Good Football

[BearFan PHX]

OK! So instead of rehashing what an awful situation we are in, and how much I want Vrabel lol I thought I'd start a thread about good football. Good coaching, smart plays.

So here's an awesome fake punt, and the backstory on how they got there is even better. THAT is coaching!
 

 

[adam]

I love the guy in motion on the punt. Even if you still punt it, that would take my attention away for a sec.

[Stinger226]

Maybe we should have a bad football thread to co exist also. Campbell makes some good decisions that look good and bad decisions that doesnt work out. In certain situations some things work and others would not be successful. A great play design could be blown up by a penalty but still would have been a good football play. Kramer blow up a perfect red zone play on a penalty and then when they did it again it worked out.

[adam]

35 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Maybe we should have a bad football thread to co exist also. Campbell makes some good decisions that look good and bad decisions that doesnt work out. In certain situations some things work and others would not be successful. A great play design could be blown up by a penalty but still would have been a good football play. Kramer blow up a perfect red zone play on a penalty and then when they did it again it worked out.

I love Campbell as a motivator, but I think he is average at best for in game management. I mean, if you are going to go for it on EVERY 4th Down, that's not really management. Like the onside kick, even if they got it somehow, that was still a dumb decision. I think the Lions will look vastly different when they have a different OC and DC next year. They will still be good because the roster is stacked, but I think they will be more of a 9 to 10 win team that is at the WC level compared to where they are now.

[Lucky Luciano]

GOOD FOOTBALL?? maybe, maybe not...

this is a MAJOR problem in today's NFL: the 12th man on the field, the referee's.

Over the last 15+ years professional football has nearly (if not truly) become an exhibition rather than a sport. maybe similar to all star wrestling where the outcome is preordained. especially since the NFL has locked in step with professional gambling. who is REALLY paying the refs salaries?

in my opinion only, the refs can and are shaving points and actual outcomes of who wins and who loses. this brings the outcomes to the vegas gambling syndicates determining the final outcomes of score and wins and losses. the NFL itself has done nothing, if not actually promote, this scenario in multiple ways.

1. a multi BILLION dollar corporation still will NOT hire permanent full time professional referee's who are accountable for their actions. this in itself is a very curious scenario. ask yourself why? who are the watchdogs over this very important aspect of the NFL. are they proclaiming to just be saving money? that sure doesn't wash with me. in the past ANY gambling aspects related to professional sports was not only frowned upon but actively attacked by the leagues whether they be baseball, football or any other major sport. now they are promoted in ads during the games.

2. the NFL actually promotes point shaving and referee misconduct. they have made the rules so ambiguous that nearly ANY call or non call is correct. this leaves the refs to regulate the flow of the game and the final scores and outcomes. to me it seems clear, early in the games whatever team that they may project to win receives multiple calls, non calls, at critical junctions in critical drives in their favor. these shadow calls non-calls could happen multiple times throughout the game on both sides but are not done so. usually this occurs when a game pivot point is happening. then to 'smooth' over these critical calls against one opponent they start flagging the other opponent when the game is usually in hand  by who they wish to be effected.

why you ask, would they do this? the simple answer is MONEY. it's TV rights/marketshare, advertising kickbacks, NFL product sales, fan attendance, superbowl market money and yes, kickbacks from the gambling circuits who pay for NFL advertising and logo rights and probably much, much more.

so ask yourself... is what you are watching real sports or just a money making projection?

[AZ54]

You mean the refs won't call holding on the Packers?  

[Lucky Luciano]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

You mean the refs won't call holding on the Packers?  

the packers are certainly one team that clearly gets preferred treatment from the refs game to game. it is so clearly obvious i don't know how these ref teams even keep their jobs. roughing the passer is a joke especially when it involved rogers or favre. i remember cuttler getting beat to a pulp after the ball was released with no flags at all. same with bears crucial holding penalties and DB's pass inter. any team playing the bears has the luxury of the 12th man on the field.

it also relates to other teams in the league like KC, used to be NE and others.

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

the packers are certainly one team that clearly gets preferred treatment from the refs game to game. it is so clearly obvious i don't know how these ref teams even keep their jobs. roughing the passer is a joke especially when it involved rogers or favre. i remember cuttler getting beat to a pulp after the ball was released with no flags at all. same with bears crucial holding penalties and DB's pass inter. any team playing the bears has the luxury of the 12th man on the field.

it also relates to other teams in the league like KC, used to be NE and others.

it's the unfair advantage that comes with winning. hopefully we enjoy it some day too!

[Lucky Luciano]

15 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

it's the unfair advantage that comes with winning. hopefully we enjoy it some day too!

the unfair advantage that comes with winning? if what i stated is true it is more than that. it is determining WHO is winning by a source other than actual play on the field.

[Stinger226]

There is no overall conspricy by refs to overturn games. Football is to random of a sport to try to even implement that. Now individually, it could happen but lately refs have been getting together to go over a call and making group decisions that would deter that. The 12th player on the field has been terrible this yr but it would so hard to try to blow one call that could change a game. If a ref consistantly makes backs calls, he gets less and less job time, so to affect a game, he would be out of the league in one yr. 

Im not sayng it isnt possible just not probable. Use tne Bears as an example, in the Hail Mary play there could have been a holding penalty called but rarely are those ever called in games. The Bears came back in that game so it would be hard to predict that play happening to change a game. Odds of us being in that position was slim so how would you pay a ref to change the game on that one play? Also the first Minny game, we scored 11 points in 52 seconds, who would predict that to happen  to get to a point to throw the game. We were already ahead of the point spread.

[Lucky Luciano]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

There is no overall conspricy by refs to overturn games. Football is to random of a sport to try to even implement that. Now individually, it could happen but lately refs have been getting together to go over a call and making group decisions that would deter that. The 12th player on the field has been terrible this yr but it would so hard to try to blow one call that could change a game. If a ref consistantly makes backs calls, he gets less and less job time, so to affect a game, he would be out of the league in one yr. 

Im not sayng it isnt possible just not probable. Use tne Bears as an example, in the Hail Mary play there could have been a holding penalty called but rarely are those ever called in games. The Bears came back in that game so it would be hard to predict that play happening to change a game. Odds of us being in that position was slim so how would you pay a ref to change the game on that one play? Also the first Minny game, we scored 11 points in 52 seconds, who would predict that to happen  to get to a point to throw the game. We were already ahead of the point spread.

dude, if you have refs that are tuned into calling penalties in a game it doesn't have to be one designated play at a designated time script. it's the concept of changing important drives/play outcomes and scores during the game (usually early in games) that influences the percentages in key situations that give a team the advantage overall. that is how gambling works, on percentages.

if refs take away sure points from a team they want to by calling penalties it effects the ENTIRE game. such as... if they call a red zone penalty and change it from the possibility of a TD into a FG that is a HUGE influx of who wins and who loses and how the rest of the game is choreographed by the coordinators. if one team gets behind by multiple scores or misses scoring because of penalties don't you think that effects the type of play calling used by the team that is down? it creates an offset percentage of high risk vs. high percentage attacking defense or offensive calls.

this is a FACT.. penalties stall drives and force punts or FG rather than TD's more times than not. there is no debate that this is true.

as a whole, the refs in one unit could be working together to effect outcome or even if it was just one ref in the unit it could be done the same way as i stated. the rules are so ambiguous that the other refs can't challenge a call that is correct/bad either way or a NON call such as a PI or holding call. it is scripted by the NFL rule book GIVING the refs the power to call a game any way they want to without being wrong.

in any case explain why it is so bad. what is your take on why there is such diversity game to game, team to team.

if bad or non calls are plainly obvious to fans shouldn't the people being paid to do this job know it too? shouldn't the freaking LEAGUE, the freaking NFL know this too? do you really think they are that stupid? to do nothing when it is clearly obvious to anybody with even half a brain that they know nothing is ludicrous.

when was the last time any refs were reprimanded or fired by the NFL? does the NFL investigate any of these refs in question? inquiring minds want to know.

EDIT: "There is no overall conspricy by refs to overturn games." and you know this is a fact? clue me in. where are are your sources to state that?

[jason]

On 12/20/2024 at 4:50 AM, Stinger226 said:

Maybe we should have a bad football thread to co exist also. Campbell makes some good decisions that look good and bad decisions that doesnt work out. In certain situations some things work and others would not be successful. A great play design could be blown up by a penalty but still would have been a good football play. Kramer blow up a perfect red zone play on a penalty and then when they did it again it worked out.

That thread will be far too long on this board. We have decades of plays to choose bad football.

[BearFan PHX]

Here is a great video about how Ben Johnson uses plays to set up other plays. How he leverages a strong offensive line into wide open middle passing routes.

I just want to say i LOVE Ben Johnson as an OC. I wont belabor the point that I am unsure of him as a head coach here, but he is a really great OC. Maybe he will be a great head coach too. I just dont have any evidence either way which is why I'm on the fence.

But this thread is about good football, and this certainly qualifies. You have to follow the link to youtube to see it, but its worth it if you havent yet. It's what every offensive coordinator SHOULD be doing - using plays and formations to scout tendencies and then using what you learn to set up your opponent for failure later in the game.

As you watch this, you may wonder why we never seem to be doing anything like this. Also, it's interesting to note that Ben Johnson's mentor was John Shoop.