Align the Organization - Fire Poles

[adam]

The team needs to purge itself of whatever has infested the organization. Whether it is weakness, passiveness, being too nice, whatever it is, they need to clean house and start fresh while Caleb is still on his rookie deal. 

I would fire Poles, the entire coaching staff, and other staffers that have bred this losing culture over the past 3 years. 

For the roster, I am saving some cap space by cutting or trading Edmunds, Everett, and Bates to free up about $15M. Some dead cap for Edmunds but it would be worth it. I would be open to trading just about anyone on the roster for draft capital. 

Poles has now built a team that has had 2 losing streaks 7 games or longer. There are teams that have not lost 7 games in that same time frame, but people are defending Poles. This is the 2nd worst team in the NFL over the past 3 years and there is a good chance CAR passes the Bears with 2 more wins in the last 4 weeks to put the Bears at the bottom.

[Stinger226]

5 hours ago, adam said:

The team needs to purge itself of whatever has infested the organization. Whether it is weakness, passiveness, being too nice, whatever it is, they need to clean house and start fresh while Caleb is still on his rookie deal. 

I would fire Poles, the entire coaching staff, and other staffers that have bred this losing culture over the past 3 years. 

For the roster, I am saving some cap space by cutting or trading Edmunds, Everett, and Bates to free up about $15M. Some dead cap for Edmunds but it would be worth it. I would be open to trading just about anyone on the roster for draft capital. 

Poles has now built a team that has had 2 losing streaks 7 games or longer. There are teams that have not lost 7 games in that same time frame, but people are defending Poles. This is the 2nd worst team in the NFL over the past 3 years and there is a good chance CAR passes the Bears with 2 more wins in the last 4 weeks to put the Bears at the bottom.

So what makes you think the next guy does everything the right way? You take a chance on changing defense scheme, maybe not believing in Caleb, hires the wrong coach. all of the same problems we have right now. 

Poles needs to get this yr to prove he stablizes the franchise. No matter what mistakes he has made, he has did as many good things. We cant keep reaching for near perfect, that's not going to happen here. He got us Caleb, lets dont reset and have a couple yrs of setbacks because of new people. 

[adam]

11 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

So what makes you think the next guy does everything the right way? You take a chance on changing defense scheme, maybe not believing in Caleb, hires the wrong coach. all of the same problems we have right now. 

Poles needs to get this yr to prove he stablizes the franchise. No matter what mistakes he has made, he has did as many good things. We cant keep reaching for near perfect, that's not going to happen here. He got us Caleb, lets dont reset and have a couple yrs of setbacks because of new people. 

It is like any other business. You remove the underperformers until you find the right guy. You don't know if the next guy will work out, but you already know the current guy is not working out. What less would Poles have to show to make you believe that he needs to be fired? How many more losses in a 3-year period? How many more losses in a row?

[Stinger226]

9 minutes ago, adam said:

It is like any other business. You remove the underperformers until you find the right guy. You don't know if the next guy will work out, but you already know the current guy is not working out. What less would Poles have to show to make you believe that he needs to be fired? How many more losses in a 3-year period? How many more losses in a row?

Truthfully, I dont disagree with you, i just dont think the Bears are firing him, so I roll with the notion he is going to be here.

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, adam said:

It is like any other business. You remove the underperformers until you find the right guy. You don't know if the next guy will work out, but you already know the current guy is not working out. What less would Poles have to show to make you believe that he needs to be fired? How many more losses in a 3-year period? How many more losses in a row?

Our underperformers are the owners.  The reason they built castles on high ground is because shit flows down stream.  If the GM can't hire and fire or choose the best coach, because of money, the rest is doomed. (Unless you luck into a great young coach) 

This doesn't exonerate Poles, but it is like treating cancer three feet away from the tumor.

[Stinger226]

23 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Our underperformers are the owners.  The reason they built castles on high ground is because shit flows down stream.  If the GM can't hire and fire or choose the best coach, because of money, the rest is doomed. (Unless you luck into a great young coach) 

This doesn't exonerate Poles, but it is like treating cancer three feet away from the tumor.

Everyone gets some of the blame, I trust Poles to find someone than Warren and George. Whether Flus was his choice or not, he has bought into the coahes that came in. i think he is smart and puts him in a better position to make a better choice than constant russian roulette every 3 yrs.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Ryan Poles has always been bad at his job. I've maintained this since I witnessed the disaster that was his first off-season, starting with the Larry Ogunjobie debacle. He doesn't do enough background research on the players he acquires, whether that's with Ogunjobie, Chase Claypool, Nate Davis, or Kiran Omigadjie. Is it laziness, general incompetence, or both?

Lovie Smith did more for this franchise as the head coach of the Houston Texans than Ryan Poles. That is the honest truth.

[Stinger226]

You are right, he should have not drafted Caleb and got a bunch of picks and fixed the OL and DL. He should have kept Fields and we would have a few more wins right now. 

We need to bring a new GM in and start over for the hundreth time then in 3 yrs ,do it again. I dont know what I was thinking.(its the same ownership)

[adam]

I am just sick of Trace Armstrong hirings. He is making millions off these transactions knowing the Bears will come back to the well ever 3-4 years with another need.

[Stinger226]

59 minutes ago, adam said:

I am just sick of Trace Armstrong hirings. He is making millions off these transactions knowing the Bears will come back to the well ever 3-4 years with another need.

Armstrong belongs to the America First group. I tried to find a client list but havent been successful yet. I did see Licoln Riley, PSU coach,  James Franklin, Mike McCarthy are clients. 

[Mongo3451]

Heard today that Poles was blindsided by the hiring of Warren.  I guess he accepted the job being told he had full autonomy in personnel matters.  I don't think the NFL establishment would hold it against him if he resigns.  They all know the owners that meddle and those that don't.

[BearFan PHX]

51 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Heard today that Poles was blindsided by the hiring of Warren.  I guess he accepted the job being told he had full autonomy in personnel matters.  I don't think the NFL establishment would hold it against him if he resigns.  They all know the owners that meddle and those that don't.

Id like to see him resign and spill the secrets so no one holds them against him and the McCaskeys finally have to admit they need to change the way they do things or no one will work for them.

Also Kevin Warren has no business meddling in football decisions. None.

[Stinger226]

14 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Id like to see him resign and spill the secrets so no one holds them against him and the McCaskeys finally have to admit they need to change the way they do things or no one will work for them.

Also Kevin Warren has no business meddling in football decisions. None.

Poles was given 3 choices at HC when he was hired and then added Warren after that they gave power to. It seems to be problems in the franchise is coming over Poles head which helps make him look bad. If I was him, and if I dont get player control of coaches and players, i would resign too. When Harbaugh called last year it was Warren that nixxed it, we dont know if Poles wanted to talk to Harbagh or not but is taking the heat for others actions.

[BearFan PHX]

Let the new coach bring his own GM?

I don't hate this idea. It open the door to more powerful and talented candidates who may demand some say in personnel. You might not want to go full Belichick and make the HC also the GM, but it insures that your coach and GM work together toward a vision.

We talk about there being a top football guy who should make the football decisions. An experienced head coach can be that guy. And if they come in with their choice of GM as a package deal, then the communication and vision is good, and for once all the contracts are unified.

You get the right two guys here, and Caleb buys in and the sky is the limit.

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/kevin-warren-is-considering-a-coach-hiring-method-bears-have-never-tried/

[AZ54]

I think this power struggle discussion is exactly what this organization needs.  How it shakes out who knows.  I think there's good reason to believe Poles was handicapped with his HC search in his first year.  I'd like to see him dig his heels in and fight for decision making authority now.  He chose to come here instead of Minn.  Leverage that.  Demand the contract extension to sync with his new HC.  

If he can't win that then quit, make it public, and we will know the cycle of doom will continue.  Staying or walking away without the fight puts us right back where we are today.  I really don't want Kevin Warren making football decisions.  

If Poles stays I want to see him make changes in the Pro Personnel department because that is where the biggest misses have been.  

[Stinger226]

This article is pulled of of X , note sure if you are not on X, if it opens up for everyone.

If they make the right hire for HC, of course its a great move. If they waste time finding a new GM, we could end up creating the same mess we just got. How many Coaches have a GM in their pocket when looking for a job/ I would say if its a good option he already has a job. 

.https://x.com/BearsNationCHI/status/1867264688666382461

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

This article is pulled of of X , note sure if you are not on X, if it opens up for everyone.

If they make the right hire for HC, of course its a great move. If they waste time finding a new GM, we could end up creating the same mess we just got. How many Coaches have a GM in their pocket when looking for a job/ I would say if its a good option he already has a job. 

.https://x.com/BearsNationCHI/status/1867264688666382461

 

I think the Bears intend to hire a great HC.   If that HC wants his own GM and that is the hang up for signing, then Poles will be looking for work.  

Poles career has not gone as well as he planned. Nate Davis for instance,  blindsided him.  A few draft picks were wasted on trades and bad players selected. I am not saying Poles has been bad, because he has done decent with the tools he had.  This offseason he can be in great position to fill some major voids with the first 4 picks in the draft that could redeem his job.  

But if a great HC wants someone else to work with, then we have to end the Poles era.

[BearFan PHX]

45 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I think the Bears intend to hire a great HC.   If that HC wants his own GM and that is the hang up for signing, then Poles will be looking for work.  

Poles career has not gone as well as he planned. Nate Davis for instance,  blindsided him.  A few draft picks were wasted on trades and bad players selected. I am not saying Poles has been bad, because he has done decent with the tools he had.  This offseason he can be in great position to fill some major voids with the first 4 picks in the draft that could redeem his job.  

But if a great HC wants someone else to work with, then we have to end the Poles era.

I agree with all of this.

I think Poles has been OK - let's say a B minus or something. Not bad at all. But not great.

In a lot of businesses you keep a guy who's doing that well. But in a super competitive business where the goal is greatness, being mediocre makes you expendable.

[Stinger226]

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I think the Bears intend to hire a great HC.   If that HC wants his own GM and that is the hang up for signing, then Poles will be looking for work.  

Poles career has not gone as well as he planned. Nate Davis for instance,  blindsided him.  A few draft picks were wasted on trades and bad players selected. I am not saying Poles has been bad, because he has done decent with the tools he had.  This offseason he can be in great position to fill some major voids with the first 4 picks in the draft that could redeem his job.  

But if a great HC wants someone else to work with, then we have to end the Poles era.

Of course but who is that great HC? Harbaugh didnt bring a GM with him, Belichick went to college. I dont see any dynamic coaches getting hired for the first time demanding the GM gets fired. Not one coach last year that was newly hired brought their own GM with them. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Of course but who is that great HC? Harbaugh didnt bring a GM with him, Belichick went to college. I dont see any dynamic coaches getting hired for the first time demanding the GM gets fired. Not one coach last year that was newly hired brought their own GM with them. 

Only a few coaches have demanded, McDermott and Shannahan lately.  Chicago must not have contacted Bellichik, huge mistake on them.  We don't know who will be available in 45 days.  We may even trade draft picks to get the coach.  All options are open because they cannot screw this up with a QB that can carry a team to greatness.

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I think the Bears intend to hire a great HC.   If that HC wants his own GM and that is the hang up for signing, then Poles will be looking for work.  

Poles career has not gone as well as he planned. Nate Davis for instance,  blindsided him.  A few draft picks were wasted on trades and bad players selected. I am not saying Poles has been bad, because he has done decent with the tools he had.  This offseason he can be in great position to fill some major voids with the first 4 picks in the draft that could redeem his job.  

But if a great HC wants someone else to work with, then we have to end the Poles era.

I don't want an arrogant HC who wants to call the shots on roster development.  There is far too much effort put into player personnel scouting and no HC is able to do that properly.  A lot of GMs struggle with it anyway but they should always have their eye on the 2-3 year outcome while the HC is concerned with the present.  I highly doubt any HC would ever do the scorched earth teardown that Poles did his first year.  That needed to be done and the subsequent roster improvement over the next two offseasons has been good but imperfect.  The look on Eberflus' face in post game pressers in year one with the lack of talent on the field was priceless.  Kinda matched the look on his face in year 3 when he had good talent and still couldn't win.  Except then the realization was that he might be the problem even if he refused to admit it.  

I don't know if all the rumors are true but Ben Johnson and his demands scare me.  It's not so much that he wants things setup his way it's that he's very public about it.  Ian Cunningham has been near the top of the list of GM candidates the last 2 years, without taking a job, yet what do you hear from him?   He more or less says when the situation is right it'll be right.  

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Of course but who is that great HC? Harbaugh didnt bring a GM with him

he actually did. he plucked someone from his brother Jim's front office

[BearFan PHX]

49 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Only a few coaches have demanded, McDermott and Shannahan lately.  Chicago must not have contacted Bellichik, huge mistake on them.  We don't know who will be available in 45 days.  We may even trade draft picks to get the coach.  All options are open because they cannot screw this up with a QB that can carry a team to greatness.

they should have just paid Belichick to spend a week with the franchise and do consulting. You'd know if he was the right guy then, and you'd learn something too.

It's a good move, and Waddle and Silvy were saying the same thing today. We are not the sort of organization that wants bad news, so we dont learn or grow.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

42 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

they should have just paid Belichick to spend a week with the franchise and do consulting. You'd know if he was the right guy then, and you'd learn something too.

It's a good move, and Waddle and Silvy were saying the same thing today. We are not the sort of organization that wants bad news, so we dont learn or grow.

At least talk to the man and learn.  They act like they know how to run a winning franchise.  No call to Harbaugh, no Andy Reid, no O'Connell who they took Eberflus over.  I am leaning g towards Vrabel now as my guy but if they can pry McVay or Shannhan for draft picks, I might consider.