Caleb Wants Ben Johnson...

[Mongo3451]

Caleb was on the St Brown Brothers podcast.  He said he wants a leader of men, offensive guru and someone that matches his aggressive nature.  Near the end he all but said he wanted Ben.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I believe those attributes also reflect Mike McCarthy, who by the way was the guy who coached & developed the player Caleb looks up to (Rodgers).  I do think the offensive guru part gets at - he would be less excited / enthused with them hiring Ben Flores (or Vrabel - albeit Vrabel would check a few of those boxes). I think Caleb will be pretty happy with Foster or McCarthy and I'm at the point where I would be to.  On paper both would be excellent hires - different risk/rewards to both - but at the very least it would be the franchise aiming hight and hitting high in terms of hiring one of the more high profile candidates in the cycle (which is not something they have done since Wanny and maybe to a slightly lesser extent Fox).  

Not saying those worked out brilliantly - but I don't think they were the dumpster fires others were and I still think Fox gets underappreciated for how he turned the professionalism of the culture and positioned things for Nagy to come in and overachieve early in his coaching tenure with the Bears.  Fox inherited such a mess.  

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I believe those attributes also reflect Mike McCarthy, who by the way was the guy who coached & developed the player Caleb looks up to (Rodgers).  I do think the offensive guru part gets at - he would be less excited / enthused with them hiring Ben Flores (or Vrabel - albeit Vrabel would check a few of those boxes). I think Caleb will be pretty happy with Foster or McCarthy and I'm at the point where I would be to.  On paper both would be excellent hires - different risk/rewards to both - but at the very least it would be the franchise aiming hight and hitting high in terms of hiring one of the more high profile candidates in the cycle (which is not something they have done since Wanny and maybe to a slightly lesser extent Fox).  

Not saying those worked out brilliantly - but I don't think they were the dumpster fires others were and I still think Fox gets underappreciated for how he turned the professionalism of the culture and positioned things for Nagy to come in and overachieve early in his coaching tenure with the Bears.  Fox inherited such a mess.  

I always felt that way, but couldn't find a way to articulate it as well as you did.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

4 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Fox inherited such a mess.  

1000% agree. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Did you happen to hear about the prank text Caleb got?  Some young kids got his phone number some how and sent him a text saying this is Ben Johnson. Just want you to know I look forward to coaching you.  Caleb responded with a heck yeah, go bears.  They then face timed him laughing  their asses.off saying go Raiders or dolphins. 

It sounds like these kids got him or he's a good sport 

[Mongo3451]

Just watched Aaron Rodgers on the Pat McAfee show.  He talked glowingly about Mike McCarthy in several ways.  Leadership, development, accountability, innovation and collaboration...

[adam]

11 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Just watched Aaron Rodgers on the Pat McAfee show.  He talked glowingly about Mike McCarthy in several ways.  Leadership, development, accountability, innovation and collaboration...

I feel like McCarthy is the equivalent of an offensive Tomlin, who has a high floor. Then if the GM can get some superstars on the roster, that is what makes the difference.

I like the core of Caleb + Rome + DJ + Kmet. I think they need an upgrade at RB to be an elite skill position group. The Oline needs a complete overhaul. 

 

One interesting thing I haven't see talked about, who is going to be the DC? Would someone like Rivera come in as a DC with someone like Johnson as the HC?

[Stinger226]

Do I have a bad taste in my mouth about McCarthy because he was a Packer coach? I think he will be a winning coach but questioning him getting us to a SB.  I think he is the only candidate that has actually won a SB. Maybe I need to be more open to him 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

6 hours ago, adam said:

I feel like McCarthy is the equivalent of an offensive Tomlin, who has a high floor. Then if the GM can get some superstars on the roster, that is what makes the difference.

I like the core of Caleb + Rome + DJ + Kmet. I think they need an upgrade at RB to be an elite skill position group. The Oline needs a complete overhaul. 

 

One interesting thing I haven't see talked about, who is going to be the DC? Would someone like Rivera come in as a DC with someone like Johnson as the HC?

I think McCarthy will be able to pull a high profile DC. He did it with Dan Quinn for a while, had Mike Zimmer more recently...and even in his Green Bay days I think he had some high profile DC's (Don Capers I think for a while).  So he has never been shy to bring in former HC's on the defensive side and other places. Going back to - he is very comfortable in his own skin and understands having talent around him is a good thing. He also doesn't just use super experienced guys as he has employed good up and coming minds too.  

[BearFan PHX]

10 hours ago, adam said:

I feel like McCarthy is the equivalent of an offensive Tomlin, who has a high floor. Then if the GM can get some superstars on the roster, that is what makes the difference.

I think this is exactly it.

[Stinger226]

I can't believe I'm starting to get on the McCarthy bandwagon. One thing for sure, he will put great value in trying to beat GB. If you look at his record, very little losing.

[Lucky Luciano]

17 hours ago, adam said:

One interesting thing I haven't see talked about, who is going to be the DC? Would someone like Rivera come in as a DC with someone like Johnson as the HC?

that's the dream team for me.  johnson/rivera.

if we are going for the experienced coach i have to take carroll. he is my second choice. 3 years to develop caleb and an OC to groom as the next HC. he should have his choice on who comes in to that position if they know he is in line for a team that is up and running. consistency across the board. people like and trust him.

or... do we get another retread/experiment in mccarthy? if anyone here has scratched their heads with bizarre calls on 4th down get ready for some more with mccarthy.

 

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

if anyone here has scratched their heads with bizarre calls on 4th down get ready for some more with mccarthy.

this is my greatest concern with McCarthy too

[Stinger226]

13 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

that's the dream team for me.  johnson/rivera.

if we are going for the experienced coach i have to take carroll. he is my second choice. 3 years to develop caleb and an OC to groom as the next HC. he should have his choice on who comes in to that position if they know he is in line for a team that is up and running. consistency across the board. people like and trust him.

or... do we get another retread/experiment in mccarthy? if anyone here has scratched their heads with bizarre calls on 4th down get ready for some more with mccarthy.

 

McCarthy carries a better record than Carroll yet he's a retread and Carroll isn't? They both got let go on their respective teams. I totally didn't want McCarthy but the more you read about him the more you realize he checks a lot of boxes. We just need the right guy for culture, development and leadership. We all have opinions on who that is, hopefully the brass get it right this time. There is the possibility that several available coaches could be successful. I'm not sure who that is, I originally wanted Gruden, he's not even in the picture right now. 

Johnson, Carroll, McCarthy, Monken and Brady are all upgrades. I would accept any of those choices.

On a different subject, X has some talking about trading DJ Moore. That's a ridiculous thought, he's our best offensive player.

[Mongo3451]

20 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

On a different subject, X has some talking about trading DJ Moore. That's a ridiculous thought, he's our best offensive player.

Moore showed his ass before the trade deadline and I would have sent him packing then.  Regardless of how talented a player is, the tail doesn't wag the dog.  Same with Edmunds.  They both can go.

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Moore showed his ass before the trade deadline and I would have sent him packing then.  Regardless of how talented a player is, the tail doesn't wag the dog.  Same with Edmunds.  They both can go.

You could find tape on any player and show where you question his dedication. He had a couple moments this year but you have to look at his overall play. Clearly the best offensive player on the team. Also if we're trying to get a great offense, getting rid of your best player is a bad idea. He had a talk every week on the SCORE this year. Clearly don't have a attitude problem.

[Lucky Luciano]

10 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

McCarthy carries a better record than Carroll yet he's a retread and Carroll isn't? They both got let go on their respective teams. I totally didn't want McCarthy but the more you read about him the more you realize he checks a lot of boxes. We just need the right guy for culture, development and leadership. We all have opinions on who that is, hopefully the brass get it right this time. There is the possibility that several available coaches could be successful. I'm not sure who that is, I originally wanted Gruden, he's not even in the picture right now. 

Johnson, Carroll, McCarthy, Monken and Brady are all upgrades. I would accept any of those choices.

On a different subject, X has some talking about trading DJ Moore. That's a ridiculous thought, he's our best offensive player.

show me his success without HOF qb's. any championships? how many post season wins against the best? west coast offense? probably works ok with veteran HOF qb's running it but how many superbowls with all that talent?

even with HOF qb's his post season is dismal. HC with GB 13 years only TWO seasons with more than one and done or no wins at all and included in that the one SB win.  that is not what you want, or at least that is not what i want.

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

show me his success without HOF qb's. any championships? how many post season wins against the best? west coast offense? probably works ok with veteran HOF qb's running it but how many superbowls with all that talent?

even with HOF qb's his post season is dismal. HC with GB 13 years only TWO seasons with more than one and done or no wins at all and included in that the one SB win.  that is not what you want, or at least that is not what i want.

Show me Belichek record without Brady. Look threw history and you find all kind of examples. Carroll got fired after Wilson left. He had 14 seasons with 10 or more wins. That's good no matter who it is. I'm not trying to make a case for him but when you examine his history he is not as bad as I originally thought. Since neither of us get to choose the HC , the possibility exists it won't be who we want. I'm okay if it's Johnson, McCarthy or Carroll. All of them could have success here. 

[Lucky Luciano]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Show me Belichek record without Brady. Look threw history and you find all kind of examples. Carroll got fired after Wilson left.

i have stated numerous times that belly is way over rated. yea, look at the record before and after bledsoe and brady. it's easy to be a winning coach when you have excellent and HOF qb's not to mention it always helps when you CHEAT.

and is there any way POSSIBLE that you rate wilson or any other seattle qb he coached even CLOSE to favre and rogers? really?

[Stinger226]

4 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

i have stated numerous times that belly is way over rated. yea, look at the record before and after bledsoe and brady. it's easy to be a winning coach when you have excellent and HOF qb's not to mention it always helps when you CHEAT.

and is there any way POSSIBLE that you rate wilson or any other seattle qb he coached even CLOSE to favre and rogers? really?

Of course not with Wilson. I will say that Farve and Rodgers were talented but also were developed under McCarthy.

It's not my first or second choice for HC but if (and this is the same Bears organization) they did hire him, it wouldn't be as bad as I would perceive it. It's not the worst choice we could make. I originally said if they hired McCarthy, I would take a recess on my bears fandom but I now have changed that attitude.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

4 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

i have stated numerous times that belly is way over rated. yea, look at the record before and after bledsoe and brady. it's easy to be a winning coach when you have excellent and HOF qb's not to mention it always helps when you CHEAT.

and is there any way POSSIBLE that you rate wilson or any other seattle qb he coached even CLOSE to favre and rogers? really?

You have to look at the whole picture.  Every team will eventually die because it's set up that way with the CBA.  New teams can flourish if they have a coach, QB, and the right talent to do so...Xetroit and Houston to name a couple.  That is why there are windows like the Bears are in.  We just need the right coach that can get the most out of the talent and can out coach the opponent.  I am not sure which one would be best, but I was all for talking to Bellichik if Caleb is what they say he is, a coach who can only win w HOF talent.  Now we have Johnson, McCarthy, and Carroll. They all have a different aspects to bring to the team to possibly win with.  I have them listed in my order, but who am I...just a loyal fan.

[Stinger226]

Lions are going to lose today and Johnson becomes immediately available. The drama will end this week. As good of an offensive that Detroit has, they need a defense to get to a championship. Injuries may have doomed them but every team has injuries like us. 

Does this game make Kingsbury value go up? I think so. 

Former HC, QB development, had some success but faultered once Murray was hurt. Some may say that with a rookie QB, he has did a better job than Johnson.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

41 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Lions are going to lose today and Johnson becomes immediately available. The drama will end this week. As good of an offensive that Detroit has, they need a defense to get to a championship. Injuries may have doomed them but every team has injuries like us. 

Does this game make Kingsbury value go up? I think so. 

Former HC, QB development, had some success but faultered once Murray was hurt. Some may say that with a rookie QB, he has did a better job than Johnson.

Hate to say it, but Kingsbury wouldn't want the job.  The Bears used him for Caleb insight and he read the cards and was not pleased. 

[Lucky Luciano]

14 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Of course not with Wilson. I will say that Farve and Rodgers were talented but also were developed under McCarthy.

favre was not developed by mccarthy. it was holmgren. rogers first year was under sherman  and he was backing up favre for 3 years

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, Lucky Luciano said:

favre was not developed by mccarthy. it was holmgren. rogers first year was under sherman  and he was backing up favre for 3 years

I stand corrected, he  just developed Rodgers.