Align the Organization - Fire Poles

[Stinger226]

That was a very good article that lays everything out there. Poles gives you lots of reason to change but do you think the Bears will do that? The franchise has been dysfuncting for a very long time and until the McCaskeys are no longer a part of it and the only hope is they get lucky. I dont have much hope in Warrem adding anything special because he was a lawyer that build a stadium and was never involved in day to day operations with the Vikings. 

The most important change will be who the next coach will be. No matter who chooses it, it justs needs to be the right one. My first choice would be Vrabel of which I think the Bears family would align with. A no nonsense hard nosed leader that would command the room. Ben Johnson doesnt seem like a choice the family would like. demanding 10 mil a yr as a nonproven HC. He seems to be a Tomlin, Campbell type that has been successful. Untimately I dont care if it some unknown as long as we win.

As that article suggests good coaches wont want to come here, they're not 32 jobs available , as of now 3. NO-Jets-Bears, only one has a franchise QB in place, great cap space ( NO + jets 3.4 mil) and the Bears have the best draft pick situation with 4 top 73 picks. Belichick was never coming here if some people think that was going to happen. Hopefully its someone that gets us wins. 

I dont think we change Poles whether he deserves it or not. As long as we get the right coach, his roster building is at least a C , some good some bad. For me I look at him fixing the Cap, getting us good draft capital and drafting Caleb. IF the brass brought in a new GM phenom, Im all supportive until they prove they were the wrong choice. 

Change always gives hope and then 3 yrs later we may want to tear it down again. I think we are very close to being a constant playoff team. Poles has given us a solid roster base DJ Moore, Kmet, Ordunze, Caleb Williams, Wright,Billings, Sweat, JJ, TJ Edwards, Gordon. I think we are 1 draft away from winning regular. Some people will say no because of the division we are in but we have been playing them competively for the last 2 yrs and i think Williams will be the best QB in the division goig forward.

Maybe we can just get lucky with our next coach choice instead of thinking the Bears brass will make the right choice. I'll take that.

[adam]

Poles 3rd Round Draft Picks really showing out: Velus, Pickens, Amegasuck. 

I am sorry, but there is no defending this guy anymore. This roster is a hot mess. Detroit has way more players on IR yet are still winning. 

Also, this is not an emotional reaction, this is due to another 8 game losing streak in the last 3 years.

This roster is not as good as you think. Sweat is overrated. 4.5 sacks for your Edge1 sucks. They have no Edge2, the healthy DTs are all backups. Edmunds is terrible without the salary and even worse with it. Just cut him already. Stevenson is just a goofball and shouldn't be a PS player at best. Owens is great for making a tackle after a 30 yard catch. At this point, they need to shed Edmunds, Walker, Stevenson, and Pickens on defense. They need 2x Edge, at least one more DT, MLB, CB, and S. So just 6 starters on defense, no biggie. On offense, 4x OLinemen, a RB, a real TE2, and a real WR3, so that is 7 more. So 13 key contributors, then a few top edge rotational guys. So about 16-18 key positions need to be addressed to get this roster to be competitive. 

On offense, the entire O-Line is terrible. Wright is serviceable, but he should not be letting Edge players with 1 sack sprint right by him untouched for an instant sack. He is good for one of those every other game. Swift is not an RB1, good for outside zone stuff and 3rd Down back stuff, but that's it. He is not an every down back. 

At least Brown has shown he is not the guy for the job. You can cross him off the list. This team looks worse now than before. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, adam said:

At least Brown has shown he is not the guy for the job. You can cross him off the list. This team looks worse now than before. 

Curious what you think happened to the team from right before Flus was fired until now?  They lost to GB, Minny and Det in three consecutive weeks by a combined score of 7 points.  One of those games was played in Detroit.  All three of those teams are poised to be in the playoffs. Flus gets fired and now they’ve lost to SF by 25 and Minny by 28 last night . 
 

What happened to all the genius moves that Poles made to get the roster as it currently is?  I’m not being an a-hole, I’m genuinely curious .  Many of the veteran players have been to a pro-bowl at least once. We have three of our most recent 1st round picks playing on offense; Williams, Odunze and Wright.  On paper going into the season, this team looked stacked. Suddenly we have a wagon with no wheels.  

[ChileBear]

25 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Curious what you think happened to the team from right before Flus was fired until now?  They lost to GB, Minny and Det in three consecutive weeks by a combined score of 7 points.  One of those games was played in Detroit.  All three of those teams are poised to be in the playoffs. Flus gets fired and now they’ve lost to SF by 25 and Minny by 28 last night . 
 

What happened to all the genius moves that Poles made to get the roster as it currently is?  I’m not being an a-hole, I’m genuinely curious .  Many of the veteran players have been to a pro-bowl at least once. We have three of our most recent 1st round picks playing on offense; Williams, Odunze and Wright.  On paper going into the season, this team looked stacked. Suddenly we have a wagon with no wheels.  

No Oline and piss poor coaching, that's what happened. Is Poles to blame for those two, yes. But I don't think he gets fired. We do need to weed out the cancers on the team (Tyrique and Kramer) and put together a DL and OL in the offseason while hiring an Offense-minded coach. Everyone knows that and  Warren 7 Co. will give Poles another year to do that, imDo.

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

My biggest fear right now is if the Bengals or Patriots jobs open up and how that will affect Ben Johnson's decision. That Bengals team is ready to win now with an MVP level quarterback, and the upside with Drake Maye is not hard to see. Even though I'm higher on Caleb, you could see a scenario where working with Maye and that organization is more appealing.

No idea how hot the seat is for either of those coaches, but it's certainly something I'm going to be watching on Black Monday.

[adam]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Curious what you think happened to the team from right before Flus was fired until now?  They lost to GB, Minny and Det in three consecutive weeks by a combined score of 7 points.  One of those games was played in Detroit.  All three of those teams are poised to be in the playoffs. Flus gets fired and now they’ve lost to SF by 25 and Minny by 28 last night . 
 

What happened to all the genius moves that Poles made to get the roster as it currently is?  I’m not being an a-hole, I’m genuinely curious .  Many of the veteran players have been to a pro-bowl at least once. We have three of our most recent 1st round picks playing on offense; Williams, Odunze and Wright.  On paper going into the season, this team looked stacked. Suddenly we have a wagon with no wheels.  

It is just a combination of things. Promoting Brown to OC is one thing, but then 2 weeks later elevating him to HC was not ideal. At the same time you have players making business decisions and clearly not giving 100% on and off the field. 

Interim coaches rarely work out because the problem is at the organizational level. They need to clean house and get rid of hold overs. Every part of the org needs to be looked at, scouting, pro player evals, etc. Something is clearly wrong on how they evaluate talent compared to the rest of the league. 

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, adam said:

Poles 3rd Round Draft Picks really showing out: Velus, Pickens, Amegasuck. 

I am sorry, but there is no defending this guy anymore. This roster is a hot mess. Detroit has way more players on IR yet are still winning. 

Also, this is not an emotional reaction, this is due to another 8 game losing streak in the last 3 years.

This roster is not as good as you think. Sweat is overrated. 4.5 sacks for your Edge1 sucks. They have no Edge2, the healthy DTs are all backups. Edmunds is terrible without the salary and even worse with it. Just cut him already. Stevenson is just a goofball and shouldn't be a PS player at best. Owens is great for making a tackle after a 30 yard catch. At this point, they need to shed Edmunds, Walker, Stevenson, and Pickens on defense. They need 2x Edge, at least one more DT, MLB, CB, and S. So just 6 starters on defense, no biggie. On offense, 4x OLinemen, a RB, a real TE2, and a real WR3, so that is 7 more. So 13 key contributors, then a few top edge rotational guys. So about 16-18 key positions need to be addressed to get this roster to be competitive. 

On offense, the entire O-Line is terrible. Wright is serviceable, but he should not be letting Edge players with 1 sack sprint right by him untouched for an instant sack. He is good for one of those every other game. Swift is not an RB1, good for outside zone stuff and 3rd Down back stuff, but that's it. He is not an every down back. 

At least Brown has shown he is not the guy for the job. You can cross him off the list. This team looks worse now than before. 

Lots of things to complain about ,Wright is not perfect, but has good upside. i seen in the Philly game, Juergens their pro bowl C, get run over and gave up a sack. No one has to be perfect to be  considered good. For Sweat, his has had nagging health issues that has effected his play, everyone cant be judgrd in a small box. 

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Bears4Ever_34 said:

My biggest fear right now is if the Bengals or Patriots jobs open up and how that will affect Ben Johnson's decision. That Bengals team is ready to win now with an MVP level quarterback, and the upside with Drake Maye is not hard to see. Even though I'm higher on Caleb, you could see a scenario where working with Maye and that organization is more appealing.

No idea how hot the seat is for either of those coaches, but it's certainly something I'm going to be watching on Black Monday.

I hear ya - I worry that Vrabel might want the Patriots job too, and they might want him too.

[Stinger226]

More reason to do talks now before more jobs open up. There is no rules when he is not employed.

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

More reason to do talks now before more jobs open up. There is no rules when he is not employed.

I totally agree. If you want Vrabel, dont mess around and just go get him.

[Mongo3451]

38 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I totally agree. If you want Vrabel, dont mess around and just go get him.

This...

[DABEARSDABOMB]

12 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Curious what you think happened to the team from right before Flus was fired until now?  They lost to GB, Minny and Det in three consecutive weeks by a combined score of 7 points.  One of those games was played in Detroit.  All three of those teams are poised to be in the playoffs. Flus gets fired and now they’ve lost to SF by 25 and Minny by 28 last night . 
 

What happened to all the genius moves that Poles made to get the roster as it currently is?  I’m not being an a-hole, I’m genuinely curious .  Many of the veteran players have been to a pro-bowl at least once. We have three of our most recent 1st round picks playing on offense; Williams, Odunze and Wright.  On paper going into the season, this team looked stacked. Suddenly we have a wagon with no wheels.  

Honestly - I think they are just all emotionally spent and see the writing on the wall. I think effort is there but at this point the coaching staff is so thin on both sides and there is so little you can do to change a whole playbook - combine that with a brutal schedule and just the weight of this loosing streak and you really can’t get to the end of the season fast enough. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

8 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I hear ya - I worry that Vrabel might want the Patriots job too, and they might want him too.

I’m confused - Patriots just hired their head coach last year. If they wanted Vrabel they could have hired him a year ago and they chose another route - I can’t see them moving on after one year. 
 

I think Cowboys would be the competition for Vrabel. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

And the Bengals job - as Bears4ever said - getting to coach Joe is a clear winner. 

[BearFan PHX]

5 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I’m confused - Patriots just hired their head coach last year. If they wanted Vrabel they could have hired him a year ago and they chose another route - I can’t see them moving on after one year. 
 

I think Cowboys would be the competition for Vrabel. 

I was just going on a report I heard where some ousted GM (from the Falcons maybe?) is being looked at for NE, and he and Vrabel have a connection?

But I just read that, I dunno know if it's true or anything.

But whoever it is, if we want the guy, we should move now. An exhaustive search doesnt help you if at the end you decide the guy you wanted is already gone.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

By the way - I don’t know who Vrabel wants - but say what you want about Josh McDaniels, but I would love Vrabel and McDaniels. McDaniels isn’t getting another head coaching gig and is just 48. He looked good with Brady but also with Mac Jones (Jones turned into a pumpkin as soon as McDaniels left) and the same was true with Matt Cassel that year Brady was hurt. 
 

Dabol would also be acceptable - and all would be very different personalities than any coach bears have had in 20 plus years. 

[BearFan PHX]

27 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

By the way - I don’t know who Vrabel wants - but say what you want about Josh McDaniels, but I would love Vrabel and McDaniels. McDaniels isn’t getting another head coaching gig and is just 48. He looked good with Brady but also with Mac Jones (Jones turned into a pumpkin as soon as McDaniels left) and the same was true with Matt Cassel that year Brady was hurt. 
 

Dabol would also be acceptable - and all would be very different personalities than any coach bears have had in 20 plus years. 

good point. McDaniels would be unlikely to leave for a HC job anytime soon

Daboll would be good too.

What do we think about Saleh as DC? I dont love the guy, but under Vrabel, it could work.

Edit - well he was pretty good as DC for Shanahan in SF, and he was on Carrol's legion of boom team as a quality control assistant.

Ill tell you what, if he brings in the Pete Carrol "theres only 5 ways to tackle someone" discipline, im ALL for it. and he preaches turnovers too.

If we had three former HC on staff, itd be a huge departure from what weve had before thats for sure.

More and more Im becoming convinced that Vrabel is the right answer for us.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

8 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

good point. McDaniels would be unlikely to leave for a HC job anytime soon

Daboll would be good too.

What do we think about Saleh as DC? I dont love the guy, but under Vrabel, it could work.

Edit - well he was pretty good as DC for Shanahan in SF, and he was on Carrol's legion of boom team as a quality control assistant.

Ill tell you what, if he brings in the Pete Carrol "theres only 5 ways to tackle someone" discipline, im ALL for it. and he preaches turnovers too.

If we had three former HC on staff, itd be a huge departure from what weve had before thats for sure.

More and more Im becoming convinced that Vrabel is the right answer for us.

Saleh would be an excellent DC. I don’t know how much trust Vrabel has but I presume if they can develop a good working relationship that would be awesome. If Bears went Kingsbury or Johnson or some other OC - Saleh would be #1 on my list as a DC.
 

Given Vrabel is a defensive guy he may just have someone he has already worked well with though that he would lean on, but man a staff with Vrabel - Saleh - McDaniels. That is different than any staff Bears have had and with very different personalities than they are used to - far more alpha. Oh and it would be more expensive too - this goes back to, this whole direction would be awesome as it would be so different from what Bears have been doing. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Another name is Mike McDaniels of Miami moves on. Brilliant offensive mind - not sure he would jump into an OC job or not. 

[Bears4Ever_34]

11 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I’m confused - Patriots just hired their head coach last year. If they wanted Vrabel they could have hired him a year ago and they chose another route - I can’t see them moving on after one year. 
 

I think Cowboys would be the competition for Vrabel. 

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there was a stipulation as part of Belichick's contract that dictated they hired Mayo if he decided to step down. Similar to Bill Parcels when he left the Jets and had it written into his contract that they'd automatically hire Belichick.

There are rumors about Vrabel being interested in the Ohio State job if they fire Ryan Day. Otherwise, the Raiders have always been the most likely team speculated for Vrabel because of the connection to Brady.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Excluding the actual dream scenario of landing McVay, Shanahan, or Stefanski in a trade, my ideal HC/DC pairing is Ben Johnson with either Robert Saleh or Rex Ryan. God, wouldn't that be fun? 

Rex has already been calling Ben Johnson the next Bill Walsh (lol) for months on ESPN, basically begging the Bears to hire Johnson. Part of me wonders if the two of them have ever spoken to each other before about the Bears job. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

6 hours ago, Bears4Ever_34 said:

Excluding the actual dream scenario of landing McVay, Shanahan, or Stefanski in a trade, my ideal HC/DC pairing is Ben Johnson with either Robert Saleh or Rex Ryan. God, wouldn't that be fun? 

Rex has already been calling Ben Johnson the next Bill Walsh (lol) for months on ESPN, basically begging the Bears to hire Johnson. Part of me wonders if the two of them have ever spoken to each other before about the Bears job. 

Johnson and Saleh is a good pairing in my mind.  

[BearFan PHX]

I completely agree that Johnson is an excellent OC. But what makes us think he will be a good HC? I dont see the alphness or leadership qualities in his interviews or mic'ed up footage. He doesnt need to be jacked up like Vrabel, but I look at a guy like McVey, who has a similar physicality to Johnson, and the energy is really different. The confidence and power is big with McVey, and not Johnson.

Whoever our next coach is has to bring these players back from the edge. At best it is a gamble to think the Johnson will be able to do that - meaning, maybe he will, but it is unknown.

I understand that looking at the smart offense Johnson runs why we would want that for us, for Caleb. If we were talking about OC, it'd be a no brianer - Id rather have Johnson than anyone else - I love the way he uses the running game, and his rhythm in playcalling, how he sets people up. It's all excellent.

But head coach is not the same as OC, so make sure you dont fall in love with his offense without considering his ability as a head coach. I think it's a real risk at a time where we shouldnt be taking one.

Think of Josh McDaniels. Hes a great OC. Maybe our next one But he has been a terrible head coach twice.

Head coach and OC are not the same job. I wouldnt want Dan Campbell as our OC, but he is a really good HC. The dolphins hired Adam Gase to replace Campbell who had been interim head coach.Gase hed been a hot OC, but was a terrible head coach.

For me, it's Vrabel easily. For head coach, not OC.

[BearFan PHX]

What you'd never hear from Eberflus or Nagy
 

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

What you'd never hear from Eberflus or Nagy
 

 

Yeah - This is exactly what I mean. McCaskeys don’t go for this - but this is exactly what Bears need from its head coach. The directness of some of those statements but you also know the players will play for him and appreciate that warrior mentality. And I think the city will love him too!