Eberflus FIRED; Brown interim HC

[BearFan PHX]

yeah, especially for a team that acts like a corporation worshipping HR, they sure dont actually know how to organize anything do they?

This whole things feels like a home spun bake sale.

I wish we had a competitive owner with some vision.

I do think if we get the head coach right, we can win with this structure, but it isnt the best for sure. Can it pick the right head coach?

[Stinger226]

16 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Im just sayin, if Im a hater, then youre definitely a fanboy.

Also I am aware that he could have been a good DC and a terrible HC. Of course that is possible. But I think the performance of our D, such as it is, is the players, and I credit Poles for that. (see, not a Poles hater )

I suspect we will see no drop off in Defensive play, and that will prove that Flus didnt add anything on that side of the ball either.

And to reiterate, my point in saying all of this is to say that anyone who defended Eberflus on the basis of what he added on the defensive side of the ball was wrong. And i dont mean fans like us, I am speaking about WHY Poles kept him?

I think Poles has done some good things in drafting players, but he has also been consistently terrible in picking coaches. Not just Flus, but the coordinators too. I dont want him picking the next head coach. Thats really my main point.

Anyway, if the defense continues to play at the same level going forward, or better, then Flus didnt add anything there. Thats just logic too?

So let me understand this, his HC performance has affected our team, but his defensive coaching has no effect? The D has a lot of injuries right now and this team is in chaos and you're trying to compare performancies?  He has a history of being a good DC but we are suppose to judge him on a few games? Using that logic then at the begining of the year Caleb had some teerrible games so he's not any good. Got it.

[Stinger226]

What record does Brown need to be given the HC after the season? 5-0, 4-1, 3-2 ?

I think they will have a search for a new HC after the season, Brown will be a canidate. I think Caleb has input in keeping Brown or not that will affect their decision. I would say they probably look for someone that has been a HC before and been successful. A new hire always has a learning period as to whether he can be a HC. Nagy, Flus.

Vrabel-Kingsbury-Belicheck-Gruden all fall in that catagory, Johnson does not.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

What record does Brown need to be given the HC after the season? 5-0, 4-1, 3-2 ?

I think they will have a search for a new HC after the season, Brown will be a canidate. I think Caleb has input in keeping Brown or not that will affect their decision. I would say they probably look for someone that has been a HC before and been successful. A new hire always has a learning period as to whether he can be a HC. Nagy, Flus.

Vrabel-Kingsbury-Belicheck-Gruden all fall in that catagory, Johnson does not.

Vrabel is very enticing.  What he did in Tenn without a good QB was impressive at least to me who roots for a team that hasn’t had a good QB.    He’ll build the trenches for sure.   

[Bears4Ever_34]

16 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I heard opposite - he was pretty high on Caleb. But I agree he won’t be coming. Vrabel could though and he was pretty good in Tennessee. 

Unless things have changed in recent weeks, everytime I've listened to him on all the various podcasts he's appeared on, he's quick to point out all his flaws and always pours cold water on the things he does well, where he'll talk about how bad the competition was that he faced. But then he won't do that for any of the other rookie quarterbacks. He applies a double standard for Caleb that he doesn't apply to any of the other quarterbacks, which is aggravating to listen to, because he sounds like a twitter troll.

I get why people like Vrabel, but I just can't anymore with defensive guys. Caleb is already on track to have his 3rd coordinator in 2 years with a new HC next year. There's too much of a risk to hire another defensive coach and keep Caleb on this cycle of learning new offenses every 1 or 2 years because the coordinator is either bad enough to be fired or good enough to be hired elsewhere. 

[Stinger226]

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18Ef88UYFp/

[AZ54]

46 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18Ef88UYFp/

What is that for those who do not use Facebook?  

[BearFan PHX]

it's a pink picture with hearts that says
"Afraid of what could go wrong?
Start being
excited about what
can go right!"

basically it's an enticement to be a fanboy and not criticize anything, to promote from within and not have any accountability.

It assumes that if someone wants to fire the people who are doing their jobs poorly, that theyre a hater, instead of an optimist that believes that things could get better with some changes.

Personally I think we have the best QB we've ever had, and the roster has a lot of talent on it. I want a new better coaching staff, and a GM that I can trust to get that decision right. I have optimism that we could find those guys.

[Bears4Ever_34]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

What record does Brown need to be given the HC after the season? 5-0, 4-1, 3-2 ?

I think they will have a search for a new HC after the season, Brown will be a canidate. I think Caleb has input in keeping Brown or not that will affect their decision. I would say they probably look for someone that has been a HC before and been successful. A new hire always has a learning period as to whether he can be a HC. Nagy, Flus.

Vrabel-Kingsbury-Belicheck-Gruden all fall in that catagory, Johnson does not.

I don't think record is as important as his success with Caleb. He probably does need to win at least a couple games to be able to sell his impact on the team for any interview. More importantly, can he avoid the same end of game blunders as the man he's taking over for? If he can do that, and Caleb continues to look like the #1 pick in the draft, he deserves strong consideration for the job.

I hate the idea of them only going after experienced head coaches, but I tend to agree that's the route they'll choose to take, given the situation at stake for the organization. John Fox was experienced and had been to 2 Superbowls, but turned out to be a disaster. 

[BearFan PHX]

We've had such inept coaching, we have to be careful we don't fall in love with simple competency.

Based on small sample size, Thomas Brown has looked competent for sure. He is an obvious upgrade in every way.

But I want us to do a comprehensive coaching search and make sure we get the best option from everyone that's out there and get the absolute best coach (and staff) for this team. We've done too many internal arranged marriages, like keeping Morgan as OL coach and run game coordinator.

Let's get the best coach we can, and let that guy pick his staff without pressure to keep anyone we currently have.

If it turns out that for example, Hoke is the best DB coach out there for us, then great, let's keep him, but not out of loyalty, but simply because he is the best option.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

We've had such inept coaching, we have to be careful we don't fall in love with simple competency.

Based on small sample size, Thomas Brown has looked competent for sure. He is an obvious upgrade in every way.

But I want us to do a comprehensive coaching search and make sure we get the best option from everyone that's out there and get the absolute best coach (and staff) for this team. We've done too many internal arranged marriages, like keeping Morgan as OL coach and run game coordinator.

Let's get the best coach we can, and let that guy pick his staff without pressure to keep anyone we currently have.

If it turns out that for example, Hoke is the best DB coach out there for us, then great, let's keep him, but not out of loyalty, but simply because he is the best option.

Totaly agree with you. If he goes 5-0 or 4-1, he will be close to the top of the list. They need the best choice,  i think they need someone that has did it before, new hires dont have a track record on being a HC.

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

We've had such inept coaching, we have to be careful we don't fall in love with simple competency.

Based on small sample size, Thomas Brown has looked competent for sure. He is an obvious upgrade in every way.

But I want us to do a comprehensive coaching search and make sure we get the best option from everyone that's out there and get the absolute best coach (and staff) for this team. We've done too many internal arranged marriages, like keeping Morgan as OL coach and run game coordinator.

Let's get the best coach we can, and let that guy pick his staff without pressure to keep anyone we currently have.

If it turns out that for example, Hoke is the best DB coach out there for us, then great, let's keep him, but not out of loyalty, but simply because he is the best option.

If you build it they will come.  This is now a coveted job.  Expect the Bears to get the pick of the litter.  They still have to make the right choice but there will be absolutely no excuses if Poles messes this up.   

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

it's a pink picture with hearts that says
"Afraid of what could go wrong?
Start being
excited about what
can go right!"

basically it's an enticement to be a fanboy and not criticize anything, to promote from within and not have any accountability.

It assumes that if someone wants to fire the people who are doing their jobs poorly, that theyre a hater, instead of an optimist that believes that things could get better with some changes.

Personally I think we have the best QB we've ever had, and the roster has a lot of talent on it. I want a new better coaching staff, and a GM that I can trust to get that decision right. I have optimism that we could find those guys.

I think a hater is someone that never gives credit to someone on when they deserve it but always turns everything it to a negative. I think there is a grey area in so many things, its not always black or white- good or bad. 

For me I support people on the Bears until they hit a point, then Im done with them. I wish i  was more like you (where I give up on players-coaches ) right away, its just my nature to be loyal or look at the positive. Example ( Poles) he has some bad marks but has some good marks too. He fixed the cap, added a lot of talent-drafted Caleb. Flus turned out to be bad and some talent choices didnt work out.  I dont think changing regimes every 2 1/2 yrs because the results arent there yet  makes us a winner . Poles for one more year is worth watching. I heard today where Poles wanted to get rid of Flus after the NE game and the brass said no. Dont know if true or not but that is when Flus lost me.

Exactly we're in a good spot ,nice you're seeing the big picture, its not all gloom and doom. 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

I think a hater is someone that never gives credit to someone on when they deserve it but always turns everything it to a negative. I think there is a grey area in so many things, its not always black or white- good or bad. 

For me I support people on the Bears until they hit a point, then Im done with them. I wish i  was more like you (where I give up on players-coaches ) right away, its just my nature to be loyal or look at the positive. Example ( Poles) he has some bad marks but has some good marks too. He fixed the cap, added a lot of talent-drafted Caleb. Flus turned out to be bad and some talent choices didnt work out.  I dont think changing regimes every 2 1/2 yrs because the results arent there yet  makes us a winner . Poles for one more year is worth watching. I heard today where Poles wanted to get rid of Flus after the NE game and the brass said no. Dont know if true or not but that is when Flus lost me.

Exactly we're in a good spot ,nice you're seeing the big picture, its not all gloom and doom. 

Nothing personal meant by this: I just think you're too forgiving if people are already part of the team. And thats your fan thing, so I respect it from that perspective.

But i think building a real winner that bullies other teams on the field means being tough and harsh in evaluations as well. If someones doing OK, thats good for regular life, but it doesnt win championships. I want greatness. And the fact that i think it is possible is my version of optimism. I believe in the Bears future, but not everyone currently part of the organization.

I also think you have to look at long term trends and what you learn about players and coaches. I dont agree with you when you say if someone does something good the next 4 or 5 weeks that they save themselves, if they already have years on tape of subpar performance.

The games come down to the last minute, but these kind of decisions really shouldn't.

I dont really give up on anyone right away. I didnt blame Flus for year #1. I didnt blame Fields at first. Rookie players need time to grow. And if they make lots of different mistakes, that's easier to ride with. But when they make the same mistakes over and over, then that's who they are.

Justin is a good example. Justin Fields is a hell of an athlete. He's probably in the top 40 QBs in the world. I recognize that he is immensely talented. But I want to be the #1 team in the NFL. So I'll move on from a guy who is really damned good, but not good enough to win superbowls. And let's face it - there are probably less than 10 Qbs in the world that can do that. And none are available. So you draft, and try and when you know he isnt that guy, you move on. Not because he doesnt have positive aspects, but because if your goal is truly multiple superbowl victories, then the 15th best guy isnt enough.

That's why I move off of guys sooner than you do. I dont need to think they are terrible, just to know they arent going to be top 5. ANd you know that sooner than you know if they are never going to be top 20.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

If you build it they will come.  This is now a coveted job.  Expect the Bears to get the pick of the litter.  They still have to make the right choice but there will be absolutely no excuses if Poles messes this up.   

Totally agree that we should be a coveted destination.

I just hope we are willing to choose the right guy if he is a bit rough or not an HR dream.

We have to stop the endless supply of palatable meek muppets. We need leaders. Sometimes leaders get angry. Sometimes they actually say when things are going poorly. Sometimes that helps!

If Poles makes a good pick and stays, so be it. I dont hate the guy. Hes done some good things and some not so good things. I just want to be sure we get this head coach right.

I read an article today that said that poles wanted to fire Flus as early as the Patriots game. Apparently McCaskey wouldnt let him. So the McCaskeys still cast a large shadow over this organization.

But WHY did Poles keep Flus after last year? It was obvious that he had all the same flaws that he showed again this year. it makes it harder to trust Poles will get it right. But maybe with some help he will - getting the next coach right is all that really matters.

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Nothing personal meant by this: I just think you're too forgiving if people are already part of the team. And thats your fan thing, so I respect it from that perspective.

But i think building a real winner that bullies other teams on the field means being tough and harsh in evaluations as well. If someones doing OK, thats good for regular life, but it doesnt win championships. I want greatness. And the fact that i think it is possible is my version of optimism. I believe in the Bears future, but not everyone currently part of the organization.

I also think you have to look at long term trends and what you learn about players and coaches. I dont agree with you when you say if someone does something good the next 4 or 5 weeks that they save themselves, if they already have years on tape of subpar performance.

The games come down to the last minute, but these kind of decisions really shouldn't.

I dont really give up on anyone right away. I didnt blame Flus for year #1. I didnt blame Fields at first. Rookie players need time to grow. And if they make lots of different mistakes, that's easier to ride with. But when they make the same mistakes over and over, then that's who they are.

Justin is a good example. Justin Fields is a hell of an athlete. He's probably in the top 40 QBs in the world. I recognize that he is immensely talented. But I want to be the #1 team in the NFL. So I'll move on from a guy who is really damned good, but not good enough to win superbowls. And let's face it - there are probably less than 10 Qbs in the world that can do that. And none are available. So you draft, and try and when you know he isnt that guy, you move on. Not because he doesnt have positive aspects, but because if your goal is truly multiple superbowl victories, then the 15th best guy isnt enough.

That's why I move off of guys sooner than you do. I dont need to think they are terrible, just to know they arent going to be top 5. ANd you know that sooner than you know if they are never going to be top 20.

I'm in the same boat.  I try to stay optimistic as long as I can, then I throw something at the TV.  

[BearFan PHX]

15 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I'm in the same boat.  I try to stay optimistic as long as I can, then I throw something at the TV.  

LOL yeah well we are all frustrated, but I am still more optimistic about the Bears than I have been in many years. We just need to get the head coach right and then we should ascend and compete.

I know some people are always positive about their team, and others are always negative, but i like to think that i am realistic, and just want to chase greatness. And I think most or all of us here are the same way.

[Stinger226]

I dont disagree with anything you said, being a long time Bears fan demanding excellance means I would have bailed long ago because its the Bears. George and Virgina are disfyuncionable as owners. To maintain my fandome, I have to accept bad and still have hope. With Poles coming in , it changed a little with Warren being hired. I see the roster being upgrade , got a GM that considers the cap space when making moves, and the gold ring Caleb. That all gives me hope. Poles aint perfect, but like you said, if everyone fired, do you have trust they get it right next time. I trust Poles to be get this right much more than George screwing up another hire. 

I think we are one yr away from glory, a few yrs from a SB, changing everything now will just delay that, not speed it up. 

On the SCORE they reported that Poles wanted to fire Flus after the NE game, that's when he lost the team. It took a Lions embarrasment to convince George. I dont crare how we got there as long as we are there. Waldron-gone, Flus-gone. 

Tom Brown may not be the man but much better than we had. To have your (attitude greatness or bust)  it will always be gloom until the Bears are sold. I'll take clumsy but at least it got done. If we now get some wins and Caleb keeps looking better, he will be a choice for HC next year. I prefer Vrabel or Gruden, I want experience of success instead of trial HC. 









































NE game

[Mongo3451]

Something's gotta change...

[Stinger226]

It's a disfyncunal franchise, the only way it changes is to be sold. I will accept getting it right no matter how clumsy it is. Waldron gone, Flus gone. 

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I dont disagree with anything you said, being a long time Bears fan demanding excellance means I would have bailed long ago because its the Bears. George and Virgina are disfyuncionable as owners. To maintain my fandome, I have to accept bad and still have hope. With Poles coming in , it changed a little with Warren being hired. I see the roster being upgrade , got a GM that considers the cap space when making moves, and the gold ring Caleb. That all gives me hope. Poles aint perfect, but like you said, if everyone fired, do you have trust they get it right next time. I trust Poles to be get this right much more than George screwing up another hire. 

I think we are one yr away from glory, a few yrs from a SB, changing everything now will just delay that, not speed it up. 

On the SCORE they reported that Poles wanted to fire Flus after the NE game, that's when he lost the team. It took a Lions embarrasment to convince George. I dont crare how we got there as long as we are there. Waldron-gone, Flus-gone. 

Tom Brown may not be the man but much better than we had. To have your (attitude greatness or bust)  it will always be gloom until the Bears are sold. I'll take clumsy but at least it got done. If we now get some wins and Caleb keeps looking better, he will be a choice for HC next year. I prefer Vrabel or Gruden, I want experience of success instead of trial HC.

Well said. I understand what you say about maintaining your fandom.

I just think that firing someone who is a 2 out of 10 is easy. But staying with someone who is a 6 is just as destructive. When someone shows you they are average, you move on from them, even if it isn't "fair" - of course you cant know who youre gonna get next time. They all look like 9s until you get to know them.

So the point isn't that someone should be able to predict the future, but they need to be able to pull the trigger when greatness is not there. You dont have to wait for failure if you know what your goal is. Mediocrity is enough.

So in that way of thinking, giving coaches extra years and hoping they will get better is foolish to my way of thinking. Coaches are grown men who should have lots of football experience already. They would be the best QBs int he NFL if they had the physical talent and youth along with their wisdom and experience.

That's why you can tell with coaches pretty quick.

Players are different. They get a few years to grow, and they get to make mistakes. If they keep making the SAME mistakes, then you know they are done. FOr example we kept Velus Jones way too long. Yes he had speed, but he wasnt a player. And he was DUMB.

But giving Justin Fields a few years to develop made sense. There is no reason to pull the plug on a 22 year old who is new to the league. But after last year, it was obvious that he was making the same mistakes over and over again. And he was the same in Pittsburgh.

The reason is he was no longer growing, this is WHO HE IS. Anyway this isnt about Justin, it's about how and when to judge people, and that the same window you give to players should not be extended to coaches. They aren't 21 years old. They are who they are.

So on one hand, you talk about the chaos that comes with change, and that is real for sure. But if you know you have a 6 or worse, staying longer with them to hope they change is a bad gamble. The chaos is better than being trapped in the middle, because you can overcome chaos when the right guy leads, but youll never ride a broken horse to a Kentucky Derby victory.

[Stinger226]

7 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Well said. I understand what you say about maintaining your fandom.

I just think that firing someone who is a 2 out of 10 is easy. But staying with someone who is a 6 is just as destructive. When someone shows you they are average, you move on from them, even if it isn't "fair" - of course you cant know who youre gonna get next time. They all look like 9s until you get to know them.

So the point isn't that someone should be able to predict the future, but they need to be able to pull the trigger when greatness is not there. You dont have to wait for failure if you know what your goal is. Mediocrity is enough.

So in that way of thinking, giving coaches extra years and hoping they will get better is foolish to my way of thinking. Coaches are grown men who should have lots of football experience already. They would be the best QBs int he NFL if they had the physical talent and youth along with their wisdom and experience.

That's why you can tell with coaches pretty quick.

Players are different. They get a few years to grow, and they get to make mistakes. If they keep making the SAME mistakes, then you know they are done. FOr example we kept Velus Jones way too long. Yes he had speed, but he wasnt a player. And he was DUMB.

But giving Justin Fields a few years to develop made sense. There is no reason to pull the plug on a 22 year old who is new to the league. But after last year, it was obvious that he was making the same mistakes over and over again. And he was the same in Pittsburgh.

The reason is he was no longer growing, this is WHO HE IS. Anyway this isnt about Justin, it's about how and when to judge people, and that the same window you give to players should not be extended to coaches. They aren't 21 years old. They are who they are.

So on one hand, you talk about the chaos that comes with change, and that is real for sure. But if you know you have a 6 or worse, staying longer with them to hope they change is a bad gamble. The chaos is better than being trapped in the middle, because you can overcome chaos when the right guy leads, but youll never ride a broken horse to a Kentucky Derby victory.

I hear you, this convesation is more about Poles than Flus, I gave Flus another year but he proved to me 4 games ago, he wasnt the man. I get you were right about him but I accepted the fact I didnt think Poles would dump him last year and just hoped for the best. The shine is off Poles for me but there again I dont think he's gong anywhere. So I am hoping he picks the right coach and that he fixes our trenches. I take what is the reality that someone is not getting fired so why not hope for the best and complain and hopes Poles does bad and gets fired. I am always wanting greatness, but longing for a Harbaugh type that will cost 16-20 mil a year aint getting hired by these owners.  ownership.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Thoughts on Bears president Warren saying he will lead the Bears new HC search and Poles will assist.  It tells me Poles is on a short leash 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Thoughts on Marcus Freeman, Notre Dame HC as a candidate.  

Short list of bears candidates:

Thomas Brown 

Mike Vrabel

Kliff Kingsbury

Aaron Glenn 

Marcus Freeman

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Thoughts on Bears president Warren saying he will lead the Bears new HC search and Poles will assist.  It tells me Poles is on a short leash 

Hate it...