Draft prospects

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

My point was we draft another #1 type WR or another #1 TE, it takes away from people we have in place to thrive, better spent on other positions that doesn't have as good of talent. More about value of the pick than to much competition.

I dont see McMillan as a WR1 type. Hes not quite fast enough. but he's 6' 5" and runs between 4.46 and 4.55 - hes a possession receiver, a slot guy. Like Keenan but not the same exact style. hes like a WR/TE - great red zone target, great working across the middle. But not a deep threat.

Like a faster TE split out. Like a Power Forward in basketball.

He would help get Odunze and Moore open. Put him underneath in a high/low and SOMEONE is open.

Johnson could use him as a chess piece for sure. And he could have a role similar to Laporta's.

Kmet would still be inline to block, or release, and the nickel would have to fight McMillan's huge body. Too fast for a LB, and too big for a nickel or safety, and that would mean Kmet would have an even better matchup too.

11 personnel with Moore, Odunze, McMillan, Kmet and whoever the back is would cause a ton of problems for defenses.

And we really do need a real 3rd WR.

And again, I am just describing how McMillan could really help us, not arguing that he is a better choice than a DT, or an OT etc. But he would be a good choice for sure. If hes even still there at 10.

[BearFan PHX]

You know, here's the thing. Poles has done such a good job filling holes on our roster, that its not really clear WHO we might take. We can use help in a lot of areas, and we dont NEED help much anywhere from a rookie starter.

OL - we could use a stud LT, and developmental players inside. The only one we cant use is a RT.

WR - we could definitely use another good one

TE - Kmet is OK, but I dont think anyone is scared of him. A real stud here could push him out after this year.

HB - Same thing. We dont have a true stud here.

QB - we are set.

so on offense, the only thing we truly dont need to draft is QB or RT

DL - you can always use more. We dont have a game wrecking top 5 Edge rusher, or DT. Grady is older. We can always use top talent here.

LB - if you draft a young fast guy that Allen likes, you can save a TON of cap room letting Edmunds go after this year. Maybe Edmunds will make himself indispensable this year, but we could use a young LB stud going forward.

S - Byard is getting older and Brisker has concussion problems. There are two excellent hard hitting SS in this draft. Either could help us.

CB - Stevenson will probably be OK, but you can never have too many.

Basically, we dont have many glaring holes where a rookie NEEDS to come in and start, but we could use a stud rookie at almost any position. We are in a place to truly look best player available, regardless of positional need.

And with a new coach, honestly NO ONE knows what we will do. Other teams cant really predict us this year, and so I think us trying to do that is foolish too.

Now it's totally cool to say who you think we OUGHT to draft - which players are best and could help us - but making the case that we need (or dont need) a certain position is really hard to say.

*IF* you believe one of the LTs is a true stud, I think that would be the clearest positional need. But Im not sold that any are, so its impossible to say based on positional need what we might do - it's more a matter of player evaluation. We can all have our opinions, but I dont think you can say _______ is good, but we dont need an _________, unless its a QB or a RT. Every other position is a possibility IF you think the player is that good.

For example, we might take a Safety at 10. People would be shocked, say it was a little too early etc, and Im not predicting it, but its a possibility like so many others. And if you think they are the best impact player on the board, and youd be happy with them at #14 or something, you can take em if you cant trade down.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I dont see McMillan as a WR1 type. Hes not quite fast enough. but he's 6' 5" and runs between 4.46 and 4.55 - hes a possession receiver, a slot guy. Like Keenan but not the same exact style. hes like a WR/TE - great red zone target, great working across the middle. But not a deep threat.

Like a faster TE split out. Like a Power Forward in basketball.

He would help get Odunze and Moore open. Put him underneath in a high/low and SOMEONE is open.

Johnson could use him as a chess piece for sure. And he could have a role similar to Laporta's.

Kmet would still be inline to block, or release, and the nickel would have to fight McMillan's huge body. Too fast for a LB, and too big for a nickel or safety, and that would mean Kmet would have an even better matchup too.

11 personnel with Moore, Odunze, McMillan, Kmet and whoever the back is would cause a ton of problems for defenses.

And we really do need a real 3rd WR.

And again, I am just describing how McMillan could really help us, not arguing that he is a better choice than a DT, or an OT etc. But he would be a good choice for sure. If hes even still there at 10.

I don't disagree of his talent. Depending on how you view Travis Hunter, McMillan is the top WR in the draft, that's speaks a #1 to me. If this drafts WR class isn't rated very good then that would make me wrong. 

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

You know, here's the thing. Poles has done such a good job filling holes on our roster, that its not really clear WHO we might take. We can use help in a lot of areas, and we dont NEED help much anywhere from a rookie starter.

OL - we could use a stud LT, and developmental players inside. The only one we cant use is a RT.

WR - we could definitely use another good one

TE - Kmet is OK, but I dont think anyone is scared of him. A real stud here could push him out after this year.

HB - Same thing. We dont have a true stud here.

QB - we are set.

so on offense, the only thing we truly dont need to draft is QB or RT

DL - you can always use more. We dont have a game wrecking top 5 Edge rusher, or DT. Grady is older. We can always use top talent here.

LB - if you draft a young fast guy that Allen likes, you can save a TON of cap room letting Edmunds go after this year. Maybe Edmunds will make himself indispensable this year, but we could use a young LB stud going forward.

S - Byard is getting older and Brisker has concussion problems. There are two excellent hard hitting SS in this draft. Either could help us.

CB - Stevenson will probably be OK, but you can never have too many.

Basically, we dont have many glaring holes where a rookie NEEDS to come in and start, but we could use a stud rookie at almost any position. We are in a place to truly look best player available, regardless of positional need.

And with a new coach, honestly NO ONE knows what we will do. Other teams cant really predict us this year, and so I think us trying to do that is foolish too.

Now it's totally cool to say who you think we OUGHT to draft - which players are best and could help us - but making the case that we need (or dont need) a certain position is really hard to say.

*IF* you believe one of the LTs is a true stud, I think that would be the clearest positional need. But Im not sold that any are, so its impossible to say based on positional need what we might do - it's more a matter of player evaluation. We can all have our opinions, but I dont think you can say _______ is good, but we dont need an _________, unless its a QB or a RT. Every other position is a possibility IF you think the player is that good.

For example, we might take a Safety at 10. People would be shocked, say it was a little too early etc, and Im not predicting it, but its a possibility like so many others. And if you think they are the best impact player on the board, and you be happy with them at #14 or something, you can take em if you cant trade down.

I think you're pretty spot on with the roster evaluation but what does Johnson place more value on for players we need to upgrade. We can probably upgrade with the first 3 or 4 picks and after that develop type players. The draft will tell the story. We're all guessing at this point.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I agree - Bears now need blue chip impact players. That is an area Poles has struggled to find and we need to see that change. 

[AZ54]

7 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I dont see McMillan as a WR1 type. Hes not quite fast enough. but he's 6' 5" and runs between 4.46 and 4.55 - hes a possession receiver, a slot guy. Like Keenan but not the same exact style. hes like a WR/TE - great red zone target, great working across the middle. But not a deep threat.

Like a faster TE split out. Like a Power Forward in basketball.

He would help get Odunze and Moore open. Put him underneath in a high/low and SOMEONE is open.

Johnson could use him as a chess piece for sure. And he could have a role similar to Laporta's.

Kmet would still be inline to block, or release, and the nickel would have to fight McMillan's huge body. Too fast for a LB, and too big for a nickel or safety, and that would mean Kmet would have an even better matchup too.

11 personnel with Moore, Odunze, McMillan, Kmet and whoever the back is would cause a ton of problems for defenses.

And we really do need a real 3rd WR.

And again, I am just describing how McMillan could really help us, not arguing that he is a better choice than a DT, or an OT etc. But he would be a good choice for sure. If hes even still there at 10.

Tet reminds me of Mike Evans (?) of Tampa Bay.   DJ and Rome can work the sidelines just fine albeit in different ways.   Give me the Jack rabbit WR in the middle for a defense to chase down.  

[AZ54]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I don't disagree of his talent. Depending on how you view Travis Hunter, McMillan is the top WR in the draft, that's speaks a #1 to me. If this drafts WR class isn't rated very good then that would make me wrong. 

I’ve seen it a few times.   The top 10 in this draft don’t compare to the top 10 last year.  Yet might be the best WR this year last year he might have been the 4th best.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Tet reminds me of Mike Evans (?) of Tampa Bay.   DJ and Rome can work the sidelines just fine albeit in different ways.   Give me the Jack rabbit WR in the middle for a defense to chase down.  

Trade down and Emika Egbuka or Luther Burden would make a dynamic playmaker out of the slot. I would rather take TE Warren than Tet to be honest. 

[Stinger226]

With the effort their making in free agency at WR, I don't see a high pick in the draft going to WR. Warren would be a more versatile weapon if they don't go trenches,

[AZ54]

47 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

With the effort their making in free agency at WR, I don't see a high pick in the draft going to WR. Warren would be a more versatile weapon if they don't go trenches,

WRs are well known for taking a season or two to come up to speed.  I can where they don’t want to rely on a rookie for significant snaps.  

[BearFan PHX]

9 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I don't disagree of his talent. Depending on how you view Travis Hunter, McMillan is the top WR in the draft, that's speaks a #1 to me. If this drafts WR class isn't rated very good then that would make me wrong. 

I'm just saying, he's not a deep threat. Usually when people talk about a WR1, they are talking about someone that plays the X position?

McMillan is a really good possession receiver, and he could really help us.

So I dont think the question is whether he would be good to add to the team or not, that's a no brainer easy YES. The question is whether there is another player who could help more.

And Im also saying, let's not make that choice based on positional need, but solely on the ability of the available players.

Best player available other than QB or RT.

[Stinger226]

8 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I'm just saying, he's not a deep threat. Usually when people talk about a WR1, they are talking about someone that plays the X position?

McMillan is a really good possession receiver, and he could really help us.

So I dont think the question is whether he would be good to add to the team or not, that's a no brainer easy YES. The question is whether there is another player who could help more.

And Im also saying, let's not make that choice based on positional need, but solely on the ability of the available players.

Best player available other than QB or RT.

I agree with all of that which also means we won't be drafting a WR at 10.

[BearFan PHX]

17 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I agree with all of that which also means we won't be drafting a WR at 10.

honestly, we could draft ANY position at 10 and I wouldnt be shocked (other than QB) we really are in a BPA position.

And McMIllan is widely mocked to likely go before we pick anyway.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

55 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

honestly, we could draft ANY position at 10 and I wouldnt be shocked (other than QB) we really are in a BPA position.

And McMIllan is widely mocked to likely go before we pick anyway.

After his combine I think he jumped into top 10. Good thing since this isn’t a position of need. Best thing would be if a wr, db and 2 qbs go before us. Better yet if someone likes Dart a lot and wants to move up to get him (honestly if a team like Giants passed on qb but offered a 2nd and future 1st I might just take it if I were Poles). 

[BearFan PHX]

26 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

After his combine I think he jumped into top 10. Good thing since this isn’t a position of need. Best thing would be if a wr, db and 2 qbs go before us. Better yet if someone likes Dart a lot and wants to move up to get him (honestly if a team like Giants passed on qb but offered a 2nd and future 1st I might just take it if I were Poles). 

Other than LT, of which this draft really has no sure fire studs, we don't really have any position of "need" - of course a stud Edge is always great to have, but we could use a superior player at pretty much any position other than QB, and we have a decent starter at every position.

Looking down the road, we might also want (in addition to LT, in no particular order) OG, TE, HB, WR, Edge, DT, LB, S and CB. A case can be made for each.

So really, I think after our amazing preseason so far, we are looking at Best Player Available now, and if that's a S, TE, WR or HB, so be it. If it's a DL so much the better. But HB Jeanty, WR McMillan, S Emmanwori, TE Loveland and CB Johnson would all make us better too. And quality developing depth at OG, DT and LB now will help us in a couple years to find cap room to keep growing.

I dont think looking only at position and in comparison to this years roster is the way to think about this anymore. We're good right now. Holes are filled. Sure we could use a pro bowl LT or Edge, but if they arent available to us, It's time to get into a sustainable mode where we look at the roster 2 and 3 years out so we can take BPA every year going forward.

I wish there was a stud LT I trusted. But there isnt, so BPA it is for me. At Edge or whatever position.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

honestly, we could draft ANY position at 10 and I wouldnt be shocked (other than QB) we really are in a BPA position.

And McMIllan is widely mocked to likely go before we pick anyway.

I'm a gambler, I would bet money no WR. No one knows what Poles will do, but risk factor for me is very small I lose money.

[Stinger226]

46 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Other than LT, of which this draft really has no sure fire studs, we don't really have any position of "need" - of course a stud Edge is always great to have, but we could use a superior player at pretty much any position other than QB, and we have a decent starter at every position.

Looking down the road, we might also want (in addition to LT, in no particular order) OG, TE, HB, WR, Edge, DT, LB, S and CB. A case can be made for each.

So really, I think after our amazing preseason so far, we are looking at Best Player Available now, and if that's a S, TE, WR or HB, so be it. If it's a DL so much the better. But HB Jeanty, WR McMillan, S Emmanwori, TE Loveland and CB Johnson would all make us better too. And quality developing depth at OG, DT and LB now will help us in a couple years to find cap room to keep growing.

I dont think looking only at position and in comparison to this years roster is the way to think about this anymore. We're good right now. Holes are filled. Sure we could use a pro bowl LT or Edge, but if they arent available to us, It's time to get into a sustainable mode where we look at the roster 2 and 3 years out so we can take BPA every year going forward.

I wish there was a stud LT I trusted. But there isnt, so BPA it is for me. At Edge or whatever position.

There is a handful of sure top 10 by most pundits. After that every team has a different board. 

I still think trenches is the priority moves early. Campbell is a top 10 pick and if available a strong possibility but I think he's gone by 10. Edge and DT fall in line next. After Carter Pierce seems to be the next choice of which is possible. DT has several potential top 10 choices Graham, Nolen, Grant are our most likely picks for us. 

Thuney is still a one year deal. Jackson has some injuries to have risks. Jarrett is older. I think we double down somewhere there. Since LTs are limited I think the BPA will be a DL guy. It's fun to think RB, TE and WR but I don't think we do.