenson shitting the bed. When you only rush 4 and play soft coverage, you are playing the most predictable type of defense that good OCs can dice up.  Flus' defense comes down to forcing the offense to make routine plays over and over. Good teams can easily do this, it is like playing in the preseason with vanilla defenses. Unless you have elite talent that can beat 1v1 consistently, the defense is average at best. 

I totally agree. In fact, the reason they've looked so good is due to the talent of the players. Like Caleb, they have done good things in spite of the coaching.

[Stinger226]

10 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

changing things when they are not good enough until they are is what it's all about.

Keeping continuity with failure is a bad idea.

Plus you dont lose the roster when you change GMs? It's not a start over, it's just a new and hopefully better captain.

If 2 and 1/2 yrs is all a new regime gets good luck with ever getting a winner. We didnt hire Harbaugh which could do that, Belichek? Do you really think the Bears would do that? Matt Nagy was the hot OC the year he got hired, 2018 he went 12-4 coach of the year. It didnt last. He won because the defense was great that year. Ryan Pace screwed up the roster and put us in cap hell with aging vets. 

Pace came in with a plan to make us a consistant winner. He did a complete rebuild to fix this team, his first year was never going to win. His second yr he finally had a first round pick and starting to rebuild the roster.  With extra draft capital he got us to a 5-3 record at the end of the year, improvement. Then he moved on from Fields and drafted a potenial top 5 QB knowing he would have some growing pains. We would have a better record right now with Fields (IMO), he would have traded the pick for a bundle and added 4 to 5 OL and DL and our team would have performed better. He believed in Caleb and here we are but ( the most important issue was to develop Caleb). He stayed with a coach that has proven to not be good. He srewed that up, he will correct that . Caleb now is in a better position to grow with Brown, that's very obvious. So we may win a few more games but next year with good cap space and 4 top 100 picks, he will fix the trenches. Has he made mistakes yes but the arrow is pointing up. He told George give me 5 yrs, its 2 and 1/2 right now. He will be here next year and have no doubt we will be a very good team.

 

[adam]

It is a challenge, do you try to keep continuity in hopes of improvement, or do you start all over hoping for greener pastures?

I think in football, the standard has been set. 3 years for a rebuild should equate to the playoffs. Right now we are in Year 3 of the rebuild and the team is 4-7 with one of the easiest schedules in football. We are now 45 games into the rebuild and are closer to the worst team (2 games) in the NFL than we are to a playoff spot (3 games). 

Right now the Bears have better odds at a top 10 pick than they do to finish with a winning record. 

Last year they were a 10 win team that won 7 games. This year, they are a 7 win team that has won 4 games. 

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, adam said:

It is a challenge, do you try to keep continuity in hopes of improvement, or do you start all over hoping for greener pastures?

I think in football, the standard has been set. 3 years for a rebuild should equate to the playoffs. Right now we are in Year 3 of the rebuild and the team is 4-7 with one of the easiest schedules in football. We are now 45 games into the rebuild and are closer to the worst team (2 games) in the NFL than we are to a playoff spot (3 games). 

Right now the Bears have better odds at a top 10 pick than they do to finish with a winning record. 

Last year they were a 10 win team that won 7 games. This year, they are a 7 win team that has won 4 games. 

I'll have to look up the stats to see that 3 yrs produces playoffs for most teams. Detroit and Texans did it but trying to find what other teams did.

Houston had the advantage of trading Watson for a haul, 3 1sts a 3rd and 2 -4ths. In 2020-2021-2022  they had top 10 picks  because of their record which produced a ton of high picks to help their 2023 season.

We didnt have first round picks in 2019, 2020, 2022. In 2021 we draft Fields(wasted under Pace). Poles has had 3 first round picks in 3 yrs and one was Caleb.

Detriot traded Stafford and have had 8  first round picks since 2019.

Everything can not be viewed equal. Houston and Detroit got built using first round picks, Poles has only had 3 since he's been here and inherited a terrible roster with no cap space. 

[BearFan PHX]

you cant just take any group of people and give them 3 or 4 or 5 years and expect the result to be a championship. Winners are rare. Every year 31 teams do not win the superbowl and only 1 does.

When your group is showing that they are not great, you move on from them.

I do not understand this "give em another chance" crap.

I want to win, not be nice to the people who have failed to win.

[adam]

About half of the current playoff teams are teams that just came out of a rebuild. The other half are perennial playoff teams with long standing coaches and QBs.

DET - Year 4, MIN - Year 3, HOU - Year 2, WAS - Year 1, ATL - Year 1, LAC - Year 1, DEN - Year 1. 4 of those teams have new QBs this year. 

DET had a winning record Year 2, was in the Conf Championship Year 3, and is a SB contender Year 4. 

KC, BUF, BAL, PIT, GB, PHI, and SEA have not been in a rebuild for 5+ years. We want to get into this group, but we have to get into the above group first. Unless the Bears go on an unprecedented heater and win out, then it will be another year below .500 pointing figures at the previous regime. At some point this is on Poles. 

At what point do we stop accepting losing seasons?

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

you cant just take any group of people and give them 3 or 4 or 5 years and expect the result to be a championship. Winners are rare. Every year 31 teams do not win the superbowl and only 1 does.

When your group is showing that they are not great, you move on from them.

I do not understand this "give em another chance" crap.

I want to win, not be nice to the people who have failed to win.

Im not talking about Flus he's dead to me for several weeks now, totally refering to Poles. We won 3 games in his first season when he probably shouldnt have won any. 7-10 in his 2nd season and lost 3 games in odds to win were great. Finish 5-3 to end the season.  Considering we had a flawed QB those are a team pointing  in the right direction. . He has not finished his 3rd yr and the record doesnt look good where a rookie QB and a ton of injuries has jacked up the season. Clearly the biggest problem is the coach that will be gone at the end of the yr. We have lost 3 games in the last seconds of those games against 3 better teams than us. Losing breds losing. Poles has got us Caleb, a upgraded roster and an have assets to fix the OL and DL. I think he has done  enough to earn one more year.  We are not even done with the third yr yet. Crying failure when the guy has not finished the 3rd year what he said would take 4-5 yrs is premature. 

Clearly you were right about the coach but I understand why he kept him. He disregarded Fields to draft the QB you wanted-+. Poles should take a hit for keeping Flus but this is looking back, where he was looking forward, a much easier place to give an opinion. Also he misjudged his OL rebuild, Jenkins, hurt to much, Bates just now seeing snaps and Shelton playing above his backup role to begin with. B Jones has dealt with some injuries but is still ranked in the top 20 OTs. Wright has been up and down this year but no one believes he is a bust. He missed on Davis big time but he's gone now. A bad coach, terrible OC and this is where we're at. The overall picture still looks good since he got us the francise QB. 

 

[Stinger226]

24 minutes ago, adam said:

About half of the current playoff teams are teams that just came out of a rebuild. The other half are perennial playoff teams with long standing coaches and QBs.

DET - Year 4, MIN - Year 3, HOU - Year 2, WAS - Year 1, ATL - Year 1, LAC - Year 1, DEN - Year 1. 4 of those teams have new QBs this year. 

DET had a winning record Year 2, was in the Conf Championship Year 3, and is a SB contender Year 4. 

KC, BUF, BAL, PIT, GB, PHI, and SEA have not been in a rebuild for 5+ years. We want to get into this group, but we have to get into the above group first. Unless the Bears go on an unprecedented heater and win out, then it will be another year below .500 pointing figures at the previous regime. At some point this is on Poles. 

At what point do we stop accepting losing seasons?

Poles deserves to take a hit for several mistakes but does anyone here think if Poles is here next year we are a losing team?

Going back to 2019 we have only had 4 first round picks, most of the good teams have had double that.  One was Fields that was a Pace mistake. My point is he had farther to go than most teams and had limited assets until he fixed the cap and acquired draft capital. If you're saying that didnt matter then i am not putting much value in your opinion.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Poles deserves to take a hit for several mistakes but does anyone here think if Poles is here next year we are a losing team?

Poles was part of Getsy, Waldron, a fired DC, and Eberflus - twice.

And of the entire universe, this is who you think is best to choose the next head coach? There is no one else available to us who is better?

Poles shouldnt get so much credit for Caleb. He couldnt know that Carolina would get the first pick the next year. The trade he made was good, but it wasnt creative or out of the blue. Any competent lawyer could have made that trade.

The question is: who is our next head coach. EVERYTHING depends on it. Get it wrong, and you waste all of this, the trade, Caleb, everything. Youre back to square one. It's a 20 year death sentence.

But get it right, and we are finally a contender. Caleb becomes a star and we win superbowls.

If Poles picks the right guy then great. But is he our BEST option for making that pick. Out of everyone?

I dont care about giving a guy all the time he was promised. This isnt the Chicago befairtopoles - its the Chicago Bears. And if you need to be right for anyone, you need to be right for Caleb!

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Poles was part of Getsy, Waldron, a fired DC, and Eberflus - twice.

And of the entire universe, this is who you think is best to choose the next head coach? There is no one else available to us who is better?

Poles shouldnt get so much credit for Caleb. He couldnt know that Carolina would get the first pick the next year. The trade he made was good, but it wasnt creative or out of the blue. Any competent lawyer could have made that trade.

The question is: who is our next head coach. EVERYTHING depends on it. Get it wrong, and you waste all of this, the trade, Caleb, everything. Youre back to square one. It's a 20 year death sentence.

But get it right, and we are finally a contender. Caleb becomes a star and we win superbowls.

If Poles picks the right guy then great. But is he our BEST option for making that pick. Out of everyone?

I dont care about giving a guy all the time he was promised. This isnt the Chicago befairtopoles - its the Chicago Bears. And if you need to be right for anyone, you need to be right for Caleb!

The question was ( does anyone think we are a losing team next year with Poles as the GM)?  I didnt ask if there is someone out  there that would do better( of course there is). My point is, I dont think Poles is getting fired so once you accept that then 1/ Will he get a good coach ( THEY WILL LINE UP TO GET HERE) =yes     2/ will he fix the OL and DL? = yes he has very good cap space and 4 top 100 picks. If Cunninghan leaves that will be 5 in top 105. If Fields gets anymore playing time, we could have another 4th rounder. 

The future is bright. You keep looking at worst case scenarios every time you make a point. He hit a home run with that trade and he could have kept Fields and got another great trade for the #1 pick. He is totally responable for Caleb being here. 

Poles aint leaving, I dont get to make that decision, get on Poles X account and let him know what you think.   @RyanPolesBears

[Mongo3451]

5 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

The question was ( does anyone think we are a losing team next year with Poles as the GM)?  I didnt ask if there is someone out  there that would do better( of course there is). My point is, I dont think Poles is getting fired so once you accept that then 1/ Will he get a good coach ( THEY WILL LINE UP TO GET HERE) =yes     2/ will he fix the OL and DL? = yes he has very good cap space and 4 top 100 picks. If Cunninghan leaves that will be 5 in top 105. If Fields gets anymore playing time, we could have another 4th rounder. 

The future is bright. You keep looking at worst case scenarios every time you make a point. He hit a home run with that trade and he could have kept Fields and got another great trade for the #1 pick. He is totally responable for Caleb being here. 

Poles aint leaving, I dont get to make that decision, get on Poles X account and let him know what you think.   @RyanPolesBears

I've been simmering on this the last two weeks and haven't found the time.  Year one of Poles was, hold on and take the beating and I loved it.  Year two of Poles was trade the pick, get Edmonds and Edwards for the price of Roquan.  And I loved it until he didn't improve the OL like he said he would.  Then trades for Sweat and he became Lord Poles.  Year three and my full expectation was drafting our future face of the franchise, get another pass rusher and fix the OL.  That's a yes, no and hell no.  Instead, he trades a 4th rounder for an injury prone reciever with a 24 million contract, in the best receiver class in years.  Then, drafts Odunze instead of OL, or Verse.  He could have traded that pick and possibly gotten OL, DL and a receiver.  Everett and Swift were both unnecessary signings.  Drafting Tory Taylor in the 4th is now a slap on his own face.  Poles failure has enhanced Flus' chance of failure this year.  Poles has two outta three good years, but his arrogance has really hurt us and Caleb's growth.  If Flus goes, Poles needs to go as well.  Coaches and GM's should be a package deal when together multiple years.  How many times have seen a lame duck GM hire our next coach.  Either Poles goes or gets extended.  No status quo.

I hate to say it because I idolized Poles for the work he was doing.  He simply had three years to fix the trenches and it's not close enough for me to endorse him. We lack a dominant pass rusher, a dominant 3T, a LT, an OG and a center.  It get gets bigger if Brisker has to retire, because Byard has lost two steps.  We also didn't have effective speed at the WR position, as we are nothing but possession types.  The roster should be close, but it is not...

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

I've been simmering on this the last two weeks and haven't found the time.  Year one of Poles was, hold on and take the beating and I loved it.  Year two of Poles was trade the pick, get Edmonds and Edwards for the price of Roquan.  And I loved it until he didn't improve the OL like he said he would.  Then trades for Sweat and he became Lord Poles.  Year three and my full expectation was drafting our future face of the franchise, get another pass rusher and fix the OL.  That's a yes, no and hell no.  Instead, he trades a 4th rounder for an injury prone reciever with a 24 million contract, in the best receiver class in years.  Then, drafts Odunze instead of OL, or Verse.  He could have traded that pick and possibly gotten OL, DL and a receiver.  Everett and Swift were both unnecessary signings.  Drafting Tory Taylor in the 4th is now a slap on his own face.  Poles failure has enhanced Flus' chance of failure this year.  Poles has two outta three good years, but his arrogance has really hurt us and Caleb's growth.  If Flus goes, Poles needs to go as well.  Coaches and GM's should be a package deal when together multiple years.  How many times have seen a lame duck GM hire our next coach.  Either Poles goes or gets extended.  No status quo.

I hate to say it because I idolized Poles for the work he was doing.  He simply had three years to fix the trenches and it's not close enough for me to endorse him. We lack a dominant pass rusher, a dominant 3T, a LT, an OG and a center.  It get gets bigger if Brisker has to retire, because Byard has lost two steps.  We also didn't have effective speed at the WR position, as we are nothing but possession types.  The roster should be close, but it is not...

I agree with most you have to say. I will mention his OL plan failed but he did have one. Injuries crippled  it. Not sure anyone can say he knew Bates wouldnt be able to play of which Shelton ( the backup) has ended up being okay at C. Braxton Jones has had a few miss games and Jenkins has only played 79% of the LG position. Wright has been up and down but the OTs have played well the last few games. I suspected he thought Kiran A.  would have been  able to contribute by now. Total miss on Davis and he's gone now.  His plan:  Healthy Braxton Jones-healthy Trevin Jenkins- Bates( not available)-Davis(bust)-Wright being more consistant but is trending up. Pryor hasnt been great but thank God he's here because of Davis. 

He took a 2nd round T on the 3rd round that I think thought would add depth and possibly take Jones spot next year. When he signed Allen he wasnt sure he could  draft Odunze who he clearly wanted. A top Wr to grow with Caleb. If we went into  the season with Moore, Allen and Kmet and Caleb was failings as  he started the year doing, people would be angry because he didnt bring in enough weapons. No matter what he did someone would have been complaining about another position. Next yr is the yr he will be able to add enough assets to fill our weaknesses. In 3 yrs he would have had to it on every move to have been successful  right now and he didnt. 

I think what he should do next yr. With the first pick take a OT to play LT of which 6 are rated in the first round. That leaves Braxton to be swing T. Move Kiran to LG and resign Jenkins to compete with him on a team friendly deal. Shelton-Bates and a rookie pick to fight over the C spot and have depth with the losers. Sign Trey Smith to play RG (never missed a start) and Wright should be excelling at RT. Draft another OG to add depth to the IOL. Resign Pryor for a backup. 

That still gives him a couple 2nd round picks to add to the DL. By then Booker should be contributing and Dexter will be one yr along in his growth. We have the money bring in a vet DL. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Defense will be fine - need an early round dlinemen and maybe a vet free agent signing. I’d stick to drafting another dub/safety as well…but I’m confident d will reset in the offseason and get back with some swagger. 

[Stinger226]

10 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Defense will be fine - need an early round dlinemen and maybe a vet free agent signing. I’d stick to drafting another dub/safety as well…but I’m confident d will reset in the offseason and get back with some swagger. 

Of course that is what will happen but losing is just depressing to me as a fan. We always say next year but It actually will be next year for us.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Of course that is what will happen but losing is just depressing to me as a fan. We always say next year but It actually will be next year for us.

It’s why I want to destroy the lions so badly today. Would be awesome to see Caleb have like a 5 TD win over best team in football!!! 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

It’s why I want to destroy the lions so badly today. Would be awesome to see Caleb have like a 5 TD win over best team in football!!! 

me too! I wanna see Caleb continue making obvious strides against good defenses!

[DABEARSDABOMB]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

me too! I wanna see Caleb continue making obvious strides against good defenses!

Short week and road game in this situation. He is in a big hole. Brown has to think big picture here. 
 

Maybe Bears should just hand things to Belicheck and Vrabel now lol. Set the culture now. 

[BearFan PHX]

Win or lose this one, Caleb is a gamer!

[adam]

Short week vs arguably the best team in the league and you drive your team down within FG range and the HC shits the bed again.