3x OC Options for HC

[Lucky Luciano]

11 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Id love that, but I dont see either of them agreeing to that.

I think the best hope is to get a strong culture builder as DC, maybe Ron RIvera?

you never know about carroll. he is basically out because of age but would be a GREAT short term choice here as assistant HC or if no johnson i take him as HC for the 3 year window.

rivera would be a very good choice as DC especially if no carroll. has HC experience and certainly won't take any crap.

[Lucky Luciano]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

 McCarthy is still running the same old west coast stuff.  

if olson says that then that should scare the bejesus out of everyone. that system has been beaten 30 years ago. we would be doing the same thing as we did with lovie. rely on a system that is outdated and obsolete. not me, i don't want it or the freaking cover 2 like lovie ran.

[BearFan PHX]

33 minutes ago, Lucky Luciano said:

you never know about carroll. he is basically out because of age but would be a GREAT short term choice here as assistant HC or if no johnson i take him as HC for the 3 year window.

rivera would be a very good choice as DC especially if no carroll. has HC experience and certainly won't take any crap.

well I have never once met Pete Carroll, so for sure I don't know what he would or wouldn't do. If he was willing, I agree that'd be a great situation.

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Id love that, but I dont see either of them agreeing to that.

I think the best hope is to get a strong culture builder as DC, maybe Ron RIvera?

The HC needs to build the culture because it won't work the other way.  He can get advice from a former HC who is now DC or even OC (running Ben's system) but he must deliver the goods himself because sooner or later everyone will know he's the push over.   Kids figure out which parent to go for what they want well before they are 2.  

When Arians took over the Cardinals he said clearly he was firing everyone.  when he took over he didn't want anyone left around even if he knew them and they were good coaches.   He wanted people to know if they had a problem his way of doing business the only one they could talk to was him.  No commiserating with your (retained) position coach about how things were better with the old HC.  

I don't personally agree with that theory because I want the best coaches working for me, regardless of where they come from.  However, I do understand his point and if I hired him by default I'd be agreeing to let him do it his way.  It does highlight the importance of the culture running through the HC.  Arians had seen issues with that not happening at times in his career.  

[Stinger226]

On 12/23/2024 at 10:09 PM, Lucky Luciano said:

no on EVERY count.

1.  how often do we pick a franchise quality qb #1 overall? how often during our entire 100+ years in the nfl?

this is the brass ring. we need the best there is to form this rookie into a HOF qb if he has the talent. i really don't care what the record is during this development. in 3 years these are the KEY years to learn from the best to develop the mindset that will last a long career. if you hire a vrable it is a super unknown what we get as an OC and qb developer and for how long. why gamble the absolute most IMPORTANT player on your roster who could contribute for 15 YEARS? we have been to TWO freaking superbowls in over 50 YEARS and lost one of them due to poor qb play.

2.  johnson appears to understand the correlation between a GOOD offensive line and qb development. isn't that a prerequisite?

to believe caleb will "shine thru" with a "decent or average" OC is absurd. that is how the chicago bears have destroyed qb's or never even found one for multiple decades.

3.  another absurd statement... "A good defense and running helps Caleb just as much as a perfect OC."  we have had some pretty good defenses over the years. WHAT qb's are you talking about that this helped them as much as a perfect OC or even a competent one? where are our rings?

A perfect example of a great defense was 2018. It carried us with Tribisky as the QB . We had a good running game that year also. 

The key to this year is to get the right person to help Caleb but you ask 10 different people and you may get 10 different opinions who that person is.  Talent will rise to the top whether it's Carroll, Johnson or McCarthy. Now the right HC will accelerate that process. Obviously if we hire another Flus type that was be problematic. I think Caleb did decent with as bad as a situation as you can have in your rookie year.

So I agree that Johnson is probably the best choice for HC but what if he decides to go to the raiders? Just trade him because we didn't get the best choice? Which still will need to be proven, it's only a projection right now. I'm saying several choices could still allow Caleb to grow it's not just Johnson or everything bad. 

[Mongo3451]

At this point, if we don't get McCarthy, Carroll or Johnson there is going to be a mutiny of epic proportions.  Players and fans will know that this franchise is eternally f'd up.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

The HC needs to build the culture because it won't work the other way.  He can get advice from a former HC who is now DC or even OC (running Ben's system) but he must deliver the goods himself because sooner or later everyone will know he's the push over.   Kids figure out which parent to go for what they want well before they are 2.

Of course youre right. If Johnson is the head coach he will be the head coach, but Rivera could be bad cop. He will certainly demand accountibility on the defense, and that will bleed over too. I assume Johnson will too, but I am concerned about how tough he is. With Rivera here it mitigates some of my concerns.

[Stinger226]

4 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

At this point, if we don't get McCarthy, Carroll or Johnson there is going to be a mutiny of epic proportions.  Players and fans will know that this franchise is eternally f'd up.

I already thinks it's a f'd up franchise. Getting the right HC is probably the most important decision they have had in a long time. I thinks it's one of those but I'm sure they're a few that would be good I'm just not insightful enough to know  who that is. Brady and Monken might be good. None of them come with a guarantee but experience former HC gives a little more crede that we get it right.

[BearFan PHX]

While we wait for actual info - here's a question. Maybe it helps bring the qualities we will need into focus.

If you could have any head coach in the NFL, who would you choose?

Andy Reid is kind of obvious, but then you don't get to bring Mahomes with him. Just like Johnson cant bring his OL.

Also you get them at their current age.

Who is your #1 NFL coach to bring here?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

55 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

While we wait for actual info - here's a question. Maybe it helps bring the qualities we will need into focus.

If you could have any head coach in the NFL, who would you choose?

Andy Reid is kind of obvious, but then you don't get to bring Mahomes with him. Just like Johnson cant bring his OL.

Also you get them at their current age.

Who is your #1 NFL coach to bring here?

McVay followed by Shanny followed by Kevin O’Connel. 

[Lucky Luciano]

5 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

While we wait for actual info - here's a question. Maybe it helps bring the qualities we will need into focus.

If you could have any head coach in the NFL, who would you choose?

Andy Reid is kind of obvious, but then you don't get to bring Mahomes with him. Just like Johnson cant bring his OL.

Also you get them at their current age.

Who is your #1 NFL coach to bring here?

shannahan or ravens harbaugh

 

[Lucky Luciano]

15 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

well I have never once met Pete Carroll, so for sure I don't know what he would or wouldn't do. If he was willing, I agree that'd be a great situation.

they would both have to agree (this includes rivera as DC). if johnson is the man you CAN'T force any coaches on him or it's just the same ole same ole in chicago. you can give him the options if he takes the job and he makes the decisions.

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

they would both have to agree (this includes rivera as DC). if johnson is the man you CAN'T force any coaches on him or it's just the same ole same ole in chicago. you can give him the options if he takes the job and he makes the decisions.

I agree with this

[AZ54]

Seems like Johnson is expecting to go somewhere soon...

https://www.profootballrumors.com/

In anticipation for this expected interest, Johnson has hired a new agent, Rick Smith of Priority Sports, per Ryan Glasspiegel of Front Office Sports. Smith will likely be apprised of what Johnson’s preferences are and will be fielding phones calls for second interviews as soon as he becomes available.

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Seems like Johnson is expecting to go somewhere soon...

https://www.profootballrumors.com/

In anticipation for this expected interest, Johnson has hired a new agent, Rick Smith of Priority Sports, per Ryan Glasspiegel of Front Office Sports. Smith will likely be apprised of what Johnson’s preferences are and will be fielding phones calls for second interviews as soon as he becomes available.

A lot of journalists have made connections to the Raiders because of Brady and he could bring a GM with him. They don't have a first round pick this year, no QB of promise and play in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Bo Nix. As tough as our division is we have JJ McCarthy, Jordon Love and an old Goff as rivals. Which job sounds better?

[AZ54]

36 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

A lot of journalists have made connections to the Raiders because of Brady and he could bring a GM with him. They don't have a first round pick this year, no QB of promise and play in a division with Mahomes, Herbert and Bo Nix. As tough as our division is we have JJ McCarthy, Jordon Love and an old Goff as rivals. Which job sounds better?

The Raiders are also paying $28mil for fired head coaches.  It's hard to see that team paying top dollar for another coach but who knows.  

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

The Raiders are also paying $28mil for fired head coaches.  It's hard to see that team paying top dollar for another coach but who knows.  

Didn't see that. Johnson will command the the biggest paycheck in this coach cycle I believe. They still could work out a deal but it does add to the negatives of them signing Johnson.

[ChileBear]

9 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Didn't see that. Johnson will command the the biggest paycheck in this coach cycle I believe. They still could work out a deal but it does add to the negatives of them signing Johnson.

Well, Johnson is now free to interview as the Lions are bounced out by Daniels & Co. We could make a decision soon.

[Stinger226]

5 minutes ago, ChileBear said:

Well, Johnson is now free to interview as the Lions are bounced out by Daniels & Co. We could make a decision soon.

That will speed the process. Does this game make Kingsbury a better option?

[AZ54]

24 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

That will speed the process. Does this game make Kingsbury a better option?

Absolutely not.  Detroit was 2 turnover plays away from putting up 45.   However I really hated the Willams pass play call.  Should take a million or two off his salary for a boneheaded play call at a critical junction in the game. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

16 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Absolutely not.  Detroit was 2 turnover plays away from putting up 45.   However I really hated the Willams pass play call.  Should take a million or two off his salary for a boneheaded play call at a critical junction in the game. 

That play had Thomas Browns Keenan Allens WR pass play all over it.  I saw that one coming like deja vu.

[AZ54]

43 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

That play had Thomas Browns Keenan Allens WR pass play all over it.  I saw that one coming like deja vu.

Ah I had conveniently forgotten about that but yes both were bad calls that IMDO were poorly timed in the game.  At least Keenan is a smarter football player than Williams. Johnson already knows from his penalties and mouthing off all year that Williams makes dumb decisions.   I wanted Williams in the draft that year but after seeing him I'm glad we don't have to deal with his issues.  Not only that Detroit was moving the ball at will against them all game long except for their turnovers.  Unlike the Bears inept offense there was no need to be taking that risk.  

[BearFan PHX]

As far as Johnson is concerned, the Raiders have no QB, have no draft capital to get one, and play in a division and conference with much tougher competition, and more quality QBs.

The strategic move would be to stay in the NFC, and find a team with  good young QB.

[BearFan PHX]

Bears are scheduled to meet with Eddie George to interview for the head coach position tomorrow morning.

It's a bit of a surprising name, but he did just win coach of the year as head coach of Tennessee State.

But mostly, after he is interviewed, and having already spoken to Ron Rivera, the Rooney rule is now satisfied and the Bears could then announce a hiring decision as early as tomorrow afternoon.

With the Rooney Rule now satisfied, and Johnson available, if a decision doesn't come soon, then we can assume that the Bears don't know what they are doing, and really are interviewing so many candidates because they don't know what they're looking for, or have settled strongly on a coach still alive int he playoffs, like Buffalo's OC for example.

 

[Stinger226]

7 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Bears are scheduled to meet with Eddie George to interview for the head coach position tomorrow morning.

It's a bit of a surprising name, but he did just win coach of the year as head coach of Tennessee State.

But mostly, after he is interviewed, and having already spoken to Ron Rivera, the Rooney rule is now satisfied and the Bears could then announce a hiring decision as early as tomorrow afternoon.

With the Rooney Rule now satisfied, and Johnson available, if a decision doesn't come soon, then we can assume that the Bears don't know what they are doing, and really are interviewing so many candidates because they don't know what they're looking for, or have settled strongly on a coach still alive int he playoffs, like Buffalo's OC for example.

 

I get the impression they were spending time interviewing coaches for insight while they expected Johnson to not be available until after the SB. That has changed. They had George already scheduled, surprisingly, to speed up the Rooney rule. I heard reported they requested an interview with Tomlin and were denied. He would have cost a fortune, so it appears money will not get in the way.

As dumb as I thought it was to interview so many coaches, it may have been a great idea. You just talked to 15? people about your team and got great insights into what some smart people think about your QB and overall perception of the team. Will the bears know how to use that to help them? It's the bears so that leaves doubt.