3x OC Options for HC

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I really am in camp of McCarthy is a gift that fell in their laps. He knows offenses, he knows how to work with QBs, and he is going to get a ton out of Caleb and get this franchise headed in right direction. 
 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I really am in camp of McCarthy is a gift that fell in their laps. He knows offenses, he knows how to work with QBs, and he is going to get a ton out of Caleb and get this franchise headed in right direction. 
 

I love it. He will set the culture, and develop Caleb. Best of both worlds.

[Stinger226]

He definitely has a resume and would not be a bad choice but prefer Johnson at this point. Why did 2 teams let him go? I think he's not winning the big games his is downfall. How long ago was he in the SB? 2011 ? That was a long time ago.

[BearFan PHX]

12 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

He definitely has a resume and would not be a bad choice but prefer Johnson at this point. Why did 2 teams let him go? I think he's not winning the big games his is downfall. How long ago was he in the SB? 2011 ? That was a long time ago.

you need players too.

Johnson has the best OL in football, and his offense is predicated on play action passing. Of course everything is working.

And don't get me wrong - I love how Johnson shows you something and maybe twice and then uses your expectations to go the other way when you think youve read the play. That kind of conditioning is really great for offenses. Contrast that with Nagy's "you cant tell what we are doing" approach which doesnt work as well.

But Johnson isnt the only coach that gets this. Lots of pro coaches know this.

Schemes come and go. But players win games, and coaches build cultures. yes we need an OC who understands schemes, but that isn't so hard to find. McCarthy will have lots of contacts, and a good idea of who would be good choices to hire from among people we havent heard of yet, because of his years at the Packers and the Cowboys.

His winning percentage over a large sample size is impressive. A lot of the super bowls he didnt win were won by the Patriots and the Chiefs. So you can indict the entire rest of the league for not being Belichick or Reid, but then again, they have/had Brady and Mahomes.

Mahomes wins all these superbowls, some with Nagy around, so maybe Caleb has a higher ceiling than Dak Prescott? Maybe that's where McCarthy will get over the hump?

Also, you cant overlook the experience head coaches get over time. Belichick was not great with the Browns, Reid didnt win the big one with Philly. By your logic, youd have overlooked both?

Johnson is smart, but Trestman was smart too. He got our offense moving, but the team didnt have that edge, the defense fell apart, and you know the rest.

Let's get a head coach to be the head coach, and an OC to be the OC.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

6 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

He definitely has a resume and would not be a bad choice but prefer Johnson at this point.

The only real concern I have with Johnson, besides relatively unproven outside of Detroit is that Goffs production the last three years were very similar to his last three with the Rams.  Which begs to ask, is Johnson or Goff the reason for their offense success?  It would be sorta like comparing how Nagy looked in KC before coming to Chicago. 

[Mongo3451]

37 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

It would be sorta like comparing how Nagy looked in KC before coming to Chicago. 

Nagy was never the driving force of KC's offense.  Still isn't...

[DABEARSDABOMB]

By the way - put yourself in Ryan Poles or even Kevin Warren's shoes. I really think at this point its down to Johnson or McCarthy.  Johnson is the top young, potential high upside unknown on the market.  McCarthy is the stable, high floor, good coach, with a proven track record of getting the most out of his QB's (and by the way his players genuinely seem to love him).  

You are sitting there in those seats and thinking of longevity - do you go for the homerun that could look like a disaster in 2 years or do you hire McCarthy and basically in reality that should (anything can happen) buy you a few years, if the ship is turning and you are heading in right direction...in 4-5 years you could always now pivot to say, its time to find the high upside coach who can jump in....but you are now 5 years down the road if you are Poles, if you've made the playoffs say 3 or 4 out of those 5 years...you are NOT on the hotseat, and instead are looking at another hire and probably a pretty safe path to say 10 years in the seat.  In fairness - anything could happen, McCarthy could come in, you know he's got a high floor and it starts to show that Poles draft's and FA moves have been wrong and now he is out and McCarthy is staying (even in that scenario - if I'm Warren, I at least know I've put Caleb with a proven, bright offensive mind who is GOOD with QB's - so I've protected the franchise from that standpoint).

I just think of the above and while there is the allure of Ben Johnson - do you really wait 3 weeks for the chance of Johnson and if you meet with Mike and really say hey this guy is different than what we've had in Chicago for a long time, this guy is Chicago, this guy is really good...do you really let him leave the building and interview for New Orleans while you chase the allure or Ben Johnson (who is going to get a huge offer from the Raiders - no doubt about it in my mind)?  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

4 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

By the way - put yourself in Ryan Poles or even Kevin Warren's shoes. I really think at this point its down to Johnson or McCarthy.  Johnson is the top young, potential high upside unknown on the market.  McCarthy is the stable, high floor, good coach, with a proven track record of getting the most out of his QB's (and by the way his players genuinely seem to love him).  

You are sitting there in those seats and thinking of longevity - do you go for the homerun that could look like a disaster in 2 years or do you hire McCarthy and basically in reality that should (anything can happen) buy you a few years, if the ship is turning and you are heading in right direction...in 4-5 years you could always now pivot to say, its time to find the high upside coach who can jump in....but you are now 5 years down the road if you are Poles, if you've made the playoffs say 3 or 4 out of those 5 years...you are NOT on the hotseat, and instead are looking at another hire and probably a pretty safe path to say 10 years in the seat.  In fairness - anything could happen, McCarthy could come in, you know he's got a high floor and it starts to show that Poles draft's and FA moves have been wrong and now he is out and McCarthy is staying (even in that scenario - if I'm Warren, I at least know I've put Caleb with a proven, bright offensive mind who is GOOD with QB's - so I've protected the franchise from that standpoint).

I just think of the above and while there is the allure of Ben Johnson - do you really wait 3 weeks for the chance of Johnson and if you meet with Mike and really say hey this guy is different than what we've had in Chicago for a long time, this guy is Chicago, this guy is really good...do you really let him leave the building and interview for New Orleans while you chase the allure or Ben Johnson (who is going to get a huge offer from the Raiders - no doubt about it in my mind)?  

By the way - I said almost the same thing 12 years ago from Phil Emery's eyes on why Andy Reid was a no brainer to go get when the Eagles surprisingly moved on from him.  

[Mongo3451]

37 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

By the way - I said almost the same thing 12 years ago from Phil Emery's eyes on why Andy Reid was a no brainer to go get when the Eagles surprisingly moved on from him.  

I was pissed.  Same thing a few years later with Arians.

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

By the way - I said almost the same thing 12 years ago from Phil Emery's eyes on why Andy Reid was a no brainer to go get when the Eagles surprisingly moved on from him.  

damn can you imagine?!

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

By the way - put yourself in Ryan Poles or even Kevin Warren's shoes. I really think at this point its down to Johnson or McCarthy.  Johnson is the top young, potential high upside unknown on the market.  McCarthy is the stable, high floor, good coach, with a proven track record of getting the most out of his QB's (and by the way his players genuinely seem to love him).  

You are sitting there in those seats and thinking of longevity - do you go for the homerun that could look like a disaster in 2 years or do you hire McCarthy and basically in reality that should (anything can happen) buy you a few years, if the ship is turning and you are heading in right direction...in 4-5 years you could always now pivot to say, its time to find the high upside coach who can jump in....but you are now 5 years down the road if you are Poles, if you've made the playoffs say 3 or 4 out of those 5 years...you are NOT on the hotseat, and instead are looking at another hire and probably a pretty safe path to say 10 years in the seat.  In fairness - anything could happen, McCarthy could come in, you know he's got a high floor and it starts to show that Poles draft's and FA moves have been wrong and now he is out and McCarthy is staying (even in that scenario - if I'm Warren, I at least know I've put Caleb with a proven, bright offensive mind who is GOOD with QB's - so I've protected the franchise from that standpoint).

I just think of the above and while there is the allure of Ben Johnson - do you really wait 3 weeks for the chance of Johnson and if you meet with Mike and really say hey this guy is different than what we've had in Chicago for a long time, this guy is Chicago, this guy is really good...do you really let him leave the building and interview for New Orleans while you chase the allure or Ben Johnson (who is going to get a huge offer from the Raiders - no doubt about it in my mind)?  

This is exactly my thinking too.

You took the job security CYA approach to explaining it, but it also goes for what is best for the franchise too.

If we become a yearly playoff team, and can't get over the hump, then it would be a good time to bring in that hot shot scheme guy, after the foundation is set.

But there is nothing about hiring McCarthy that means we cant get a hot shot OC too. This is also true of Carroll, who has the added plus that the OC would be an asst head coach and heir apparent. That means you dont lose the guy AND you can probably get the best candidates too because of the increased title and opportunity.

I prefer McCarthy or Carroll (I dont know which I want more?) over Ben Johnson for SURE.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

10 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Nagy was never the driving force of KC's offense.  Still isn't...

Yup. I think people were tricked into thinking he was some sort of offensive genius.   Once we found out first hand he wasn’t it became much more who obvious who runs their offense in KC (Reid).  Especially when Bienemy left to Washington and UCLA only to flame out in both places. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

12 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Yup. I think people were tricked into thinking he was some sort of offensive genius.   Once we found out first hand he wasn’t it became much more who obvious who runs their offense in KC (Reid).  Especially when Bienemy left to Washington and UCLA only to flame out in both places. 

Reid called the plays to start the season and handed it off to Nagy, who was technically the OC,  and results we not much better.  I

[adam]

I am kinda at the point where I want Johnson, would be fine with Monken or Brady (for Caleb Dev), but understand if they went with McCarthy. Wild card is Matt Campbell. Thoughts?

[Stinger226]

6 hours ago, adam said:

I am kinda at the point where I want Johnson, would be fine with Monken or Brady (for Caleb Dev), but understand if they went with McCarthy. Wild card is Matt Campbell. Thoughts?

Totally in the same place. I want a high energy alpha coaching our team? Which one is that? Is McCarthy a hard ass? I have never thought that. I think Monken is that personally type. I think the wild card may be Kingsbury. Been with Caleb, former HC, development of QBs. Maybe AZ54 has insight into Kingsbury time in AZ.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Totally in the same place. I want a high energy alpha coaching our team? Which one is that? Is McCarthy a hard ass? I have never thought that. I think Monken is that personally type. I think the wild card may be Kingsbury. Been with Caleb, former HC, development of QBs. Maybe AZ54 has insight into Kingsbury time in AZ.

He got fired after the team fell apart.  Not really unlike what we've seen in Chicago with Nagy wherer he had a brief flash of goodness before reality hit.  

[AZ54]

7 hours ago, adam said:

I am kinda at the point where I want Johnson, would be fine with Monken or Brady (for Caleb Dev), but understand if they went with McCarthy. Wild card is Matt Campbell. Thoughts?

Matt Campbell...love his leadership and what he's done at my alma mater but he has no NFL experience.  Caleb needs NFL experience in his ear.  

[AZ54]

I think we’re all know this.  what we don’t know is who is the leading candidate.  Whatever the Bears are thinking having a 2 horse race gives them a little bit of negotiating power on the contract.  But that won’t last long.  
 

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bears/2025/01/16/nfl-insider-claims-bears-head-coach-job-is-down-to-2-candidates/77755968007/

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I think we’re all know this.  what we don’t know is who is the leading candidate.  Whatever the Bears are thinking having a 2 horse race gives them a little bit of negotiating power on the contract.  But that won’t last long.  
 

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bears/2025/01/16/nfl-insider-claims-bears-head-coach-job-is-down-to-2-candidates/77755968007/

I think that for the last year, and until a week or two ago, Poles knew Johnson was his top target. Now that McCarthy is in the mix, that calculus might be changing. I just hope Poles is flexible enough mentally to reevaluate his situation, and isn't stuck in mental inertia, having trouble letting go of his earlier thoughts.

I think about how he almost traded up with the Giants to get Odunze. Is he flexible enough to deal with a change in the situation? Or is he too dogged and has trouble letting go of plans?

I sure hope he isn't thinking about playing them off of each other, or worse yet, likes McCarthy best but is waiting to do due diligence on Johnson. That would be a huge mistake.

If you like McCarthy best right now GRAB HIM, you dont wait to make your bets until you've seen everyone's cards. It's too late then. Like you say, it won't last long.

On the other hand, if he IS flexible, and he still prefers Johnson, then while I might not agree with his choice, then he is still playing his cards right.

I really don't trust Poles.

[BearFan PHX]

Interesting thought on Waddle and Silvy today with Michael Wilbon.

If we do go with Ben Johnson, what about Ron Rivera as DC? He would certainly bring accountability to the locker room. he could play that Dan Campbell role for us from the DC position, and he could give head coaching experience advice to Johnson who would be new to it.

I gotta say, I don't hate the idea of having a tough former head coach as DC to address some of the worries i have about Johnson.

And that said, i would keep 10 miles away from Flores in any role.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Interesting thought on Waddle and Silvy today with Michael Wilbon.

If we do go with Ben Johnson, what about Ron Rivera as DC? He would certainly bring accountability to the locker room. he could play that Dan Campbell role for us from the DC position, and he could give head coaching experience advice to Johnson who would be new to it.

I gotta say, I don't hate the idea of having a tough former head coach as DC to address some of the worries i have about Johnson.

And that said, i would keep 10 miles away from Flores in any role.

The concept of a experience HC to help Johnson transition is a perfect storm. He brings the macho that I don't know if Johnson has. I never liked McCarthy but he fits everything you are looking for. Leader, offensive coach, success, won a SB. Believes in D and the running game. They say NO is interested but that can't be attractive to any coach with huge Cap problem. We could wait and if Johnson bails, I think McCarthy is still available. He may gain more favor with other teams. I will say winning in Dallas with all the Jones interference is a feather in his cap.

[AZ54]

I listened to Waddle and Silvy with Greg Olsen yesterday.  Olsen it’s my favorite broadcast analyst so I wanted his thoughts on our coaching options.    They asked him about McCarthy and he raved about him for 5 minutes and all the good things he do for the Bears.   Then they talked about different offensive schemes and what Greg like among the NFL options.  He said in todays game he liked the Shanahan LeFleur style the most with compressed sets and how that helps Oline and QB.  He added that Johnson does some of that too but mixes in a little of everything.   McCarthy is still running the same old west coast stuff.   Then when asked about how he graded an OC he said it’s all about getting the chunk plays and nobody does that better than Johnson.   You always see guys wide open in every Detroit game.  Not every play of course but that he can set them up within the game but running and passing.  Then they asked him if you were running the Bears who are you signing as HC.  He said Johnson.  After all the chatter about how great McCarthy is he is choosing the newer more innovative offensive mind.  

[Lucky Luciano]

18 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Then they asked him if you were running the Bears who are you signing as HC.  He said Johnson.  After all the chatter about how great McCarthy is he is choosing the newer more innovative offensive mind.  

i'm all in on that. johnson and if that doesn't work for whatever reason pete carroll. screw mccarthy.

[Lucky Luciano]

or maybe johnson with carroll as assistant HC? that would be nice. a temp assistant to get johnson up to speed and show him the ropes.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Lucky Luciano said:

or maybe johnson with carroll as assistant HC? that would be nice. a temp assistant to get johnson up to speed and show him the ropes.

Id love that, but I dont see either of them agreeing to that.

I think the best hope is to get a strong culture builder as DC, maybe Ron RIvera?