3x OC Options for HC

[Mongo3451]

Watching this, I think Johnson has the chops to command a room...

[ASHKUM BEAR]

One thing that hits my mind in Ben Johnson possible not being a leader of warriors is Vikings HC Kevin OConnell. 

OConnell reminds me of a man child, with his boyish looks.  His voice isn't commanding either.  But he has led the Vikings because he has a great offensive mind, teamed with Flores, they have a great combo.  

With this comparison, I think we can take a different angle when trying to judge Ben Johnson as a HC.  

Lastly, Nagy was never really a OC at KC. He was a QB coach who had the title and sat under Andy Reid.  So to say we can't take another OC because of Nagy, I think is off as well.  

Merry Christmas

[BearFan PHX]

12 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Watching this, I think Johnson has the chops to command a room...

I don't feel it at all - it's all good we just disagree about it.

To me he feels corporate and assistant-ish, deferential. Confident, but because of his title, not like shines from inside confidence. And again, it's cool if we read him differently. I don't want to turn this discussion over the next months into anyone checking any one else's man card or ability to read strength or anything like that. I respect you, Mongo, and I respect most on this board as grown men, so this subject could be dicey.

I look at this, and it feels different.
 

 

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

One thing that hits my mind in Ben Johnson possible not being a leader of warriors is Vikings HC Kevin OConnell. 

OConnell reminds me of a man child, with his boyish looks.  His voice isn't commanding either.  But he has led the Vikings because he has a great offensive mind, teamed with Flores, they have a great combo.  

With this comparison, I think we can take a different angle when trying to judge Ben Johnson as a HC.  

Lastly, Nagy was never really a OC at KC. He was a QB coach who had the title and sat under Andy Reid.  So to say we can't take another OC because of Nagy, I think is off as well.  

Merry Christmas

Vrabel obviously has a commanding physical presence, but as you say that isnt necessary. Leadership is. I see guys like McVey and Shanahan who are not physically imposing, but their chests speak dominance. Not that they are muscular, just their body language, to me, looks like a leader.

Your example of OConnell is a good one. I agree he doesnt have the thing I'm talking about, but his team has been successful. I don't think they've beaten many good teams, but we almost beat them a few weeks ago. But Im not gonna try to argue that the Vikings arent really that good, no matter how you get to 13-2, it's still good of course.

I wouldnt trust a guy like that to lead the Bears. But I agree you made a good point with him as an example. I dunno how long it will last, but at 13-2 you have the right to claim that example until they falter, and I cant prove they ever will.

I just think in general those kind of guys cant keep the team together if they hit adversity?

[Mongo3451]

17 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I don't feel it at all - it's all good we just disagree about it.

To me he feels corporate and assistant-ish, deferential. Confident, but because of his title, not like shines from inside confidence. And again, it's cool if we read him differently. I don't want to turn this discussion over the next months into anyone checking any one else's man card or ability to read strength or anything like that. I respect you, Mongo, and I respect most on this board as grown men, so this subject could be dicey.

I look at this, and it feels different.
 

 

My thing with Johnson is he talks without reservation and because he doesn't care what you think.  He also is self deprecating, which tells me he's comfortable in his own skin.  IE: his own man.  Lastly, he knows exactly what his players are and how to weaponize them.  Brilliant people know when they have you.  It's chess vs checkers.  Bill Walsh had it.  Maybe Ben Johnson does too.

[BearFan PHX]

3 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

My thing with Johnson is he talks without reservation and because he doesn't care what you think.  He also is self deprecating, which tells me he's comfortable in his own skin.  IE: his own man.  Lastly, he knows exactly what his players are and how to weaponize them.  Brilliant people know when they have you.  It's chess vs checkers.  Bill Walsh had it.  Maybe Ben Johnson does too.

I see that too. I dont see him as uncomfortable or insecure, the way Thomas Brown is in press conferences. I just see him as an assistant type. Same as Kevin OConnell, I agree.

At some point soon we will all have said what we think and there will be no point in debating it further. I dont want to sound like a broken record, and I dont have any proof of anything, so it's just a gut call.

I do absolutely recognize Johnson's offensive scheme skills. If we could have him as OC, I'd do it in a heartbeat, so I get it. And if he can do that for us, it will be great.

If we hire any of these guys, I'm gonna be all in, and hope for the positive traits to win out.

I just personally cant help but to think that this team needs a strong identity and not just a big brain. I feel like the Bears need a chip on their shoulder so I prefer Vrabel. If we do go with Vrabel, then Im gonna want a guy very much like Johnson for OC, and it'll matter a lot who it is.

[Mongo3451]

11 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I see that too. I dont see him as uncomfortable or insecure, the way Thomas Brown is in press conferences. I just see him as an assistant type. Same as Kevin OConnell, I agree.

At some point soon we will all have said what we think and there will be no point in debating it further. I dont want to sound like a broken record, and I dont have any proof of anything, so it's just a gut call.

I do absolutely recognize Johnson's offensive scheme skills. If we could have him as OC, I'd do it in a heartbeat, so I get it. And if he can do that for us, it will be great.

If we hire any of these guys, I'm gonna be all in, and hope for the positive traits to win out.

I just personally cant help but to think that this team needs a strong identity and not just a big brain. I feel like the Bears need a chip on their shoulder so I prefer Vrabel. If we do go with Vrabel, then Im gonna want a guy very much like Johnson for OC, and it'll matter a lot who it is.

IMO - the best of both worlds is Gruden.  Strong leader, proven, offensive minded and swag for days.  I remember being at a function and Bobby Knight walked in.  He instantly owned the room.  That's Chucky.  I don't think Vrabel or Johnson have that.  But I do believe people would bend an hear to hear Johnson speak before Vrabel.  In the end, you're right about different opinions and how people see things.  I just hope we get it right.

[BearFan PHX]

15 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

IMO - the best of both worlds is Gruden.  Strong leader, proven, offensive minded and swag for days.  I remember being at a function and Bobby Knight walked in.  He instantly owned the room.  That's Chucky.  I don't think Vrabel or Johnson have that.  But I do believe people would bend an hear to hear Johnson speak before Vrabel.  In the end, you're right about different opinions and how people see things.  I just hope we get it right.

If that scandal didnt exist, Id fully agree about Gruden. And you said it well about commanding a room. And the scandal doesnt really bother me, but I don't know how it plays with each player, many of whom have chosen to put "stop hate" on their helmets. But im not even saying I know what theyd think. I just dont know how to value it for each player at all.

I also really hope we get it right, and i am less interested in having called it correctly than I am in Caleb becoming an all time great QB. If that happens with any of these guys, i will be ecstatic!

[Stinger226]

Actual there is something to like about all of the leading canidates but whoever they pick wining needs to be the grading stick. We just need  a winner. I wouldnt care if I didnt know the name, or if it wasnt the person I wanted, they just need to make us a SB contender. Even with the terrible year, I think we still have a lot of talent on the team. Its hard to believe one play can derail a season but with bad coaching and strange plays bloeing up games, we completely failed. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Pete Carroll enters the chat. 
 

[jason]

58 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Pete Carroll enters the chat. 
 

Sold. Bring in Carroll. He’s got the undeniable pedigree. Check the rings. He’s got swag. He controls a room with Pat Riley vibe. Pay him, give him full authority, and get the F out of the way.

Poles and Carroll can talk draft. After that, get the F out of the way.

Warren? Never heard of her. Get the F out of the way.

McCaskeys? Seriously, sign the checks and get the F out of the way for good.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, jason said:

Warren? Never heard of her. Get the F out of the way.

Ha!

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, jason said:

Sold. Bring in Carroll. He’s got the undeniable pedigree. Check the rings. He’s got swag. He controls a room with Pat Riley vibe. Pay him, give him full authority, and get the F out of the way.

Poles and Carroll can talk draft. After that, get the F out of the way.

Warren? Never heard of her. Get the F out of the way.

McCaskeys? Seriously, sign the checks and get the F out of the way for good.

Carroll recomended Waldron for the OC job. I also heard Ron Rivera name mentioned as a link to the job, a person McCaskeys might like. I would, again , say Jon Gruden if we are digging up old skelitons for the job.

[Mongo3451]

5 hours ago, jason said:

Sold. Bring in Carroll. He’s got the undeniable pedigree. Check the rings. He’s got swag. He controls a room with Pat Riley vibe. Pay him, give him full authority, and get the F out of the way.

Poles and Carroll can talk draft. After that, get the F out of the way.

Warren? Never heard of her. Get the F out of the way.

McCaskeys? Seriously, sign the checks and get the F out of the way for good.

Hell no!  I don't want any Jurassic Park coaches.  Especially once that just got ran...

[BearFan PHX]

A guy like Pete Carroll will know how to run an offense. He wont be giving the ball to a converted offensive lineman at the goalline in a critical moment - he will know to give it to our power back to run in, and not fool around, with, say a slant pass or something.

LOL

Its a cheap shot, just a joke

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I think we ran our course through coach search discussions.   It is A.) Ben Johnson and B.) Mike Vrable.  

Out of these two, can Johnson build a good enough staff to match his offensive mind.  Can Vrabel bring an offensive mind to match his complete coaching expertise. 

I think this might be what it comes down to.   

[BearFan PHX]

32 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I think we ran our course through coach search discussions.   It is A.) Ben Johnson and B.) Mike Vrable.  

Out of these two, can Johnson build a good enough staff to match his offensive mind.  Can Vrabel bring an offensive mind to match his complete coaching expertise. 

I think this might be what it comes down to.   

That's how i see it too - those are the two scenarios, and the associated questions that go along with each of them. And does Johnson have what it takes to lead as a Head Coach.

[Lucky Luciano]

8 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Hell no!  I don't want any Jurassic Park coaches.  Especially once that just got ran...

i hear ya. age may be a factor. that said, he is 73. at that age he should have at least 3 years in his tank. that is enough time to groom williams. also consider this...

Quote

Carroll's collegiate success prompted an NFL return in 2010 when he was hired as the head coach of Seattle. In 14 seasons under Carroll, the Seahawks qualified for the playoffs 10 times, clinched their division five times, made two consecutive Super Bowl appearances, and won the franchise's first championship in Super Bowl XLVIII. The team's Legion of Boom defense also led the league in scoring defense for four consecutive seasons during his tenure.^[3] Following the 2023 season, Carroll stepped down as head coach to take an advisory position with the Seahawks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Carroll

at this point even coaches i dislike i will take if they can turn this franchise into a winner. he's been to 2 superbowls and won one. turned wilson into a very good qb. very good offensive lines in his tenure. even as an advisor in seattle they are in the playoffs this year.

he knows offense and can put together very good defenses.

[Lucky Luciano]

this is my list in no particular order:

johnson

pete carroll

john gruden

if they can pry shanahan out of san francisco he tops the list.

[Stinger226]

If people find Carroll atractive wasnt Belicheck the ultimate choice? More of everything? I dont want an old (John Fox ) type brought in.  I like the thought of Jon Gruden but he is 61. Mike Vrabel age is 49, Johnson is 38. I want a coach that will be here for the duration of the Caleb Williams era. These 3 fit that, Carroll does not. 

Williams has enough talent to overcome an average coach. Obviously a great coach takes us to a SB. Caleb has his ups and downs this year and all can not be blamed on bad coaching. As a rookie he has some growing to do. 

Joe Burrow was the last great QB to come into the league. He started 10 games and went 2-7-1. 65%-2688-13-5 and was sacked 32 times. Some may argue CJ Stroud but in his second year on a good team but  his shine has come off, just not playing as well . 62.7%-3677-19-12 and sacked 52 times. 

Caleb Williams 62.2%-3271-19-5 and sacked 60 times. In his rookie season he has endered Waldron-Flus and a limited Tom Brown. Vast number of injuries that has effected the OL an early successful D . 

I would be happy with Vrabel-Johnson-Gruden. Next yr will look totally different.

By the way;

Caleb Williams-442 yds rushing

Joe Burrow 142 yds rushing

CJ Stroud 167 yds rushing

 

[Lucky Luciano]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

If people find Carroll atractive wasnt Belicheck the ultimate choice? More of everything?

 

because belly took a job in college football. he could have been a coach in the NFL if he wanted it, but he didn't. he is ONE year younger than carroll.

also as i have stated in the past, take away very good and HOF qb's and belly's record sucks. carroll worked with nothing and continued to have success up till his departure in EVERY category we WANT. offense good to great, defense good to great.