Week 15 Official Game Thread - Bears at Vikings, DEC 16th, 7pm, ABC, CHI +7, O/U 43.5

[ASHKUM BEAR]

David Montegomery tore MCL and could be out for the season.  Good lord, watch the Bears pull off a W and end up drafting 12th or worse. 

[BearFan PHX]

5 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Yeah I was curious about that.  Watching the team last night I had a feeling many of them were still trying to win . I didn’t get a feeling that Brown has lost the room just that things were so messy after the breakup with Flus they haven’t been able to get back on track. Browns meteoric rise from pass coordinator (?) to HC in a few weeks would definitely take some getting used to.  Doing so in real time I'm sure is mind boggling.  

I think even Aikman mentioned as much a few times last night. He said what Brown had to do was nearly impossible and he himself had two rough years (his rookie 0-11 season among them) before the right guy was in place to get it all right.  

Im not a fan of hiring Brown to be head coach. Im not even sure he has done enough to get an offensive coordinator's position right now, but building a team and a playbook starts in training camp and it is almost impossible to turn something like this around in a couple weeks.

It all begins in August, which is why Poles was an idiot to retain Eberflus.

[Stinger226]

To defend Brown he showed promise with play calling for 3 weeks working with Caleb, not HC. He has to much on his plate righr now.

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

To defend Brown he showed promise with play calling for 3 weeks working with Caleb, not HC. He has to much on his plate righr now.

Well Waldron's playcalling was SOOOO terrible, and he was abandoning the run game so that when Brown came in and just called plays normally, it looked like a huge step up. But that doesnt mean it was actively GOOD or would beat good teams, it just looked better than the crap we are used to.

Watch the Chiefs, or the Bills or the 49ers etc and youll see GOOD playcalling. Then you will realize how unprofessional our product has been for so long.

Im not haitng on Brown, he may have a bright future, but it really shows you how bad weve had it, when we are all drooling over a guy who was an OC last year and had playcalling taken away from him, then was an assistant coach who wasnt even allowed to talk to our QB - suddenly he is OC, and does OK, ad we are ready to make him a head coach.

None of this is a fair audition for Borwn of course. You need to have a team in August to install your vision and be judged on it, but neither is it proof that brown is any good at all. Right now, he is at best an unknown.

[Stinger226]

Agree with all of that but Caleb was better in those games, proof is in the pudding. That's only a positive, i never said to giv hhim the keys to the car, ts a small sample size. Clearly overwhelmed being both. Was better in the booth where he could see better.

[BearFan PHX]

15 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Agree with all of that but Caleb was better in those games, proof is in the pudding. That's only a positive, i never said to giv hhim the keys to the car, ts a small sample size. Clearly overwhelmed being both. Was better in the booth where he could see better.

there is no doubt Brown was an improvement over Waldron as OC. Brown didnt abandon the running game.

But why are we not rolling Caleb out more? Where are the slant routes and other timing plays? Where is the short play action game?

Brown was better, but not good enough.

And again, I don't fully judge Brown for that, because to do that, you'd have to have the team from August where you can install your own playbook, habits, timing, all of that. But just because there are resons or excuses why it isn't working doesnt mean it would be great if Brown had had the team since the summer.

So like I said, the most charitable thing I can say is that he is an unknown. And surely, this mess is not all on him 100%

[AZ54]

5 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

David Montegomery tore MCL and could be out for the season.  Good lord, watch the Bears pull off a W and end up drafting 12th or worse. 

Bummer I always liked him and hate to see that.  From his time at Iowa State to the Bears and then Detroit he never quit on a play regardless of score or the teams record.  

[BearFan PHX]

7 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Bummer I always liked him and hate to see that.  From his time at Iowa State to the Bears and then Detroit he never quit on a play regardless of score or the teams record.  

yeah DM is a hell of a player. Love his heart and how much he gives of himself. I hope he heals quickly and fully.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

13 hours ago, AZ54 said:

If they were going to fire Poles they should have done that already.  There is nothing more you will learn in your evaluation of him in these last 5 games.  Ownership being clueless as they are so it wouldn't surprise me to see them make a late decision on Poles and fire him.  If they want a new GM they should have already begun that search so it's wrapped up by the end of the season and the new GM can focus on hiring the coaches and then the draft.  

Scores being what they are lead to narratives but what I saw was a Bears team that is much closer to the Vikings talent than the score or records indicate.   Again coaching decisions and poor execution (Kramer lack of reporting) took us away from a winnable game.  I'm ok with it at this point what would going 3-3 over the last part of the season do for us except move us further down the draft board?   Since I was flipping over the Falcons/Raiders game at times I can say the Bears put a lot better product on the field than either of those two teams.  

I was expecting to just get run over down the middle all game long.  For sure there were some bad run defense plays but it also stiffened up at times and kept us in the game.  The DT Ford they picked up from GB at 6'5" 335lbs looked stout in the run game and made some good plays for us.  I'm not going to assign him anything more than the fact he deserves more snaps in the next game so we can see what he's got.  Amegadjie looks like he has potential but needs work.  That's a tough start on the road against a challenging defense.  

Caleb really needs an OC who will get in his face and make him work to the timing of the play.  He trended in that direction mid-year and now he's trending back the other way.  

 

In past I would say that - now I feel like maybe Warren picks best of both and you can shift the power structure slightly. Not saying it’s perfect but it would be different than what they have done in past and that structure certainly had worked for other orgs. 

[50england50]

I think Poles has hit on more than he's missed. We don't really know if Poles originally chose Flus, but he did choose to not go in a different direction this year.   I can see why, because the trajectory from last year looked good. 

My main thoughts from Monday night is, do we now take Caleb out of the firing line, because I cannot see what he's going to learn or gain from playing out and getting pulverized behind this porous offensive line. Describing them as being offensive is the right word choice, because its been criminal if any of them think they have offered any level of protection to him this year. I would be happy with putting all of this years’ resources into O line because they have been shocking in the run and passing game. 

[AZ54]

5 hours ago, 50england50 said:

I think Poles has hit on more than he's missed. We don't really know if Poles originally chose Flus, but he did choose to not go in a different direction this year.   I can see why, because the trajectory from last year looked good. 

My main thoughts from Monday night is, do we now take Caleb out of the firing line, because I cannot see what he's going to learn or gain from playing out and getting pulverized behind this porous offensive line. Describing them as being offensive is the right word choice, because its been criminal if any of them think they have offered any level of protection to him this year. I would be happy with putting all of this years’ resources into O line because they have been shocking in the run and passing game. 

I'd be ok with that.  Sit back, watch for a bit because I think it will help him clear his mind.  He's been roughed up plenty in recent games just list him as having an injury because he's definitely bruised up.  That knee took a shot too a week ago.   The only downside might be if Bagent goes out there and wins a game.  I don't think he'd forgive the team for that.  

[BearFan PHX]

Yeah and watch Bagent win the game and all hell breaks loose LOL

Please dont get me wrong, Ill take Caleb over Bagent for our future all day long, but it is possible that at this moment, Bagent would be better, since he gets the ball out of his hands so fast.

And if Bagent has success, this circus will go up in massive flames.

It's a hell of a risk, even as it seems like it's removing another risk.

Trying to do the right thing for this dysfunctional team is pretty much impossible right now.

[Stinger226]

On 12/17/2024 at 8:35 PM, BearFan PHX said:

there is no doubt Brown was an improvement over Waldron as OC. Brown didnt abandon the running game.

But why are we not rolling Caleb out more? Where are the slant routes and other timing plays? Where is the short play action game?

Brown was better, but not good enough.

And again, I don't fully judge Brown for that, because to do that, you'd have to have the team from August where you can install your own playbook, habits, timing, all of that. But just because there are resons or excuses why it isn't working doesnt mean it would be great if Brown had had the team since the summer.

So like I said, the most charitable thing I can say is that he is an unknown. And surely, this mess is not all on him 100%

It is what it is, its not making excuses for anybody, its just taking notes as I watch the season turn into a diaster. 

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

It is what it is, its not making excuses for anybody, its just taking notes as I watch the season turn into a diaster. 

Oh I didn't mean you were making excuses, I'm speaking just to the evaluation that happens in all of our minds. I'm guarding against myself putting too much faith in the reasons (or excuses) why it isn't really Brown's fault. Because it isn't. But that still doesn't mean he would be excellent if he was HC of the team in August, it just means we cant know either way. And in the hole we are in, that isn't enough in my view.

I didnt think you were disagreeing.