Vrabel? Really?

[Lucky Luciano]

ok, these stats could be adjusted. i just didn't want to spend forever doing this. that said, give me johnson any day of the week from what is listed here. we have had a Vrabel in chicago about every 6-8 years. deja'vu all over again. If I am wrong show me.

STATS FOR VRABEL:

Vrabel Stats HC
Titans AFC South - 2018-2023 - 5 years
Record:
Reg Season - 54-45
Post Season - 2-3
Total: 56-48

2017 - Playoffs under HC Mike Mularkey. Titans defeated in 2nd wild card game.

2018 - 9-7 - Their most yards of total offense in 2018, with 4,998 yards.
HC Vrabel - Inherited a playoff team
OC Matt LaFleur - Jan 2019 after 2018 season was hired by Packers as HC - One year tenure with Vrabel.
QB - Quarterback Marcus Mariota had a difficult season, going 7-6 as a starter, throwing 11 touchdowns to eight interceptions, and missing three games due to injury. Backup quarterback Blaine Gabbert started three games, including the season finale against the Colts in which the Titans were eliminated from the playoffs.

RB - Running back Derrick Henry, who rushed for 1,059 yards and 12 touchdowns. This would be the first of Henry's three-straight 1,000-yard seasons.

Rank Offense

2019 - 9-7 - 6th Seed - Wild Card to AFC Championship Game - Lost to KC
OC - Arthur Smith
QB - 2–4 start resulting in the benching of quarterback Marcus Mariota, the Titans turned their season around with ex-Dolphins quarterback Ryan Tannehill in game 7.

2020 - 11-5 - Division Title (tied record with Colts) - Beaten in first round of playoffs by Ravens 20-13
OC - Arthur Smith
DC - Mike Vrabel decided not to hire a defensive coordinator for the season.
QB - Tannehill - 24 sacks - 3,819 yds. 65.5 Pct. Team ranked 23rd in passing yards.

30th in passing attempts.
RB - Derrick Henry rushed for 2,027 yards.

2021 - 12-5 - Won division (Colts 9-8, Texans 4-13, Jaguars 3-14) They fell to the Cincinnati Bengals, 19 to 16, in the 2021 AFC divisional game.
OC - Todd Downing - former tight ends coach
On January 15, 2021, Titans offensive coordinator Arthur Smith was hired by the Atlanta Falcons to be their head coach after Smith helped the Titans reach franchise-high offensive production in 2020
DC - Shane Bowen
QB - Tannehill - 3,734 yds - Pct: 67.2
RB - Henry 937 yds.

NET Ranks:
Passing Yds - 30th; Pass ATT - 30th; Pass AVG - 18th; SCK - 18th; SCKY - 16th; Pen 1

DWN - 20th; PEN - 8th; PEN YDS - 9th

2022 - 7 - 10 - 2nd in AFC South, 11th in the AFC. No Playoff spot.
OC - Todd Downing - Fired Jan 2023; On January 9, 2023, the Titans fired offensive coordinator Todd Downing, offensive line coach Keith Carter, secondary coach Anthony Midget, and offensive skill assistant Erik Frazier.[3] Under Downing in 2022, the Titans' offense was 30th in the league in yards and 28th in points-per-game.
QB - Tannehill - 2,536 Yds. - 12 Games Played
DC - Shane Bowen
RB - Henry - 1,538 yds

Net Rank: PTS - 26th; YDS - 29th; PLY - 30th; AVG - 23rd; Rush Yds - 3rd; Passing Yds - 32nd; Pass Att - 32nd; Pass Avg - 19th; Sck - 25th

2023 - 6-11 - Bottom of AFC South - No Playoff Spot
OC - Tim Kelly - Passing game coordinator Tim Kelly was promoted to offensive coordinator,
DC - Shane Bowen
QB - Tannehill - 1,616 yds; Started 8 Games Played in 10 games.
RB - Henry 1,167 rushing yards

Lg Rank Offense    PF - 27th;    Yds - 28th; Passing Yds - 29th; Passing Att - 30th

2024 FIRED

 

[BearFan PHX]

Vrabel got fired because his GM picked bad QBs, and got fired. Your stats show that.

Also Vrabel will not be the OC. He will be the HC.

You can argue that you like Johnson better, but you cant really say that Vrabel is a bad head coach, it's just not true.

[Lucky Luciano]

45 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Vrabel got fired because his GM picked bad QBs, and got fired. Your stats show that.

Also Vrabel will not be the OC. He will be the HC.

You can argue that you like Johnson better, but you cant really say that Vrabel is a bad head coach, it's just not true.

i CAN argue that his choices for OC are many and varied in quality. the best one LEFT after one year. he went through 2 or 3 others in his five years there. not only that but look at the stats for nearly every category on offense. to me i doesn't look like it's getting any better. his choices for OC are just hired up through the same staff. sound familiar? if it wasn't for henry his RB going insane in rushing yards (although they declined also every year) a passing game surely wouldn't have been even close to stellar. look at where they finished in the league in passing stats. so much for bringing in the best OC's. he inherited a playoff team his first year!!

so 4 OC's to groom a  primo draft pick in williams to become a probowl player is nothing to you?? that's not stability, that's insanity. we do that every time we get a qb with supposed potential.

also find the stats for the titans defense in those years. i didn't go that far because i really don't care. why don't you?

his last 2 years there were dismal and that is why he got fired. now we think we can do it better with him? nearly all his time there his offensive passing game was in the dumpster.

as i said before, the ABSOLUTE goal is to groom our generational qb to play for us for 10-15 YEARS. not walk backwards into a couple of wildcard playoff games and mess up (if we haven't already) williams with a steady turnstyle of second quality offensive coaches.

 

[BearFan PHX]

21 minutes ago, Lucky Luciano said:

as i said before, the ABSOLUTE goal is to groom our generational qb to play for us for 10-15 YEARS. not walk backwards into a couple of wildcard playoff games and mess up (if we haven't already) williams with a steady turnstyle of second quality offensive coaches.

 

I agree. If I thought that would be Vrabel's production here i wouldn't be supporting him.

But we disagree on what Vrabel would do with this team. And that's OK. I still want Vrabel over a first time HC who is an Xs and Os guy but lacks that spark of leadership.

We should have grabbed Harbaugh. If Warren didnt get along with him, we could have easily replaced Warren instead.

[Lucky Luciano]

8 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

We should have grabbed Harbaugh. If Warren didnt get along with him, we could have easily replaced Warren instead.

as much as i dislike hard head i agree with you. we should have been knocking his door down to hire him. same ole same ole.

 

[adam]

I would rather go for the Home Run and fail than settle for the single and fail. Johnson or Brady for me is Tier 1. Vrabel would be Tier 2. I would not be happy, but he would be an upgrade over Flus, Fox, and Trestman. If he got the right OC, the team could be solid. However, this HC has to be about Caleb. 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

as much as i dislike hard head i agree with you. we should have been knocking his door down to hire him. same ole same ole.

 

I get it - Harbaugh is a pain in the ass, but he is a hard ass that demands accountability too. I can understand passing on him specifically, but I'd like to get someone similar.

[BearFan PHX]

32 minutes ago, adam said:

I would rather go for the Home Run and fail than settle for the single and fail. Johnson or Brady for me is Tier 1. Vrabel would be Tier 2. I would not be happy, but he would be an upgrade over Flus, Fox, and Trestman. If he got the right OC, the team could be solid. However, this HC has to be about Caleb. 

It seems to me to be a choice between

1) a guy who has great offensive schemes but is an unknown as a head coach

and

2) a guy who is a strong head coach, but is an unknown as far as who the OC would be.

Either way there is some unknown involved.

I also agree that building Caleb is the #1 priority, but I'm not sure that's just about being super creative with offensive wrinkles. To me it'll be more about protecting him, demanding full effort from WRs, establishing a run game, creating a winning culture for the team, and building Caleb as a man and player to some extent.

I think to think of Vrabel like Eberflus (when we hired him) - just a defensive guy who hopefully will build a culture is selling Vrabel short. I think he knows a lot about offense, and specifically about blocking technique, how to run polished routes, how to establish run blocking rules etc. I think he knows football from the field, rather than the sideline, and can get the best performances out of players by demanding accountability and by teaching physical technique.

I've seen plenty of film on Vrabel working with offensive players on the practice field, and he fully understands each position down to the small body cues and leverages.

[Stinger226]

Vrabel has something Johnson does not, HC exerience. You can project all you want but we do not know how our new coach will fare . I like the fact Vrabel doesnt have to go thru a learning on the job scenario. Being a HC that was success and failure , he will learn from his mistakes. Johnson has to do that in real time. If we bring Johnson in here he will have to tutor Caleb run an offense and be a HC, that is a lot on his plate his first year. Vrabel will not be tutoring Caleb, running the offense. Who he brings in to do that will be important but I trust his NFL experience to know what to do. 

Another thing to consider is will they want to come here? There will be other jobs available that will probably offer more money. Our advantage is Caleb but examples like Geon Smith and Sam Darold that other QBs that can give you success are out there to. Mayfield bounced around and now is successful in TB. Other bad teams will have a chance to draft a QB also. will the new coach want to groom their own prospect that they will not get here? 

I'll be happy with any of the 3 but think the first year Vrabel or Gruden would be off the bus running, Johnson will not. 

[Lucky Luciano]

11 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Vrabel has something Johnson does not, HC exerience. You can project all you want but we do not know how our new coach will fare . I like the fact Vrabel doesnt have to go thru a learning on the job scenario. Being a HC that was success and failure , he will learn from his mistakes. Johnson has to do that in real time. If we bring Johnson in here he will have to tutor Caleb run an offense and be a HC, that is a lot on his plate his first year. Vrabel will not be tutoring Caleb, running the offense. Who he brings in to do that will be important but I trust his NFL experience to know what to do.

have you even read his stats i posted? show me where he is all that and a bag of chips. he inherited a playoff team. had a RB that basically carried the offensive load on his back. the offenses stats went down consistently for years in all aspects especially the passing game. his choices at decent OC's lasted a year there or not much more. he hired up through his coaching staff to fill the vacancy of OC. he freaking got FIRED after 2 years of dismal performance. so one year a push with him getting a playoff team to start and 50/50 in his following years ending in FAILURE.

so just where is the consistency at offensive coordinator that a rookie/first year QB needs to be groomed/indoctrinated into becoming all that he can be in his future? how many OC's will williams go through? in chicago, just enough to fail.

why does that seem like the perfect fit for the bears? because that is our MO. we are the smartest guy in the room and just KNOW we can do it better than everyone else (at least until we fail again and start the process all over).